Campy: Chorus or Record, does it matter?

[laupsi]

toying w/the idea of fitting a new build w/Campy components. I know there are some weight savings offered on the R/SR groupsets. Also like the cranks on the SR, great bearings and fluid motion but as for the shifter and brakes does one really out perform the other?

[AngryScientist]

absolutely not. chorus is every bit as good as record. you may save a microgram here or there, but you definitely wont be able tell the shifting difference btwn the two, FD, RD and brakes, all pretty much the same stuff.

[cmg]

performance wise record might be infintesmially better. there only grams apart. try to use a record cassette, rear derailluer, chain, everything else can be chorus.

[Joachim]

I have both Super Record and Chorus and my future builds will all have Chorus.

[laupsi]

I have SR on my Ottrott and really love the cranks and BB setup, upgraded to the Ti Spindle and all. Are the Chorus cranks as nice?

[AngryScientist]

I have SR on my Ottrott and really love the cranks and BB setup, upgraded to the Ti Spindle and all. Are the Chorus cranks as nice?

depends on what you mean. they dont have ceramic bearings, or some silly Ti spindle. they use the same BB interface (ultra-torque) though. IMO, they spin just as nice, a little more weight is all.

[AngryScientist]

by the way, i just built this with a full 2012 chorus group. runs fantastically, and i guarantee you can not tell the difference to record or SR without looking at the graphics.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pv2ZKfu1oYg/T6B-cEzzTCI/AAAAAAAAAcg/cElQJUnp5UY/s640/IMG_0642.JPG

[laupsi]

by the way, i just built this with a full 2012 chorus group. runs fantastically, and i guarantee you can not tell the difference to record or SR without looking at the graphics.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pv2ZKfu1oYg/T6B-cEzzTCI/AAAAAAAAAcg/cElQJUnp5UY/s640/IMG_0642.JPG

looks saaaweeet!, Cheers!

[PaMtbRider]

performance wise record might be infintesmially better. there only grams apart. try to use a record cassette, rear derailluer, chain, everything else can be chorus.

I disagree on the cassette. I built my Ottrott with Record but substituted a Chorus cassette. The Record has 3 Ti cogs which do weigh less but also wear quicker. Absolutely no performance difference except weight and the Chorus lasts longer. My next campy build purchase will be full Chorus.

[jr59]

I have both record and chorus, as well as athena.

Truth be told the Athena works better.

To me this is strange; I have swapped wheels and cassettes, Chains, cables between the 3 and I can tell you that with out a doubt the Athena shifts smoother and more solidly that the others.
So what I can't shift all the way down in one shift! I have NEVER lost a sprint because of this and would bet, niether have you!

This is only my small sample size and it may be flawed, but it is the case.

and I use just the chorus cassettes, on all. The ti wears a bit to quickly for me.

YMMV!

[cmg]

looks saaaweeet!, Cheers!

AngryScientist:
have you written a review of the argon?

[Jaq]

If by "outperform" you mean get more nice comments curbside or in the coffee shop, then yes. If you mean that it'll hold it's value for future resale better, then yes. That's just Campy snobbery, to which I'll admit being mildly addicted. To wit, I just sold a set of Chorus hubs/Velocity rim wheels because the hubs weren't Record (to be fair, it also had to do with Chorus hubs not having an oil port (which I like) and the rims were clinchers.)

Otherwise, as everyone's said, absolutely no difference. In fact, if you go to the Campy site and check out their spare parts catalogs, you'll find that inside almost every Chorus component are Record - and occasionally even SR - parts.

At 453 grams per pound, you can make up the difference in weight savings by having one less cheeseburger a week. Or eating more fiber.

[AngryScientist]

AngryScientist:
have you written a review of the argon?

yup, here:

very pleased with the frame overall.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=108914

[crownjewelwl]

super record envy sucks...

[pdmtong]

The difference between c/r/sr is weight not function.

They all work the same. call campy usa, they'll say the same thing.

If you have extra cash, and want to tell the world so, then get SR11. No shame in that.

The value build is always chorus...all the performance but without the premium of SR11.

Chours cassettes will last the longest (all steel)

[FlashUNC]

Functionally you won't notice a difference. Back when everything was ten speed, I used to use just Veloce cassettes. They lasted longer, even if they were a touch heavier.

[beeatnik]

Campagnolo insists that Chorus is their Dura-Ace level group set.

[Bob Loblaw]

In the real world, no one ever lost a race because of the difference between Chorus as opposed to Record or SR. That said, it matters if you THINK it matters.

If you believe your bike is sub-par and is holding you back, it is.

BL

[harryblack]

if money is ANY issue in your life, Chorus all day every day; if it's not, do what makes you happy and then stop worrying. otherwise the weight difference is negligible, functional difference ZILCH.

toying w/the idea of fitting a new build w/Campy components. I know there are some weight savings offered on the R/SR groupsets. Also like the cranks on the SR, great bearings and fluid motion but as for the shifter and brakes does one really out perform the other?

[OperaLover]

and I went with Record. I just couldn't go from Record 10 to Chorus 11. I've been with Record since 1998. Tried to rationalize it, but in the end could not "step down." This was for my 50th b-day so I wanted to splurge. The Record stuff looks and shifts great and hey, its RECORD. Purely an emotional choice, no looking back. Got a great deal from Branford, too.

With that said, when the cassette wears out, I will go Chorus, but for now, my bike is all RECORD 11 with no qualification necessary.

[rounder]

I have two bikes with record 10-speeed and another bike with Chorus 11-speed. To me, Chorus is fine. I don't prefer one over the other. If anything, with Chorus, you do not have to deal with snob appeal issues. Other than that, they both work great.

[oldpotatoe]

toying w/the idea of fitting a new build w/Campy components. I know there are some weight savings offered on the R/SR groupsets. Also like the cranks on the SR, great bearings and fluid motion but as for the shifter and brakes does one really out perform the other?

For the top 3 groups, just more or less 'exotic' materials. Function is identical.

Get Chorus FD(metal), cogset and chain tho-

[oldpotatoe]

I have SR on my Ottrott and really love the cranks and BB setup, upgraded to the Ti Spindle and all. Are the Chorus cranks as nice?

Chorus arms are foam filled, not hollow, spindle is steel, bearings are steel instead of ceramic. NO performance differences, just $. Chorus is the best value, IMHO. Not as many coffee shop points but nothing lost in performance, particularly in cogset and chain.

[Tony T]

>Campy: Chorus or Record, does it matter?

You can also match Chorus with SR/R, for instance, Record for Levers, Chorus for everything else (so when someone takes a quick look at your bike, he'll think you have a full Record set-up :))

[soulspinner]

Not so sure my Chorus 11 is really better than my 10 but rode my buddys Record bike zand swore I couldnt tell the diff (both set up by him, shop mech).

On another note I have a creak in my bottom bracket(11 chorus). Dont have the tool. Bike shop wrenched to 35 newton meters twice but it still makes noise, albeit less on the second try. Should I get the tool and locktite it like Camp says? Or go for 40 newton meters? Old Potatoe?

[laupsi]

Get Chorus FD(metal), cogset and chain tho-

OP you're the man, this is my thinking exactly. I have to say I have Chorus, albeit 10 spd, on another bike and compared to the SR on my Ottrott, the BB and cranks are superior on the SR, everything else is just about the same, save for weight. just MHO.

[Dave]

Athena has powershift levers and that could indeed improve shifting, if you don't mind one-cog at a time shifts to smaller cogs.

The powershift (escape) mechanism is less suceptible to shift cable friction problems.

I prefer the ultrashift, to get mutiple shifts to smaller cogs.

[Dave]

About the BB cups. I've never had a creaking problem when I just greased the threads and torqued the cups to 35Nm. The loctite method is lame and can't really be followed, unless the threads are throughly cleaned before using the loctite and even then, hand tightening would be inadquate.

Another common source of creaking is the interface between the chainrings and the crank spider. Use a little penetrating lube in that area and the creaks may disappear.

[jr59]

Athena has powershift levers and that could indeed improve shifting, if you don't mind one-cog at a time shifts to smaller cogs.

The powershift (escape) mechanism is less suceptible to shift cable friction problems.

I prefer the ultrashift, to get mutiple shifts to smaller cogs.

hmmm...Mine will go down 3 at a time!

[soulspinner]

About the BB cups. I've never had a creaking problem when I just greased the threads and torqued the cups to 35Nm. The loctite method is lame and can't really be followed, unless the threads are throughly cleaned before using the loctite and even then, hand tightening would be inadquate.

Another common source of creaking is the interface between the chainrings and the crank spider. Use a little penetrating lube in that area and the creaks may disappear.

Thanks Dave I will give the penetrating lube a shot. Thanks for the reply.

[thinpin]

hmmm...Mine will go down 3 at a time!
The original carbon "plated" Athena levers were ultrashift.

[Fixed]

The guys at the coffee shop will know
Cheers :)

[Tony T]

Thanks Dave I will give the penetrating lube a shot. Thanks for the reply.

I think you should use Loctite per the instructions

[Bob Loblaw]

I did that once. The creaking was god-awful. Now I use both Teflon tape and grease. Beautifully quiet, stays together till its time to take it apart.

BL

I think you should use Loctite per the instructions

[oldpotatoe]

About the BB cups. I've never had a creaking problem when I just greased the threads and torqued the cups to 35Nm. The loctite method is lame and can't really be followed, unless the threads are throughly cleaned before using the loctite and even then, hand tightening would be inadquate.

Another common source of creaking is the interface between the chainrings and the crank spider. Use a little penetrating lube in that area and the creaks may disappear.

Agree completely. Loctite some cups and you 'may' never get them again.

When I take rings off to clean, I always add a wee bit of grease onto the crank spider where the rings 'live' and also on the crank bolt threads..never loctite.

[sadiqgill]

I think Campagnolo Record is a better shifter--the rest is just a matter of aesthetics. I have had a few Chorus shifters do wierd things on me---like the front derailleur paddle butoon just going haywire and pushing way beyond the serrations. Anyone else have that happen?

[Black Dog]

I think Campagnolo Record is a better shifter--the rest is just a matter of aesthetics. I have had a few Chorus shifters do wierd things on me---like the front derailleur paddle butoon just going haywire and pushing way beyond the serrations. Anyone else have that happen?

Not possible. The Internals of the Chorus, Record and Super Record 11 speed shifters are exactly the same. Same parts coming off the same assembly line with zero differences and even the same part number. You may have had trouble but it is not because it is Chorus, just random chance.

[laupsi]

Not possible. The Internals of the Chorus, Record and Super Record 11 speed shifters are exactly the same. Same parts coming off the same assembly line with zero differences and even the same part number. You may have had trouble but it is not because it is Chorus, just random chance.

I know, I'm naive... so the price difference between the two is attributed to lighter parts on the exterior of the SR shifters, thats' it?

[AngryScientist]

I know, I'm naive... so the price difference between the two is attributed to lighter parts on the exterior of the SR shifters, thats' it?

more "speed holes" in the levers. :banana:

[laupsi]

more "speed holes" in the levers. :banana:

Right!

[Dave]

SR shifters have one titanium inner part, the piece the holds two small springs and the 2mm balls.

[Dave]

I think you should use Loctite per the instructions

The loctite method should not be used, unless it's modified to first remove all of the factory applied thread locking material. Even then, the cups should get a little torque applied to them, even if it's only 5Nm. No hand tightening.

The loctite method is really only suggested in the case where the BB can't easily be faced. Personally, I use feeler gages between the BB shell and cups to verify that the face runout does not exceed .004 inch. I've never had to face any of my frames.

[Black Dog]

I know, I'm naive... so the price difference between the two is attributed to lighter parts on the exterior of the SR shifters, thats' it?

Speed holes yes, red coloured graphics yes.

Some of the real difference is in the materials of the shift paddles. Chorus and Record is a sort of plastic composite and the SR are carbon.

If there is a Ti part in the guts of the SR internals then I stand corrected and I am sorry to give incorrect info. Non the less, the performance is the same.

[UKBROOKLYN]

I want to echo the earlier poster on functionality re Athena. If you use the Chorus levers with the Athena group (I do) you get the nice shiny Athena with all the same functionality, geometry of the three more expensive groups.

[firerescuefin]

http://www.r11.campagnolo.com/en/confronta/item_compare-11s-groups.jsp

[joep2517]

Thanks for that link. I'm working on a build and this is going to help me decide if I want Record on my bike.

[laupsi]

http://www.r11.campagnolo.com/en/confronta/item_compare-11s-groups.jsp

awesome comparison chart, thanks!

[Tony T]

The loctite method is really only suggested in the case where the BB can't easily be faced. Personally, I use feeler gages between the BB shell and cups to verify that the face runout does not exceed .004 inch. I've never had to face any of my frames.

I don't disagree, but this is from Campy's instructions for the 2008 Ultra-Torque installation: http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/7225447%20-%20Ultra%20torque-04-08.pdf

[thinpin]

http://www.r11.campagnolo.com/en/confronta/item_compare-11s-groups.jsp

I believe this comparison chart was correct when the first Athena 11 was released. It is now incorrect as Athena is currently "powershift" and there are considerable differences.

[UKBROOKLYN]

That echoes what I said about functionality re Chorus and Athena.. Just have to make sure you get Chorus levers for the multi shifting.. which is really great when you are double shifting one over and three down or up..

The Athena crank is Power Torque with the left side crank arm bolting on to a straight through axle as opposed to the two half axles in the upper level groups. But the listing is slightly wrong. Because the axle on my 2012 Athena crankset is hollow. (not stated on the list ) Apparently this results in a stiffer crank.