Did I overpay for my shoes?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I just bought some new road shoes (Fizik), and when I checked the price at home (after buying them) I found out I payed almost $100 over MSRP. Now, the shop includes a cleat fitting with the shoe price, but I'm not sure that totally makes up the difference. I think elsewhere the cost of a cleat fit is 50-75. Thoughts?

[rugbysecondrow]

Yes

[Steve in SLO]

I would have thought a good LBS would not charge over MSRP and in addition would offer a free or discounted cleat fitting.

[Louis]

I think elsewhere the cost of a cleat fit is 50-75. Thoughts?

Even that sounds excessive, if you're buying the shoes from them. I can maybe understand that if you take in shoes purchased elsewhere, but not something you just bought from them.

They're shooting themselves in the foot (so to speak) on this one. Shoes are one thing I'm usually happy to purchase from the LBS so I'm assured of a good fit. I usually don't buy many hard-goods at all. Sometimes labor, for stuff like wheel-building that requires actual skill. This sort experience would turn me off that LBS for good.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I thought so. I know the owner well so I plan to raise the issue. He's a great guy and I love the shop, but this leaves a bad taste.

[AngryScientist]

definitely overpaid. how long did this "cleat fitting" take place ?

things made by certain companies usually sell right at msrp, no matter where you get them. apple products, specialized stuff, etc.

i find this to be very fair to everyone involved, and will pony up the cash when necessary, for example, i love specialized saddles, and gladly pay MSRP for them at literally any specialized shop, from NYC to kansas, i would expect to pay the same for the same saddle.

paying over msrp, by $100 - that's just crazy.

[wooly]

Do us a favor and let us know what shop it was so we can avoid them like stink.

My advice is to return them and mount your own cleats.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Cleat fit is an hour long.

[rugbysecondrow]

Cleat fit is an hour long.

An hour? That seems long to me.

[wc1934]

Do us a favor and let us know what shop it was so we can avoid them like stink.

My advice is to return them and mount your own cleats.

yup

[old fat man]

I thought so. I know the owner well so I plan to raise the issue. He's a great guy and I love the shop, but this leaves a bad taste.

wait, you got overcharged in a boston bike shop? that's a new one :rolleyes:

[Fixed]

Maybe they made a mistake
Cheers

[wooly]

Maybe they made a mistake
Cheers

I love you Fixed. You always look at the bright side of everything. Terrific outlook on life. I'm taking notes.

[Honey]

Hopefully fixed is right. Especially if they didn't tell you what the cost of the cleat fit is up front and even more so if you're already fit to your bike and that's not part of the deal.

If it's not too late, bring them back, that's ridiculous. MSRP in the internet age is the high side of what something should cost. I'm just out on route 2, am in the city regularly and would be happy to work with you for a bit on your cleats though I'd expect you'd have some cold beer waiting. I know that's steep but such is life.

I'm not one for naming names, but if they If they aren't helpful in resolving this I'd appreciate it as I would like to go out of my way to avoid them.

edit: if that includes the heat molding soles then all bets are off but that's pretty bogus if they don't do that.

[pdmtong]

I have a weoird knee so I need a cleat fit from someon other than me. that said, yea maybe $50-75.....so yer only off by $25....bfd


I was tempted by the fizik shoes at sea otter...$100 off and no tax BUT I just wasnt convinced of the fit I needed. every other shoe I could tell what size I need...shimano, sidi, dmt, specialized....but not the fizik

they look nice, real leather.

let us kow how you like them

[merlincustom1]

Maybe Old P can chime in on this one?

[oldpotatoe]

Hopefully fixed is right. Especially if they didn't tell you what the cost of the cleat fit is up front and even more so if you're already fit to your bike and that's not part of the deal.

If it's not too late, bring them back, that's ridiculous. MSRP in the internet age is the high side of what something should cost. I'm just out on route 2, am in the city regularly and would be happy to work with you for a bit on your cleats though I'd expect you'd have some cold beer waiting. I know that's steep but such is life.

I'm not one for naming names, but if they If they aren't helpful in resolving this I'd appreciate it as I would like to go out of my way to avoid them.

edit: if that includes the heat molding soles then all bets are off but that's pretty bogus if they don't do that.

"MSRP in the internet age is the high side of what something should cost."

"Should' cost? This comment illustrates how little most people know about retail costs-fixed costs, variable costs and how it applies to MSRP.

Deeply discounted items, from operations that rely on volume, is NOT the 'standard'. IMHO, from this bike shop owner.

PLUS I don't believe in MSRP++. I think there is more to this story.

As for us, we don't sell shoes. Too many models, too many changes, gotta have a ton of them all the time(small shop) and be prepared to discount them deeply as they change the models(seemingly once or twice a year). No thanks.

If I sell a set of pedals, I include a free cleat fit. Takes about an hour, is much more than attaching cleats and seeing the person ride the bike on a trainer. Often involves seat height and fore-aft as well, since most people are fit poorly to their bikes, it seems.

[jr59]

The question to me is; Were you happy with what you bought, before you went and looked it up on the net?

If you can be honest with yourself and say "yea I was fine".
Then it's just a case of buyer's remorse.
Any real retail shop, with a place you can go try stuff on, and pick it up to see what it feels like, where they provide a service, is NEVER going to be as cheap as the internet! To those people that think it should be. NO COMMENT! :butt:

Maybe they did make a mistake, maybe you get an adjustment, or maybe the shop would like to keep it's doors open.

I love the prices I get on the net. But when I bring these parts into a shop that has the same thing on the shelf, I won't feel bad if they charge me more to install them. Or if i have to wait a while for them to do it.

With soft goods I think it's different. I have NEVER gone in and tried on a shoe, helmet or any other thing and went and bought it on the net. That is just not right. When I buy it, it's mine and I don't bother looking for another price on line. That is until I need another. Then I know what size and I order it.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Try to keep in mind the few extra dollars you spend at the LBS keeps the lights on.

[Chance]

If I sell a set of pedals, I include a free cleat fit. Takes about an hour, is much more than attaching cleats and seeing the person ride the bike on a trainer. Often involves seat height and fore-aft as well, since most people are fit poorly to their bikes, it seems.

Need to check out your shop next time in Colorado. Sounds like great service.

[Bruce K]

When in Boulder, or within driving distance, a trip to Vecchio's is an absolute MUST!

:banana:

BK

[Ti Designs]

I'm just not sure if this was my shop or not. I don't think we have the Fizik shoes, but every time I look there's something new there. A cleat fitting that takes an hour - I am the slowest fitter in the east, could have been me. A free cleat fitting with the purchase of shoes? Nope, not me...

I just have to ask, what took an hour?

[Wilkinson4]

Red laser is your friend. Shows you local or online price comparison. That said, be kind to your LBS, as long as they are not charging you $100 over typical.

http://redlaser.com/

These types of apps really can empower the consumer... The brick and mortar store fronts that offer no service will be hard pressed to compete eventually.

mIKE

[biker72]

I just bought some new road shoes (Fizik), and when I checked the price at home (after buying them) I found out I payed almost $100 over MSRP. Now, the shop includes a cleat fitting with the shoe price, but I'm not sure that totally makes up the difference. I think elsewhere the cost of a cleat fit is 50-75. Thoughts?

Yes

Where I work:
Shoes-MSRP
Cleats-$25 includes fitting.

[slidey]

MSRP + $100 > MSRP = Overcharged...no service is worth that much money. On the contrary, charging $100 over MSRP is in itself dishonest service, so forget about goodness here.

I just bought some new road shoes (Fizik), and when I checked the price at home (after buying them) I found out I payed almost $100 over MSRP. Now, the shop includes a cleat fitting with the shoe price, but I'm not sure that totally makes up the difference. I think elsewhere the cost of a cleat fit is 50-75. Thoughts?

[Hindmost]

Caveat emptor. A major part of the answer is: where do you place value? Is it the ready availability of the item? Is it getting a good or best price? Is it obtaining service you trust and can return to in the future?

Answering your question in advance of the purchase would have avoided that sinking feeling. But then who of us has never experienced buyer's remorse?

[keevon]

1) Are they the shoes you wanted?

2) Was that the only shop where you could try them on?

3) Aside from the MSRP issue, were you happy with the service?

4) Were you OK with the price at the time of purchase?

If the answer to those questions is "YES", then you didn't overpay.

[cnighbor1]

To pay a reasonable price for shoes I sugest return one. that will reduce price by 1/2
wear an old bike shoe for other foot

[tiretrax]

Yes

Where I work:
Shoes-MSRP
Cleats-$25 includes fitting.

Why wouldn't they fit the cleats I just purchased even though I bought my shoes elsewhere?

[Bruce K]

For the same reason they don't install the parts on your bike for free when you buy them.

Some shops will swap them, as in: old ones off and new ones on in the same place, but if there is any time spent making changes/adjustments there is time and labor involved that most shops get paid for.

BK

[biker72]

Why wouldn't they fit the cleats I just purchased even though I bought my shoes elsewhere?

They should. Let me check on the store policy..

[Jason E]

A couple of things.

First, I still think we are only hearing a partial story.

Second, whether you buy shoes and cleats together or bring in one or the other, I have always thought it was BS that a shop should be expected to mount cleats for free. I'm an adult, they are my friggin' legs, and if I don't know how to do it I am less able to correct the position once out on the road.

If I do not know how to do something that if not done correctly will lead to discomfort or minor injury/pain, shouldn't I pay for that service? Free cleat mounting expectations is garbage.

Next time I buy chamois creme and shorts should I ask they put that on for me?!?! That I bet they charge for!! :)

I will say if I am spending thousands a year and I have another set of identical shoes and cleats for reference I would not be upset if they did not charge.

Seriously though, mount your own friggin cleats or pay for it with a smile.

[Ti Designs]

Why wouldn't they fit the cleats I just purchased even though I bought my shoes elsewhere?

The way I see it, the cleat fitting has to do with hips, knees and ankles. My shop doesn't sell body parts, I charge for cleat fittings.

The funny thing about values is they change. There was a guy on a group ride last year who gave me all kinds of crap about how we charge to put cleats on shoes - and we do. A cleat fitting is $50 with a $15 credit if you buy the shoes from us. He went on an on about charging his son $35 to put in six screws. I did point out that his son uses SPD pedals so it was really $35 to put in four screws, and that I moved the cleat inboard because of a medial tracking issue... There was nothing I was going to say there that would have changed his mind about the shop.

A few weeks later the same guy has knee problems and winds up in my fitting stand. Before he left I swear I heard him say "You do all that for $35?".

[Jason E]

The way I see it, the cleat fitting has to do with hips, knees and ankles. My shop doesn't sell body parts, I charge for cleat fittings.

The funny thing about values is they change. There was a guy on a group ride last year who gave me all kinds of crap about how we charge to put cleats on shoes - and we do. A cleat fitting is $50 with a $15 credit if you buy the shoes from us. He went on an on about charging his son $35 to put in six screws. I did point out that his son uses SPD pedals so it was really $35 to put in four screws, and that I moved the cleat inboard because of a medial tracking issue... There was nothing I was going to say there that would have changed his mind about the shop.

A few weeks later the same guy has knee problems and winds up in my fitting stand. Before he left I swear I heard him say "You do all that for $35?".

[x] like

Charging for a specialty service
Stimulating the economy
Keeping people employed
Not intimidated by false rationale that the client is always right.

I heart this story.

[Ti Designs]

Keeping people employed <<<--- Yeh, that one!


Not intimidated by false rationale that the client is always right.

I think it was Ignatz Schwinn who said "the customer is always right". It's worth pointing out that Iggy wasn't the customer at the time, so he may not have been right. If two customers get into an argument in my shop, can I settle it by deleting one of them from our customer database? If a company rep is also a customer, so we're their customer and they're our customer, who's right then?

[Fixed]

Honey ,Do they match the dress? :)
Cheers

[Jason E]

We have a sign at work, we have a few actually, but one in particular goes like this:

"The customer is not always right, but he is the customer and can fire every single one of us, from tradesmen to executive board, by taking his money elsewhere."

I don't allow clients to make poor choices if they are very wrong and will be costly. We treat their money, their resource, as if it were our own. But we do retain the right to voice our concern, say no with respect, and place value on our services and experience.

If I may say, we have a lot of happy clients. We also have a lot of clients that went low bidder, and came to us to fix the problem. Clients and vendors know where we stand on topics very quickly.

[1centaur]

When I hear $100 over MSRP I think of two possibilities:

Bike shop is not doing well and scavenging for extra dollars under the guise of "paying for in-stockness" - on the way out of business.

One side or the other has a data element wrong. I'd be interested to hear the MSRP/model as found on the Net, so that perhaps someone could find that MSRP has just changed, or something like that.

[Ti Designs]

We have a sticker on the toilet that came off a Schwinn, it says "wet rims require increased stopping distance". It's not really related to this thread, but...


Often disagreements with clients are due to a very simple view of the subject. When it comes to something people think is simple, riding a bike has to be right up there at the top of the list. The other end of the problem in our case is that people see working in a bike shop as an alternative to flipping burgers at BK. I've had lots of fittings where the client really wanted to do their own fitting and just have me swap out parts. They're paying for my time, they're paying for parts, at some point I give up the argument, it pays my salary... The other week I had a guy come to the counter looking for a stem (seems he got some advice from the internet). I started to explain that stem length was a secondary parameter in fit and pretty soon I was checking my fitting schedule and taking his bike downstairs. I went over the whole fit and how he should be supporting his weight, wound up lowering the stem that he had and charging him for the fit. He also tipped me. And a week later he tipped me again and we talked some more about handlebar types.

I think the biggest challenge cycling faces is this idea that it's so simple. It's far more damaging to the sport than the drug busts in pro racing. There's almost no education about riding or fitting, once you can balance on two wheels you think you can ride a bike. Where would we be if once we could read all school stopped? If that were the case, how would you know what you were missing? Given 20 pages of Ed-like jibberish I might be able to explain a cleat fitting, none of this I knew when I first got cycling shoes. In frustration I often fall back on "learn how to ride", what I really mean is keep an open mind, there's stuff to learn.

[Joachim]

The value of a (good) cleat fit is often underrated.

[keevon]

We have a sticker on the toilet that came off a Schwinn, it says "wet rims require increased stopping distance". It's not really related to this thread, but...
Ed, that made my day. Thank you :beer:

[soulspinner]

The value of a (good) cleat fit is often underrated.


+1

Shop I worked at we would swap cleats accurately shoe to shoe for anyone free. But a cleat fitting alone is another thing.:no: