The dirty little secret about Carbon

[rockdude]

As many of you know I am a bike whore. I always have 10+ bike on hand and go through another 10+ high-end bikes each year. If there is considerable buss on a bike, I will give it a shot. I must admit I am a Ti guy but have had my fair share of top of the line carbon bikes. I judge a bike on fit, handling and ride quality.

The gripe- monocoque carbon bikes have never met my expectations on ride quality. They are overly stiff, no damping, and feel like riding plastic. On the other hand, tube on tube carbon construction can be fantastic, smooth, lively, and damp. Every time I buy a monocoque bike I swear I will not buy another, the only advantage I can see in them is weight.

So, my main road race bike is a Spectrum with a Woundup fork. I have never been a big fan of the look or weight of the Woundup but the ride quality has been very good. Well, I bought a Enve to save 200 grams and to have a more atheistic look. I have had many edge/enve forks and have liked all of them. Last week, I change out the forks and took the Spectrum out and it was like riding a different bike. That smooth, damp, yet stiff front-end was gone. The ride quality had dropped dramatically. Compaired to the woundup the enve felt like plastic. Enve=monocoque, Woundup= tube.

Again, monocoque construction sux campaired to tube construction. I know not all are going to agree, but if you have had a Parlee, Crumpton, Calfee etc... you know what I am talking about.

[bobswire]

What is a guy to think? Reading your "review" then reading this one http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=107634 ?

BTW I think Wound Ups on Ti frames are the best.

[MattTuck]

Not exactly sure I understand your post. Don't Parlee's have a monocoque fork?

[EDS]

As many of you know I am a bike whore. I always have 10+ bike on hand and go through another 10+ high-end bikes each year. If there is considerable buss on a bike, I will give it a shot. I must admit I am a Ti guy but have had my fair share of top of the line carbon bikes. I judge a bike on fit, handling and ride quality.

The gripe- monocoque carbon bikes have never met my expectations on ride quality. They are overly stiff, no damping, and feel like riding plastic. On the other hand, tube on tube carbon construction can be fantastics, smooth, lively, and damp. Every time I buy a monocoque bike I swear I will not buy another, the only advantage I can see in them is weight.

So, my main road race bike is a Spectrum with a Woundup fork. I have never been a big fan of the look or weight of the Woundup but the ride quality has been very good. Well, I bought a Enve to save 200 grams and to have a more atheistic look. I have had many edge/enve forks and have liked all of them. Last week, I change out the forks and took the Spectrum out and it was like riding a different bike. That smooth, damp, yet stiff front-end was gone. The ride quality had dropped dramatically. Compaired to the woundup the enve felt like plastic. Enve=monocoque, Woundup= tube.

Again, monocoque construction sux campaired to tube construction. I know not all are going to agree, but if you have had a Parlee, Crumpton, Calfee etc... you know what I am talking about.

How is it possible to go through 10 bikes a year?

[fuzzalow]

Great that you run through 10+ high-end bikes a year. Some of which were carbon monocoque construction and had ride qualities not to your liking.

Which bikes comprised this group of bikes?

[rockdude]

Not exactly sure I understand your post. Don't Parlee's have a monocoque fork?

It not about forks IMO, its about tube construction is better than Monocoque construction whether in forks or frames. I had never thought there would be a difference in forks but found that the theory applies to them also.

Bottom line, if you don't have a broad base of bikes to compare you may not know the difference between the two types of carbon, Of course a persons perception is only based on their experiences. A person that hasn't owned 4 + tube on tube bikes to compare to 4+ monocoque bikes is not going to understand the difference.

[eddief]

wonder if you'd have the same opinion down here at sea level?

[rice rocket]

Oh boy. Not this again.

[Ken Robb]

The only carbon bike I owned was a Look 381 and it was a great ride. I tried one of the early TREKs (5200?) and it felt wooden/dead so I think I get your opinion.

[54ny77]

Bobswire--I had a Parlee Z4 and it was stellar. It was sorta tube to tube, although some of it was made in sections if memory serves me correct. I think the main difference between it, the Specialized SL or any bike that I happen to own and/or be on is summed up as: whatever bike I'm riding at that moment is better than sitting at a desk. Honestly, the more I'm riding, the less I think about this stuff. Am more focused on why my legs hurt....

:banana:



What is a guy to think? Reading your "review" then reading this one http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=107634 ?

BTW I think Wound Ups on Ti frames are the best.

[Jaq]

Well, I bought a Enve to save 200 grams and to have a more atheistic look.

Why do you hate baby Jesus?

[Earl Gray]

Do the Monocoque bikes explode more too?

[bobswire]

Bobswire--I had a Parlee Z4 and it was stellar. It was sorta tube to tube, although some of it was made in sections if memory serves me correct. I think the main difference between it, the Specialized SL or any bike that I happen to own and/or be on is summed up as: whatever bike I'm riding at that moment is better than sitting at a desk. Honestly, the more I'm riding, the less I think about this stuff. Am more focused on why my legs hurt....

:banana:

A friend I go riding with occasionally has the Parlee Z4 and he really likes it but
most of the time we meet up he's on his Merlin.:rolleyes:
A couple of weeks ago he came down and I gave him a "roads less traveled" tour of the city.
That is his Merlin on the right of me.
http://i41.tinypic.com/ix5vk9.jpg

[54ny77]

Hmmm....a nutritionally enhanced Host (a.k.a. communion wafer). I like the concept. Cheap, and lightweight too, for the weight weenie in all of us...

Hey Clif Bar, you hearing this?

:p

Why do you hate baby Jesus?

[pdmtong]

Love my parlee z3...hated my calfee luna

[benitosan1972]

How is it possible to go through 10 bikes a year?

Unless he's a really bad bike handler & crashes/totals one bike per month. ;)
Question is: who can afford/store/actually 10+ bikes at any given time?
This guy must ride all day every day year round, that's dedication to the sport :)

[Fivethumbs]

I'm going to make a T-shirt that says, "Tube to tube carbon is real". Though now that I say it out loud it seems like something is missing.

[roguedog]

Love my parlee z3...hated my calfee luna

Wow. This is interesting. What were the differences?

All..I think the dude means he has bout 10 bikes in the stable on average through the year.

I think this is just his theory on ride differences he's experienced . Maybe it makes sense? Maybe you have more overall control in tube to tube than monocoque.. I dunno. I am not a frame builder and have zilcho knowledge bout carbon frame construction methods and their wherefores and whatnot...

[pdmtong]

Wow. This is interesting. What were the differences?

All..I think the dude means he has bout 10 bikes in the stable on average through the year.

I think this is just his theory on ride differences he's experienced . Maybe it makes sense? Maybe you have more overall control in tube to tube than monocoque.. I dunno. I am not a frame builder and have zilcho knowledge bout carbon frame construction methods and their wherefores and whatnot...

I'm 172#s

calfee was harsh when riding over rough pavement - it just pounded me. and that was with 32h OPs. also no snap when jumping on the gas.

parlee on the other hand is very comfortable, and snappy. much more point and shoot.

I have no idea why but that was MY experience.

So maybe the guy has 10 bikes and rotates another 10 bikes through evbery year. think of it like a rental program - fun to try new things, etc. You just have to front the cash, have a secondary market, and be possibly willing to take some amount of loss depending on the deal(s) you got going in.

Plenty of folks here who have 10+ bikes.

While the OPs comment is his opinion, it would make it more tangible for me if he named some specific models for reference.

Parlee vs SL2? In my personal experience I can see his point.

Parlee vs. SL4? maybe not...based on what I have read on the SL4.

[slidey]

And I judge a bike based on it's stiffness or power transfer. The stiffer the bike, the more I like it. Hence, moved away from Ti as the one bike I rode had great ride comfort but was way too flexy for my liking.

Handling -> I always thought this was down to the rider.

Ride quality -> better bibs and loads of chamois cream.

I judge a bike on fit, handling and ride quality.

[rustychisel]

Handling -> I always thought this was down to the rider.

Ride quality -> better bibs and loads of chamois cream.



Take a stiff aluminium frame bike (old Klein or C'Dale) down a rough steep road; then repeat the experiment with a nice steel or carbon framed bike.

Report back on handling and ride quality with particular reference to traction control, steering input, wrist strain, and back wheel 'chatter' and breaking contact with uneven road surfaces.

[jpw]

Can we name some monocoque frames for reference please?

[esldude]

Certainly possible to discern some differences owning that many bikes. Though I don't know about ten per year. Even year round that is 5 weeks per bike. Long enough to get to know them I suppose. So do go through bikes over and over or have you found some you have kept?

Now I do think you are onto something though my bike owning experience is not equal to 6 months of yours.

In a way, the carbon monocoque's remind me a bit of good aluminum bikes. Plenty stiff, not quite damped enough for road buzz, and somehow despite that feel 'wooden' like another person mentioned. I sort of think it must be because it is not flexible and that feels dead while a slight give of the right sort makes one feel lively. A good steel bike vs aluminum doesn't seem quite as stiff, yet stiff enough, quieter riding with less road buzz, and a bit lively.

If there is any truth to it, and one is surely painting with a broad, broad brush, tubed carbon is better because it is less stiff and rigid. My guess would be either can be designed to be more like the other. Certainly see no reason monococque bikes couldn't be made with desired flex, alive feeling qualities, and better damped. Probably mostly a side effect of using the lower weight advantage and making sure it is race ready stiff.

I do think a diet of high end bikes you describe has made the tiny differences overly noticeable. Either is actually a pretty amazing thing compared to most bikes out there. Getting all that picky sounds like a road to burn out or permanent dissatisfaction. Even if you get something you think wonderful you are going to ask yourself, "man this is great, but I wonder what someone has now that is even better".

Also, if you happen to ride a 56 cm frame, can I get on your list for helping rid you of unacceptable bikes (ti, monococque carbon or tube carbon I am pretty agreeable)?

[1centaur]

I have 10+ bikes and plenty of tube to tube among them but don't have much bias against the so called monocoques in the bunch. I think monocoque makers try to take advantage of the stiffness at the (otherwise) joints that the process implies, though most monocoques are really multi-coques that just remove some joints but still come in pieces. For me, it's hard to discern the effect of tube to tube feeling vs. the effect of big corporate design over individualized builds in a Crumpton or Parlee. Designers seem to shoot for a ride aesthetic whereas design teams can end up with a function aesthetic or at best group think on the ride feel.

As for the fork effect, I'm not sure what to make of that re: monocoque vs. tube to tube. Forks are different, and layups are different. I found Edge wheels rode less well than Reynolds wheels but people raved about their stiffness, which not coincidentally is what monocoques are famously shooting for. I believe if the OP went through 10 different forks he'd find a lot of ride differences that had to do with manufacturing choices and not monocoque-ness, per se.

[charliedid]

" I judge a bike on fit, handling and ride quality."

That is ground breaking stuff right there...

What about the buss?

[MattTuck]

It not about forks IMO, its about tube construction is better than Monocoque construction whether in forks or frames. I had never thought there would be a difference in forks but found that the theory applies to them also.

Bottom line, if you don't have a broad base of bikes to compare you may not know the difference between the two types of carbon, Of course a persons perception is only based on their experiences. A person that hasn't owned 4 + tube on tube bikes to compare to 4+ monocoque bikes is not going to understand the difference.

I understand. So, should parlee and other tube to tube carbon builders just use wound up? Are you saying that the ride of a parlee would be improved with a wound up fork?

I've only ever ridden carbon around the bike shop parking lot, so I don't know a ton about how it rides. I like my steel bike, but often lust after some of the carbon out there, or go through phases when I think it would be nice to have a carbon frame.

I'll keep an eye out for fork construction when I decide to pull the trigger.

[redir]

Why do you hate baby Jesus?

And Allah and Budda and Amen Ra and Zues and...

:)

[fuzzalow]

Can the carbon bikes under discussion here be named, either by the OP or by some of the Paceliners that have the experience.

I too have 10+ bikes, not all built up at once. I have only owned 3 carbon bikes: Colnago c40, Colnago c50 and DeRosa King. However, my last 3 bikes are all custom steel, of which 2 have carbon forks.

What bikes, of the different carbon construction types, make for good rides and which do not? What qualities made them either good or bad? My interest is because although I can feel differences between bikes I have never experienced a bike I couldn't like based simply on the feel. I dislike bikes that are a PITA to fit, my DeRosa is in this category.

[Grant McLean]

Can we name some monocoque frames for reference please?

As 1Centaur hinted at, there really are no contemporary monocoque frames
on the market these days. Most frames from the large brands are made from
multiple sub-assemblies that are joined together into the two triangles. The
idea is that by reducing the number of complex shapes, the bladder can more
efficiently compress the layup with less glue.

The so called 'ride quality' of the carbon comes from the layup schedule and the
material used, with a different modulus. THe different tube joining techniques is like saying
tig welded steel frames ride differently than fillet brazed ones...so i'm not
really sure what the OP is actually talking about.

I could say that every red bike i've ever owned rode great, and every black one
rode like crap. It could be true, but the paint colour isn't the magic bullet,
and neither is the method of joining the tubes.

-g

[FlashUNC]

As 1Centaur hinted at, there really are no contemporary monocoque frames
on the market these days. Most frames from the large brands are made from
multiple sub-assemblies that are joined together into the two triangles. The
idea is that by reducing the number of complex shapes, the bladder can more
efficiently compress the layup with less glue.

The so called 'ride quality' of the carbon comes from the layup schedule and the
material used, with a different modulus. THe different tube joining techniques is like saying
tig welded steel frames ride differently than fillet brazed ones...so i'm not
really sure what the OP is actually talking about.

I could say that every red bike i've ever owned rode great, and every black one
rode like crap. It could be true, but the paint colour isn't the magic bullet,
and neither is the method of joining the tubes.

-g

To be totally fair, that lugged frame I made out of wet pasta was REALLY flexy. Woulda been way stiffer if I had let the pasta dry first.

[christian]

Also, if you happen to ride a 56 cm frame, can I get on your list for helping rid you of unacceptable bikes (ti, monococque carbon or tube carbon I am pretty agreeable)?
[x] Like.

[rockdude]

My conclusion about Monocoque vs Tube on tube is just my opinion and its a a generalization but I think there is some truth to it.

Don't hate because I have had lots of bikes. The process is simple, buy one, ride it 20-40 hours and make a decision to keep or sell, then do it all over again. Its just a rotating cash flow. If you think I have a lot of bikes lets not talk about wheels. I am down to 8 bikes currently and two are Monocoque; P3 TT, and Full Tilt Boogie CX.

I do ride a lot. I race about 40 races a year and average about 16-20 hours a week except during CX season where its tapered back to around 11-16 hours.

Here is a list of some of the nicer Monocoque bikes I have spent time on

Madone
gary fisher cronus- did not own but spent about a month on it.
Tarmac
Supersix- only spent about 400 mile on this one
Cervelo s2 and r3

I am not saying any of these bikes are bad bikes, I would race any of them, But I don't want to spend 3 hours a day, 6 days a week on one. On the other hand my Parlee Z1's ride quality is so nice, I only ride it on special occasions.

[rockdude]

[x] Like.

Also, if you happen to ride a 56 cm frame, can I get on your list for helping rid you of unacceptable bikes (ti, monococque carbon or tube carbon I am pretty agreeable)?

I do ride a 56cm and most of the smaller name brand frames/bikes are bought and sold right here.

[Fixed]

My conclusion about Monocoque vs Tube on tube is just my opinion and its a a generalization but I think there is some truth to it.

Don't hate because I have had lots of bikes. The process is simple, buy one, ride it 20-40 hours and make a decision to keep or sell, then do it all over again. Its just a rotating cash flow. If you think I have a lot of bikes lets not talk about wheels. I am down to 8 bikes currently and two are Monocoque; P3 TT, and Full Tilt Boogie CX.

I do ride a lot. I race about 40 races a year and average about 16-20 hours a week except during CX season where its tapered back to around 11-16 hours.

Here is a list of some of the nicer Monocoque bikes I have spent time on

Madone
gary fisher cronus- did not own but spent about a month on it.
Tarmac
Supersix- only spent about 400 mile on this one
Cervelo s2 and r3

I am not saying any of these bikes are bad bikes, I would race any of them, But I don't want to spend 3 hours a day, 6 days a week on one. On the other hand my Parlee Z1's ride quality is so nice, I only ride it on special occasions.

You have way less invested than the average Florida sport boating enthusiast
IMHO.
Good for you bro ,enjoy your life and your bikes :you are doing something good for yourself
Cheers

[charliedid]

My conclusion about Monocoque vs Tube on tube is just my opinion and its a a generalization but I think there is some truth to it.

Don't hate because I have had lots of bikes. The process is simple, buy one, ride it 20-40 hours and make a decision to keep or sell, then do it all over again. Its just a rotating cash flow. If you think I have a lot of bikes lets not talk about wheels. I am down to 8 bikes currently and two are Monocoque; P3 TT, and Full Tilt Boogie CX.

I do ride a lot. I race about 40 races a year and average about 16-20 hours a week except during CX season where its tapered back to around 11-16 hours.

Here is a list of some of the nicer Monocoque bikes I have spent time on

Madone
gary fisher cronus- did not own but spent about a month on it.
Tarmac
Supersix- only spent about 400 mile on this one
Cervelo s2 and r3

I am not saying any of these bikes are bad bikes, I would race any of them, But I don't want to spend 3 hours a day, 6 days a week on one. On the other hand my Parlee Z1's ride quality is so nice, I only ride it on special occasions.

Yeah, but you can't really be all that surprised that a race bike designed to do nothing but go fast is not "compliant" churning out the miles for half a day.

Right tool for the ....blah blah

[cmg]

"buy one, ride it 20-40 hours and make a decision to keep or sell, then do it all over again. Its just a rotating cash flow." So it's really respending the amount of the original purchase. This is what eBay is for. My 20-40 hours is usaully a year long but same principle. your actually leasing the bike when you lose money on the resale. profits go for upgrades.

the cannondale supersix , what were your impressions of this ride? it got great reviews in road bike review.

[rockdude]

[QUOTE=cmg;1146484 the cannondale supersix , what were your impressions of this ride? it got great reviews in road bike review.[/QUOTE]

I really like Cannondale as a whole. I have had a MTB and a couple of there Al road bikes that I were very good. For the supersix I didn't spend that much time on it so my review is not real complete. I found the handling to be netural and stable. The ride quality was not overly harsh nor stiff but also not plush nor damp. I think its a solid bike but with that said, nothing really stood out for me and made me want to pick it when I went for a ride. When I am not riding a bike I sell it.

It might be better to find reviews from people who have spent a lot of time on it.

[FlashUNC]

On the other hand my Parlee Z1's ride quality is so nice, I only ride it on special occasions.

If something rides really nice, wouldn't you want to ride it all the time?

The nicest riding bike I have is my main ride. I'd think if you're spending that much time in the saddle, you'd want to enjoy it.

[rockdude]

If something rides really nice, wouldn't you want to ride it all the time?

The nicest riding bike I have is my main ride. I'd think if you're spending that much time in the saddle, you'd want to enjoy it.

Special Shirt syndrome- Ever had a favorite shirt that you only wore on special occasion? I know people do this with cars also. They have a everyday commuter car and a nicer weekend car. The Parlee is so nice, I just want to take care of it and not sweat and slobber all over it on training rides or crash it in races. Had the same issue with my Peg Love #3, great bike but ended up selling it because it never got ridden.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/roc-dude/P6141019.jpg



Here is the bike I slobber on, smooth and comfortable.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/roc-dude/P8240979.jpg

[benitosan1972]

Parlee is beautiful.
Serotta is beautiful.
You have nice bikes!
Enjoy them all, show more.

[Fixed]

Parlee is beautiful.
Serotta is beautiful.
You have nice bikes!
Enjoy them all, show more.

+1
the bikes deserve to be Used
And you deserve them
you earned the right to ride them IMHO enjoy
Cheers

[Jaq]

You have way less invested than the average Florida sport boating enthusiast
IMHO.
Good for you bro ,enjoy your life and your bikes :you are doing something good for yourself
Cheers

Yeah, but try and land some radioactive tuna from the saddle of a purple Parlee.

[benitosan1972]

The paint job on that Parlee is amazing, I've been staring at it all morning

[Fixed]

The cross bike is something special Too
I have never seen one like it
Cheers :)

[benitosan1972]

Rear end of that Serotta looks like it's hunkered down and ready to pounce up a hill, I hope it sees some action, enjoy it and get it muddy sometime :)

[Grant McLean]

Here is a list of some of the nicer Monocoque bikes I have spent time on

Madone
gary fisher cronus- did not own but spent about a month on it.
Tarmac
Supersix- only spent about 400 mile on this one
Cervelo s2 and r3.

None of those are monocoques.
They're all modular construction from multiple preformed pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs&feature=related

-g

[rockdude]

Rear end of that Serotta looks like it's hunkered down and ready to pounce up a hill, I hope it sees some action, enjoy it and get it muddy sometime :)

The DKS rear triangle was way before its time and still is (thanks Mr. Kirk). You put it on a cross bike with a Ti fork and every ride is a like floating on a cloud. She is dressed to race cross but her real marching orders are daily training and racing spring races where dirt/gravel roads are involved.

[esldude]

Oh man, that is as already noted, one beautiful paint scheme on that Parlee.

I know what you mean about having a nice shirt or a nice second car you don't use everyday. However, I think I have learned, you should use your nice stuff and enjoy it. I have a natural impulse I don't always overcome to save the nice stuff. In the end, if you enjoy it the more you use it the more enjoyment you get. Now that doesn't mean I am taking my sports car out to ride through the woods in the mud or even drive to town in the snow if I have another ride. But I use it as much as possible other than extremes.

Gotta say again, man that is a beautiful Parlee.

[rockdude]

None of those are monocoques.
They're all modular construction from multiple preformed pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs&feature=related

-g

Thanks Grant for the video and clarification in my terminology.

[MattTuck]

None of those are monocoques.
They're all modular construction from multiple preformed pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs&feature=related

-g

That video is hilarious. Thanks for sharing.

Don't forget that if you put a waterbottle on your bike, you're doubling the weight of the frame!

[slowgoing]

Parlee is beautiful.
Serotta is beautiful.
You have nice bikes!
Enjoy them all, show more.

+1

Agree 100% on parlee carbon. I also liked the C-40 and Calfee Tetra Pro.

I read that the old Kestrel 200EMS and 200SCi were monocoque. A bit wooden but climb like nothing else I have ever tried.

[bobswire]

That video is hilarious. Thanks for sharing.

Don't forget that if you put a waterbottle on your bike, you're doubling the weight of the frame!

Yeah , put the water bottle in your jersey pocket to save weight on the bike. :banana:

[slidey]

Finally, this makes sense.

None of those are monocoques.
They're all modular construction from multiple preformed pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs&feature=related

-g

[TMB]

None of those are monocoques.
They're all modular construction from multiple preformed pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs&feature=related

-g

"and the lighter the bike, the faster it goes"

"steel is heavier, and slower"

OK

[fuzzalow]

Here is a list of some of the nicer Monocoque bikes I have spent time on
Madone
gary fisher cronus- did not own but spent about a month on it.
Tarmac
Supersix- only spent about 400 mile on this one
Cervelo s2 and r3

...On the other hand my Parlee Z1's ride quality is so nice, I only ride it on special occasions.

None of those are monocoques.
They're all modular construction from multiple preformed pieces.


A thread started to voice an opinion bemoaning that carbon monocoque frames having inferior ride quality based on the riding experience of frames which were not carbon monocoques to begin with.

Whilst a Parlee that rides extremely well is set aside because it is too good to ride.

Mother McCree, pin a rose on me.

That Trek marketing vid was difficult to watch for very long but at least didn't have the pretense of the Cervelo dinner table vid from a while ago.

[Grant McLean]

That Trek marketing vid was difficult to watch for very long...

To be fair, it's not a Trek marketing piece, it's from a National Geographic
television program called "who knew?", with this guy as the host:

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

Some of it is bad, but I think they did a pretty good job towards the end of
the video showing the carbon production process at Trek.

-g

[BillG]

I think I have a monocoque bike, a Merckx MXM. I ride on really crappy roads -- New England. I find it both comfortable, more than my steel bikes, and stiff and have ridden it some pretty long distances on said crappy roads. But I don't go through 10 bikes a year.

[Ti Designs]

But I don't go through 10 bikes a year.

You should replace your Merckx, it's all dirty.

[false_Aest]

A bit wooden but climb like nothing else I have ever tried.

has anyone here ridden a wooden bike?

[54ny77]

No but I find myself staring at that Renovo posted in the gallery. Go check it out. It's positively beautiful craftsmanship.

has anyone here ridden a wooden bike?

[Fivethumbs]

has anyone here ridden a wooden bike?

When I joined this forum in 2005, I never in a million years would have thought these words would have been spoken...and not as a joke either! Who knew?

[BillG]

You should replace your Merckx, it's all dirty.

Good point. Why clean it when I could just buy a new bike?

[oldpotatoe]

has anyone here ridden a wooden bike?

Built a couple, they ride like they are made of wood.

[FlashUNC]

Yeah , put the water bottle in your jersey pocket to save weight on the bike. :banana:

Wasn't it Coppi who placed bottles in his pockets, rather than on the bike for the mental gymnastics of "saving weight"?

Even the greats played mind games with themselves over this sort of thing.

[bobswire]

Wasn't it Coppi who placed bottles in his pockets, rather than on the bike for the mental gymnastics of "saving weight"?

Even the greats played mind games with themselves over this sort of thing.

Speaking of which, a very weighty subject. > http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=66311

[rockdude]

To be fair, it's not a Trek marketing piece, it's from a National Geographic
television program called "who knew?", with this guy as the host:

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

Some of it is bad, but I think they did a pretty good job towards the end of
the video showing the carbon production process at Trek.

-g

Almost all shows like this are paid for by the featured company. I get two or three calls a year from shows on CNN the discovery channel, etc, saying I have been selected as an outstanding company they want to feature. Then they ask you to paid the production and traveling cost. Same thing happens with Magazines, buy ads or donate something etc.. then get a great write-up. Want to be in neiman marcus Christmas catalog or REI mailer you pay for that too. I always knew some of this went on but now I know most media companies consider this type of stuff as a major profit channel.

[pdmtong]

has anyone here ridden a wooden bike?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=110150

[Jeff N.]

Why do you hate baby Jesus?

Really! How does one look atheistic?

[Grant McLean]

Almost all shows like this are paid for by the featured company.


Well, Trek should have paid more, and got someone who can write.

-g

[sandyrs]

Really! How does one look atheistic?

by wearing reddit-related clothing?

[Charles M]

No way I'm reading this thread:fight:

[soulspinner]

Built a couple, they ride like they are made of wood.

:)

[nicrump]

soo very true. i was contacted by by a similar show on a competing station. we spent a few hours phone time story boarding, scheduling and such. then right when the commitment was due from both parties, i got called by the "producer" for final scheduling. this guy was nothing more than a silver tongued sales slime asking for $90k for an 8 min spot that would be aired like 3 times over 1 year and all at like 5:00AM EST.

Almost all shows like this are paid for by the featured company. I get two or three calls a year from shows on CNN the discovery channel, etc, saying I have been selected as an outstanding company they want to feature. Then they ask you to paid the production and traveling cost. Same thing happens with Magazines, buy ads or donate something etc.. then get a great write-up. Want to be in neiman marcus Christmas catalog or REI mailer you pay for that too. I always knew some of this went on but now I know most media companies consider this type of stuff as a major profit channel.

[e-RICHIE]

soo very true. i was contacted by by a similar show on a competing station. we spent a few hours phone time story boarding, scheduling and such. then right when the commitment was due from both parties, i got called by the "producer" for final scheduling. this guy was nothing more than a silver tongued sales slime asking for $90k for an 8 min spot that would be aired like 3 times over 1 year and all at like 5:00AM EST.

Many of the book offers we get are of the same ilk atmo.
Just say no.