Eccentric bottom bracket?

[jpw]

Does anyone know if Serotta offers an eccentric bottom bracket option?

[Argos]

No, I discussing this with Kelly, and they do not.

Interestingly, along these lines, I was about to pose this question...

If you were to get a SS Serotta (fixed or not, but with Track-forks) would you get the white industries hub ENO Eccentric hub? I'd like to have the Paul-Components rear Track forks with the screw-tension adjusters, but I'd imagine they wouldn't build with those as they are not theirs.

I'm getting a Fixed Serotta at some point. I'm about to place an order for one for a lady, once she decides on color (hear that steve :D ) and I'd love to hear what your opinions are on this.

[Too Tall]

Why wouldn't you order it with normal track dropouts and use standard fixed gear hubs? I am missing the point????

[Argos]

I'm sorry. I call Track Drop-outs "Track Forks". Technically it is the correct name, but it is confusing because people think I may mean the Fork. Sorry.

I am ordering Track Dropouts (forks) for the frame(s).

[flydhest]

the only reason to opt for an eccentric BB instead of just reverse track forks (dropouts) is to be able to use disc brakes withough readjusting things.

[Argos]

That makes alot of sense. I guess that is why some SS Cross bikes (Planet-Cross) have that as an option. I mean, most track bikes do not, and they have no problems, so....

Is there a "Board Preferred" 130mm Flip-flop?

[Too Tall]

Don't HATE me....

130 spacing??? Dewd, order a standard track bike with a road (front) fork. Standard track bike spacing is 120. This puts you into the fine world of really good and very available track goods....for alot of cabbage or very little. No eccentric, no 130 spacing...track bike baby. KISS.

What could be finer than Phil Wood Flip Flop (fixed / freewheel) setup I ask yah?

There is not a good reason to space new SS bikes for anything other than what FlyMyGuy says....but doing so would complicate riding the track should they ever wish to. (more stuff to unbolt).

[Argos]

This bike is never going to see a track, she wants to use it for offseason riding. Moreso, We're building it with Cyclocross clearance. Phil offers beautiful stuff in 130, also.

[jpw]

Don't HATE me....

130 spacing??? Dewd, order a standard track bike with a road (front) fork. Standard track bike spacing is 120. This puts you into the fine world of really good and very available track goods....for alot of cabbage or very little. No eccentric, no 130 spacing...track bike baby. KISS.

What could be finer than Phil Wood Flip Flop (fixed / freewheel) setup I ask yah?

There is not a good reason to space new SS bikes for anything other than what FlyMyGuy says....but doing so would complicate riding the track should they ever wish to. (more stuff to unbolt).

I don't understand this last post- "FlyMyGuy"; what?

Are you saying 120mm or 130mm is best?

[Dekonick]

I also want a 130mm flip flop - I already have the frame and don't plan on riding track any time soon... as there isn't one even close! :crap:

somehow the 120mm options with spacers just don't look as nice (thats what I am using right now) as a 130mm would. Am I wrong?

[jpw]

I'm not really thinking of a track frame solution, just a bike that can be SS but also be gearable when required. Therefore, track ends are not on my list.

Moots are doing an EBB with vertical dropouts and a hanger.

[zank]

Hi Argos,
Track fork ends and the ENO eccentric hub would be redundant if used together. White has the ENO available in a standard version as well, which works with track fork ends. Either way, they are great hubs. I do not know how well the Eno Eccentric and vertical dropouts would work in FIXED applications, but it does work very well in single speed freewheel applications.

Paul's track ends are very sweet. As with all things Paul, workmanship is top-notch. But, as you point out, I don't know if Serotta will use them.

Phil Wood, White Industries, and LeveL Components are all pretty trick hubs, and I think you can get each of them in 120 or 130 spacing. Of course, you have Campagnolo and Shimano for 120 spacing. For cross, 130 is a good way to go for tire clearance. I would just double check the chainline to be sure all is well.

My fixed gear road bike is in the works, and I will be using track fork ends, LeveL hubs and cogs, and a Campy crank and BB. I am also working on a single speed mountain bike, which will use vertical dropouts, a Phil Wood Eccentric BB shell, insert, hubs and BB, White Eno cranks, and Eno freewheels.

Hope that helps a little.

[Argos]

Zank,

Thanks. Yeah, I figured it would be redundant, but thought I'd ask. All of your info, as was everyone, was great.

You know Campy makes a set of Record 10 Carbon Levers with no internals or thumb shifters that would look great on that bike your building. I already have mine! Just waiting on a bike now.

Jason

[zank]

you know me too well! They are on order at this point. But, I will only go with SILVER Record calipers.

Which model Serotta are you looking at?

[Argos]

I think if I am buying a SS/Fixed for myself, I'd want it to be steel. I really like the traditional lines of the Colorado III. I'll ask Kelly to use a little stiffer tubeset then the regular road Tubeset, for when I'm Fix'n along, but other then that, not too different in Geometry then my existing Serotta.

I'd get Track geometry (Too Tall) but, honestly, there is no velodrome here. I had this conversation with a friend of mine last week, and you know what, if they build a 'drome, I'll buy a bike specifically for it. Not even a second thought. Until then, it makes little sense.

[zank]

I agree. My fixed gear will be virtually identical to my road bike, because I do not plan on running it on the track either. Just for fun and training. And, of course, I agree with you on your frame material selection :-)

[NicaDog]

Cane Creek also makes a pair that have the release button to expand the calipers to remove the wheel - come in black or gum hoods, black or silver levers.

I have no affiliation with the company.

[Too Tall]

I don't believe 120 spacing is a problem for cross tires...infact it is a non issue if I'm not mistaken. Dave, did the nurse take the drip out? Help me out.

Let's thin' this ting out Rickey. The build with real track cranks like Sugino 75s, Phil SL Track Hubs, Phil 109 BB, 42 something front ring. Using a 15/16/17 rear Phil cogs (common ones) gives a great range in the 'hood of 60 to 75ish gear inches. That is a perfect setup. So the question to ask (aheem) Dave or Tom K. is: will there be sufficient clearance using this setup for cross tires. I'm thinking not an issue still.

[TimB]

My Gunnar fixee (with track ends) has a 120mm rear, and clearance for 38mm tires and fenders.

I think their new version (based on road and not cross) has only clearance for 25mm tires - so tire width might indeed be a design issue - but not one dependent solely on the width of the rear hub.

[Argos]

Too Tall and Tim B.

You are both absolutely right.

The thought is if there is clearance for cross tires, then it already is not able to be a traditional Track Geometry. Not as low of a front end, longer chainstays, different fork. That said, Kelly's Suggestion was for the 130 as it offered more Hub options. He's quite a frame-meister, so...

There is nothing wrong with a 120, and my Colorado III will be 120, but this really suits her needs, that is all.

Seriously though, I do appreciate the feedback. One of these days I'll have one too!

[zank]

I mocked up a rear end with 120 mm spacing with a PCD BB, Deda oval chainstays, and a 42.6 cm CS length. The clearance where the tires passes is around 40 mm. A little tight for my taste. With 130 mm spacing, the clearance is 47-48 mm. A couple of small dimples would improve the clearance for the 120 mm spacing.

[nick0137]

If you want a great builder who'll do an EBB try Carl Strong. He built me a winter/commuter fixie (in ti but he does steel as well) a few years ago and it's great. Reasons for an EBB? (1) Neater at the drop out than with track ends. (2) Ti track ends were a bit hard to come by. And (most usefully) (3) It makes getting the rear wheel in and out (particularly if you have mudguards) so much easier than with track ends. For a bike that's never going to see a track I'd go with an EBB every time.

[The Spider]

Argos and Zank,

Tell me about brakes with fixed gear....is that because your using them as commuter / training bikes?

I have no experience with riding track/fixed bikes, the couriers seem to be able to slam brakes on just by apply resistance to the cranks...is that right?

[Dustin]

Forget what the messengers are doing--if you don't have knees of steel, a front brake, or even two brakes are the way to go on a fixie trainer/commuter.

[nick0137]

You'll need at least a front brake. Ever see a no-brake courier going down a 10% hill in a group on a Sunday club ride? Nope, neither have I - they cruise around the city and are (just about) safe for that. If you go only for a front brake make sure it's a good stopper - I've got a Paul Neo-Retro canti which would stop pretty much anything pretty much anywhere.

[zank]

Nick, I agree with you on the EBB front. But, most of my customers want a traditional looking track bike/fixed gear. So, they want track fork ends. For those who are open minded to an EBB, it makes sense for the reasons you mentioned. For single speed mountain bikes, I think it is a no-brainer regardless of the brake system used.

Spider, I am putting brakes on my fixed gear because it will never see a track. Only fun riding and training. As Dustin and Nick said, I will need brakes on a group ride. I definately don't have the skills or knees of a messanger.

[Argos]

Argos and Zank,

Tell me about brakes with fixed gear....is that because your using them as commuter / training bikes?

I have no experience with riding track/fixed bikes, the couriers seem to be able to slam brakes on just by apply resistance to the cranks...is that right?

I used to work in NYC and at one point in downtown DC, and while there are a fringe of messengers with no brakes, there are more that do. Plenty of single speeds, but also plenty of Geared bikes.

Sure, I can stop it with out a brake, but I can also put a front brake on. Just seems safer with a family at home.

[The Spider]

Having never thrown a leg over a fixie I had no idea how difficult it was to stop the thing!

I run Hope 6 inch disc brakes on my commuter....she stop's quickly and effortlessly, so I can definetly agree with your need for the ability to modulate speed quickly.