Cav being pushed up a hill in the 2012 Giro

[spartanKid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw47P5dRs0


Some how, I'm not surprised at all.

[Rueda Tropical]

When in Rome.

Good to see Cav bringing back a grand old Giro tradition that had traditionally been reserved for Italian riders.

[Viper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqYBcTUsP4&feature=related

[Steelman]

Thankfully, he did not win the points jersey. He lost by one point to the 2nd place overall finisher.

[Fivethumbs]

The most exiting road races are the ones where a rider sits in the pack, never goes out on a break, never sticks his nose in the wind, hides the whole time, only to sprint to the win in the last 50 meters......NOT! (that's right, I rocked the "NOT").

[ultraman6970]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oChUxMQF9g&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[jpw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw47P5dRs0


Some how, I'm not surprised at all.

Where's the context? The guy pushing wasn't a Team Sky employee.

Cav wasn't disqualified. Four others were for car hanging, including fly boy Guardini who couldn't finish inside the time limit to save his life and isn't a GT rider. He just turns up to steal a bit of publicity and vital points from real riders.

Where did golden boy Farrar finish in the GC?
What of Goss, Renshaw, Bos, Demare, Feillu et.c. etc.? I didn't see any of those professionals earning their salaries for the whole of the last three weeks.

[jpw]

Thankfully, he did not win the points jersey. He lost by one point to the 2nd place overall finisher.

Who won only one stage and wheel sucked every other contender throughout the three weeks. If he'd won the Giro that would have been a far greater travesty than Cav winning the red jersey.

How many points did Farrar get?

Note. Only five riders in the history of the three Grand Tours have won all three points jerseys. Cav missed becoming the sixth by one point having been wiped out by Ferrari on a sprint stage finish (who should have been disqualified and went on to win another stage), and losing a sprint to Guardini who went on to be disqualified for car hanging (the penalty for car hanging should be greater than mere disqualification to deter that behavior. It should also be voiding of stage victories and points).

[jpw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=mTGCHfARK0Y

...and now for the doppelganger Giro.

[cfox]

Who won only one stage and wheel sucked every other contender throughout the three weeks. If he'd won the Giro that would have been a far greater travesty than Cav winning the red jersey.

How many points did Farrar get?
Oh here we go...the 'he didn't deserve it thread'...Rodriguez rode an incredible race and would have been a worthy winner. It's a bike race, you do what you need to do to win. Watch figure skating if you want style points. And he won 2 stages, by the way.

[jlwdm]

...

Where did golden boy Farrar finish in the GC? ....

Are you kidding? Why would you ask about GC for a non-GC rider?

Also, what is with the golden boy? Whose golden boy?

Jeff

[jpw]

Are you kidding? Why would you ask about GC for a non-GC rider?

Also, what is with the golden boy? Whose golden boy?

Jeff

Where did he finish? He didn't finish, that's the point I'm making. I'm not suggesting he's a GC contender. The GC list is the reference to note who is still in the race, and he and several other sprinters aren't there because they took the train out of town when the going got tough.

He's his own golden boy. In the past he's had a tendency to make critical comments about his rivals in GT races. He should shut up and try to finish a few more, as should several other fly boys.

[firerescuefin]

Some in this thread live very small lives.

I laugh when people try to diminish sprinters and hold up the guy that is protected the entire race so he can be led to the base of a climb on a few stages in a grand tour to inflict his damage...pretty much the same thing. Get a life.

Cavs laughing as a spectator is pushing him.....clearly newsworthy. :rolleyes:

[cfox]

Many in this thread live very small lives.

I laugh when people try to diminish sprinters and hold up the guy that is protected the entire race so he can be led to the base of a climb on a few stages in a grand tour to inflict his damage...pretty much the same thing. Get a life.

Cavs laughing as a spectator is pushing him.....clearly newsworthy. :rolleyes:
small lives? overboard much? I'm not one to diminish anything pro tour cyclists do; it's a brutal sport regardless of your specialty. But realistically what sprinters do isn't close to what a top GC guy has to do. Besides actually racing up the mountains, they have to actually try in the time trials. Not really in the same universe as a 500m sprint after being protected all day on a flat stage.

[weaponsgrade]

“Contrary to popular belief, I am one of the only riders who do not take pulls or get pushed,” he said.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/giro-notebook-stage-21-cav-says-giro-has-killed-him-phinneys-unplanned-detour_221493

[firerescuefin]

small lives? overboard much? I'm not one to diminish anything pro tour cyclists do; it's a brutal sport regardless of your specialty. But realistically what sprinters do isn't close to what a top GC guy has to do. Besides actually racing up the mountains, they have to actually try in the time trials. Not really in the same universe as a 500m sprint after being protected all day on a flat stage.


They're specialists. This place is getting tiresome.

The OP took a shot at Cav for getting pushed...like he was cheating..then people piled on that sprinters weren't racers. Probably people whose closest brush with racing is their time spent in front of OLN.

[mike p]

This is ridiculous!

Mike


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw47P5dRs0


Some how, I'm not surprised at all.

[Gummee]

I would have LOVED someone to push me up some of the hills a few weeks ago at the Devil's Backbone 'cross' ride. :nod

Us 'sprinter types' hauling our carcasses over hills that little 130 climber types love to go over HURTS.

M

[Grant McLean]

But realistically what sprinters do isn't close to what a top GC guy has to do. Besides actually racing up the mountains, they have to actually try in the time trials. Not really in the same universe as a 500m sprint after being protected all day on a flat stage.

What's the point of denigrating what sprinters do? It's like complaining
that baseball pitchers can't hit. So what? Track and field 100m sprinters don't
run marathons. Last I checked, sprinters are on the same team as GC riders,
rouleurs, TT specialists, and domestiques. Cycling is a specialized TEAM sport.

The differences in human physiology are what makes it the very interesting
sport that it is. Specialization is not a personal shortcoming, it adds to the
diversity that is pro cycling. People who understand racing get that point,
but I realize it's lost on many.

-g

[Fixed]

What's the point of denigrating what sprinters do? It's like complaining
that baseball pitchers can't hit. So what? Track and field 100m sprinters don't
run marathons. Last I checked, sprinters are on the same team as GC riders,
rouleurs, TT specialists, and domestiques. Cycling is a specialized TEAM sport.

The differences in human physiology are what makes it the very interesting
sport that it is. Specialization is not a personal shortcoming, it adds to the
diversity that is pro cycling. People who understand racing get that point,
but I realize it's lost on many.

-g

I agree


it is a team sport
Each member brings his strength to the team
To make the overall team stronger
Cheers

[gemship]

small lives? overboard much? I'm not one to diminish anything pro tour cyclists do; it's a brutal sport regardless of your specialty. But realistically what sprinters do isn't close to what a top GC guy has to do. Besides actually racing up the mountains, they have to actually try in the time trials. Not really in the same universe as a 500m sprint after being protected all day on a flat stage.


You're probably right. I'm not a big racing enthusiast but I do know that there are GC racers that when taking up a sprinter's role they perform sometimes beyond the standard the same can not be said of most if not all sprinters when rolls are reversed.

[firerescuefin]

You're probably right. I'm not a big racing enthusiast but I do know that there are GC racers that when taking up a sprinter's role they perform sometimes beyond the standard the same can not be said of most if not all sprinters when rolls are reversed.

Boonen, Cav, and others will pound away on the front when called to do so...to protect their GC guys and both are capable of a good time trial...by the way both World Champions.

[gemship]

Boonen, Cav, and others will pound away on the front when called to do so...to protect their GC guys and both are capable of a good time trial...by the way both World Champions.

and all the riders you mentioned will get their legs ripped off on a hill, whoopee or a nice big push for Cav

[firerescuefin]

and all the riders you mentioned will get their legs ripped off on a hill, whoopee or a nice big push for Cav


Cav won MSR...he's no climber, but he can get over a "hill"

....and your point is what. No GC guy is going to be within 5 bike lengths of Cav in a sprint. Grant made my point better than I could have.

[thwart]

I'm no Cavendish fan, but getting a push from a spectator or two... big whoop.

He does deserve props for finishing a very tough Giro. And for making some classy statements (see VeloNews article) after the last stage, even though he had to be very disappointed to lose the jersey by one point.

[cfox]

What's the point of denigrating what sprinters do? It's like complaining
that baseball pitchers can't hit. So what? Track and field 100m sprinters don't
run marathons. Last I checked, sprinters are on the same team as GC riders,
rouleurs, TT specialists, and domestiques. Cycling is a specialized TEAM sport.

The differences in human physiology are what makes it the very interesting
sport that it is. Specialization is not a personal shortcoming, it adds to the
diversity that is pro cycling. People who understand racing get that point,
but I realize it's lost on many.

-g
Grant, I wasn't denigrating anyone, I was responding to a post that seemed to equate winning a sprint stage to winning a grand tour. Of course there are specialists and of course it what makes the sport fun to watch.

[BillG]

Sprinters suffer a lot on the climbs, I would venture a lot more than most riders. Imagine trying to get your fat ass over those crazy mountains within cut off. Those big sprinting muscles are just dead baggage. Protection doesn't matter a lot under that circumstance. Chapeau to Cavendish for finishing the Giro, with the Olympics and everything else coming up. And chapeau for how gentlemanly he was about Rodriguez' pipping him for the jersey.

[jpw]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/giro-notebook-stage-21-cav-says-giro-has-killed-him-phinneys-unplanned-detour_221493

He sure looks spent.

[Rueda Tropical]

Cav should be commended on his Giro performance. Super Mario would have been out before the first big hill. Didn't start out as a fan but Cavendish is really growing on me. He is maturing into a great champion.

[retrofit]

A good sportsman, nevertheless:


“Well, that’s life on the bike,” Cavendish said. “In a way, I am happy for Rodríguez, because it was tough for him to lose the pink jersey on the last day. At least he can stand on the podium with the red jersey.”

[monkeybanana86]

Cav should be commended on his Giro performance. Super Mario would have been out before the first big hill. Didn't start out as a fan but Cavendish is really growing on me. He is maturing into a great champion.

I think it's cool that he stayed to the end!

though after watching those three videos I don't hear him here:

“Contrary to popular belief, I am one of the only riders who do not take pulls or get pushed,” he said.

[bluesea]

Cav said he "finished" out of respect for the Giro and the Rainbow Jersey, and that's basically what he did.

[John H.]

I am sure that he got many pushes and held the car a bunch too.
But that is what sprinters do. he was not the only one.
Cippo got over the Giro climbs the exact same way.
That is what sprinters do.

[jpw]

I am sure that he got many pushes and held the car a bunch too.
But that is what sprinters do. he was not the only one.
Cippo got over the Giro climbs the exact same way.
That is what sprinters do.

Getting a push from fans is one thing. Taking a car tow is another. It was refreshing to see the race officials disqualify four riders for that.

I'm looking forward to the Giro becoming a more progressive organization in the years ahead with this new guy now in charge. He's talking about internationalizing the race, which is a good thing, and a necessary thing for the health of the event. An end to parochialism. It's a great event. It makes Le Tour seem a little bit boring at times.

[John H.]

Sorry to burst your bubble but they do both. It is somewhat part of racing.
An Italian start would never get DQ'd or penalized for it at the Giro.
Giro progressive? They once cancelled a mountain stage just so Francesco Moser could win the Giro (Moser being Italian). They said the pass was snowed out and it in fact was not.

Getting a push from fans is one thing. Taking a car tow is another. It was refreshing to see the race officials disqualify four riders for that.

I'm looking forward to the Giro becoming a more progressive organization in the years ahead with this new guy now in charge. He's talking about internationalizing the race, which is a good thing, and a necessary thing for the health of the event. An end to parochialism. It's a great event. It makes Le Tour seem a little bit boring at times.

[firerescuefin]

John...they DQ'd Italy's up and coming sprinter a day or two after his stage win over Cav...along with Garmin's Robbie Hunter

[Viper]

The Tour de France was laden with massive cheating, from its origin. It's history is interesting and worth a read in a great book, 'A Significant Other':

http://www.amazon.com/Significant-Other-Riding-Centenary-Armstrong/dp/0297847163

The book narrates le Tour, as seen through the eyes and legs of Victor Hugo Peña. I enjoyed the book years ago and learned about the scandals of the old, le Tour, where cheating was mechanical, methodical, not chemical.

Should Mark Cavendish get ranked on a bit for some cheesy scenes captured on video? I'd say so. It's not about him. It could be anyone; whoever was on modernday video, snagged, getting pulled by a car or pushed by fans, they ought to be ranked and ragged on a bit.

[John H.]

Hardly on the level of a rider like a Pettachi or Cippolini.
Also, it must be said that if someone gets a DQ for holding cars they were holding on for a really long time- not like 200 yards.
With all due respect, if you don't think car holding is part of pro cycling- do don't really know pro cycling.
The only person that gets pissed about it is a sprinter that does climb pretty well and does not need the help... and there are not many of those.
It is not just car holding it is also riding in the caravan. There are many cars in the caravan. If a rider is getting dropped he can hide in that caravan, draft when possible, hold the cars when possible, hold other teams cars, sling off of cars, use the cars on open descents, etc. All of this can allow a rider who would be dropped without any help to get back on and contest the sprint at the end. Using the caravan is truly an art.

John...they DQ'd Italy's up and coming sprinter a day or two after his stage win over Cav...along with Garmin's Robbie Hunter

[John H.]

I saw Victor Hugo Pena drop out of a group he was climbing in so he could go back to where the cars were and hold on rather than pedal.

The Tour de France was laden with massive cheating, from its origin. It's history is interesting and worth a read in a great book, 'A Significant Other':

http://www.amazon.com/Significant-Other-Riding-Centenary-Armstrong/dp/0297847163

The book narrates le Tour, as seen through the eyes and legs of Victor Hugo Peña. I enjoyed the book years ago and learned about the scandals of the old, le Tour, where cheating was mechanical, methodical, not chemical.

Should Mark Cavendish get ranked on a bit for some cheesy scenes captured on video? I'd say so. It's not about him. It could be anyone; whoever was on modernday video, snagged, getting pulled by a car or pushed by fans, they ought to be ranked and ragged on a bit.

[Viper]

I saw Victor Hugo Pena drop out of a group he was climbing in so he could go back to where the cars were and hold on rather than pedal.

I believe you. And if it was on video, YouTube, he would've been ragged on by the public. I understand cycling and we now know what could be strewn, streamed and snagged on YouTube. Those videos of Cav's front wheel doing the do-si-do before fans grabbed his seatpost are now in hdtv. It's not the 90's anymore.

:beer:

[skouri1]

“Contrary to popular belief, I am one of the only riders who do not take pulls or get pushed,” he said.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/giro-notebook-stage-21-cav-says-giro-has-killed-him-phinneys-unplanned-detour_221493


This sucks. Can't say I respect cav a lot. He should just drop out of GTs once the stages point skyward and chill on a beach à la Cippo

[ultraman6970]

Personally he shouldnt have say that, a push is a push and the video shows it... maybe the guys did not push him too much but a push is a push and he just did not say... hey dont touch me or anything.

A push is a push no matter from where is coming from IMO.

To be the world champion brings some stuff up and probably thats why they did not do anything and this have not escalated that much, after all the race is already over.

[John H.]

You bring up a good point- none of these penalties, fines, or DQ's would be happening if they weren't showing up all over the internet.

I believe you. And if it was on video, YouTube, he would've been ragged on by the public. I understand cycling and we now know what could be strewn, streamed and snagged on YouTube. Those videos of Cav's front wheel doing the do-si-do before fans grabbed his seatpost are now in hdtv. It's not the 90's anymore.

:beer:

[jlwdm]

Where did he finish? He didn't finish, that's the point I'm making. I'm not suggesting he's a GC contender. The GC list is the reference to note who is still in the race, and he and several other sprinters aren't there because they took the train out of town when the going got tough.

He's his own golden boy. In the past he's had a tendency to make critical comments about his rivals in GT races. He should shut up and try to finish a few more, as should several other fly boys.

And they should have taken the train out of town. Why should they ride the steep climbs? This is for the good of the team. Plus this is the Giro not the Tour. Ride the early stages and get ready for the Tour.

Each rider has a role.

Jeff

[Earl Gray]

I am sure that he got many pushes and held the car a bunch too.
But that is what sprinters do. he was not the only one.
Cippo got over the Giro climbs the exact same way.
That is what sprinters do.

They should be DQ'd regardless of who pushes them when they accept it that long.

It's cheating.

[Viper]

You bring up a good point- none of these penalties, fines, or DQ's would be happening if they weren't showing up all over the internet.

One man felt that camcorders could defeat Apartheid. He told us about it in the 80's and offered a great, sincere story here:

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_gabriel_fights_injustice_with_video.html

The pelton knows there are now cameras everywhere. Cav was a fool if he didn't know, he now does.

[jpw]

They should be DQ'd regardless of who pushes them when they accept it that long.

It's cheating.

For how long, and how do they say no? "Please don't push me".

So it's like drugs? It defaults to a riders responsibility for what goes in his body, and who pushes his body? That would leave the door wide open for the tifosi (or secret agent) of one rider trying to get a rival disqualified at a critical moment in a GT. Ryder gets a push from a Rodriguez fan up the Passo Dello Stelvio...and then gets disqualified? In retaliation a Canadian fan pushes Rod...and by the end of the day... Guardini(!) is the new GC leader, but no, he got disqualified for taking a car tow, so the pink remains vacant until...forever.

[gemship]

Cav won MSR...he's no climber, but he can get over a "hill"

....and your point is what. No GC guy is going to be within 5 bike lengths of Cav in a sprint. Grant made my point better than I could have.



I was too busy enjoying my life in the real world yesterday, totally forgot about this little place where a few of the same forumites like to toss sand. :bike:

My point is arguable....obviously, I mean you make me laugh. Lost count of all the contradictory posts of yours that I have read in the past, it is kind of funny though. You seem to really live for the debate.
Dude you really need to get away from the computer and ride more. Anyways my point is and this is based only on the same presumptuous beliefs you base your point on that I believe there are more GC style cyclist that can fill a sprinters roll rather than the opposite. You don't like hearing that tough crap go pound sand,although I do suggest riding your bike more and spending less time here:rolleyes:

[Joachim]

I thought this discussion is about Cav? Maybe some of you should go ride the Poggio or the "bergs" of the Ronde van Vlaanderen and then see how fast these "sprinter" types go over those hills. Anyway, Cav got a push, Italians get a push, some nationalities get help from the motorbikes in the Tour. Sometimes the TV helicopter flies too close to the main rival during a TT. Boo-hoo. No one tries to compare Pantani to Zabel to Indurain. Take the sport for what it is.

[cachagua]

He could have saved enough weight to make it up that hill comfortably, if he'd shaved that morning...

They all should. Come on, fellas, show some self-respect! You really want to stand on the podium looking like you neglected your hygiene that way?

And you kids get outta my yard, too! ;-)