Unwritten cycling rules?

[Fivethumbs]

Is there some unwritten rule about latching on to someone after they pass you? I never do it to others because I hate when it's done to me. Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there. That would be weird right? If it's weird on foot why do so many people do it on bikes?

[flydhest]

Is there some unwritten rule about latching on to someone after they pass you? I never do it to others because I hate when it's done to me. Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there. That would be weird right? If it's weird on foot why do so many people do it on bikes?

. . . because drafting doesn't help on foot but it does on bikes?

My view is that if I want to ride with someone (which, in my book, includes drafting off them) I usually ask if they mind if I tag along. I ask if I am going to be screwing up their ride. If they are cool, then it's cool. I do this about once a year, usually when riding in a city I don't know.

I don't really care if people sit on my wheel, as long as they don't interfere with me. If they start talking and I am not in the mood, however, I'll tend to accelerate until we reach their verbal threshold.

Bottom line is that I don't jump on random people's wheels, but I understand why some "enthusiasts" like to do it, and if I don't want to talk with them, it isn't too hard for me to ignore them. Or drop them. If I am feeling like talking, though, I talk.

[beeatnik]

Bike Snob had something to say about this.

It doesn't bother me so much but I try not to do it. A guy drafted me once for about 10 miles. After we reached the end of the bike path/trail, he said he was 55, wouldn't have been able to average 20mph on his own and graciously declared that I should enjoy my youth...hahaha. There was a 15mph headwind that morning and we were riding upstream. I tried to drop him in a few sections but he held my wheel the whole way. Props to him.

Last week on the climb up to Baldy, I rode behind two guys for about a mile. I felt a little awkward but it was a climb and we were all riding tempo. Also, didn't feel like putting in the extra energy to go around them.

[ClutchCargo]

here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=91210&highlight=wheelsucking

[martinrjensen]

I have to start by saying that your analogy doesn't work, unless you can draft someone walking. I really think it depends on the situation. I do it sometimes but only for short periods of time and usually if it's unsafe to pass. If I'm gonna sit there for more then a minute, I announce myself so they know I'm there. Never had a problem with someone doing that if they let me know.
What I don't much care for is turning around expecting to see air, and staring into someones face about 3 or 4 ft away, that spooks me a bit.

So maybe what I consider acceptable is not what you are talking about? I think if someone came up and just sat on my wheel without letting me know and doing it for a long time without sharing the pull then yes, I wouldn't like it very much. It's just not friendly.Is there some unwritten rule about latching on to someone after they pass you? I never do it to others because I hate when it's done to me. Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there. That would be weird right? If it's weird on foot why do so many people do it on bikes?

[christian]

Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there.This happens to me ALL THE TIME. It is starting to freak me out.

[PQJ]

Is there some unwritten rule about latching on to someone after they pass you? I never do it to others because I hate when it's done to me. Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there. That would be weird right? If it's weird on foot why do so many people do it on bikes?

Most definitely. If you want to sit on someone's wheel, ride up beside them and ask if they mind. If they don't, hop on; if they do, leave them be. There's both a courtesy component and a safety component.

Just the other day I was having an easy spin, enjoying being by myself in the beautiful weather. I went by a fred. I was doing around 20mph and focused on keeping my cadence at 105-110. Said fred was going less than 18mph. A few minutes later, I sensed some huffing and puffing and a generally negative energy behind me. Lo and behold, there was fred. Wanting specifically to be by myself, I picked it up a bit to see if fred would drop off. He didn't. So I picked it up some more. But fred, being fred, wanted to show me how he could hang with me, and he was still there. Wanting to remain true to my original intent for the ride (ride slow, spin fast, have fun), I slowed down and let fred pass by. But only for a bit, since I was miffed. I rode up beside him, and politely let him know that what he did was impolite. Needless to say, fred didn't like hearing this and we proceeded to have some words. No amount of explaining to fred why it was in fred's interest to listen to me (at best, I don't know you're there, eject a snot rocket, and it hits you; at worst, I don't know you're there, slow down a bit, your front tires goes into my rear tire, 99 times out of a 100 you go down, I don't) was getting through to fred. So I left him with a "eff you asshole" and "you must have a really small dick", and slowed down. Fred still wanted to show off so he slowed down, blew by me, and blew up a half mile later.

[Wilkinson4]

Well, what I usually do is ride along side with them and ask if it is ok if I hang back for awhile. Some times they are just stronger riders but some times I may be just puttering about and they had someone to chase so at the end we may just take a few turns until we go are own way. I don't think anybody has ever said no. A few weeks ago I was on the fixed gear, I knew someone was behind me so I intentionally slowed to let them pass, I wished them a good ride as they went by w/o saying anything. Then, I let him get about 20 meters ahead and then I just matched his pace. The funny thing was this guy was in a full kit, Specialized carbon something, and would look back almost every min to see how much time he had put into me:D

Meh.

mIKE

[Joachim]

Most definitely. If you want to sit on someone's wheel, ride up beside them and ask if they mind. If they don't, hop on; if they do, leave them be. There's both a courtesy component and a safety component.

I completely agree with this. I think its rude to stay silent on someone's wheel. It often happens to me and I usually give them 5 or so minutes to acknowledge that they are there and ask if I mind. If they don't, I politely mention that its good manners to make known that they are on my wheel. And if you want to race me, pin on a number and I'll see you at the races.

[MattTuck]

I completely agree with this. I think its rude to stay silent on someone's wheel. It often happens to me and I usually give them 5 or so minutes to acknowledge that they are there and ask if I mind. If they don't, I politely mention that its good manners to make known that they are on my wheel.

I just ride at every pot hole, and swerve at the last minute ;)

[Jaq]

I don't draft on strangers because... they're strangers. I just don't know how they'll react to things, if they're sharp-eyed and can point stuff out, if they can keep up the pace, etc.

A while back, I was riding up a long flat hill and came up behind a guy. There wasn't enough room (with traffic) to safely get around him, so I hung back about three bike lengths. Even so, at stop sign, he started screaming (and I do mean screaming) about being on his wheel.

So I don't draft on strangers. I plug it into my risk vs. reward calculator and it comes up negative. But my calculator is my own.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . if the person lets me know they are there and is willing to take their turn at a pull.

BBD

[flydhest]

. . . if the person lets me know they are there and is willing to take their turn at a pull.

BBD

Love you Dave, but I don't get that last part. Why would I want some stranger to take a turn? If I am out riding, then I am out riding. If someone is sitting on my wheel and they just want to sit there and not get in the way, fine with me. Why would I want them to take a pull? I in general will not sit on a stranger's wheel until I figure out if they are safe. Much rather have them in back than in front.

[Fivethumbs]

Drafting? Really? Are there people who go out for a ride looking to find someone to draft off of? I can't speak for everyone, but when I go out for a ride I want to get a good work out. I make it a point to NOT draft off anyone because it's only going to defeat the purpose for being on the bike in the first place.

Also, it happens to me most often on climbs so I think its something else. I would not mind If someone just said, "Hey, I like your pace, mind if I ride along? I would say, '"Sure". They never do, they just all of a sudden are there.

[bigbill]

It never really bothered me that much until I was in San Diego. I would do hard rides from Coronado to IB and onwards towards the border. On the way back, I'd jump on the bike path and cruise along at 16-17 mph into the wind. Typically around a mile in, someone would jump on my wheel to get out of headwind. If they said something, that was great but I'd normally tell them I'm riding alone with no particular pace and to stay alert. Usually that would get them off my wheel or at least open a gap. For me, the cardinal sin was to draft for a while and then pass me and slow down so I had to pass them again. At that point I'd either stop or accelerate as I pass them so they couldn't jump back on.

[MattTuck]

Ride with a helmet mirror. There are never any surprises coming from the rear... I don't care if it is nerdy.

[crownjewelwl]

here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=91210&highlight=wheelsucking

way to dig up my rant!

i've changed my mind though...i LOVE wheelsuckers now...the forum has shown me the light

[Fixed]

Why would you want to draft a stranger of questionable skill ?
You are riding by yourself
Do you need a playmate ?
Let them know you are there
Imho:)Cheers

[MorganColeman]

We get a lot of that where I live. It usually doesn't bother me, and most of the time it happens during my commute. I think what's most frustrating is that it forces me into proper pace line etiquette. At 6:00 am, I haven't had my coffee yet. I don't want to point out the glass, hold a perfect line, and use all of the other hand signals that ensure a smooth train. Basically, when you're at the front of a pace line, you take on a certain responsibility. There are times when you just want to ride your bike and not worry about the guy behind you.

Morgan

[BumbleBeeDave]

Love you Dave, but I don't get that last part. Why would I want some stranger to take a turn? If I am out riding, then I am out riding. If someone is sitting on my wheel and they just want to sit there and not get in the way, fine with me. Why would I want them to take a pull? I in general will not sit on a stranger's wheel until I figure out if they are safe. Much rather have them in back than in front.

If they're suckin' my wheel I figure they are drafting. I would want them to also share the load. But on second thought you do have a point--I'd also want to at least exchange a few words and try to get some sense of whether they may know what they are doing. If they're totally incompetent, then I wouldn't want them there.

BBD

[thashicray]

Ah, the golden rule..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

[Earl Gray]

I take the opportunity to show them how to ride smooth and straight.

If I have no specific destination I'll even ask them where they are going and pull them there.

[Tom]

It doesn't happen often but when it does I don't like it. It's intrusive and rude to latch on to somebody without acknowledging them and asking if it is OK. It's that simple. If they want to be left the hell alone, respect it.

[benb]

If someone gets terribly bothered by a wheel sucker I often think it has something to do with wounded pride.. you got caught. If someone catches you, and now they're hanging out in your draft, of course you're going to have trouble riding them off your wheel. Unless you're doing a real recovery ride they're faster then you or they wouldn't have caught you on the open road.

It doesn't happen very often that I get caught, I am always catching people, and I generally don't hang around long, or I stay back.. maybe I just don't ride the same routes as others, or I ride routes that faster people don't ride. But it doesn't bug me if I get caught. 99% of the risk is for the person doing the drafting.. I have had more then once occasion where someone drafting me hit me and they crashed and I did not.. (had to get through the "crash 5s", etc..) I am MUCH less likely to want to follow someone who I don't know because then I'm the one in back who is taking the risk. If I'm fit most people I'd have any interest in working with would be pretty smooth though..

My behavior depends on where I am.. greater boston area where I do most of my riding I am not chatty.. not that likely to strike up a conversation & offer to work together. But if I get to ride in NH or VT where I am likely to see 0 other cyclists even if I ride all day I'm going to be pretty damn friendly if I come across another serious cyclist going the same way.

This is way way way more likely to happen if you ride on MUTs.. It's too dangerous for fast people to actually go fast on a busy MUT and they are generally flat as a pancake so speeds get equalized and someone who is slow, new, or rude is much more likely to be able to suck your wheel when you don't want company. So stay off the MUT if you don't like someone following you.

[Fixed]

There is drafting and then there is drafting :eek:
You don't have to be right on their wheel to get a lift
Cheers :)

[witcombusa]

When I realise they are there, I simply stop pedaling and coast until they move along....If I wanted company, I'd have gone riding with a friend! :no:

[Grant McLean]

I've been riding for about 30 years, and i'd guess 1 in 1,000 people would
actually ask or make any kind of verbal contact before wheelsucking.
Anyone who says 'hey' gets a quick conversation with me, the ones who
apparently can't speak I just drop.

I don't ride with people I don't know, it's just not something I do. My experience
is that too many 'biker' yahoos can't ride close to another cyclist safely.
I'll slow to get them off my wheel, let them pass, then resume my pace
usually pass them a minute later when they can't latch on. The worst
is when you catch someone, and they speed up, and keep speeding up,
like they're trying to shake you, but eventually they blow up, problem solved.

For some reason, good strong riders don't wheelsuck, go figure.

-g

[palincss]

My view is that if I want to ride with someone (which, in my book, includes drafting off them) I usually ask if they mind if I tag along. I ask if I am going to be screwing up their ride. If they are cool, then it's cool. I do this about once a year, usually when riding in a city I don't know.


So you're OK with having the responsibility for calling out road obstacles, and avoiding sudden braking, and everything else that goes along with riding in a pace line, thrust upon you by some stranger you didn't invite to grab your wheel, as long as they keep quiet?

[nighthawk]

Geesh.. I feel like I ride pretty often, and this has never happened to me.

If it does, i'll use the opportunity to try out another first... peeing while riding.

That should shake 'em.

[Fixed]

That reminds me of the haircut
The barber ask how do you want it cut ?
Customer responds ... ..in silence
Cheers

[tsarpepe]

There seem to be two conversations going on here. One is about people drafting off you. The other one is about pricked egos that can't stand being caught and have to prove they can ride at least at the same speed. If I definitely knew that the person is doing the former, I don't mind one bit. What I hate is when I know or suspect the latter.

[Grant McLean]

Almost forgot to post the photo of some bad wheelsucking from today's ride:

-g

[rugbysecondrow]

Geesh.. I feel like I ride pretty often, and this has never happened to me.

If it does, i'll use the opportunity to try out another first... peeing while riding.

That should shake 'em.


Me neither, maybe that means I go too slow. If it does, I will just stand up, wave my hand behind my arse and apologize loudly. Watch, that will be the time Gweneth Paltrow or somebody hot as hell is follow me. :eek:

[Bradford]

I just don't get the anger.

If someone rides up on my wheel, sits there or passes, I don't care. I ride my ride and don't worry about it.

Last year on Ride the Rockies, I had a bunch of people grab my wheel and hang on for dear life in some brutal winds, I was happy to help. It actually made me feel really good about myself that I could help people, because I know sometimes ducking out of the wind is a huge help for me.

[flydhest]

So you're OK with having the responsibility for calling out road obstacles, and avoiding sudden braking, and everything else that goes along with riding in a pace line, thrust upon you by some stranger you didn't invite to grab your wheel, as long as they keep quiet?

So, I see your point somewhat, which is why if I am going to draft off someone, I talk to them first and make sure they are cool with it. When I am in front, I don't worry much.

Indeed, I don't believe that responsibility you are talking about accrues to the person who gets latched on to. Somebody dumb enough to draft off a stranger takes on that responsibility. As a result, I tend not to do it. That said, anyone would be safe on my wheel. I avoid obstacles smoothly and easily and don't make sudden stops. Nevertheless, if I am in front, they are the one who will go down, not me.

My perspective is informed by my formative years in cycling. Way back in grad school (I don't care to think how long ago, my team coach (Bob . . . we had a ride we called "the Bob" in his honor) was fond of saying "if there is an obstacle in the road that can throw you from your bike, you should be able to see it a quarter of a mile up the road and ride around it. If you can't see it from a quarter of a mile away, you should be able to RIDE RIGHT OVER IT!" We all suggested decaf to Bob.

Seriously, though, if someone uninvited sits on my wheel, I feel no obligation. I do tend to miss potholes and such, but I tend to want people NOT to point out crap to me when I am on their wheel. I feel no need to do it for strangers. Maybe when I have decided to ride with newbies or if I am trying to be accommodating to people I am newly riding with, but . . . nah, don't feel any requirement.

My general view, I considered having "PSFA" on the shop jerseys of the shop I led the shop ride for. Pay some attention. Of course, that is not practicable for a shop ride with a range of riders and a lot of riders, but it is a standard to aspire to.

[cfox]

Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there.

This happens to me ALL THE TIME. It is starting to freak me out.

maybe you have a cute a$$

[2LeftCleats]

A related issue is cruising at a steady speed and a rider comes up behind, usually without warning, scoots around and then about 20 yards ahead slows to the same speed. That gets awkward. I think it comes down to courtesy and ego. If you want to ride with me, I'm usually ok with that. Let me know you're there. Freaks me out to suddenly feel someone there. If you want to demonstrate that you're a stronger rider, that's cool too. Just keep going.

[JonB]

...at stop sign, he started screaming (and I do mean screaming) about being on his wheel.


If that happens again get out the smart phone, video record the rant and post it on YouTube. I'm guessing it was quite amusing.

[fiataccompli]

I don't draft people I don't know in random situations like this. Sometimes, in a large, organized ride where a working paceline has developed I do/have, but that's a different deal. I don't want a random person latching on to my wheel either...it's my ride, but if I'm going to be sitting quietly at the beach or something I dont' want some random stranger pulling up a blanket next to me either, y'know.

I have had the situation when out of town (flat land with headwinds that kills this hillbilly) where I have come across a group of folks obviously riding in a paceline together and I've said hi and asked if I could hop on the rear a bit. After a friendly exchange I dropped on to the back and was able to enjoy a snack while resting a bit against a pretty brutal headwind. Within a mile or so, I was good to go and it was clear the group was riding a little slower than i wanted to ride (even with the wind) so I bit them a nice day/ride and took off.

[tsarpepe]

The philosophical question that emerges from this thread is: "Why is every other cyclist on the road a stranger?"

[soulspinner]

Snot rocket :p

[Tony T]

What I find annoying is when someone speeds up to pass me and then immediately slows down, so now I either have to pass him, slow down and put distance between us, or stay with him and have him do the work.

[William]

Insert pump here....

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4057/4586043762_75143c735d_z.jpg






;)

William

[BobC]

Hmmmmm, I guess I have a different take on this. If someone wants to sit on, it is cool with me. Why try to get someone riding behind upset or (worse) hurt by not avoiding potholes & such?

I always ride in my team kit. As such I am always representing my team, my teammates and my sponsors when riding. The more gracious & helpful I can be on a ride, the better.

[Jaq]

If that happens again get out the smart phone, video record the rant and post it on YouTube. I'm guessing it was quite amusing.

It was one of the most memorable moments in the last few years. He was a little older, a little chunky, and stood about 5' 6". His bike was something carbon and perfectly matched his kit, which was all Castelli; I remember thinking "wow. It's like Grranimals for bikes."

But oh, the screaming. It was operatic in volume, Italian in accent, punctuated with spittle and accompanied with enough gestures for Beethoven's 9th. I believe the little man was touched; the more I smiled, the more outrageous became his performance. And all this in less time than it took for the light to change. When it finally did, I called him "Il Duce," told him to relax, and took off like a bat outta hell, afraid for my very life.

[AgilisMerlin]

if at the last moment you cannot avoid it, ride straight through it.

everyone around you will appreciate this :D

this was told to me when i began group rides

[fuzzalow]

Don't really care if someone cozies into my draft but would have preferred the comaraderie and courtesy of a greeting first. I never alter the purpose or pace of my ride nor do I point out objects in the road. If they ride in my wheel track they won't plow road debris anyway.

I am not the least bit concerned as to what happenstance rider rides, wears or his adherence to the nuances, secret signs, facial ticks and folklore codification of elitist cycist perceived ettiquette. General roadway safety is all I require as long as happenstance is the trailing rider.

Out there on the bike, we are all comrades.

[zap]

As I posted several times, I have no problem if someone drafts behind me and I really don't expect them to ask.

Christ, one ride long ago in Texas we (riding tandem) had pro's sit on our back wheel without asking. It's cool and we were happy to entertain.

I'm secure in my riding and have much I can teach by demonstrating. The responsibility of pulling for miles safely is also not that big of a deal.

Now, I will not draft anyone I don't know. Usually happens with triathlete's. If we are going at the same speed I hang back 10 yards or so and wait for the next climb.

[Tom]

I'll make it simple. I don't give a damn who can outride me on any given day. Just as I feel nothing about catching someone up the road. Maybe I'm only doing 100 minutes. How do I know they're not doing 100 miles? If I want to race I'll pin a number on. Only then will we know who's really a faster rider, no?

Here's the thing. If someone's out riding by themselves, maybe they want to ride by themselves. Find out. Respect them. If they want company and you want company, hang out together. If they don't, go your own way. If you think that's stupid maybe I should just come over to your house uninvited, sit on your couch and demand you serve me food while I hog the remote.

[cmg]

doesn't bother me when someone does it to me and i'll do it to some else when they ride by. there is no rule. i'll say hello if they notice and say thanks when i drop off. someone got on my wheel going into town yesterday and i rode on somebodies wheel on my return trip. i said thanks for the pull but i don't they heard me over the winds howl. the only rule is not crashing into them.

[Fixed]

take it from me unannounced drafting is rude :::no:
cheers :bike:

[54ny77]

snot blow..."oh, sorry, didn't see you back there."

:bike:

[christian]

I'd never draft without an introduction and asking if they mind. But I don't really mind if someone sits on my wheel, so long as they appear to be a safe rider.

[Ti Designs]

Where did y'all learn about drafting and paceline riding?

Laws of physics trump personal, unwritten rules. Two rules of physics: A rider at speed punches a hole in the wind, and humans have depressingly little power. If there's something that allows me to use 30% less energy, I'm there.

There is no substitute for learning how to ride - learning how to draft is part of that. If you think that drafting means only seeing the person in front of you, you're a danger to yourself and all who ride near you. Riders on bikes aren't walls that you can't see around and most of the riders who are fast enough to be in the paceline tend to be kinda skinny. If you're not looking past the rider(s) in front of you, you've given yourself a second and a half reaction delay on the person in front of you. That means you're either going to run into them or take the person behind you down, or both.

A rider within a paceline is responsible for their own safety, in taking on that they are sharing the responsibility for the safety of the group. That sometimes means you need to identify the bad riders and put them in a position where they can't do any harm. The first skill to learn is observation (yeh, it's a cycling skill). When I bring new riders into group rides their first 15 minutes is sitting on the back observing - the part about taking pulls comes far later, everybody always puts far too much emphasis on that part. before you can be an active part of a paceline you need to know and understand how other riders will react. You may notice a few riders with their fingers always on the brake levers - I make it a point to filter those people to the back of any paceline. You may notice a rider who swerves around things on the road. This is where good handling skills come in, I'll pull up right next to them and just stay there (yeh, I'm that asshole).

My suggestion for leaning how to ride in a paceline is to forget your pride and ego and go ride with a group that's better and faster than you are. Forget about taking pulls, that's not going to happen for a while. Learn how to sit on the back and ticket punch. Watch how smooth a good group is, and how it stays together. In contrast, watch a group of riders who don't know what they're doing and it's like watching a battle going on where they're all trying to drop everyone else. If your goal is speed or a better workout, the answer is the fastest average speed without dropping people. Think about this, if you have 4 riders, 3 of them can take 20 second pulls, one of them ticket punches on the hills and takes 10 second pulls on the flats. You're one of the stronger riders taking 20 second pulls, you could glue the weak guy on the front before a hill and drop 'em like a bad habit, but then on the flats your recovery time goes from 45 seconds to 40 seconds, and you've gained nothing. People make a lot of stupid decisions because of ego...


Lastly, if you think you're getting faster or fitter by riding by yourself and always going as hard as you can, you're an idiot.

[benitosan1972]

I'm not a fan of strangers drafting me esp when unannounced, silent, and no asking. I'm working the hills/headwind/etc for myself. On group rides, sure I'll do it, and I do. But when out by myself, I feel "do your own work."

Having someone on my wheel shifts my focus to their presence/speed/etc. I'm enjoying & working my ride, go do your own. I don't know you, and proximity is personal space even out in the wild blue yonder. Just me, but I don't like wheelsuckers.

*if you're a cute girl and want to talk to me, disregard above rant ;)
**I usually slow down and pull off to let wheelsuckers pass me so I can ride in peace
***I don't like drivers tailgating me either, and that's what it feels like, but just me

[Keith A]

Funny this subject came up as this happened to me just recently. Our Saturday morning group had been rained out, but by the afternoon it had cleared and I wanted to get some miles in. As I was nearing the end of my ride after being out for a couple of hours, I saw a cyclist up ahead and could see that I was slowly catching up to him. When I got close enough, I saw that his pace was couple mph's slower than me. So I rode past him, said hello and then went on my way. Well he decided to hop on my wheel, which was fine since there was a very stiff headwind and I'm sure he appreciated the draft.

As I was approaching the end of this road, I wanted to pick up the pace and push myself a little...and my latchee decided to stay on my wheel. At this point, I had pulled at a solid pace for 4-5 miles directly into a strong headwind and when I backed off my accelerated pace to recover for a moment before the upcoming intersection, Mr. Fred comes around me and acts like he just won the final stage of the TdF. I decided that which ever direction he went at the intersection, I was going the opposite way.

[54ny77]

Yes, this is the wheelsucking exception #1.

Exception #2 is: see #1.



*if you're a cute girl and want to talk to me, disregard above rant ;)

[Seramount]

guess none of the complainers have brakes on their bikes...

if they did, they could squeeze a lever, bleed off some speed, and let the offending wheelsucker go on by.

you can ride my wheel if you like...not that big of a deal.

but, if I don't want you there I have options to alter the situation. I can speed up, slow down, stop, take another route...it's not like I'm being held hostage.

[slidey]

If you come across a rider,
1. Training - never get on their wheel...he/she'll hate you for it and you'll be covered in their snot pretty soon

2. Commuting - by all means hop on if you want to go a tad faster. Offer to do a rotation with a smile, and have a good time.

Is there some unwritten rule about latching on to someone after they pass you? I never do it to others because I hate when it's done to me. Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there. That would be weird right? If it's weird on foot why do so many people do it on bikes?

[FlashUNC]

Lastly, if you think you're getting faster or fitter by riding by yourself and always going as hard as you can, you're an idiot.

+1.

I have a buddy obsessed with riding as hard as he can from the word go, thinking this is the only way to improve his fitness. He has a tenuous grasp on what pacelines can accomplish when working properly, and usually detonates around mile 20.

We don't ride together much.

[JohnHemlock]

Where do you people live that so many randoms just ride up and get on your wheel? That has never happened to me outside of a couple mass rides like fondos.

I could care less if someone rides up and wants to suck my wheel. Or my nectar nozzle, for that matter. I just ignore them and turn up the Social Distortion on my iPod (gasp)!!

[Fixed]

If you come across a rider,
1. Training - never get on their wheel...he/she'll hate you for it and you'll be covered in their snot pretty soon

2. Commuting - by all means hop on if you want to go a tad faster. Offer to do a rotation with a smile, and have a good time.
good point
Commuting is the exception IMHO when the numbers are high and the speeds low
Cheers.

[beeatnik]

+1.

I have a buddy obsessed with riding as hard as he can from the word go, thinking this is the only way to improve his fitness. He has a tenuous grasp on what pacelines can accomplish when working properly, and usually detonates around mile 20.

We don't ride together much.

Does he have 15+ pages of KOMs on Strava like one of my buddies?

This guy has the strava app on his phone and basically rolls at a 13mph average until he gets a segment notification. Then he hammers like a madman for the length of the segment. Since he's also created hundreds of segments in mid-city LA and near USC (where he's employed) he ends up hammering for 90% of his rides. Short story long, he tried to do a century last week (20mph average), got dropped at mile 20, and ran out of gas at mile 80. This year he's done 4000 miles and taken one day off.

[Ti Designs]

Strava: A smart phone app and web based database that turns otherwise intelligent cyclists into idiots.

[FlashUNC]

Does he have 15+ pages of KOMs on Strava like one of my buddies?

This guy has the strava app on his phone and basically rolls at a 13mph average until he gets a segment notification. Then he hammers like a madman for the length of the segment. Since he's also created hundreds of segments in mid-city LA and near USC (where he's employed) he ends up hammering for 90% of his rides. Short story long, he tried to do a century last week (20mph average), got dropped at mile 20, and ran out of gas at mile 80. This year he's done 4000 miles and taken one day off.

He has gotten totally lost in the Strava black hole. I use it just to follow other folks rides and find routes I might not otherwise know about. And the iPhone goes firmly in the back pocket while its running, so I'm not tempted to look at it. I ditched computers on my bars for that very reason. All I did was stare at the stupid number and not, yanno, enjoy where I was riding.

I generally roll along at a 13mph average because I'm fat.

[HenryA]

I think Ti Designs has it pretty well nailed as to riding in a group.

But for just random pick-up-on-the-road-happenstance-meetings I use a highly secret technique that I will now share with you all.

Whether overtaking or being overtaken, I pause and talk to the other rider(s). :D

For the real goof balls this messes with their head. The nice people usually speak back. Its amazing I tell you! AMAZING!!

I did this the other day to a little stocky guy with earbuds installed, riding a PRC carbon molded crap bike who was grinding at about 40-50 cadence and just wrenching the cranks around. But he had cool **** on - all black. ;>) I ride up beside him, speak to him and his response to my speaking complete English words made into a sentence was a dull grunt. I rode on by and of course he latched on. Then I let him pass me, then rode on by again. A few more cycles of this and he rode off about 50 yds and blew. Waahhaaaa!!

The other part is never ride behind anyone with tri-bars or those geeky ass water bottle holders up behind the seat. Otherwise I think I can usually spot a decent rider as I come upon them. Watching for a short while gives me an idea if they can hold a line and ride smoothly.

[flydhest]

strava: A smart phone app and web based database that turns otherwise intelligent cyclists into idiots.

+1

[christian]

The other part is never ride behind anyone with tri-bars or those geeky ass water bottle holders up behind the seat.Amen. No tailgating antler bikes.

[AgilisMerlin]

it takes

time
time
time

learning not to ride in the rooster tail

[fiataccompli]

I always say hello when overtaking another cyclist..and usually stay several bike lengths back if i need to wait for a safe break in traffic or something like that. In fact, come to think of it, even if i'm riding several mph faster i usually pass at a pace that affords an opportunity to give a greeting (or at least a warning im there if that is appropriate )have and then ease backbto whatever pace im riding.

Apparently i have a strava acct that i have uploaded something to at some point because someone mentioned beating my time somewhere the other day. I use a garmin 705 that i move fromeverything bike to bike. I usually have it beckoning me to keep a certain pace and on common routes i have a good feel for "sector times" to pace myself ...but not blowing up..

[Fixed]

A long time ago my wife would drive our van while my son and I drafted off it
On a deserted county road. He was state champ one year
That was fun and a good memory :)
Cheers

[tch]

I think Ti Designs has it pretty well nailed as to riding in a group.

But for just random pick-up-on-the-road-happenstance-meetings I use a highly secret technique that I will now share with you all.

Whether overtaking or being overtaken, I pause and talk to the other rider(s). :D

For the real goof balls this messes with their head. The nice people usually speak back. Its amazing I tell you! AMAZING!!


+1

I dunno; it's never been much of a problem for me -- one way or the other. But especially when overtaking, I always pause to say "hi".
I would never sit on someone without asking. As someone else said, it's like inviting yourself into his/her house and plopping down on the couch.

[Bob Loblaw]

To each his own, but personally it doesn't really bother me when someone wants to draft off me while on a training ride. I take it as a compliment, like he (or she) is saying "You are a G-D express train, and it's all I my feeble legs can manage to grovel back here on your wheel and bask in the glow of your awesomeness."

Races and group rides are another matter. Wheel suckers can expect to get shaken.

BL


I would never sit on someone without asking. As someone else said, it's like inviting yourself into his/her house and plopping down on the couch.

[Dekonick]

I normally ride when no one else is out - daytime, during the work week...

I could care less if someone latches... or if I get passed... I have nothing to prove but do like meeting other cyclists... pass and expect a conversation...

:)

Who cares? If someone is faster, or slower, does it matter? Want to prove a point? Then race... otherwise just enjoy the bike. Meet some people... or not...

One thing I can say for certain - I never have this **** happen when I run. Runners don't latch, and they don't talk to strangers when running. Why is the bike so different?

No answer here... anyone know why?

[kramnnim]

Originally Posted by Fivethumbs
Imagine if you were walking down the street and you passed someone who was walking slower, then all of a sudden they start walking right behind you at your pace and continue to stay there.

This happens to me ALL THE TIME. It is starting to freak me out.

Ghosting! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjn5QBfAUQ

[cfox]

Strava: A smart phone app and web based database that turns otherwise intelligent cyclists into idiots.

Strava can be sorta fun, but stories like above prove it's already gone off the rails. I'm sure by now there are hyper-competitive goofballs driving their cars up steep climbs at 16mph with their strava on so they can crush the KOM. People are willing to dope for t-ball (amateur racing), so nothing would surprise me.

[cnighbor1]

I tail gate when riding with fellow club members on posted rides.
But when out by myself has i come up on another cyclist i stay on his tail just a brief moment till i decide to pass or not.If not passing i drop back has we each don't know the oters riding style. or if he even wants some back there who could cause a fall by either one. Andwhen I ride by myself i will weave in or out to avoid a pothole, etc. Not great for someone on your tail. Normally ride straigth and when moving in or out take a gradual movement just in cast a car or bicyclist passing
Charles Nighbor

[reptarlazer]

I was riding up the la river trail last week and some guy sat on my rear wheel for nearly ten miles. I didn't even realize he was back there until I sat up to take a drink of water and relax and he had to swerve to avoid a spill.
I don't mind someone sitting in, so long as they don't half wheel, and they make it known that they're back there.

[EDS]

To each his own, but personally it doesn't really bother me when someone wants to draft off me while on a training ride. I take it as a compliment, like he (or she) is saying "You are a G-D express train, and it's all I my feeble legs can manage to grovel back here on your wheel and bask in the glow of your awesomeness."

Races and group rides are another matter. Wheel suckers can expect to get shaken.

BL

I agree with this. Maybe it is because there is an abundance of cyclists here, but I am used to passing and being passed.

[Jaq]

Had a great time yesterday riding a bike path to the ocean. About 7 miles long, late-afternoon headwind made worse by the fact that it's funneled up a concrete river, so I got down on the drops and start grinding.

I pass this guy on a fixie, go a couple hundred yards and have to pass someone else, glance back to make sure I'm good to swing out, and there's the guy on my wheel. I'm literally thinking about this thread when I figure "meh; if I gotta drag some guy half my age to the ocean, more power to me."

Finally, though, he decides to take a turn pulling - for all of about a minute - and we go like that, me pulling for 2, him pulling for 1, out to the sea.

He's sorta squirrelly at first, tends to bob back and forth a little more since he's on a true fixie, but on his 3rd or 4th pull, he starts to straighten out his line and starts using signals. It was actually quite a lot of fun, but as I'm pulling on the last stretch, I glance back and he's gone; he'd veered off on an intersection.

I'm sure it was because he just couldn't handle the pain, and had nothing to do with the three cute college girls on beach cruisers.

[rain dogs]

Yes... I'm firmly in the "I don't like it" group.

I don't really understand the idea that if you don't like it, it's because you ego got hurt that you got caught. I don't see it that way at all. Catch me and pass me... I'm riding, not racing. If Person X is strong enough to not only ride my speed, but also catch me, then I know damn well they are strong enough to ride right by me.

But they shouldn't blow themselves up reaching for my draft so I can pull their huffing and puffing P.I.T.A. home. I'm no ones donkey unless I want to be. And I really don't want to pull over and let them pass, because inevitably I will catch them shortly and the whole mess starts again. All that makes my ride more dangerous/annoying. If they're stronger, good on 'em, then keep riding right past.

BUT, normally, if I get caught it's at a traffic light, and I've likely already said hi to you, so don't pretend to be my silent riding buddy, I didn't say "Hi" to adopt a shadow, I did it to be social... if you don't want social, then ride alone.

Simple in my mind, but every so often.....

[lhuerta]

Interesting how this same topic gets resurrected into a new thread every six months or so (see: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=91210&page=6&pp=15).

I will repeat what I have said before on this topic in hopes that my minority opinion, in concert with that of a few other voices I have read in this thread, might inform folks on proper "etiquette"...which in this case there is a reason there is no etiquette or unspoken rule.

In my over 30 years of cycling I have NEVER been concerned, surprised or bothered, by someone "sneaking" up behind me and sharing "my" airspace. Simply put, if you feel you somehow OWN the pocket of air behind you then you are missing the point of cycling. If you are surprised by someone suddenly behind you then you are simply not paying attention. I can always tell when someone is behind me (I don't wear headphones and I don't ride in the dark) so my eyes and ears are always my first alert. If someone decides to stick with me, I am usually the one (not the other way around) who initiates verbal or non-verbal communication, inviting them to join me (if I feel like conversing).

My point is that if you are out on the road and your intention is to RIDE, then RIDE! Don't search for reasons to defile others for not following some misguided "etiquette", instead learn to share with others the amazing freedom and enjoyment that cycling affords us.

I might sound like a retro-grouch traditionalist, but there are some practices in cycling that I hope don't get co-opted by the over zealous and misinformed "etiquette" patrol promoted by inexperienced cyclists.

Happy riding everyone!
Lou

[54ny77]

Rule 1: stay on bike when riding in a straight line.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z113/jpmz06/Bike/1X1E8954.jpg