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vqdriver
06-14-2012, 12:36 PM
i don't have use for cantis, but these look pretty cool if you're into it

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/calipers/grand-cru-long-arm-cantilever-brakes.html

jmoore
06-14-2012, 01:09 PM
i don't have use for cantis, but these look pretty cool if you're into it

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/calipers/grand-cru-long-arm-cantilever-brakes.html

VO make some nice stuff. Whoever designs it does a great job. These brakes are no exception.

sg8357
06-14-2012, 02:05 PM
Tektro's take on low profile with barrel adjuster.
also the fixed cable anchor is nicer, rotates and
has a larger area clamping the cable compared to the VO.
Note, they don't work with narrow post spacing, 65mm or so.

http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_products/01_prodetail.php?pid=156&sortname=Cyclocross&sort=2&fid=3

GRAVELBIKE
06-14-2012, 04:21 PM
Tektro's take on low profile with barrel adjuster.
also the fixed cable anchor is nicer, rotates and
has a larger area clamping the cable compared to the VO.
Note, they don't work with narrow post spacing, 65mm or so.

http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_products/01_prodetail.php?pid=156&sortname=Cyclocross&sort=2&fid=3

I just ordered those. I wanted to replace my Shimano cantilevers' pads and straddles, and it was more cost effective order the Tektros than just the parts separately.

GRAVELBIKE
06-14-2012, 04:23 PM
VO make some nice stuff. Whoever designs it does a great job. These brakes are no exception.

"Designs" is being generous.

http://cdn1.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net/2011/04/12/2/boom_rabo_giant_pr_brake_600.jpg

cnighbor1
06-14-2012, 06:01 PM
Take a look at new dura ace brakes has they are they designed like center pulls with two pivots points
Which means better braking
Charles

Mark McM
06-15-2012, 09:58 AM
Take a look at new dura ace brakes has they are they designed like center pulls with two pivots points
Which means better braking
Charles

No, they are not centerpull brakes, they are merely a variation of dual-pivot sidepull brakes where both of the pivots are offset.

(Historical note: The very first dual-pivot sidepull brakes had both pivots offset, but in later designs one pivot was moved to center so only the other pivot was offset.)

skijoring
06-15-2012, 10:02 AM
No, they are not centerpull brakes, they are merely a variation of dual-pivot sidepull brakes where both of the pivots are offset.

(Historical note: The very first dual-pivot sidepull brakes had both pivots offset, but in later designs one pivot was moved to center so only the other pivot was offset.)

Careful, you're destroying the 'Mafac rules' narrative!

Chance
06-15-2012, 10:31 AM
Don't see how these brakes could stop a bike if cable was angled as shown here. Know picture is only for demo but shows set up is very important. That seems a major disadvantage.

http://store.velo-orange.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/530x530/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/z/e/zeste_brakes-3.jpg

spacemen3
06-15-2012, 10:47 AM
Don't see how these brakes could stop a bike if cable was angled as shown here.
I was going to say the same thing. The brakes look nice enough, though. It's nice that they're a polished finish rather than black, too.

Chance
06-15-2012, 10:58 AM
No, they are not centerpull brakes, they are merely a variation of dual-pivot sidepull brakes where both of the pivots are offset.

(Historical note: The very first dual-pivot sidepull brakes had both pivots offset, but in later designs one pivot was moved to center so only the other pivot was offset.)

Mark, have you seen pictures or drawings that show clearly how forces are transferred between the two arms to equalize clamping forces? There must be some hidden linkage or else done by simple contact (with added friction) similar to cam on Zero Gs. Would like to see inner workings but can't find data on these.

GRAVELBIKE
06-15-2012, 11:02 AM
Don't see how these brakes could stop a bike if cable was angled as shown here. Know picture is only for demo but shows set up is very important. That seems a major disadvantage.

http://store.velo-orange.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/530x530/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/z/e/zeste_brakes-3.jpg

You see that type of setup all the time. And people wonder why they have such poor stopping power. I guess they're confusing a "hard" feel at the lever (usually in the stand) with actual power.

I've noticed that many cantilevers with fixed-length link wires work much better with lower, conventional straddle cables/yokes.

Mark McM
06-15-2012, 12:16 PM
Mark, have you seen pictures or drawings that show clearly how forces are transferred between the two arms to equalize clamping forces? There must be some hidden linkage or else done by simple contact (with added friction) similar to cam on Zero Gs. Would like to see inner workings but can't find data on these.

I haven't seen a definite drawing, but there are photos and a descriptive paragraph on the road.cc website (http://road.cc/content/news/58457-first-ride-shimano-dura-ace-11-speed) that very strongly imply that the change in the design is largely the offsetting of the pivot that used to be in the center:

http://www.baikbike.com/wp-content/uploads/br1.jpg
"Shimano have redesigned their Dura-Ace brake callipers for 2013 – they’re calling it their SLR-EV design in that it’s an evolution of the existing Super SLR dual pivot.

"The new brake still has two pivots, but rather than having one of the pivots in the centre, each is positioned to the side, at the top of the drop section of the arm. Shimano describe this as a ‘symmetrical dual pivot brake’, which makes sense.

"By repositioning the central pivot to the side, Shimano have shortened the brake arm. They say that this design lowers friction at the pivot area and also reduces flex."

As far as the linkage, the photos appear to show a stub arm projecting from the arm whose pivot is nearest the cable that interacts withe the arm whose pivot is furthest from the cable - just like earlier versions of Shimano's dual-pivot brakes. This new configuration is very much like the KCNC CB1/C6/C7 brakes.

http://www.burkescycles.co.nz/mm5/graphics/k/kcnc_brake_cb7.jpg

Chance
06-15-2012, 12:22 PM
I've noticed that many cantilevers with fixed-length link wires work much better with lower, conventional straddle cables/yokes.

Have also seen pictures of similar brakes adapted to work like linear pull. On pictures above it looks like there may be enough clearance for cable to run straight across tire. That may make for a nice mini-v setup for road bike with skinny tires if cable can be adapted cleanly. On the other hand we could just buy a Tektro or other already set up that way. Maybe not quite as short though.

Chance
06-15-2012, 12:32 PM
"The new brake still has two pivots, but rather than having one of the pivots in the centre, each is positioned to the side, at the top of the drop section of the arm. Shimano describe this as a ‘symmetrical dual pivot brake’, which makes sense."

Thanks. Sounds like an improvement. Guessing the 9010 TT aero version may work similar. Hard to see exactly how it works from pictures alone.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/contentimages/Zap%20News/2012/2013%20Madone/trek8.jpg

Chance
06-15-2012, 12:38 PM
Mark, just realized that original comments were not specifically about TT aero version. My confusion although brakes themselves are probably the same or very similar except for backing plate as support. At least for the front. The rear as shown above is hard to figure out from picture.

Kirk Pacenti
06-15-2012, 12:54 PM
I am partial to these...

Mark McM
06-15-2012, 01:46 PM
Thanks. Sounds like an improvement. Guessing the 9010 TT aero version may work similar. Hard to see exactly how it works from pictures alone.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/contentimages/Zap%20News/2012/2013%20Madone/trek8.jpg

I hadn't seen the TT version before. It is hard to see from this photo how the mechanism works. However, it is apparent that the arm with the housing stop (pivot nearest the cable) has a much lower mechanical avantage (from direct cable force alone), so I think we have to conclude that there must be some type of coupling between the arms.

flydhest
06-15-2012, 02:28 PM
I am partial to these...

Kirk, what are those?

fiamme red
06-15-2012, 02:37 PM
Kirk, what are those?Bruce Gordon:

http://brucegordoncycles.bigcartel.com/product/bgc-cantilever-brakes

Mark McM
06-15-2012, 02:38 PM
Kirk, what are those?

Those are Bruce Gordon Titanium Cantilever brakes:

http://www.bgcycles.com/canti-brakes.html

flydhest
06-15-2012, 04:10 PM
those are purty.