Lightweight "modern" steel cyclocross frame???

[Erik_A]

Does anyone have recommendations for a fairly lightweight "modern" steel cross frame, that comes stock with a 60cm top-tube? I have given up on looking for a carbon frame that fits, and since I am 220 lbs - it wouldn't matter much anyway!

[AngryScientist]

what is your price range? if sufficiently high, you're going to be a ton better off having a reputable builder build something tuned for your weight and riding style than something off the shelf.

i would think that indy fab, geekhouse, etc would have nice, lightweight offerings, but again, for the price you'll pay for a stock indy fab, you could likely get something custom made.

aside from the smaller botique guys, the market has favored heavily carbon and aluminum cx bikes, and there just isnt much out there in the way of lightweight, hi-tech steel cross bikes that i can think of.

gunnar is making some nice (stock) steeds, so is ritchey, but weights are hard to find...:

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/58932CrossHairsRajRed-1024x647.jpg

http://www.chrisgomezphoto.com/img/s3/v25/p341501413-3.jpg

[DRietz]

Maybe you could convince Rob English to build his first cross frame....

[weiwentg]

what is your price range? if sufficiently high, you're going to be a ton better off having a reputable builder build something tuned for your weight and riding style than something off the shelf.

i would think that indy fab, geekhouse, etc would have nice, lightweight offerings, but again, for the price you'll pay for a stock indy fab, you could likely get something custom made.

aside from the smaller botique guys, the market has favored heavily carbon and aluminum cx bikes, and there just isnt much out there in the way of lightweight, hi-tech steel cross bikes that i can think of.

gunnar is making some nice (stock) steeds, so is ritchey, but weights are hard to find...:
[/IMG]

Gunnar uses a good but not highest-end steel tubing. I'm going to guess 3.5 to 4lb for a 56cm frame. 1.5lb fork, but you could get a carbon fork if you want to drop .5 to .75lb. the question is, the OP rides a 60cm frame and is 220lb. you can get a lighter steel bike than Gunnar, but are you even going to notice the weight difference?

I joked on the Saturday that yes, my Vanilla was steel so it weighed 20-30lbs, but that wasn't slowing me down a lot. obviously the first bit was a joke, it's more like 18-19 built up. but that still hasn't slowed me down, really, and I ride a 50cm Gunnar and am under 120lbs. I think I would notice a difference from a Surly frameset, which is probably 1-2lbs heavier than a Gunnar frameset, but I've seen people kick butt on Crosschecks and Pacers before as well.

[Erik_A]

Interesting... I have loved my 63cm 1995 Bianchi Veloce road bike with Dedacciai Zero Uno tubing which rides great for my size - but is not exceptionally light. "Deddi Zero Uno - Heavier gauge set designed for exceptionally sturdy frames. Large selection of round tubes." - I guess, I want a well crafted steel frame that is lighter than a Surly Cross Check. Being almost 40 yrs old - I appreciate the "give" of steel over aluminum; but I could be wrong - especially for a race bike.

At your weight the last thing I'd want from a steel bike is low weight. You'll need something strong. If you want strong and light steel is probably your worst choice in frame material. Have you tried any modern aluminum frames? I have two scandium bikes that blow away my previous steel frames. They're much lighter and stiffer and have a smoother ride.
If you really want steel and have the bucks any custom builder could build you something "light" but I bet they try to steer you away from that idea.

[witcombusa]

Ritchey Swiss

[weiwentg]

I guess, I want a well crafted steel frame that is lighter than a Surly Cross Check.

then get a Gunnar.

btw, Gunnar says the Crosshairs handles more like a stage race road bike than a pure, CX racing bike. That's fine with me. I don't feel like I can/want to train enough to get on the podium in a Men's B or Cat 3/4 race, I don't feel like I need or even 'deserve' a purebred CX race bike, and I need a general purpose commuter, so the Crosshairs fits my needs. It'll probably fit your needs as well, but if you want something different, you need to consider that.

[christian]

I'd get a Gunnar. It might be slightly sturdily built, but any custom for a 220 lb rider would have mighty similar specs, I think.

[JohnHemlock]

I outweigh you by a couple biscuits and a few ladles of gravy but have been beating on one of these for a few months with no issues. . .

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/products/civilian/2012/vive_le_roi-zoom2.jpg

On sale for $1100, either in 59 or 61.

[jr59]

I outweigh you by a couple biscuits and a few ladles of gravy but have been beating on one of these for a few months with no issues. . .

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/products/civilian/2012/vive_le_roi-zoom2.jpg

On sale for $1100, either in 59 or 61.

That is on SWEET ride!

[Liv2RideHard]

^^^Seems like a viable option. I do believe he used to make them out of his garage. Recently sold his brand to some online retailers though. Probably being made in Asia now but...for that price it has me looking hard at them.

[ergott]

Two words.

Mike Zanconato.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Sports/The-bikes/i-sVGPkS4/0/XL/MY-BIKES01-XL.jpg

The guy is amazing and rather than guess at what stock will be right for you, he will nail it. He'll even put bottle cage mounts on it if you like.

[Peter P.]

[QUOTE=AngryScientist;1161841i would think that indy fab, geekhouse, etc would have nice, lightweight offerings, but again, for the price you'll pay for a stock indy fab, you could likely get something custom made. [/QUOTE]

I have to correct you on this: Independent Fabrications does not make stock frames; they're all custom.

The only reason I pick this nit is IF is a hard working small fish in a big pond. I'd hate to see them lose business. And they do make wonderful bikes.

I'll also add to the original poster's question and add my vote for a Gunnar Crosshairs. Ain't nothing second rate about the tubing or the quality of the frame.

[Ahneida Ride]

Two words.

Mike Zanconato.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Sports/The-bikes/i-sVGPkS4/0/XL/MY-BIKES01-XL.jpg

The guy is amazing and rather than guess at what stock will be right for you, he will nail it. He'll even put bottle cage mounts on it if you like.

Yea .... Mike is good. real good !

[AngryScientist]

I have to correct you on this: Independent Fabrications does not make stock frames; they're all custom.

The only reason I pick this nit is IF is a hard working small fish in a big pond. I'd hate to see them lose business. And they do make wonderful bikes.

I'll also add to the original poster's question and add my vote for a Gunnar Crosshairs. Ain't nothing second rate about the tubing or the quality of the frame.

Didn't know that Peter, thanks for the clarification.

[dbh]

Chris King builds a Cielo cross race specific frameset, and one that's a little more of the dirt road (with cantis) variety. Haven't ridden either, but they both look pretty badass.

http://cielo.chrisking.com/bikes/cross-racer/

[Erik_A]

Wow that Civilian Vive Le Roi looks great - the best option so far:

http://www.ridecvln.com/bike-types/cyclocross/
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/review-/Civilian-Vive-Le-Roi-Cyclocross-Bike.4375.html

Thanks for the heads up!

[Sheldon4209]

In addition to tandems, Co-Motion builds steel cyclocross. They use over-sized Reynolds 853 tubing that is specially selected or custom for an up charge. Co-Motion is known for their nice welds and beautiful paint.

http://www.co-motion.com/index.php/singles/demon

[djg]

DeSalvo? He offers "semi-custom" frames that are relatively inexpensive for a one man shop with a serious rep and lots of cross experience -- don't know if they fit your budget or not.

[oldpotatoe]

what is your price range? if sufficiently high, you're going to be a ton better off having a reputable builder build something tuned for your weight and riding style than something off the shelf.

i would think that indy fab, geekhouse, etc would have nice, lightweight offerings, but again, for the price you'll pay for a stock indy fab, you could likely get something custom made.

aside from the smaller botique guys, the market has favored heavily carbon and aluminum cx bikes, and there just isnt much out there in the way of lightweight, hi-tech steel cross bikes that i can think of.

gunnar is making some nice (stock) steeds, so is ritchey, but weights are hard to find...:

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/58932CrossHairsRajRed-1024x647.jpg

http://www.chrisgomezphoto.com/img/s3/v25/p341501413-3.jpg

Biggest Ritchey has a 58cm top tube.

I sell Gunnars, great frames, great value.

[Liv2RideHard]

Wow that Civilian Vive Le Roi looks great - the best option so far:

http://www.ridecvln.com/bike-types/cyclocross/
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/review-/Civilian-Vive-Le-Roi-Cyclocross-Bike.4375.html

Thanks for the heads up!

Yes seems like a great option for $1100 and free shipping for a complete bike. The 4130 will probably not be top shelf though so it will be a tad on the heavy side.

BB7's are awesome. Mix of SRAM. Frame is prepped with cable guides should you want to run a front derailleur. Rival shifter and crank can be had pretty inexpensively.

Tire clearance? Not sure how much bigger you could go, if you should want to run bigger tires. They do not call out what can be accommodated.

Wheels...would be my first upgrade. White Industries makes F/R disc hubs with the rear spaced for 130mm. Not sure I would look further for hubs. WI is good stuff.

Sure, this is not an IF, Geekhouse or a Lobster among others that I desire more, but it is entry level and out of the box ready to thrash on. At least this way you get your feet wet with a CX bike and if you really dig it...you upgrade to something else.

Gunnar and Ritchey's are nice though as are the others called out. Just depends on what you budget can handle.

[fourflys]

if you need something a bit cheaper then I'd say go with Gunnar... if you can pay a bit more, the three I'd be looking at in terms of descending price (not quality) are Zancanato, DeSalvo, and Rock Lobster... I all are awesome bikes, it just depends how much you want to throw down...

BTW- I forgot about Soulcraft, another great option...

http://www.zanconato.com/#splash-f4da1

http://www.desalvocycles.com/

http://www.rocklobstercycles.com/

http://www.soulcraftbikes.com/frames.php?frame_id=2

[fourflys]

Yes seems like a great option for $1100 and free shipping for a complete bike. The 4130 will probably not be top shelf though so it will be a tad on the heavy side.




$1100 for 4130? that's a bit on the high side IMHO... 4130 is basically what your Surly is made out of I'm pretty sure... I can tell 4130 certainly won't be any lighter than your Surly... a Rock Lobster frame mentioned is only $1350...

[Liv2RideHard]

$1100 for 4130? that's a bit on the high side IMHO... 4130 is basically what your Surly is made out of I'm pretty sure... I can tell 4130 certainly won't be any lighter than your Surly... a Rock Lobster frame mentioned is only $1350...

From the Civilian site...

FRAME - HART DESIGN 4130 BUTTED CR-MO TUBESET - ENGLISH 68MM BB, SLIDING DROPOUTS, 130MM REAR SPACING

Yes, def. not a Lobster, Zanc or Soulcraft (forgot about them). But...for $1100 OP gets a complete bike and not just a frame. If it were me...and my first CX bike...can't go wrong. They also say on their site they will take it back w/in 3 months if one is not satisfied. Frame comes with a 3 yr warranty too. Now if I had cash, I would rank them...Speedvagen, Rock Lobster, Geekhouse, Soulcraft, Spooky. Not sure what the OPs budget is though...

[redir]

A few years back I was looking for the same thing. I ended up getting a Lemond which I really like but at the time I was really looking into a custom Curtlo bike. Unless things have changed he was selling fully custom frames sets for a very good price.

[Erik_A]

Wow, I always thought 4130 was a generic term for chromoly and the better qualities came from butting etc: This was a good read:

from: http://www.finishing.com/323/64.shtml

The 4130 is a code of the American Iron & Steel Institute and defines the approximate chemical composition of the steel.

The "41" denotes a low alloy steel containing nominally 1 percent chromium and 0.2 percent molybdenum (hence the nickname "chromoly"). The "30" denotes a carbon content of 0.30 percent. In addition, as normal constituents of plain carbon and low alloy steels, there will be around 0.2-0.5 percent silicon, 0.5-1.0 percent manganese, and well under 0.1 percent of each of a dozen or so other elements whose presence is unavoidable, in a few cases deliberate, and generally not harmful. The remaining 97-98 percent is iron (Fe).

There are many tens, perhaps hundreds, of different steels defined by that AISI 4-digit code system. The code does not specify any particular mechanical properties, only approximate chemical composition. For any particular grade (composition) (AISI number) of steel, the mechanical properties depend on what heat treatment has been applied, and what (if any) cold work has subsequently been done.

Also good info here: http://reynoldstechnology.biz/our_materials_853.php

[fiamme red]

Jeff Lyon:

http://www.lyonsport.com/frames.html

L'avecaise

Fillet Brazed, Unfiled : $995
Fillet Brazed, Filed : $1300
Lugged : $1200

L'avecaise Fork : $250http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6708896005_946bf96b03_z.jpg

[redir]

DT shifters on a cross bike?

[fiamme red]

DT shifters on a cross bike?Of course, that bike isn't made for racing cyclocross, but Jeff Lyon can build you a L'avecaise that is.

[Erik_A]

Well, I switched gears trying to justify a custom high end steel frame vs a 4130 (welded in Taiwan) frame that wouldn't be much better than the Cross Check that I just sold.

I went ahead and bought a NOS: 60cm 2009 Cannondale CAAD9 CX9 cyclocross frame. The geometry is exactly what I would have ordered custom: a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube. I will install a All-City Nature Boy steel fork instead of carbon due to my heavy 220 lb body weight. Many have mentioned that the CAAD9 have a great ride quality, so I can't wait to find out.

I am fairly confident that other than carbon, this is the lightest frame that would safely hold up to my weight.


2009 - 60cm - CAAD9 GEOMETRY:

Horizontal Top Tube 600mm
Seat Tube Angle 73 deg
Head Tube Angle 73 deg
Chainstay Length 432mm
BB Height 290mm
Wheelbase 1057mm
Trail 59mm
Standover Height 876mm
Head Tube Length 200mm

[ngilbert]

I outweigh you by a couple biscuits and a few ladles of gravy but have been beating on one of these for a few months with no issues. . .

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/products/civilian/2012/vive_le_roi-zoom2.jpg

On sale for $1100, either in 59 or 61.

This is one of the best looking bikes I've ever seen! Since I am also in the market for a steel CX frame, this further complicates my decision...

[fourflys]

To the op- nice choice on the CX9... Hard to beat a C-Dale...

[spacemen3]

You might also want to consider a Stoemper Eddy (http://stoemper.com/eddy.php).

[fogrider]

and dirt = heaven!

[Erik_A]

Thanks again guys for all of your advice - it came down to the geometry and in order to get a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube on a decent steel frame, I would have had to go custom - and I couldn't afford to do that presently. Eventually, I may sell all of my bikes and get a custom frame and just use different wheelsets for cross and road. Someday...

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks again guys for all of your advice - it came down to the geometry and in order to get a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube on a decent steel frame, I would have had to go custom - and I couldn't afford to do that presently. Eventually, I may sell all of my bikes and get a custom frame and just use different wheelsets for cross and road. Someday...

Not trying to be picky but a 62 or 64 Gunnar have a 60-ish top tube and 194 to 214 headtube..need the exact 60/200 for sizing??

[Liv2RideHard]

Thanks again guys for all of your advice - it came down to the geometry and in order to get a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube on a decent steel frame, I would have had to go custom - and I couldn't afford to do that presently. Eventually, I may sell all of my bikes and get a custom frame and just use different wheelsets for cross and road. Someday...

Either way good choice with the cdale. I am in the same position. Go with something like the civilian that is affordable now and is complete or continue tto save and go custom. I am leaning towards holding off until I can get what I want and not settling for something bc it is a good deal. I look at the components on the civilian and am like...upgrade this and that and that...new wheels straight away etc. Adding up all that I can get my SV pre loved or a Rock or a Geek...enjoy the cdale and post pics when she is built. Cheers.

[Erik_A]

yea- the Gunnar looks to be a sweet ride. Got the C-dale for less than 1/2 (almost 1/3) the cost - and honestly that helped sway the decision. Now with the BB30 requiring new cranks; it may be a wash... I have heard that the C-dale CAAD9 with the wishbone rear-end makes for a fairly forgiving/ but stiff ride - not quite steel smooth though.

Not trying to be picky but a 62 or 64 Gunnar have a 60-ish top tube and 194 to 214 headtube..need the exact 60/200 for sizing??

[nooneline]

Does anyone have recommendations for a fairly lightweight "modern" steel cross frame, that comes stock with a 60cm top-tube? I have given up on looking for a carbon frame that fits, and since I am 220 lbs - it wouldn't matter much anyway!

what is your price range? if sufficiently high, you're going to be a ton better off having a reputable builder build something tuned for your weight and riding style than something off the shelf.

In that regard... I've got a Humble Frameworks (http://humbleframeworks.cc/), built by Michael Catano in Chicago. Built with modestly light parts (everyday parts, nothing out of the ordinary), it winds up being quite light, though I don't have a number - certainly light enough for a small person to hoist over barriers without any difficulty, and enough bike to get me to cat 2.

He's done work with light tubing like S3, he's done some creative stuff with modern flair like tapered headtubes, BB30 shells, and fine-tuned the ride and race-ability of some bikes with creative rear triangles. Check out his work - I can't recommend it enough.

[djg]

Not trying to be picky but a 62 or 64 Gunnar have a 60-ish top tube and 194 to 214 headtube..need the exact 60/200 for sizing??

Plus -- and I'm not pushing anything, much less trying to do a fitting over the Internet (or in person, for that matter) -- one might ask where the numbers are coming from. Lotsa folks like a top tube that's close to what they run on the road, but maybe just a touch shorter, and the HT comparison may be thrown off a bit because the front end of the bike is likely to be a little different (HTA, fork, etc).

[Erik_A]

There was definitely something odd with the geometry on the 2007/ 2008 Surly Cross Check that I sold. Just didn't feel right. So, I am coming up with the specs based on adjustments that I would have made to that bikes measurements. And the head-tube height of 200mm is just because I am old and don't like riding hunched over anymore. I am not saying that the geometry is better than the Gunnar though, I would likely swap the C-dale for a Gunnar if I found a 62 or 64 used! In the meantime I will likely use a FSA BB30 adaptor and convert the bottom bracket to threaded to save cost and use my existing crankset.

[fourflys]

Either way good choice with the cdale. I am in the same position. Go with something like the civilian that is affordable now and is complete or continue tto save and go custom. I am leaning towards holding off until I can get what I want and not settling for something bc it is a good deal. I look at the components on the civilian and am like...upgrade this and that and that...new wheels straight away etc. Adding up all that I can get my SV pre loved or a Rock or a Geek...enjoy the cdale and post pics when she is built. Cheers.

I think I've decided that life is too short to compromise... save up for what you really want IMHO... now if you are bikeless, you gotta do what you gotta do!

[pdmtong]

Not trying to be picky but a 62 or 64 Gunnar have a 60-ish top tube and 194 to 214 headtube..need the exact 60/200 for sizing??

my thoughts as well. if there is no bag of money for custom, then you have to get it close and compromise'

[Erik_A]

Thanks man, I didn't know that (170 lb. cutoff), thanks for the info. Does this mean the Cannondale Cyclocross 5/ CAAD9, is under-designed for my weight? I don't want to snap an aluminum frame.

I came very close to pulling the trigger on a Gunnar Crosshairs, thinking that because it is steel it would hold up well to my 220 lbs. I didn't even know that the Fastlane ( http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/fast-lane/ ) was a cross bike. Does Gunnar talk more about what their official weight ranges and tube material/ strengths are? I would imaging that a 68cm Crosshairs would be a bit stronger/ heavier gauge than the 54cm Crosshairs, even for racing (Have you seen a rider that weighs 170 fit on a 68cm bike?). My guess is that even for Gunnar's race bikes when they get to sizes over 60cm they beef up the tubes - I would like to find out.

Also, this makes me reconsider the Civilian Vive Le Roi because it uses 4130 steel which even though heavier than Reynolds 853/ Tange Platinum, my understanding is that it is inherently stronger. http://www.ridecvln.com/bike-types/cyclocross/

So, if I need a beefier $975 Gunnar Fastlane frame for my weight, I may just spring for a $1200 Civilian Vive Le Roi, complete.

Most competition bike frames, regardless of material used, are designed by manufacturers for riders that are between 145 lbs and 170lbs in mind, because people that do compete in events are, on the average, around that weight range. This is one of the reasons that when a 230 lbs customer tells a serious custom wheel builder that they want him or her to build them a set of "bomb proof" light wheels that they can put on a light road or off road bike, if that wheel builder is honest, he or she will usually tell them to get their weight down to at least 170 lbs, and give them a call back. A lightweight frame will start behaving unpredictably when you start putting 200lbs or more weight on it, and even more if that bike then has to take on gravel or broken pavement. Some manufacturers have started addressing this issue with bikes that have a beefier set of top tube and down tubes. Waterford Precision Cycles, for example, also makes the Gunnar brand of bicycles, which in turn has a lineup of cyclocross frames. They have their original CX frame, the Crosshairs, with their regular OS2 Air Hardening tube set. They have their new disk based competition frame, the Hyper X. And finally they have their heavy duty frame, the Fastlane, which has a beefier sset of the OS2 Air Hardening top tubes and down tubes. Not only can they accommodate a heavier rider, they can also double as a lightweight touring machine if set up properly. The downside with the Fastlane, is that the beefier tube set make the bike a little heavier. But what you trade in weight, you gain in pure comfort enjoyment and resilience.

[bluesea]

Between those choices I wouldn't have to think twice about going with Rock Lobster, but there will be a wait. A bike named civilian--that's just friggen retarded.

[echelon_john]

I'm bigger than you, OP, and have a Caad9 CX that I love. Exact dimensions you're looking for, great handling/performance, and not a lot of $$.

I build steel bikes and have another cross bike that I love, but the Cannondale is so damn practical and fits well so I grab it pretty frequently for dirt road rides.

PS I have no concerns about the fork strength of the stock fork, but if I did I'd slap an Enve on it and never give it another thought.

[jet sanchez]

The Raleigh Roper gets some pretty good reviews.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wg_jTEgRfPk/TvN8_EANDBI/AAAAAAAAADY/aHWSmvmu7eA/s1600/RA12_Roper_dksilver.jpg

I like the Furley myself

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.svpply.com/large/770018.jpg?1336421086

[Erik_A]

John- Awesome advice, thanks for the confirmation on the CADD9 - I will go ahead and build it up ( I was worried since someone told me it dented easily - that it may not be stout enough for 6'-4" / 220lbs). I still plan on using the All-City Nature Boy steel fork with the frame - which is heavy in comparison to the CAAD9 - but I am OK with it, since my wheels (w/clinchers) are nothing special, and I am putting a BB30 adapter in to use standard Shimano 105 cranks. So overall it is not going to be super lightweight.




I'm bigger than you, OP, and have a Caad9 CX that I love. Exact dimensions you're looking for, great handling/performance, and not a lot of $$.

I build steel bikes and have another cross bike that I love, but the Cannondale is so damn practical and fits well so I grab it pretty frequently for dirt road rides.

PS I have no concerns about the fork strength of the stock fork, but if I did I'd slap an Enve on it and never give it another thought.

[Erik_A]

Hadn't heard of the Roper - good price $1400 on sale: http://www.rei.com/product/830073/raleigh-roper-bike-2012-charcoal?preferredSku=8300730004&cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-8300730004&mr:trackingCode=48C6B0F1-16C2-E111-8DC4-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA

The top tube on the LG/ 59cm is only 580, so it would be too small for me. http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/roper-12/

The Raleigh Roper gets some pretty good reviews.

[that guy]

Hadn't heard of the Roper - good price $1400 on sale: http://www.rei.com/product/830073/raleigh-roper-bike-2012-charcoal?preferredSku=8300730004&cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-8300730004&mr:trackingCode=48C6B0F1-16C2-E111-8DC4-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA

The top tube on the LG/ 59cm is only 580, so it would be too small for me. http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/roper-12/

The Raleighs would make great commuters, but hardly qualify as "lightweight".

[fourflys]

The Raleighs would make great commuters, but hardly qualify as "lightweight".

That was my thoughts when I read the reviews on them..

[Erik_A]

Received the Cannondale back from the mechanics at my LBS (Joes Bike Shop - Baltimore) last week.

I have only done 2 training rides so far, but it has a really great ride - loving it (even with the other mish-mash of parts, heavy wheels and steel front fork).

[Erik_A]

My recent budget C'dale build now that it is dialed-in after a half dozen rides. I am loving it, smoothest aluminum frame that I have ridden. Many "cheap" heavier components - chosen for their strength (I am 6'-4" 225#) - so far, so good.

Frame
2009 CAAD9 CX9 Cyclocross 5
Size: 60cm
Frame Construction: TIG-welded
Frame Tubing Material: CAAD9 Optimo Taper Butted Alloy
Fork Brand & Model: All City; Nature Boy
Fork Material: Steel

Components
Brakeset: Shimano CX-70 Catilevers
Shift Levers: late 1990's Campy Record Ergo – 8 speed
Front Derailleur: Shimano CX-70
Rear Derailleur: Campy Veloce
Crankset: Shimano CX-50 Compact Double, 46/36 teeth
Pedals: Crank Brothers - Eggbeaters
Bottom Bracket: Shimano 105 with a FSA BB30 adapter to English threaded
BB Shell Width: 68mm
Rear Cogs: 8-speed, 11 - 32 teeth
Seatpost: FSA Carbon, 27.2mm diameter
Saddle: Specialized Avatar Gel - 130
Handlebar: Salsa Cowbell 3 - 46cm
Bar Wrap: Salsa Gel Cork Bar Tape
Handlebar Stem: FSA

Wheels
Hubs Shimano Deore
Rims Alex DH19
Tires 700 x 35c Continental Speed King

[AgilisMerlin]

what size headtube, curious :eek: looks alu. humungous - in a good/pleasant/easy on my eyes type of way

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/products/civilian/2012/vive_le_roi-zoom2.jpg

[Gummee]

then get a Gunnar.

btw, Gunnar says the Crosshairs handles more like a stage race road bike than a pure, CX racing bike. That's fine with me. I don't feel like I can/want to train enough to get on the podium in a Men's B or Cat 3/4 race, I don't feel like I need or even 'deserve' a purebred CX race bike, and I need a general purpose commuter, so the Crosshairs fits my needs. It'll probably fit your needs as well, but if you want something different, you need to consider that.

I'll agree with this. My Crosshairs is a great all-round bike (gonna ride it on the road today in fact) but its not a 'race bike.' If you want something you can ride off-road, dirt roads, on the road and race occasionally then its a fantastic choice. If racing it is your first criteria, look somewhere else.

HTH

M

[echelon_john]

I'd worry a whole lot more about that carbon seat post than I would about the stock fork. Especially if you're actually doing 'cross mounts/dismounts.

[zennmotion]

I'd worry a whole lot more about that carbon seat post than I would about the stock fork. Especially if you're actually doing 'cross mounts/dismounts.

Yeah +100, the carbon post is a safety issue especially for a big guy on the learning curve-and replace it with something more stout in metal, ideally 2 bolt design (eg Oval Concepts or Ritchey as budget possibilities). Nothing more painful than a broken carbon post or more pathetic than a slipped saddle pointing straight up mid-race. Other (unsolicited) advice- swap the 46 chainring for a 42 or 44 at the largest- your shifting will be much faster, you swap a couple of gears at the high end that you'll never use for more gear combinations in the middle that are actually useful. Since budget is an issue (I race and love smart budget bikes!) you can do just fine with a cheap $20 BMX 110bcd chainring (tons of these on Ebay), no need for ramps and pins when combined with a 36t small ring and 8/9 speed chains- it will shift fast and be consistently reliable, I have no complaints from 3 long seasons of use on mine (MCS brand). Those tires will be fine in dry conditions (as nearly anything is) but you'll be looking to upgrade soon if you race under gray skies...

[DRZRM]

I'm confused as to the source of this quote. It is a wild generalization. I'm 6'3", 220ish and I've had wheels built for me by any number of builders, including echalonjohn and Justin Spinelli (and I've discussed wheels with ergott without getting this response) several of which are "bomb proof" enough to ride hard on trails and for cross training without any need for a truing. To be under 170 I'd look like Wiggo, and while I never look for ultra light stuff, my IF SSR is 17.5 lbs. with bottle cages and pedals with a full Record 10 group and is a very stiff (but compliant :cool:) ride. I run 28 spokes on the road bike, 32 on cross wheels, 32 holes on my Zanc 29er, and ran lower count spoke CrossMax wheels on my Moots 26er for years until it was sold.

Wheelbuilders who told potential customers to lose weight rather than build them appropriate wheels would likely not last long in this business.

Anyway, as I said, it was not clear where the quote came from, but the idea that all race bikes are only safe for riders up to 170 lbs. seems like a serious overstatement.



Most competition bike frames, regardless of material used, are designed by manufacturers for riders that are between 145 lbs and 170lbs in mind, because people that do compete in events are, on the average, around that weight range. This is one of the reasons that when a 230 lbs customer tells a serious custom wheel builder that they want him or her to build them a set of "bomb proof" light wheels that they can put on a light road or off road bike, if that wheel builder is honest, he or she will usually tell them to get their weight down to at least 170 lbs, and give them a call back. A lightweight frame will start behaving unpredictably when you start putting 200lbs or more weight on it, and even more if that bike then has to take on gravel or broken pavement.

[zennmotion]

I'm confused as to the source of this quote. It is a wild generalization.

Wheelbuilders who told potential customers to lose weight rather than build them appropriate wheels would likely not last long in this business.

Anyway, as I said, it was not clear where the quote came from, but the idea that all race bikes are only safe for riders up to 170 lbs. seems like a serious overstatement.
Agreed on the generalization, sounds like arm-waving chatter to me. But, focusing on the point of the thread, Mr. Erik_A now has a good bike that will soon be seen course en-tête tearing up the mid-atlantic fields. I look forward to seeing it in Charm City! Just replace that seatpost!

[brando]

Put green loctite on that bb30, per Cannondale's spec sheet.

Anyone else have any experience with the Ritchey Swiss Cross. There's one nearby I'm thinking about.

[zennmotion]

Put green loctite on that bb30, per Cannondale's spec sheet.

Anyone else have any experience with the Ritchey Swiss Cross. There's one nearby I'm thinking about.

Maybe start a new thread? This one's run a few courses already. Swiss Cross deserves center stage attention. Better not reveal where it is, or it'll be gonzo pronto!

[Erik_A]

Is there a high rate of seat post failures? I have commuted on this post for a few years, and it seems stable. I do have a very nice aluminum Thompson post - but this FSA carbon has the furthest setback of any post I could find; which helps my fit. (any recommendations for a similar shaped alum. seatpost?)

I'd worry a whole lot more about that carbon seat post than I would about the stock fork. Especially if you're actually doing 'cross mounts/dismounts.

[zennmotion]

Is there a high rate of seat post failures? I have commuted on this post for a few years, and it seems stable. I do have a very nice aluminum Thompson post - but this FSA carbon has the furthest setback of any post I could find; which helps my fit. (any recommendations for a similar shaped alum. seatpost?)

The rate of failure fails to weigh your risk factors of cyclocross use- particularly in the first clumsy year or two, a large rider, you have a lot of post showing, and single bolt clamp doesn't help. I seem to see at least one or two busted carbon posts, and a few more stripped clamps every cross season. Not common, but it happens. But it's not so much the chance of failure as the consequences of the failure that, to me anyway, would make a modest investment in a more stoutly metal post a smart buy. If you posted (pun!) the question in a new thread, I'm sure you'd get some suggestions for the setback you need. Here's a modest priced one from Velo Orange (bonus! local for you!) with 2 bolts:
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-grand-cru-seat-post-long-setback.html

[echelon_john]

my point was just that if you were concerned enough about any risk of the stock carbon fork to switch to steel, then running a carbon seapost with that much setback seems like a contradiction.

i personally think the stock fork on a caad9 cx bike is plenty overbuilt for big dudes, but totally understand you wanting to remove it from the equation based on your concerns about it. the less you worry, the more fun your riding will be and the better you'll perform, for sure.

but the ramifications of a broken carbon seat post CAN be as bad or worse than a broken carbon fork, so if you're being consistent it would make sense to look for a beefier aluminum post. to that end, check out thomsons, or the salsa shaft if you can find one. good adjustability and very strong.

either way, i think optimizing your bike so that you're not worried about/second guessing durability is a good thing; when you're a big dude, as i've said a lot, an extra pound of bike in return for very near 100% peace of mind is a pretty good deal.

cheers,
jc

The rate of failure fails to weigh your risk factors of cyclocross use- particularly in the first clumsy year or two, a large rider, you have a lot of post showing, and single bolt clamp doesn't help. I seem to see at least one or two busted carbon posts, and a few more stripped clamps every cross season. Not common, but it happens. But it's not so much the chance of failure as the consequences of the failure that, to me anyway, would make a modest investment in a more stoutly metal post a smart buy. If you posted (pun!) the question in a new thread, I'm sure you'd get some suggestions for the setback you need. Here's a modest priced one from Velo Orange (bonus! local for you!) with 2 bolts:
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-grand-cru-seat-post-long-setback.html

[Erik_A]

JC -

Good points. I bought the CAAD9frame without a front fork - so going with a steel fork was an easy decision. Honestly, I didn't consider breaking the seatpost - I was just hoping for a bit of flex in the post to even out the rigidity of the aluminum frame. Since the CAAD9 has such a great ride feel (even on gravel etc.) I am fine with a strong rigid alum. seatpost. I just want to find an affordable one with as much setback as possible.

Erik


my point was just that if you were concerned enough about any risk of the stock carbon fork to switch to steel, then running a carbon seapost with that much setback seems like a contradiction.

i personally think the stock fork on a caad9 cx bike is plenty overbuilt for big dudes, but totally understand you wanting to remove it from the equation based on your concerns about it. the less you worry, the more fun your riding will be and the better you'll perform, for sure.

but the ramifications of a broken carbon seat post CAN be as bad or worse than a broken carbon fork, so if you're being consistent it would make sense to look for a beefier aluminum post. to that end, check out thomsons, or the salsa shaft if you can find one. good adjustability and very strong.

either way, i think optimizing your bike so that you're not worried about/second guessing durability is a good thing; when you're a big dude, as i've said a lot, an extra pound of bike in return for very near 100% peace of mind is a pretty good deal.

cheers,
jc

[benc]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soma-Double-Cross-Frame-60cm-Black-/290757749145?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item43b2832999

[zennmotion]

JC -

Good points. I bought the CAAD9frame without a front fork - so going with a steel fork was an easy decision. Honestly, I didn't consider breaking the seatpost - I was just hoping for a bit of flex in the post to even out the rigidity of the aluminum frame. Since the CAAD9 has such a great ride feel (even on gravel etc.) I am fine with a strong rigid alum. seatpost. I just want to find an affordable one with as much setback as possible.

Erik

Using fat CX tires at low pressure makes the "rigidity" of any frame a moot point- and a 45-60min cyclocross pukefest is not a long epic ride, you're not going to be thinking about your frame material and road vibrations. You're going to be thinking about what not to eat for breakfast next time. And also, keep in mind that many riders prefer a cyclocross saddle position that is a cm or two further forward that what they ride on the road. Seat a little lower, a little more forward, bars a little higher and closer. You'll eventually dial in what works for you, but you may not need or want as much setback as you think- cyclocross setup is optimized more for power and speed (think more quads) than efficiency, it's a short hard full tilt race with the sprint at the beginning. If you haven't already, you should seek out the boys and girls of your local C3 (Charm City Cycling) team- a major cyclocross powerhouse with some very talented and experience riders- much better face to face advice than you'll ever get in this forum.

[gavingould]

^ this guy's got it nailed.
i am same size/weight as Erik A, but had no problem with a 57cm Felt F3x last season. full carbon frame/fork, and yes i've crashed it damn hard too. the tapered steerer helps a lot with front end rigidity. before the Felt i had a Jamis Supernova (61cm, alu, Easton ec90x fork) that was a bit noodly when jamming it into corners. always felt too stretched out...the smaller bike is a bit easier to throw around and handles more nimbly.

i would also recommend Humble Frameworks in Chicago... Michael's a good friend, but I have not personally ridden one of his machines.