Critique a new site please

[junkfood]

I am working on a website for a local custom builder and am wanting some feedback from other people that visit similar sites.

It is obviously incomplete, and I do not yet have all of the desired content (photos, copy, etc.) I am just wanting some constructive criticism, insults, anything to get some more ideas flowing. Especially on the gallery, maybe some examples of ones you guys like.

http://www.jakebeeson.com/edoz/

Thanks!
Jake

[rnhood]

The golden rule for a frame builder's website is that it should have a picture of him with the torch in hand. Don't forget this photo.

[4Rings6Stars]

I think it looks pretty good so far.

I think the tab "pricing ordering" should have an "and", an ampersand or even a slash. It reads awkward as it is now.

Also, and I know you said content isn't final, but I think the gallery should include detail pictures of raw frames a la Dave Kirk. The photos currently in there don't seem to be very high resolution either.

If I was buying from a builder who's work I hadn't seen in person, hi resolution detail pictures of the brazing / joints would be the most thing for me to see.

[junkfood]

I think it looks pretty good so far.

I think the tab "pricing ordering" should have an "and", an ampersand or even a slash. It reads awkward as it is now.

Also, and I know you said content isn't final, but I think the gallery should include detail pictures of raw frames a la Dave Kirk. The photos currently in there don't seem to be very high resolution either.

If I was buying from a builder who's work I hadn't seen in person, hi resolution detail pictures of the brazing / joints would be the most thing for me to see.

Good suggestion on the pricing/ordering, already fixed that. I would normally do that anyway, I have just been looking at it too long I guess. :)

There will definitely be some raw pics in the gallery when it is all said and done. Keep the suggestions coming.

Jake

[MattTuck]

The site looks good from a quick glance.

I'd say that it is more important for a builder to keep updating pictures than having good pictures to start with. The reason is that people may go visit the site 5+ times before making a purchase decision, and you want to give them a slightly new experience each time.

I personally don't like the look of the bike at the top of the "latest" tab. That saddle and seatpost combo don't work for my aesthetic. That is just my opinion though.

[Wilkinson4]

How about adding blog capabilities so the build can show off current builds, give an idea of his next customers in the queue, etc...?.?.

mIKE

[wc1934]

Great start and good luck.
I especially like the latest stuff category but, imho it gets lost under the pricing and ordering tab - would like to see that as its own tab.
Under contacts, will you list phone numbers/fax numbers?

[Wilkinson4]

Great start and good luck.
I especially like the latest stuff category but, imho it gets lost under the pricing and ordering tab - would like to see that as its own tab.
Under contacts, will you list phone numbers/fax numbers?

Oh shoot, latest stuff = blog! Cool. I still like what Waltworks does as far as communicating his wait list and order of queue. I think can go a long way.

Looking good.

mIKE

[junkfood]

Oh shoot, latest stuff = blog! Cool. I still like what Waltworks does as far as communicating his wait list and order of queue. I think can go a long way.

Looking good.



This is actually what the "Latest" section was, I have now changed the menu title to "Latest Stuff" also. Once the site is final, all previous post from his current blog will be imported and he will continue to have blogging capabilities.

The site looks good from a quick glance.

I'd say that it is more important for a builder to keep updating pictures than having good pictures to start with. The reason is that people may go visit the site 5+ times before making a purchase decision, and you want to give them a slightly new experience each time.

I personally don't like the look of the bike at the top of the "latest" tab. That saddle and seatpost combo don't work for my aesthetic. That is just my opinion though.

Like I stated above that is the blog section. He has some more proper pics available that showcase his talents better.

I agree with the build, I believe this was setup for the owner. The seatpost and saddle do look out of place.

Jake

[Louis]

Perhaps a nit, but I think the "Premium Quality" stamp is a bit much. IMO you shouldn't have to shout that at top volume, but show it in a more subtle way through images of the product, descriptions of techniques or builder history, or perhaps quotes from happy customers.

Unless the builder thinks of the frames as steak that he's going to stamp, but even then, it seems a bit cheesy to me.

[buldogge]

Coming along nicely Jake...I think all the tools are there...to either shine or not. A lot will depend on the quality of the pics and the depth of the content.

Someone needs to get a real feel for a frame builder they have never met, especially a new one...make sure his style/personality shine thru in the text and pics.

I assume the blog will take care of a lot of this aspect.

Most importantly...Are you getting a frame for the web design???

-Mark in St. Louis

[junkfood]

Coming along nicely Jake...I think all the tools are there...to either shine or not. A lot will depend on the quality of the pics and the depth of the content.

Someone needs to get a real feel for a frame builder they have never met, especially a new one...make sure his style/personality shine thru in the text and pics.

I assume the blog will take care of a lot of this aspect.

Most importantly...Are you getting a frame for the web design???

-Mark in St. Louis

I agree, great photos make all the difference. A site may be well designed, but with out good content it is worthless in my opinion.

Don't think a frame out of the deal is in the cards for this one. I am trying to up my personal portfolio right now and am basically working for free. Hopefully it will lead to more cycling related sites though. I would easily barter for bikes though. :)

Jake

[buldogge]

Don't undersell yourself...has he priced web design work???

It's not too late... ;)

-Mark

I agree, great photos make all the difference. A site may be well designed, but with out good content it is worthless in my opinion.

Don't think a frame out of the deal is in the cards for this one. I am trying to up my personal portfolio right now and am basically working for free. Hopefully it will lead to more cycling related sites though. I would easily barter for bikes though. :)

Jake

[Karin Kirk]

Looks good! The design is clean, simple, and intuitive.
I like the photo gallery format in that the photos are enlargeable and you can use the arrow key to navigate between photos.

A few suggestions:
The 'about' page needs a photo of the builder. Perhaps several photos of the builder.
The 'contact' section uses the same type of form as if you were contacting your senator or writing to GE. Why not be more approachable and just put the email address and phone number there? And a link to the facebook page too.
I'm with Louis in that I find the quality stamp to be a bit out of place on a frame shop.
Will the url change to be the builder's name.com?
The front page could use just a wee bit of text to say what this site/brand is all about.

These are minor suggestions - the site looks solid. Nice work!

[William]

It's a good start. You might also want to explain what "Bilaminate head tube joints" are. Since it looks like he just does fillet brazed it would be helpful. I think of the photo below when I think of bilaminate tube joints.





William

PS: Photo from the Icarus Frames website.

[buldogge]

Strangely, we found an increase in email requests when we switched to a contact page form style...strange, I agree. (and I don't personally like nor use them...I always seek out an address instead as a matter of fact)

OT: I like those Icarus bi-laminates that swap direction top and bottom...pretty cool.

-Mark

[christian]

Dissenting opinion, but I sort of like the stamp. It reinforces "fillet-brazed, steel, Oklahoma - Edoz" to me. Sort of a visual reminder that I've seen this before.

[buldogge]

I don't need to like the stamp...but, I agree with Christian, it begins to establish brand identity immediately.

Of course, this is counterintuitive to the handmade/DIY quality ethos of the steel frame builder aesthetic.

That's a hard edge to balance.

We have huge "brand recognition" in the St. Louis region...but...it actually costs us with the "cool kids", for example.

-Mark

Dissenting opinion, but I sort of like the stamp. It reinforces "fillet-brazed, steel, Oklahoma - Edoz" to me. Sort of a visual reminder that I've seen this before.

[dbh]

Perhaps a nit, but I think the "Premium Quality" stamp is a bit much. IMO you shouldn't have to shout that at top volume, but show it in a more subtle way through images of the product, descriptions of techniques or builder history, or perhaps quotes from happy customers.

Unless the builder thinks of the frames as steak that he's going to stamp, but even then, it seems a bit cheesy to me.

"Premium Quality" stamp reminds me of some Chinatown knockoff handbag storefront.

[biker72]

The home page is the "grabber" for customers. If the home page doesn't look good people tend not to look any farther.

Home page looks nice and clean. I like the slick "slider images" without having to resort to Flash.

I like it....:)

[junkfood]

Looks good! The design is clean, simple, and intuitive.
I like the photo gallery format in that the photos are enlargeable and you can use the arrow key to navigate between photos.


A few suggestions:

The 'about' page needs a photo of the builder. Perhaps several photos of the builder.
I put a few on there for now.


The 'contact' section uses the same type of form as if you were contacting your senator or writing to GE. Why not be more approachable and just put the email address and phone number there? And a link to the facebook page too.
When the site is complete the contact imformation will be available as well as the government issued contact form ;)



I'm with Louis in that I find the quality stamp to be a bit out of place on a frame shop.
I changed the "premium quality" to "Edoz" now. It is still a stamp, but maybe that will eliminate some of the "cheesiness.


Will the url change to be the builder's name.com?
Yes. This is just a test site to work on until complete.


The front page could use just a wee bit of text to say what this site/brand is all about.
I agree. I am waiting for Eric's input on some key things he would like to hit on for the homepage.

Thanks so much for everyone's comments and suggestions, it is a work in progress.

Jake

[texbike]

Very cool! I like the simplicity and clean lines of the design. Did you use Wordpress? I put together my first website yesterday w/Pleskar and it looks terrible. Oh well, it's a good thing I don't make a living doing websites... :)

Texbike

[junkfood]

Very cool! I like the simplicity and clean lines of the design. Did you use Wordpress? I put together my first website yesterday w/Pleskar and it looks terrible. Oh well, it's a good thing I don't make a living doing websites... :)

Texbike

Thanks, and yes it is wordpress. I don't really build websites for a living either. I am a carpenter and an artist. I have recently been taking on small web design work, but I have much to learn.

Jake

[that guy]

Few more things: The first "hello world" blog post is still there. I'd delete that.

Also, a custom favicon is easy and a nice touch.

Otherwise, very nice!

[oliver1850]

Looks good. I'd like to see more info about the builder. What's the story behind the name? E(ric)Doz????? I always remember the story about Mr. Moots the alligator and the Cannondale train station. Also a physical location is one of the first things I look for. OK is a big place.

[gdw]

Looks good but I'd advise you use English on the gallery page....

"John Doe’s Bike
Curabitur scelerisque aliquam augue sed adipiscing. Nulla facilisi. Nullam quis quam eget purus euismod euismod. Nulla vitae eros mi. Sed ac orci ligula. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Aliquam congue est facilisis lectus dignissim id aliquam turpis varius. Mauris tempus rutrum tortor ultrices convallis. Maecenas enim magna, faucibus ac blandit ornare, fringilla quis urna. Mauris ultrices tristique odio, vitae cursus lacus dapibus ac. Integer vitae odio a massa porta tristique in at mauris"

[Peter P.]

Geez; you did a nice job on the site. It's easy on the eyes, easy to navigate, and the information is easy to find.

What I'd like to see:

Info on the builder's philosophy on the bikes he builds. What kind? What style of assembly or materials?

How about including an order form, maybe downloadable, with body measurements, bike measurements, blahblahblah. It gives insight into the builder's sense of detail, priority, organization, and more. Besides, I think it adds to the temptation to actually order a bike or perhaps start a conversation.

Someone else mentioned the "Quality Stamp". I think that stamp is cool, and would be a great tie-in to the frames if it's actually applied to the frames themselves, in maybe a variety of colors. Of course, that's a builder issue and not a web site issue.

I would remove mention of "I currently only build 12 frames a year" on the Price/Ordering page under Deposit. If I know how many frames a builder is producing a year and I perceive it as small, I'm inclined to think the builder is not popular/busy/productive/proficient. I detracts from my impression of them.

[junkfood]

What I'd like to see:

Info on the builder's philosophy on the bikes he builds. What kind? What style of assembly or materials?

How about including an order form, maybe downloadable, with body measurements, bike measurements, blahblahblah. It gives insight into the builder's sense of detail, priority, organization, and more. Besides, I think it adds to the temptation to actually order a bike or perhaps start a conversation.

I would remove mention of "I currently only build 12 frames a year" on the Price/Ordering page under Deposit. If I know how many frames a builder is producing a year and I perceive it as small, I'm inclined to think the builder is not popular/busy/productive/proficient. I detracts from my impression of them.

I like forms on the site or available for download also. I will try and incorporate that.

I can make suggestions on the content, but in the end that is up to the builder. I will definitely share some of the ideas that I have received here. I would like a little more on the about page also.

Few more things: The first "hello world" blog post is still there. I'd delete that.

Also, a custom favicon is easy and a nice touch.

Otherwise, very nice!

I will remove the Hello World post when I import his past post. I wanted there to be more than one post to get a little of an idea of what it will look like.

He has a logo that he uses for his headbadge, I am recreating it in illustrator and I will use that for the Favicon, just have not gotten around to it yet. I agree, that is a nice touch.

Looks good. I'd like to see more info about the builder. What's the story behind the name? E(ric)Doz????? I always remember the story about Mr. Moots the alligator and the Cannondale train station. Also a physical location is one of the first things I look for. OK is a big place.

Once again, I can make suggestions on the content, but in the end that is up to him.

Looks good but I'd advise you use English on the gallery page....

"John Doe’s Bike
Curabitur scelerisque aliquam augue sed adipiscing. Nulla facilisi. Nullam quis quam eget purus euismod euismod. Nulla vitae eros mi. Sed ac orci ligula. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Aliquam congue est facilisis lectus dignissim id aliquam turpis varius. Mauris tempus rutrum tortor ultrices convallis. Maecenas enim magna, faucibus ac blandit ornare, fringilla quis urna. Mauris ultrices tristique odio, vitae cursus lacus dapibus ac. Integer vitae odio a massa porta tristique in at mauris"

The Latin along with the current thumbnails on the gallery page are just placeholders.

Keep the suggestions rolling this is very nice.

Jake

[DreaminJohn]

Maybe it's my newly-installed Firefox, but the "back" arrow was grayed out when the site launched. I had to navigate manually to get back here.

Anyone else see that behavior?

[Ginger]

It may seem odd, but keep in mind with a framebuilder's or artists web site, you're selling a piece of them. And you're building trust. Seems a lot to do in a few pages, but you can. How old is your target market? (what's the usual age of the person who buys a frame from him? this can vary, but it will affect whether some design item will be annoying to the majority of his users, or just a few that he probably wouldn't get frame orders from anyhow...)

Photo wise...I didn't have to do this with D, but I've used the technique with others who are shy of the camera...Get him comfortable, talking about framebuilding, and take his picture throughout the conversation, at some point he'll start ignoring the camera and you'll get a good one of him in his shop looking straight out of the photo at the viewer.

Careful with your thumbnails, you've chopped his head off on the About page (the one with him holding the bike) Chopped heads like that are good in kill bill, not so good on a builder's web page. Same with the frame pricing page, give the customer the full view of what they're buying. I don't get the impression that the cut photos are artistic, they're annoying.

Bike buyers like to see a whole built bike and lots of details. While many here can look at a frame and see the whole thing...many can't. But don't not show them the whole product at some stage. I try to be very careful in the detail shots I put on the web that they're similar to what you'd see if you were there in person looking at the frame, even if you were crouching down to check out the rear dropout...

A tip: Just because a bike is built and fantastic for the owner, doesn't mean it needs to appear on the web site. Wait for bikes that are really really representational of what your builder loves to build. If they get one that they're over the moon about building, it will show. Until then you need just enough updates so that people know your builder is still alive and taking orders. I know I've used some less than fabulous photos on D's site, and there's no excuse for that. Well...I have an excuse...but I really need to go take them down right now! ( but I'm working on Tshirt designs for the Pushies Galore swap meet...Brisbane, July 14 or so...be there!)

I'll weigh in on the Pork Stamp too (Premium Quality). You've got too many hands in that little space (that's what she said...)
Premium Quality is all well and good...but you've got Handcrafted in Oklahoma twice along with Handmade. Drop the top "Handcrafted in Oklahoma" because it's just above Handmade Steel.
Alternatively, you could have his brand name in place of the Premium Quality and if you must keep that, put Premium Quality on the top....

so it would be

Premium Quality
Handmade Steel
Edoz
Bicycles
Handcrafted in Oklahoma

Oh, and a paypal button for the deposit. Right there. Where it says deposit. Don't be shy, let the people buy the bikes!
I never fill out forms, I don't know what security you've got on that site...but...instead of typing the email in text, you can put an image of the contact email address with a secure link to email and the spam robots won't find it. :)


Overall, good job on the site!

[Fixed]

Curabitur scelerisque aliquam augue sed adipiscing. Nulla facilisi. Nullam quis quam eget purus euismod euismod. Nulla vitae eros mi. Sed ac orci ligula. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Aliquam congue est facilisis lectus dignissim id aliquam turpis varius. Mauris tempus rutrum tortor ultrices convallis. Maecenas enim magna, faucibus ac blandit ornare, fringilla quis urna. Mauris ultrices tristique odio, vitae cursus lacus dapibus ac. Integer vitae odio a massa porta tristique in at mauris.
IMHO
Cheers

[junkfood]

It may seem odd, but keep in mind with a framebuilder's or artists web site, you're selling a piece of them. And you're building trust. Seems a lot to do in a few pages, but you can. How old is your target market? (what's the usual age of the person who buys a frame from him? this can vary, but it will affect whether some design item will be annoying to the majority of his users, or just a few that he probably wouldn't get frame orders from anyhow...)

Photo wise...I didn't have to do this with D, but I've used the technique with others who are shy of the camera...Get him comfortable, talking about framebuilding, and take his picture throughout the conversation, at some point he'll start ignoring the camera and you'll get a good one of him in his shop looking straight out of the photo at the viewer.

Careful with your thumbnails, you've chopped his head off on the About page (the one with him holding the bike) Chopped heads like that are good in kill bill, not so good on a builder's web page. Same with the frame pricing page, give the customer the full view of what they're buying. I don't get the impression that the cut photos are artistic, they're annoying.

Bike buyers like to see a whole built bike and lots of details. While many here can look at a frame and see the whole thing...many can't. But don't not show them the whole product at some stage. I try to be very careful in the detail shots I put on the web that they're similar to what you'd see if you were there in person looking at the frame, even if you were crouching down to check out the rear dropout...

A tip: Just because a bike is built and fantastic for the owner, doesn't mean it needs to appear on the web site. Wait for bikes that are really really representational of what your builder loves to build. If they get one that they're over the moon about building, it will show. Until then you need just enough updates so that people know your builder is still alive and taking orders. I know I've used some less than fabulous photos on D's site, and there's no excuse for that. Well...I have an excuse...but I really need to go take them down right now! ( but I'm working on Tshirt designs for the Pushies Galore swap meet...Brisbane, July 14 or so...be there!)

I'll weigh in on the Pork Stamp too (Premium Quality). You've got too many hands in that little space (that's what she said...)
Premium Quality is all well and good...but you've got Handcrafted in Oklahoma twice along with Handmade. Drop the top "Handcrafted in Oklahoma" because it's just above Handmade Steel.
Alternatively, you could have his brand name in place of the Premium Quality and if you must keep that, put Premium Quality on the top....

so it would be

Premium Quality
Handmade Steel
Edoz
Bicycles
Handcrafted in Oklahoma

Oh, and a paypal button for the deposit. Right there. Where it says deposit. Don't be shy, let the people buy the bikes!
I never fill out forms, I don't know what security you've got on that site...but...instead of typing the email in text, you can put an image of the contact email address with a secure link to email and the spam robots won't find it. :)


Overall, good job on the site!

Thanks so much for taking the time for a well thought out critique.

I have not had a chance to speak with the builder as much as I would like, so as far as his target market goes I am still getting a feel for it.

None of the photos are mine they are just pics that he currently has, I hope to get some quality pics of the builder himself.

The Thumbnails are just formed from a plugin right now, once the content is finalized I will crop and create my own. Just getting a feel for layout right now.

I would love to have more pics of complete bikes, most of the complete bike photos available to me are not as great as I would like. The bikes are nice, but some of the backgrounds or photos themselves are not so great. I am trying to work with what I have for right now, so some of the crops are less than desirable and annoying like you said.

I have already suggested a paypal button for deposits, not sure if it will happen when the site is final or not.

Thanks again for all the suggestions, I appreciate the help.

Jake