Shimergo experience?

[GPrince]

I've been running 10 sp ergo levers (Centaur old style, centaur new style, and veloce new style) with ultegra and dura ace rear derailleurs (8 speed shimano drive train). I also run 9 sp record levers to 9 speed record. (too many bikes!)

The action seems a bit degraded with this setup. It seems to require more force to shift.

Anyone else have similar experience?

Thx.

[christian]

I could never get it to work satisfactorily.

[DHallerman]

I've been running 10 sp ergo levers (Centaur old style, centaur new style, and veloce new style) with ultegra and dura ace rear derailleurs (8 speed shimano drive train). I also run 9 sp record levers to 9 speed record. (too many bikes!)

The action seems a bit degraded with this setup. It seems to require more force to shift.

Anyone else have similar experience?


Between my and my wife's bikes, we run several with Campy Ergo shifters and Shimano cassette/rear derailleur -- and they all index smoothly.

I use the JTek Engineering ShiftMate (http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm) to make the two companies' parts work together. That sometimes means some fiddling right after installing it, and sometimes after a ride or two, to get to that smooth indexing.

But once they're working in sync, the Campy/Shimano combo seems to stay in sync.

We have both 9-speed and 10-speed Campy Ergo shifting various 9-speed Shimano cassettes/rear derailleurs, both road and mountain.

I'm delighted with those setups, especially since the Campy Ergo front shifter allows me to use nearly any front derailleur and cranks/chainring combos.

Dave, who thinks of the ShiftMate as the "freedom gizmo" and who remembers that you have not had success with it Christian which makes his inner mechanic curious about the differences

[GRAVELBIKE]

I've been running 10 sp ergo levers (Centaur old style, centaur new style, and veloce new style) with ultegra and dura ace rear derailleurs (8 speed shimano drive train). I also run 9 sp record levers to 9 speed record. (too many bikes!)

The action seems a bit degraded with this setup. It seems to require more force to shift.

Anyone else have similar experience?

Thx.

The latest-generation Campy shifters seem to have a lighter touch and require less force. FWIW, I run modified SRAM rear mechs with Campy Centaur levers.

[Marburg]

I run 9spd Campy ( Ergo + Rear Der ) + Shimano (Cassette/Hub) both with and without a Shiftmate. I can't say if there's an appreciable difference in actuation force as my shifters are of varying grades w/ and w/o BBs, and in varying states of getting slack.

W/o a shiftmate things start out well, but I tend to develop a gear or two (typically in the middle of the cassette) which I can't hit reliably w/o a half-shift, typically when moving up the cassette.

W/ a shiftmate I've had no such problems.

[AgilisMerlin]

Between my and my wife's bikes, we run several with Campy Ergo shifters and Shimano cassette/rear derailleur -- and they all index smoothly.

I use the JTek Engineering ShiftMate (http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm) to make the two companies' parts work together. That sometimes means some fiddling right after installing it, and sometimes after a ride or two, to get to that smooth indexing.

But once they're working in sync, the Campy/Shimano combo seems to stay in sync.




I am a jtek convert myself. Perfecto' as in perfect
dura ace 7700/chorus 10 mixture
a riding delight

[sg8357]

Jtek using Campy shifter & derailers with Shimano hubs, works very well.

[AngryScientist]

The latest-generation Campy shifters seem to have a lighter touch and require less force. FWIW, I run modified SRAM rear mechs with Campy Centaur levers.

i'm with him on this one. i'm running current gen Centaur shifters with a mod'd sram mid-cage RD, shifting is good.

[tbike4]

I'm delighted with those setups, especially since the Campy Ergo front shifter allows me to use nearly any front derailleur and cranks/chainring combos.]

Ok, newb question here. Besides the above advantage why do I want to go this route on my next setup? Right now I have 2 bikes with 9 speed Dura Ace and I must admit I have only used Ergo's once.

[Ramjm_2000]

Been using a Campy ergos with a Rival RD and a Miche Shimano Cassette for a little over a year on my commutter. Outside of a bit of oversift towards the upper-middle of the cassette no issues. About to try a SRAM cassette with some spacers on my new Cooper CX Disk.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I'll be going 95% Campy (RD and all) with the SRAM cassette. The I'll be using Ergotts methodology on King ISO Disk hubs.l

[DHallerman]

Ok, newb question here. Besides the above advantage why do I want to go this route on my next setup? Right now I have 2 bikes with 9 speed Dura Ace and I must admit I have only used Ergo's once.

Okay, now we're venturing into religious territory -- that is, why are Campy Ergo shifters better than Shimano STI shifters.

My take on the matter:


Campy is more logical. You press the small lever to go to smaller cogs and the large lever to go to larger cogs. With Shimano, you have the press the lever behind the brake lever...what's up with that. I've not found that as functional.

Campy is easier. That small lever for smaller cogs is easy to reach when riding on the hoods. Not the same for Shimano.

Campy is more flexible. I can use nearly any front derailleur and crankset combo with Campy Ergo. Shimano really only works well with Shimano front derailleurs.

Campy is wide. That is, when I combine the quick release built into Ergo levers with a brake's quick release (I don't use Campy brakes), I can readily get even a fatter tire off the bike. Shimano levers do not have a quick release built in.

Campy is more comfortable. Okay, subjective territory here, but I find the wide Campy hoods make my hands happier. (And don't most people do most of their rides on the hoods?)

Campy is rebuildable. All parts break-down over time, and the more costly the part, the more that hurts. But Campy can be rebuilt and, unless things have changed, that's not true for Shimano STI.

That's my short list. And hey, look, I'm not really a fanatic, since I much prefer Shimano rear derailleurs and cassettes, partially because that's what I have and mainly because of the mountain cassettes, which give me a wide range in 9-speed (enough speeds for me) to combine with my compact 48/34 cranksets.

Dave, who is very curious what others will add to or debate about this topic

[cmg]

parts are readly available on eBay. mixing manufactuers isn't necessary. the shifters and rear derailluer should be from the same manufactuer. i'll cobble different generations of the same, record with chorus or veloce shifter/rear derailluer and use dura ace/ultrega brakes but thats as far as it will go.

[Ramjm_2000]

parts are readly available on eBay. mixing manufactuers isn't necessary. the shifters and rear derailluer should be from the same manufactuer. i'll cobble different generations of the same, record with chorus or veloce shifter/rear derailluer and use dura ace/ultrega brakes but thats as far as it will go.

It is if your using a shimano disk hub body.

[mtechnica]

I wasn't able to get my campy drivetrain to shift that great with a shimano 10 speed cassette and a shiftmate. Going to a campy cassette and no shiftmate improved shifting IMO.

[Ramjm_2000]

I would certainly hope a Campy Cassette on a Campy Drivetrain would be better. :)

[mtechnica]

I would certainly hope a Campy Cassette on a Campy Drivetrain would be better. :)

Well, in theory the shiftmate should have made it index perfectly but campy 10sp is already sensitive to cable friction issues and the shiftmate doesn't help in that regard. I couldn't get it to shift consistently in both chainrings without having to over shift sometimes. I will admit that it could have been user error but I doubt it since I put in some real effort trying to make it shift right and the only thing that fixed it was a campy rear wheel and cassette. This leads me to believe that the shiftmate either adds a substantial amount of friction to the system or that the resulting pull ratio is in fact not perfect. The pivot of the pulley itself probably isn't causing friction but those of you that have used a shiftmate have probably noticed that the design is slightly strange in that the cable housing does not actually plug into both sides of the shiftmate and it is partially held in line by cable tension.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Well, in theory the shiftmate should have made it index perfectly but campy 10sp is already sensitive to cable friction issues and the shiftmate doesn't help in that regard. I couldn't get it to shift consistently in both chainrings without having to over shift sometimes. I will admit that it could have been user error but I doubt it since I put in some real effort trying to make it shift right and the only thing that fixed it was a campy rear wheel and cassette. This leads me to believe that the shiftmate either adds a substantial amount of friction to the system or that the resulting pull ratio is in fact not perfect. The pivot of the pulley itself probably isn't causing friction but those of you that have used a shiftmate have probably noticed that the design is slightly strange in that the cable housing does not actually plug into both sides of the shiftmate and it is partially held in line by cable tension.

I could never get the ShiftMate to work correctly. It's like the pulley and cable would lose "synchronization," or something.

[Ramjm_2000]

I originally used a shiftmate and didn't notice any significant change from just running an Rival RD w/ ergos. Keeping my fingers crossed using some purposely placed .3mm spacers on a full campy build with King Hubs.

[GRAVELBIKE]

It is if your using a shimano disk hub body.

I run Shimergo (more like CampSRAMano, in my case) on two bikes. Both bikes have 135mm rear spacing, and one has disk brakes. This reduces component choices somewhat, but really throws things for a loop is the desire to run 9-speed cogs/chains. Why 9-speed? Cheaper, longer-lasting cogs/chains (nearly all my rides include some dirt roads/trails).

[zennmotion]

I run two cyclocross race bikes with centaur 10sp shifters, Ultegra (600) rear derailleurs and Shimano/SRAM 8 speed 12/13-27 cassettes, no JTEK or modifications necessary, they shift consistently without any issues. After some fiddling, I found the best setup was to have one ghost shift at the high end, one at the low end. 8 speed is a great way to go for cross, wider spacing between the cassette cogs in the crud, stronger chains and replacement drivetrain parts are much cheaper.

I run Centaur/Veloce 10sp shifters on two road bikes with Ultegra 6700 derailleur, 9 speed Shimano/SRAM 11-25 or 27 cassettes. This combination requires an alternative rear derailleur cable routing as detailed here (http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946). In my experience, this works flawlessly-- until it doesn't. After a few hard rides, I find that the cable slips ever slightly with the alternative cable routing at the pinch bolt on the derailleur and shifting isn't as crisp. It's not a big deal (for me anyway) as it's easily fixed- even on the road by adjusting the pinch bolt again. I've run it like that for several years, but I finally decided to spring the big bucks for a $40 JTEK converter (model 2)- I just mounted it a couple of weeks ago, so far so good.

One bit of experience I had in setting these up is that Ergo shifters are a little more sensitive to friction in the cable run than the (older) external cable Shimanos. My first attempts at Shimergo were less than perfect because of cable routing/binding at the handlebar end. Get everything slipping through the cable housing smoothly and Shimergo is the best of both worlds.

[that guy]

10 speed levers with 8 speed cassettes worked better than 9 speed for me.

I mean, it will never be perfect, but it's usable.

I think all three major grouppos have limitations. Not really happy with any of them at the moment....

[zennmotion]

10 speed levers with 8 speed cassettes worked better than 9 speed for me.

I mean, it will never be perfect, but it's usable.

I think all three major grouppos have limitations. Not really happy with any of them at the moment....

Yup, what he said, Campy 10/Shimano 8 has been better than useable for me, no complaints.

[mistermo]

I run modified SRAM rear mechs with Campy Centaur levers.

i'm with him on this one. i'm running current gen Centaur shifters with a mod'd sram mid-cage RD, shifting is good.

What is meant by "modified" SRAM RDs? What mod must be made?

[sjpitts]

My wife's Lemond uses 10 speed campy ergo shifters with 9 speed shimano RD and cassette, and the "hubbub" cable routing. It is working pretty good IMHO.

I tried to summarize the various campy/shimano combinations here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=106234

the one she is using is option "A"

I think several of these work pretty good. But in the end I will probably move her bike to full campy.

Jared

[zennmotion]

This is about the best source I've found, more than you need to know to make it work, or not.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946

[sam.g]

Not to hijack the thread, but I've been contemplating replacing my worn D/A 7700 triple 9 speed shifters with Campy 10 speed Ergo.

I've read that all "modern" Campy Ergo shifters are double and triple compatible. So could Campy 10 speed ergo shifters work with the balance of my Shimano 9 speed triple drive train? J-Tek recommends their #2 shiftmate for this application?

Has anyone successfully run a triple Campy/shimano setup using the J-Tek shiftmate?

Sam in Cincy

[DHallerman]

Not to hijack the thread, but I've been contemplating replacing my worn D/A 7700 triple 9 speed shifters with Campy 10 speed Ergo.

I've read that all "modern" Campy Ergo shifters are double and triple compatible. So could Campy 10 speed ergo shifters work with the balance of my Shimano 9 speed triple drive train? J-Tek recommends their #2 shiftmate for this application?

Has anyone successfully run a triple Campy/shimano setup using the J-Tek shiftmate?

Sam in Cincy

Yes, the "modern" (post 2001 at least) Campy Ergo shifters do double or triple with equal aplomb.

Has anyone? (yes me, see posts earlier in this thread).

Dave, who uses both 9-speed and 10-speed Campy Ergo

[LouDeeter]

I use Campagnolo Record 10 shifters with 7 speed freewheels. Just set it up where it shifts well in the middle few gears that you usually use. Sometimes you have to shift twice on the extremes, but I've gotten it to work. I would think 8 speed would be similar. I also don't find any issues with the types of rear derailleurs. I think that the shifter controls the amount of movement anyway. I have not tried Campagnolo 9 speed with Shimano 9 speed cassettes without using the shift mate. Perhaps I should.

[GRAVELBIKE]

What is meant by "modified" SRAM RDs? What mod must be made?

daVinci sells the modified SRAM derailleurs:

http://www.davincitandems.com/comp.html#der

[ronlau]

Too bad they don't make an index wheel that works with Shimano. I bet that will sell like hot cakes. Having Ergo that shifts Shimano perfectly, man...

[AgilisMerlin]

Campagano

whatever that's worth :D

[tmf]

I just switched my Colorado III from Dura Ace 9 to Chorus 10. I have several nice Shimano-splined 9sp wheels that I wanted to continue to use, and I also built up a set of new wheels based on Campy 10sp hubs. So, for me, the better option was to use the Campy-spaced/Shimano-splined conversion cassettes instead of the Shiftmate. I'm currently using a Wheels Mfg 10sp cassette on one of my Dura Ace hubs and it works perfectly - shifts smoothly up & down.

I've recently found Ambrosio cassettes that are available for pretty reasonable prices (about $70-80 shipped) from some shops in the UK. Has anyone used one of these? I'm thinking about getting one to make another rear wheel useable on my Campy 10 bike.

As someone else mentioned, I'm continuing to use my Shimano brake calipers with the Campy levers so I can swap between wheels with varying width rims more easily. The Shimano calipers over incremental adjustments vs. the Campy all-or-nothing lever.

[wombatspeed]

Here are a couple of Shimergo varieties that I have run

1. 10 Speed Ergo with 9 speed Shimano/SRAM cassettes and 9 speed shimano RD with hubbub routing.
This has been nothing short of perfect (if we take a full campy drivetrain as scoring 'perfect') over many - and many muddy - miles on 3 cyclocross bikes, 2 tandems and a road bike.
The different varieties of this combination included: 2006 old style Centaur shifters, 2009 soft clicking Veloces, 2010 harder clicking Veloces, 2005 Xenon QS; various short, long and MTB RDs.
Notes: the hubbub routing can be a bit fiddly to set up in the first instance. if it doesn't shift perfectly then you didn't quite get the angle of the clamping right. Once it's perfect, snug it down nice and tight. Set up like that nothing ever moved or stopped working for me over several years.
The newer style Ergos (2009 onwards) are more finnicky. Just be really anal about getting the cable routing right and frictionless - then they work as well as the pre 2009 shifters.

2. 10 Speed Ergo, 9 speed shimano cassette, 10 speed Campy RD --> no good at all.

3. 10 Speed Ergo (2006 centaur), 10 speed shimano cassette, 9 speed shimano RD combined with appropriate shiftmate (forget which number) --> perfect. No issues

4. same as 3. but with 10 speed Campy RD and other, appropriate shiftmate --> again perfect.

Overall, I recommend the pre 2007 Ergos for this. But I prefer the new hoods and with careful installation they work, too.

Hope this helps some of you sitting on the fence, scoping your options.

PS: Since this thread has been all about 8/9/10 speed and I have a question about 11 speed compatibility I will start a new thread for that>