"The Frame Disappears Beneath You"

[KevinK]

For me, that line was the epitome of advertising hype. I mean, I've owned a bike shop, raced in the mid-80's and rode many, many different high quality frames. No frame ever felt like it "disappeared" beneath me when riding. Frames were quick, twitchy, soft, stiff, stable, harsh or comfortable. Frames felt fragile or bombproof. Frames tracked well or needed constant rider input. For years I rode a steel Colnago Mexico from the lat 70's that I still love. It was light, quick, twichy, and exhibited considerable flex in the BB when climbing and sprinting.

Several months ago I decided that I didn't want to subject it to anymore abuse from training, so I got a well used Serotta Colorado Legend CR, put on my bar/stem and seat/seatpost from the Colnago. I immediately felt the difference. Heavier, very stable, and very stiff in the BB. Every climb I made, every sprint was like "wow, this is stiff!" Everytime I decended I thought "great stability!". I loved it, and I expected the Legend CR to be my last high end frame. Steel is real.

Then, about a month ago, I acquired a barely used Serotta Classique Ti in my size. I wasn't looking for another bike, especially a non-steel frame, but this one sorta found me. So I thought I'd give it a shot. I switched my bars, stem, seat and post from the CR to the Classique Ti. I spent the past month taking it on my favorite training rides, routes and climbs, as well as a 94 mile group ride and a 60 mile solo training ride. Know what? I don't recall ever thinking about what the frame was or wasn't doing, how it felt, steered, accelerated, climbed or tracked. When I am riding it, the frame "disappears", meaning it seems completely transparent to everything else that is going on. When friends ask how it rides, I tell them that it rides great, but it is hard for me to articulate why. Its stiff, comfortable, quick, light, stable, climbs well, corners and decends well, its light without feeling fragile. Its all that, but there aren't any specific characteristics of the frame that merit either criticism or exuberance. Perhaps this one particular frame is the perfect ally for my size, shape and riding style. What ever it is, I am enjoying the ride tremendously. The Classique Ti is not very high on the Serotta food chain. It is a discontinued, entry level, straight guage Ti frame. But that matters not a bit. The disappearing frame exists, and I have it.

Kevin

[Smiley]

Kevin , don't buy a Lengend Ti , it will probably blow you away :banana:

[Fixed]

Bro that happened to me. boy did that hurt when I hit the ground. Cheers :beer:

[Serotta PETE]

Kevin, that was a great note. Every Serotta I have had since the 70s has exhibited that same type of "wow" for me.

Smiley is right about the Legend Ti. It is my all time favorite, even today.

I agree with you that it might be my size, riding style and frame have formed a union BUT all I can say is Serotta has always been the "perfect" union for me.


Wishing you many miles of pleasant riding>.......PETE

[bironi]

Just curious about that perfect frame to body match a couple of you mentioned. I see many large frames on this forum.

Thanks
Byron

[Fixed]

Just curious about that perfect frame to body match a couple of you mentioned. I see many large frames on this forum.

Thanks
Byron
Bro it's called the French fit for old rec. riders who are smart and rich but still love bikes and to ride. Dude anything wrong with that not in my book these are some of the nicest cats around.Cheers :beer:

[KevinK]

The Classique Ti is 52cm. It is "French fit" with a level TT. I am 5'7"

Kevin

[Ray]

I used the same term in my initial glowing reviews of my Spectrum ti and was mildly ridiculed for it. I guess I either hadn't seen it used in advertising hype or had buried the memory and wrote about my bike using the biggest cliche in the book. But the damn thing about cliches is there's usually some truth to them. I've had several bike frames and a few that I've really loved, but the Spectrum was the first time I had that "bike - what bike?" feeling. I still like riding a couple of my other bikes to be reminded what if feels like to have an actual bicycle along for the ride, but most of the time I go for the total transparency of the custom. I guess that's one of the goals of a well fitted custom bike.

-Ray

[Argos]

Kevin,

That's a great post. Glad you are enjoying your bike so much. You articulated perfectly the things we try to put into words for our bikes.

Jason

[Sandy]

What Argos said.

Sandy

[Ti Designs]

Did it always feel that way?

I find that the bike "disappears beneath me" after a few years of riding it and I know what it's reaction is going to be for anything I do. I note things that don't work like I want them to (mostly that coasting up hill thing), but what started feeling like riding on the moon turns into my bike after a while. I just took out my fixed gear again (it's September...) and I notice everything about that bike. Slow handeling, heavy wheels, no freewheel... In a month or two I'll forget all my complaints and just ride it.

[Fixed]

Did it always feel that way?

I find that the bike "disappears beneath me" after a few years of riding it and I know what it's reaction is going to be for anything I do. I note things that don't work like I want them to (mostly that coasting up hill thing), but what started feeling like riding on the moon turns into my bike after a while. I just took out my fixed gear again (it's September...) and I notice everything about that bike. Slow handeling, heavy wheels, no freewheel... In a month or two I'll forget all my complaints and just ride it.
Bro I agree that happens to me too. good point. Cheers

[Ray]

Did it always feel that way?

I find that the bike "disappears beneath me" after a few years of riding it and I know what it's reaction is going to be for anything I do. I note things that don't work like I want them to (mostly that coasting up hill thing), but what started feeling like riding on the moon turns into my bike after a while. I just took out my fixed gear again (it's September...) and I notice everything about that bike. Slow handeling, heavy wheels, no freewheel... In a month or two I'll forget all my complaints and just ride it.
I know what you mean, but I think Kevin was talking about something different, and I know I was visa vis the Spectrum. My favorite bike for years has been a Rivendell Road that I still LOVE. It became MY BIKE and I knew exactly what to expect from it. But I'm always aware of it, of it's particular type of handling (that I used to just call stable but I now think is more subtle than that but I can't really describe it), of the particular way it feels climbing in the saddle, and of the really wonderful feeling it has just honking along on the flats. As long as I have other bikes to compare it occasionally, I'm always aware of it's particular characteristics.

The Spectrum is different - not better but definitely different. It felt completely transparent from the first ride, maybe the second. And now when I ride it, I literally just don't think about it until after the ride when it occurs to me that it just does everything well. I just did one of my two favorite local centuries on it today and I was literally just about unaware of the bike I was on despite a lot of tough climbing, some very fast and technical desents, and a lot tight fast corners, lot of them on very rough surfaces. I've done this ride on the Riv probably 8 times and I ALWAYS remember thinking about the bike's characteristics during the ride. Just doesn't seem to happen with the Spectrum. Can't explain it, but there it is.

FWIW, I remember sort of feeling this way with a Merckx ti I used to have, except that I was never all that comfortable on the bike, so I ultimately became very aware of that. But the ride and handling were very neutral in a way sort of similar to the Spectrum, but not quite to the same degree of transparency.

-Ray