Campy Rear Caliper: Dual Pivot, D-Skeleton, or no preference?

[Jeff N.]

Trying to decide which way to go for a new SR build. Dual Pivot is a bit more $. Does it make much difference to y'all? Jeff N.

[handsomerob]

Trying to decide which way to go for a new SR build. Dual Pivot is a bit more $. Does it make much difference to y'all? Jeff N.

dual pivot is easier to set up imho. and I like front to back symmetry.

[buldogge]

DP easier to sit-up/center...SP more than adequate for rear braking. I have both set-ups, most of the newer stuff I have is SP rear...ZERO issues stopping.

FWIW.

-Mark in St. Louis

[Vientomas]

Veloce skeleton dual in front and single on rear on one bike, and Centaur non-skeleton dual front and rear on another bike. I prefer the dual pivots. They seem to have more power and modulation.

[slowgoing]

dual pivots have more stopping power. I want the extra power in the back if I need it. What if your front tire blows out while you're descending a steep grade? If you're still upright, you'll need to rely mostly on the rear brake, and I want mine to bring me to a stop.

[AngryScientist]

i'm running both on different bikes, and they both work fine. set-up is no big seal with the SP, you just need to center it properly the first time. i like the way the SP looks better personally, and i think it's a bit lighter if that matters to you. no problem locking up the rear wheel if you want to with either (in other words, they both have plenty of power when you need it).

to answer the question, i would prefer the SP, but in the end it doesnt matter one bit, once they are set-up, you'll forget what's back there and have no issues.

[oldpotatoe]

Trying to decide which way to go for a new SR build. Dual Pivot is a bit more $. Does it make much difference to y'all? Jeff N.

DP easier to center. SP easier to clean. My demo Waterford R-33/SR bike has DP.

[dana_e]

It does not have as much brake power as I want and is like "anti-lock" rear

I am used to the dual pivot, easier to center

[thwart]

I like the single pivot, differential braking.

I recall 6-7 years ago when I got back into cycling. I had a DuraAce bike and one set up with Campy Record. The DA definitely had a touch more ultimate stopping power, but in heavy or panic braking the rear would want to lock up. The Campy was a revelation by comparison. Hit 'em hard as you want---come to a stop fast with no worry about the rear trying to come around on you.

[Grant McLean]

Trying to decide which way to go for a new SR build. Dual Pivot is a bit more $. Does it make much difference to y'all? Jeff N.

how much do you weigh? is it really hilly where you ride?
what wheels are you using?

The best choice for you personally will depend on a number of variables.

-g

[fuzzalow]

I use a SP/Differential config because IMO it looks cleaner with the SP on the back. The setup of a rear SP is no big deal: 15mm open end wrench to center after the pad actuation level against the rear cable housing length is balanced with the 2mm setscrew.

I don't think the added stopping power of a DP rear is usable in that most of the weight transfer has gone forward under braking. The added clamping power of the DP can't be used if the rear has gone skittish or gone light.

[Bob Ross]

DP easier to center. SP easier to clean.

Crap, that didn't help! :)

[zennmotion]

The SP has a tad more tire clearance, does that help? But it's mostly about marketing.

[thinpin]

Good thread. Was pondering this choice for a new build.

[jds108]

one more vote for SP. IMO, you don't need a dual pivot on the rear, as you don't use as much force on the rear rim.

New campy SPs are easy to adjust side-to-side with the little 2mm allen bolt that adjusts the spring arm.

Either choice will work fine.

[FixedNotBroken]

On my SR equipped rides, both dual pivot. As mentioned above, easier to center and are more than suffice. You'll be happy either way.

[Grant McLean]

dual pivot is easier to set up imho. and I like front to back symmetry.

must look cool with a cassette on your front wheel!

-g

[martinrjensen]

OK, if you blow the front tire while descending fast down hill, I really think you are pretty much screwed no if's and's or buts. You are going to hit the pavement, period. Rear brakes do almost nothing to stop under normal circumstances compared to front brakes. Too much power back there and all you do is skid the rear tire. I will say that dual pivot are easier to center and I won't argue with aesthetics, but stopping power, I don't really think so. Yes there will be exceptions but they are so low on the list. Also how many front flats have you gotten? I have never had any but even if I would have gotten say 1 in 10 on the front, that still would be only one or 2 maybe 3 in I don't know, 20 maybe 30 years? Double that if you want because I'm sure I don't remember many flats 30 years ago. Still, it's not very manydual pivots have more stopping power. I want the extra power in the back if I need it. What if your front tire blows out while you're descending a steep grade? If you're still upright, you'll need to rely mostly on the rear brake, and I want mine to bring me to a stop.

[pdmtong]

Jeff...thanks for posting this. helpful info as I had been wondering the same.

For my purposes I'll go with the SP rear for the next build...I think fuzzalow has it right.

[slowgoing]

You can postulate all you want but I had a blowout on the front while on a steep descent, just barely didn't crash, was glad to have the additional stopping power of the dualie in the back.

OK, if you blow the front tire while descending fast down hill, I really think you are pretty much screwed no if's and's or buts. You are going to hit the pavement, period. Rear brakes do almost nothing to stop under normal circumstances compared to front brakes. Too much power back there and all you do is skid the rear tire. I will say that dual pivot are easier to center and I won't argue with aesthetics, but stopping power, I don't really think so. Yes there will be exceptions but they are so low on the list. Also how many front flats have you gotten? I have never had any but even if I would have gotten say 1 in 10 on the front, that still would be only one or 2 maybe 3 in I don't know, 20 maybe 30 years? Double that if you want because I'm sure I don't remember many flats 30 years ago. Still, it's not very many

[Grant McLean]

....was glad to have the additional stopping power of the dualie in the back.

There is no "additional stopping power" provided by the brake. This is the
same logical flaw that puts people in the ditch during a snow storm.
The limit is tire adhesion on the road.

Any decent brake, single or dual pivot will easily take a rear wheel to the that
limit, it's only a question of how much pressure you have to apply to the brake
lever. The only feature a dual pivot provides is a lighter pull, which in a panic
stop is likely a major disadvantage as the rider is more likely to lock the wheel
and skid.

-g

[slowgoing]

There is no "additional stopping power" provided by the brake. This is the same logical flaw that puts people in the ditch during a snow storm. The limit is tire adhesion on the road.

Not true. Depends on the grade. I was training for a hillclimb doing intevals up a 12% average hill. Over a certain grade, the single pivot wouldn't brake or stop the wheel as well as the dual pivot. The limit was the power of the brake on the wheel, not the adhesion of the tire to the road.

[Mark McM]

Over a certain grade, the single pivot wouldn't brake or stop the wheel as well as the dual pivot. The limit was the power of the brake on the wheel, not the adhesion of the tire to the road.

The grade has nothing to do with it. Any braking (front or rear) results in a weight shift, increasing weight on the front wheel and decreasing weight on the rear wheel. With this de-weight of the rear wheel comes a decrease in rear wheel traction. The harder your brake, the less traction the rear wheel has. At the limit of braking (assuming the front brake only is used) there is essentially no weight on the rear wheel at all.

Due to this un-weighting of the rear wheel, the limit of braking with the rear brake only is the point that the tire begins to skid. This occurs at about 1/2 - 1/3 g, which only about half of the maximum possible braking from the front brake. Just about any type of caliper brake (single or dual pivot) is capable of applying this amount of braking force.

[slowgoing]

The grade has nothing to do with it. Any braking (front or rear) results in a weight shift, increasing weight on the front wheel and decreasing weight on the rear wheel. With this de-weight of the rear wheel comes a decrease in rear wheel traction. The harder your brake, the less traction the rear wheel has. At the limit of braking (assuming the front brake only is used) there is essentially no weight on the rear wheel at all.

Due to this un-weighting of the rear wheel, the limit of braking with the rear brake only is the point that the tire begins to skid. This occurs at about 1/2 - 1/3 g, which only about half of the maximum possible braking from the front brake. Just about any type of caliper brake (single or dual pivot) is capable of applying this amount of braking force.

You'll never convince me. I have experienced it. Single pivots do not not work as well as dual pivots in the back while descending steep grades when they are used alone. You can really feel a loss in stopping power. As for weight shift, the shift is not as significant when braking with the rear as when braking with the front. Also, when you're descending and especially braking at this grade, you've got your weight very heavily shifted backwards already.

[Mark McM]

You'll never convince me. I have experienced it. Single pivots do not not work as well as dual pivots in the back while descending steep grades when they are used alone. You can really feel a loss in stopping power.

Dual pivot brakes have higher leverage, so they require less hand force to reach the maximum braking limit. But single pivot brakes can still easily reach the maximum limit of rear braking. Most people have no problem skidding the rear wheel with single pivot brakes, they would not get more braking force with a dual pivot brake.

As for weight shift, the shift is not as significant when braking with the rear as when braking with the front. Also, when you're descending and especially braking at this grade, you've got your weight very heavily shifted backwards already.

The forward weight shift is proportional the braking force, regardless of whether the front or rear brake is used (its just simple physics). Although you can increase the maximum rear braking force by shifting rider weight rearward, you still can't get anywhere near the maximum braking force from the rear brake as from the front.

The relative ineffectiveness of rear brakes is not unique to bicycles - motorcycles experience the same affects. This is why you'll often see much larger front brakes than rear brakes on motorcycles. In the case of racing motorcycles, which brake close to their limits for each corner, you'll sometimes see two large disc brakes on the front wheel, and only a single small disc on the rear (which is analogous to Campagnolo's dual pivot front/single pivot rear differential brakes). An example is this Ducati:

http://bikecardekho.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ducati_monster_696_red-normal.jpg

[cmbicycles]

I am near 200lbs and have never had an issue where my single pivot brakes didn't have enough stopping power. Obviously some people have their experiences on either, but barring a few freak circumstances I don't think you will notice a difference between a SP or DP rear brake.

IMHO rear "brakes" are essentially just speed controllers, the front brake is where the stopping power is for cars, motorcycle, bicycles, big wheels... well although the single pivot brake lever on my big wheel had pretty awesome skid power, a properly manufactured dual pivot front brake would have saved a few close calls. :)