The Un-Fred Steel Frame Postulate

[CaptStash]

Had a great ride this evening on Pacific Coast Highway from Seal Beach down to the end of the Balboa strand and back. Head wind all the way down and sleigh ride back. About half way back I caught a couple of guys who seemed to be working together. I passed them and noticed the lead guy was riding some kind of a really nice looking steel bike. About a half mile later he had ditched the guy drafting off him and was next to me. We began to chat as we sailed downwind at 24 mph. The pretty bike turned out to be an Eisentraut with what I think was an eight speed Campy set-up. Anyway, great ride, nice guy and very skilled cyclist.

I turned off at Seal Beach Blvd. to go to my hotel and as I was riding the last mile alone it occurred to me that while we often see somewhat less skilled cyclists riding top of the line carbon whoop de doo bikes - i.e. "Freds", I can't remember ever seeing a Fred on a classic steel frame.

The Un-Fred postulate: Assumed cycling ability is directly proportional to the quality of the steel frame; whereas, there is no direct relationship between the quality of a modern carbon bike and the rider.

Discuss

CaptStash....

[Gummee]

Do bikes that've been hung in the basement for eons count?

M

[dauwhe]

I'm a Fred, and ride high-quality (usually lugged) steel frames.

[KidWok]

I've become a Fred and have developed an appreciation for the various other types of Fred's out there. Visor on helmet...check. MTB pedals...check. And I still haven't bothered shaving my legs this year.

Tai

[rustychisel]

I can't remember ever seeing a Fred on a classic steel frame.

Discuss

CaptStash....

I see your point but raise you one word...

Hipsters

[fuzzalow]

Steel frame is indicative of 2 possibilities:

1) rider is of the cognoscenti that has discovered the handmade steel frame boutique segment of the cycling world, or

2) rider has owned that steel frame from the halcyon age of classic steel racing bikes when all that could be bought was good steel, decent steel or gaspipe steel. This rider will not be a fred due to substantial miles accumulated on that bike but may choose the fred demeanor as a statement of counter-culture identity.

No one in the modern cycling world chooses to ride a steel frame unless they know something.

[kceb_cire]

I see your point but raise you one word...

Hipsters

I think I fall into that category... But at least I have good taste?
Classicluggedsteel/chrome/campy?

[cnighbor1]

Those carbon fiber riders can have them
I wii stay with steel
I saw a SS frame racing bike at just over 11 lbs.
(legal for racing in OR)
Lets see CF top that
Charles

[CaptStash]

I see your point but raise you one word...

Hipsters

Ewwwwwwwww!

[beeatnik]

Did a shop ride tonight. Age range mid 20s to early 50s. I was the only cat riding steel and rolling on handbuilts. At least half the bikes had deep carbon wheels. Every single rider was on a CF bike, S-Works, Orbea, BH. SRAM Red and Campy on every other bike. Nice bikes. But not a single slammed stem. Anyway, these guys are "Freds" because even though a few of them race, they only know what they see at the bike shop. They just happen to patronize a higher end roadie shop instead of Performance. .

[benitosan1972]

Nowadays hipster ride the carbon... thank gawd for trustfunds! ;)

[christian]

No one in the modern cycling world chooses to ride a steel frame unless they know something.

[x] Like, no love.

[majorpat]

Few years back, everbody rode steel and Fred just so happened to be sporting cutoff jeans, athletic socks with stripes, barcons and a Skid-Lid. He was probably just as knowledgeable about biking as the racers were but he wasn't trying to be a faux-Hinault like me. He probably looked goofy but could easily ride a paceline and in a group.

Then cycling emerged from its 70's and 80's hiding place and went (generally) mainstream. Now we label newcomers with little historical biking knowledge a Fred and the old Fred is now a Retro-Grouch.

I say we need a new term to describe the new "Fred".

Any ideas?

[christian]

I say we need a new term to describe the new "Fred".Judging by what most millenials appear to be named, I suggest Frayden.

[biker72]

I've become a Fred and have developed an appreciation for the various other types of Fred's out there. Visor on helmet...check. MTB pedals...check. And I still haven't bothered shaving my legs this year.

Tai

Guilty as charged....:)
How about aluminum frames being Fredlike..

[charliedid]

Had a great ride this evening on Pacific Coast Highway from Seal Beach down to the end of the Balboa strand and back. Head wind all the way down and sleigh ride back. About half way back I caught a couple of guys who seemed to be working together. I passed them and noticed the lead guy was riding some kind of a really nice looking steel bike. About a half mile later he had ditched the guy drafting off him and was next to me. We began to chat as we sailed downwind at 24 mph. The pretty bike turned out to be an Eisentraut with what I think was an eight speed Campy set-up. Anyway, great ride, nice guy and very skilled cyclist.

I turned off at Seal Beach Blvd. to go to my hotel and as I was riding the last mile alone it occurred to me that while we often see somewhat less skilled cyclists riding top of the line carbon whoop de doo bikes - i.e. "Freds", I can't remember ever seeing a Fred on a classic steel frame.

The Un-Fred postulate: Assumed cycling ability is directly proportional to the quality of the steel frame; whereas, there is no direct relationship between the quality of a modern carbon bike and the rider.

Discuss

CaptStash....

What was it about him that said "Fred"?

[OnTheEllipse]

I think a Fred is simply someone who doesn't have the internet.

[charliedid]

i think a fred is simply someone who doesn't have the internet.

+1

[jr59]

Agree with Old Fred = Retro-grouch!

[plugkev]

Hipster Fred

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7075/7166010659_da22ef005a_c.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Did a shop ride tonight. Age range mid 20s to early 50s. I was the only cat riding steel and rolling on handbuilts. At least half the bikes had deep carbon wheels. Every single rider was on a CF bike, S-Works, Orbea, BH. SRAM Red and Campy on every other bike. Nice bikes. But not a single slammed stem. Anyway, these guys are "Freds" because even though a few of them race, they only know what they see at the bike shop. They just happen to patronize a higher end roadie shop instead of Performance. .

agree.....

Had a gent ask how much heavier the 48mm valve tube was than the 36mm valve.....yeegads.

[Bob Loblaw]

That's funny!

BL


agree.....

Had a gent ask how much heavier the 48mm valve tube was than the 36mm valve.....yeegads.

[CaliFly]

Judging by what most millenials appear to be named, I suggest Frayden.

...aaaaaannd coffee comes out of nose.

Freds, Hipsters, Hippies, Punks, Snobs, Racers, Mashers, Clashers, Dashers, Gnashers...names are just names. Ride on, be happy.

:cool:

[Dekonick]

I AM FRED :eek:

Steel bike(s) check
Hairy - check
Non-matching kit if I wear cycling gear - check
Big H2O bottle(s) - check (sometimes)
Time ATAC pedals - check
35mm tires - check
Fat (kids don't help much here... need more time!) - check'
Old - well, over 40... check

but I do have good bike handling skills... :)

[zap]

Never knew a fred was associated with a steel frame......or any frame material for that matter.

[jr59]

agree.....

Had a gent ask how much heavier the 48mm valve tube was than the 36mm valve.....yeegads.

I hope you told him about 1 lb, and charged him more for the lesser ones!

[John H.]

Freds come in all shapes, sizes and bike preferences.
You can't draw any Fred conclusions just by looking at the bike.
Now when he pedals it?
That said, we are all Freds in someones eyes.

[William]

In order to understand, you need to know your degree of "Fredness". This will help you determine where you stand...

FredPro 101

http://velochimp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/fredorpro_test2.png




:p


William

[DarkStar]

Number two. Steel frame is indicative of 2 possibilities:

1) rider is of the cognoscenti that has discovered the handmade steel frame boutique segment of the cycling world, or

2) rider has owned that steel frame from the halcyon age of classic steel racing bikes when all that could be bought was good steel, decent steel or gaspipe steel. This rider will not be a fred due to substantial miles accumulated on that bike but may choose the fred demeanor as a statement of counter-culture identity.

No one in the modern cycling world chooses to ride a steel frame unless they know something.

[DarkStar]

Have we met?I AM FRED :eek:

Steel bike(s) check
Hairy - check
Non-matching kit if I wear cycling gear - check
Big H2O bottle(s) - check (sometimes)
Time ATAC pedals - check
35mm tires - check
Fat (kids don't help much here... need more time!) - check'
Old - well, over 40... check

but I do have good bike handling skills... :)

[soulspinner]

My last bike will be a beautiful lugged steel to look at as I slowly wheeze by.........:bike:

[sc53]

Judging by what most millenials appear to be named, I suggest Frayden.

HAHAHAH you have hit it my friend! Still laughing at this one.
--Fredrika

[maunahaole]

I'm a fat fred on a steel bike.

[54ny77]

that bolsa chica stretch can be a lotta fun, depending on which way the wind is blowing.

can also be hellacious!

i often ride it whenever travels bring me there. i'm one of those disproportional guys with a nice bike and going too slow, by the way. :)

(but sometimes i'm with pals who basically drag race from seal beach to newport beach, in which case i'm the guy desperately trying to hang on, foaming at the mouth and trying not to hurl...)

Had a great ride this evening on Pacific Coast Highway from Seal Beach down to the end of the Balboa strand and back. Head wind all the way down and sleigh ride back. ....

[jrflanders]

In order to understand, you need to know your degree of "Fredness". This will help you determine where you stand...

FredPro 101


William

Just saw this. It's amazingly accurate - it nailed me as a "wheelsucker."

[lhuerta]

Still not clear why the guy riding the Eisentraut, who was able to catch and keep up with you, is the Fred?

Perhaps the real Fred is the one who didn't recognize the classic steel steed when passing nor was able to identify the correct Campagnolo gruppo on the frame?

Just sayin...Lou

[CaptStash]

Still not clear why the guy riding the Eisentraut, who was able to catch and keep up with you, is the Fred?

Perhaps the real Fred is the one who didn't recognize the classic steel steed when passing nor was able to identify the correct Campagnolo gruppo on the frame?

Just sayin...Lou

Hi Lou,

You're not the only one who misunderstood the original post. My point was that he (the guy on the Eisentraut) most definitely wasn't a "Fred" and that it was generally safe to assume that a guy on an Eisentraut or similarly cool and groovy classic bike was unlikely to be a "Fred" whereas there was little if any correlation between the quality of a cyclist and the the quality of a modern bike (for instance, it seems like you see what seem to be an equal number of good cyclists and idiots on Trek Madones.)

Stash....

[Steve in SLO]

i AM NOT A fRED, i AM, not A fRED!!!
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=112730

[duke]

Are you causing problems again? I need to know if my 15 year old Look is classic enough to avoid the Fred tag or do I have to put the CSI back on the road?
duke

[Fixed]

http://www.fredforum.org/home
I will be here
So long
Cheers

[FlashUNC]

Sadly, I think a lot of it is generational. I was probably the last generation who could walk into a shop and buy a steel bike from one of the several large manufacturers. (My first bike was a Specialized Allez in 1996, thanks Cycles de Oro!)

And once you experience steel's ride characteristics, that tends to stick with you, even as you use other frame materials. I've had buddies who picked up cycling in the late 90's, early 2000's, who have ridden nothing but carbon, because steel has become a niche product.

So maybe it is a sign of experience from another era. I will say on my normal Saturday morning group ride, there are two steel bikes -- mine and the guy pushing 80 who rides a mint Tommaso. People look at me like I'm from Mars. How can I ride a 20 lb bike with 27 c tires and expect to hang with the group?
Well, I pedal, and it goes.

[Steve in SLO]

Agreed, Flash. I was on a group ride with a number of riders who are not long into cycling. I was riding my Merckx Team SC and one guy looks at my bike and says "Geez, Steve, don't you have a bike from this century?"

[KidWok]

Was rolling my Merckx Molteni MX Leader through UW campus last month...not a place I usually go, but my cousin and his family was in town because my niece starts school here this fall. I got more than a handful of compliments from "youngsters". We must have smarter kids up here than other places...:p

Agreed, Flash. I was on a group ride with a number of riders who are not long into cycling. I was riding my Merckx Team SC and one guy looks at my bike and says "Geez, Steve, don't you have a bike from this century?"

[Steve in SLO]

Was rolling my Merckx Molteni MX Leader through UW campus last month...not a place I usually go, but my cousin and his family was in town because my niece starts school here this fall. I got more than a handful of compliments from "youngsters". We must have smarter kids up here than other places...:p

Ironically, I was riding with a group of doctors, all of us over 40.

[Fivethumbs]

Can you hook me up with some Vicadin?....just askin.

[FlashUNC]

Agreed, Flash. I was on a group ride with a number of riders who are not long into cycling. I was riding my Merckx Team SC and one guy looks at my bike and says "Geez, Steve, don't you have a bike from this century?"

But but but the Team SC IS from this century! Team Domo dominance!

[Fixed]

Ironically, I was riding with a group of doctors, all of us over 40.
that explains it can't buy everything
cheers :)

[CaptStash]

Are you causing problems again? I need to know if my 15 year old Look is classic enough to avoid the Fred tag or do I have to put the CSI back on the road?
duke

Nah, you're cool as long as you leave the alloy Campy Record in place. Now the Zipp tubbies....

Stash....

PS: When do I get to audit you? Bwah ha ha ha ha

[Steve in SLO]

Can you hook me up with some Vicadin?....just askin.

First step is you need to spell it right.:butt:

[cnighbor1]

velo august 2012 page 20 quotes Jan heine and how he shows how a flexable 70's steel frame will return your energy input into bending frame has you pedal and return some of that same energy back helping you power forward. than has frame got larger diameter tubing you lost a lot of that returned enery and modern carbon fiber stiff frame return almost none
charles

[Fixed]

velo august 2012 page 20 quotes Jan heine and how he shows how a flexable 70's steel frame will return your energy input into bending frame has you pedal and return some of that same energy back helping you power forward. than has frame got larger diameter tubing you lost a lot of that returned enery and modern carbon fiber stiff frame return almost none
charles

I believe that but no one else does these days
Cheers