Grant Petersen on NPR

[vqdriver]

here's a transcript of the short interview on NPR for ride to work day.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=152945439

pretty brief but has some common sense advice i wish some cyclists would accept.

[oldpotatoe]

here's a transcript of the short interview on NPR for ride to work day.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=152945439

pretty brief but has some common sense advice i wish some cyclists would accept.

He sure seems to have some problem with wearing 'racing clothes' on a 'racing bike'. He seems to ignore the fact that the 'racing clothes' are more comfy and useable than shorts and a t shirt(rear pockets, padded bibs, etc). And the bicycle works well to 'get you there'. Nothing wrong with an urban look with a fat tired, rack/fender equipped, go anywhere in any weather bicycle but to 'commute', that isn't necessarily needed. I commute to work, ride about 1 1.5 hours, go to work, ride home. In 'racing clothes', on my MXLeader or Moots. I don't think you have to critisize anybody for riding a bicycle somewhere for any reason that doesn't match Mr Petersen's idea of what a 'cyclist' 'should' be.

[laupsi]

I was intrigued by some of the comments on this forum about his latest book, "Just Ride" and decided to read it. I am almost half way through.

My opinion up to this point: GP is writing from an angle that is new and controversial. Other than that, I really DO NOT AGREE w/much of what he says. Granted many of his maxims have relevance and are true, I find just as many not relevant and entirely untrue or missing critical points in his arguments that makes them unworthy of his opinion.

Nothing that he writes is earth shattering; I am thinking by the time I am finished w/the book, nothing read will be absorbed or found to be thought provoking enough to warrant me to recommend to others.

Just my $.02, Cheers!

[Bob Loblaw]

I get his point, I think. He's saying that unless you want to race, a racing bike is the wrong bike for you and cycling clothes are superfluous. To a large extent I do agree with that, and I think there are a lot of people out there who are uncomfortable on their bike (or not riding at all) because they bought something expensive that they don't like riding.

I disagree about the clothing. As OP said, it is much more comfortable. I would ride a few miles in street clothes, but not ten. Too much risk to the undercarriage.

BL

[oldpotatoe]

I get his point, I think. He's saying that unless you want to race, a racing bike is the wrong bike for you and cycling clothes are superfluous. To a large extent I do agree with that, and I think there are a lot of people out there who are uncomfortable on their bike (or not riding at all) because they bought something expensive that they don't like riding.

I disagree about the clothing. As OP said, it is much more comfortable. I would ride a few miles in street clothes, but not ten. Too much risk to the undercarriage.

BL

Well, that's cuz the bike doesn't fit, not because it's a 'racing bicycle'. I have a pair of shoes I don't wear, cuz they don't fit. It's not because they are loafers.

How many people wear 'tennis shoes' everyday or 'hiking shoes', they aren't playing tennis or hiking. A 'racing bicycle', can be just fine getting there, no need to say it should be changed to some strange idea of a purpose driven bicycle he imagines.

It's like saying if you don't haul 500 pounds of stuff, you shouldn't drive a truck...silly.

[Bob Loblaw]

True. If you are looking for a bike to ride 6 miles to work or to run errands on, you absolutely could spend $3500 on a used Trek Madone, Spend another few hundred to put a gel saddle on it, 28c tires (the largest it would take), a riser stem, platform pedals, P-Clamp a rack on there and kludge a chainguard onto the carbon crankset. Or, you could spend $700 on a nice hybird, brand new with a warranty, that already has all that stuff.

There are people who buy racing bikes who would be better served by a hybrid. Less expensive, better ride, more upright position.

To turn your argument around on you, you could take a Porsche Boxster on a camping trip around the western United States, but it would be more comfortable and cheaper in a Toyota 4Runner.

BL

Well, that's cuz the bike doesn't fit, not because it's a 'racing bicycle'. I have a pair of shoes I don't wear, cuz they don't fit. It's not because they are loafers.

How many people wear 'tennis shoes' everyday or 'hiking shoes', they aren't playing tennis or hiking. A 'racing bicycle', can be just fine getting there, no need to say it should be changed to some strange idea of a purpose driven bicycle he imagines.

It's like saying if you don't haul 500 pounds of stuff, you shouldn't drive a truck...silly.

ETA: This is actually the reason (one of them) I failed as a bicycle salesperson. I would always try to sell people the bike I felt they needed rather than what they wanted, and nine times out of ten that meant trying to talk them out of the top end bikes and into something more practical. People don't want to hear that the 'best' (i.e., most expensive) bike is not right for them.

[laupsi]

perphaps I am taking things I "know" for granted? I have been riding a two wheeled bike since I was 3 yrs old, currently 46. I know one can ride w/out bike jerseys and riding shoes and a fancy racing bike. Are there folks out there who don't know this? How is this worthy of a book?

Often times I ride around my neighborhood on my very expensive racing bike just a often as I ride my 15 year old Stump Jumper. I do this in sandles or in shorts or even my work clothes. I do this after work, before we eat dinner, when I don't have time to do a longer ride. I find this totally acceptable to do w/out all the gear on either bike. Why is there a book out there telling me this is okay?

Honestly I think some things get too much coverage/attention. Other than GP's suggestion that kids and adults a like should learn how to ride on a two wheeler w/out pedals/cranks nothing in this book is "speaking" to me as useful information.

I enjoy going fast w/out interuption and w/out the fear I am going to get tangled up w/pedestrians and/or dog walkers and young children. I don't swerve when riding in traffic because I don't have to. I know if a car is going to run me down there's really nothing I can do once I make the decision to ride on the road. (thankfully I am still "hit" free, knocking on my proverbial piece of wood as I write this...). I also know drunk drivers drive in all types of vehichles, not only the ones decsribed in this book. As do drivers who have not intention of running over a cyclist but do so regardless due to circumstances none of us have any control over. Really, if we ride like inexperienced cyclists we're less likely to be hit???

[redir]

I rode my Moots racing bike to work this morning in my full team kit, 5 miles, nice recovery from the 115 mile ride I did on Saturday. GP can eat my shorts. Actually he'd be proud that I have a bell on my racing bike when I commute on it.

[tiretrax]

He's go the right logic - use the proper bike for the proper type of riding. I find his logic is flawed, in part, IMHO, because he seems to be biased against racing bikes.

1 mile or 10, when it's hot and humid, I am going to be sweating. Wearing long pants and hard soled shoes would be ridiculous. Also, work shoes with leather soles (or a woman's heeled shoe, in the case of a female rider) aren't good for commuting if one has to stop and plant a foot, say at a red light.

When I do ride to work, I combine it with my trainig ride - taking it either in the a.m., p.m., or both, since I live less than 5 miles from my office. Fortunately, I can leave fresh clothes at my office and have a shower to use. My friends who ride to work do likewise.

[vqdriver]

well, i haven't read his book or his blog or whatever else he has out there, so i'm basing this strictly on his npr interview. but really, it isn't that big of a deal to point out that "some" commuters are using the wrong tool for the job. if someone walked into your shop to buy a commuting bike and was clearly not intending to race, would you really push a race bike ? clothes and kit are kind of a personal preference thing so i'm cool either way with that, tho let's be honest, it can be silly to spend more time kitting up and changing at the office than actually spend riding on your commute. it's this illogical approach that cycling has to be some type of "event" that could stand in the way of some commuters from adopting it as a real alternative.

i think his point is that cycling doesn't have to be an "event", it can quite easily just blend into our daily lives without major disruption to our routines and if people didn't think it was that big of a deal cycling would become more commonplace.

ymmv fwiw and all that. at least that's what i got from the piece....

[MattTuck]

If you live on a pancake that is perpetually 55-60 degrees, with a tail wind... or you have abnormal body chemistry in which you don't sweat or your sweat or you don't smell after sweating, I can see possibly riding 10 miles to work in what you're going to wear all day.

If you live in the real world, with hills, and B.O. and seams in the crotch of khaki pants, I'd suggest wearing cycling specific clothes with a shower or quick rub down with an alcohol wipe before putting on your office attire.

That said, people should do what works for them. There's no reason to do something that doesn't work well for you just because other people do it.

[onsight512]

[snip], people should do what works for them. There's no reason to do something that doesn't work well for you just because other people do it.

Exactly.

[laupsi]

well, i haven't read his book or his blog or whatever else he has out there, so i'm basing this strictly on his npr interview. but really, it isn't that big of a deal to point out that "some" commuters are using the wrong tool for the job. if someone walked into your shop to buy a commuting bike and was clearly not intending to race, would you really push a race bike ? clothes and kit are kind of a personal preference thing so i'm cool either way with that, tho let's be honest, it can be silly to spend more time kitting up and changing at the office than actually spend riding on your commute. it's this illogical approach that cycling has to be some type of "event" that could stand in the way of some commuters from adopting it as a real alternative.

i think his point is that cycling doesn't have to be an "event", it can quite easily just blend into our daily lives without major disruption to our routines and if people didn't think it was that big of a deal cycling would become more commonplace.

ymmv fwiw and all that. at least that's what i got from the piece....

Baltimore has a fairly large cycling commuter population. I see folks every day riding their bikes to work. I rarely if ever see anyone riding to work on a racing bike as though they're racing some UCI sanctioned event. My take on this guy is that he wrote his book simply to sell books. He's got nothing new to say and he doesn't say what is not new but still relevant.

[benb]

Anyone commuting 10 miles is probably an outlier..

He is talking about people in urban areas.. most of them are not going very far, most city centers are not terribly hilly, and most of the time you're stopping at lights. You can do that without getting sweaty.

I did do a 10 mile commute when I was younger on a city bike.. I didn't have a job that required dressing up but I was able to do it without getting terribly sweaty.

I don't think he is necessarily targeting the insecure guy on a $10000 race bike in Assos/Rapha who has never raced.. but if you look around in the city a lot of the casual riders are indeed on (old) race frames.

[flydhest]

My commute is 2.4 miles, through the center of the Nation's capital, and I often do it on my Legend. I should be ashamed.

[LesMiner]

I am new to the commuting by bike. When train and bus service expanded to my area I have been able to take the train with my bike. So I ride about 4 miles to the station and 1 mile to the office building. I have the option after work to do the 29 miles home or take the train. I had planned on a hybird type bike for communting, I have a 20 yesr old Gary Fisher, but since riding a road bike exclusively for years riding the hybird does not do it. In the morning I have a little anxiety over getting to the station in time. So I get warmed up but not a real sweat. I started the first week of March so that meant riding in the dark and temperature just above freezing, 34 degrees.

I had to change some work habits. I do not try to carry a complete office with me. Leave the laptop and other stuff at the office. I have other means of computer access at home. Get a reasonable sized messenger bag and learn to pack it. Roll up pants and shirts, that way you avoid wrinkles. Keep another pair of shoes at work, do not try to carry any. Learn to dress to deal with a possible 40 degree temperature change from morning to late afternoon. Create a safe route. My 29 mile route crosses two rivers, a major 4 lane highway, and city traffic. I have a few left turns on busy roads. Many times rather than a left turn I will go straight accross the intersection and then across the cross street. So I use low traffic residential streets and bike paths where I can. Commuters in cars are not forgiving so caution is a big deal.

Given all that, it does not seem like GP has any knowledge or real experience about commuting by bike. On the train I do see a variety of mountain bikes, cross bikes, hybird bikes, road bikes and even one recumbent. Anything from an expensive road bike to something from a police auction for abandoned bikes. All but one wears a helmet. All have figured out a means to carry what they need and a suitable bike for how they ride.

[Earl Gray]

.....Are there folks out there who don't know this....

Absolutely, 100% yes! Most cyclist (this includes us forum members) greatly over value what our equipment does for us.

I've have lead many C paced rides with the average age rider above 55. We do 15-16 MPH on flat land and stop at every stop sign. Every single accident that there has been on my rides is because the rider was clipped in. There is NO benefit to these riders by being clipped in. None, zero, zilch, nada. They were done a complete disservice when they were sold those pedals and shoes.


I don't think he is talking to true racers or commuters. He is talking to the other 90% of the cycling population.

True racers and daily commuters work it out for themselves and do what works for them. However, they really are a very, very small portion of the cycling population.

I fully buy into what Grant is selling (figuratively) and I'm often perplexed by the way other cyclist chose to ride and dress.

Based solely on my personnel experience, cycling specific clothes provide no benefit. If I'm doing a road group ride, I don them and clip in because it comforts those that I'm riding with, not because they help me.

I often do 30-50 mile rides in jean shorts with boxers and have Zero issues. My confidence on any ride is enhanced by not being clipped in and I consistently move my feet around on the pedals. I suspect my pedal stroke is enhanced by not being clipped in.

However, I have come to conclude that I'm the exception and not the norm. Not better or worse, just different.

Very selfishly, I've also concluded that I don’t really want more riders to ride like I do.

[nighthawk]

I just listened to the NPR piece, and it seems like his comments about 'race' bikes was more directed toward people potentially new to cycling and cycle-commuting, assuming that people might be intimidated by the need to dress a certain way or have a certain type of bike. I really doubt he wants everyone to ditch their bib shorts and carbon bikes... Just trying to get more people riding.. That's my take on it anyway... But I'm pretty hard to offend.

[laupsi]

Absolutely, 100% yes! Most cyclist (this includes us forum members) greatly over value what our equipment does for us.

I've have lead many C paced rides with the average age rider above 55. We do 15-16 MPH on flat land and stop at every stop sign. Every single accident that there has been on my rides is because the rider was clipped in. There is NO benefit to these riders by being clipped in. None, zero, zilch, nada. They were done a complete disservice when they were sold those pedals and shoes.


I don't think he is talking to true racers or commuters. He is talking to the other 90% of the cycling population.

True racers and daily commuters work it out for themselves and do what works for them. However, they really are a very, very small portion of the cycling population.

I fully buy into what Grant is selling (figuratively) and I'm often perplexed by the way other cyclist chose to ride and dress.

Based solely on my personnel experience, cycling specific clothes provide no benefit. If I'm doing a road group ride, I don them and clip in because it comforts those that I'm riding with, not because they help me.

I often do 30-50 mile rides in jean shorts with boxers and have Zero issues. My confidence on any ride is enhanced by not being clipped in and I consistently move my feet around on the pedals. I suspect my pedal stroke is enhanced by not being clipped in.

However, I have come to conclude that I'm the exception and not the norm. Not better or worse, just different.

Very selfishly, I've also concluded that I don’t really want more riders to ride like I do.

I totally get your point, really I do. I just don't think I ever felt like I didn't know what bike to ride or what to wear, this just never happened to me, ever. Heck when I started competative cycling in my 20's I was totally against toe clips because I wasn't comfortable w/them and I didn't wear them on most rides, only when I raced. So yea, I agree, but do I need this guy to write all this up and tell me what's "better" or what works, I don't think so. If others, who don't have cycling experience feel they need to read a book prior to riding a bike or anything else for that matter then shame on them. His whole point is that as kids we did what we wanted, so be it.

If a person buys an expensive road bike out of inexperience then they probably do other foolish things as well; they need more than a book to tell them what to do especially if they cannot figure something out as simple as "riding a bike".

[gregj]

By and large, we are not his intended audience. From what I've seen, Grant is writing for the lay people---who don't spend all day on multiple bike forums obsessing over geometry and grams.

You and I have spent years riding, have figured out what works and doesn't, and where in the spectrum of cyclists we feel we belong to (tourists, racers, downhillers, commuters, fixie hipsters, etc.**).

His point is that you don't need to belong in a special group to be able to ride your bike and enjoy it. I don't work in the industry, so I don't know if this is really a big stumbling block for people or not, but it seems like a sensible enough point to make: Just because you don't own (and don't care to own) a $2000+ bike and wear lycra, or a low-trail-front-rack-and-bag randonneuse, or matching front/rear panniers on a long-wheelbased tourer (or whatever else stereotype/fear nonriders have) shouldn't keep you from riding your unremarkable regular old bike around town or to work.

I don't understand why people feel so defensive whenever the topic of Grant Peterson comes up. He's not forcing you to ride double-top-tubed, basket and bagged bikes with the handlebars higher than the Brooks saddle.

** Yes, I recognize you don't have to stereotype yourself into one of these groups, and that they need not be mutually exclusive, but I would guess most people feel a stronger identity with some subset of riders).

[benb]

Another angle on this.. it's fine and dandy if you ride a 2.4 mile commute on a legend but if you're putting spandex on to do it the guy who is pedaling the hybrid in street clothes is going to get to his desk faster then you unless you're REALLY fast. And if you are somehow averaging 500 watts for that commute he is still going to get to his desk faster as you'll have worked up a good sweat to go that fast.

Road bike:
5 minutes to change & put on bike shoes
7 minutes to ride 2.4 miles @ 20mph average speed
5 minutes to change
17 minutes total and you probably stink as 20mph is going to be enough to sweat

Lance:
5 minutes to change & put on bike shoes
4.8 minutes to ride 2.4 miles @ 30mph average speed
5 minutes to shower
5 minutes to change
19.8 minutes but everyone sneered at him because he rode a Trek

Fredly Peterson:
5 minutes to put on street clothes
11 minutes to ride 2.4 miles @ 13mph average speed
16 minutes total

[laupsi]

By and large, we are not his intended audience. From what I've seen, Grant is writing for the lay people---who don't spend all day on multiple bike forums obsessing over geometry and grams.

You and I have spent years riding, have figured out what works and doesn't, and where in the spectrum of cyclists we feel we belong to (tourists, racers, downhillers, commuters, fixie hipsters, etc.**).

His point is that you don't need to belong in a special group to be able to ride your bike and enjoy it. I don't work in the industry, so I don't know if this is really a big stumbling block for people or not, but it seems like a sensible enough point to make: Just because you don't own (and don't care to own) a $2000+ bike and wear lycra, or a low-trail-front-rack-and-bag randonneuse, or matching front/rear panniers on a long-wheelbased tourer (or whatever else stereotype/fear nonriders have) shouldn't keep you from riding your unremarkable regular old bike around town or to work.

I don't understand why people feel so defensive whenever the topic of Grant Peterson comes up. He's not forcing you to ride double-top-tubed, basket and bagged bikes with the handlebars higher than the Brooks saddle.

** Yes, I recognize you don't have to stereotype yourself into one of these groups, and that they need not be mutually exclusive, but I would guess most people feel a stronger identity with some subset of riders).

I taught spinning classes for a while after my son was born because I didn't have the time to commit to racing anymore. I had students who were cycling enthusiasts, racers, twice weekly novices and first timers. the first timers were very intimidated initially. they needed support and guidance but got along even w/out me answering all their questions.

New folks don't know everything and require assistance. but cycling is not rock climbing or skiing or canoeing. the adult who has never ridden a bike before but wants to do so probably has some issues w/riding outdoors and could use some advice; is this a large % of our population? I don't think it is. I think the majority who don't ride, those who have never ridden and who never will don't because they simply don't want to ride a bike. it's that simple.

there are all kinds of cliques out there in all sorts of sporting circles. cycling is no different. racers tend to be selfish, take that any way you want, and choose to dedicate a good deal of their "spare" time training and racing. they don't have time for the folks who don't race. I think his whole argument is overly simplified and I don't see evidence of what he is advocating or at least I don't see that it keeps those who want to ride their bikes from riding. this is a non book in my opinion that could have been summed up in a magazine article or in an interview, say like NPR.

[rpm]

My commute is 2.5 miles. I ride in my office clothes, cotton or microfiber pants instead of wool, shirt and tie (polo shirt on hot summer days). I ride my road bike, Strong or Serotta, because I can park it next to my desk and go for a lunch hour ride. I keep sport coats, shoes, and riding clothes at the office. If it's raining I usually drive.

[flydhest]

All my work clothes stay at the office. We have a drop off for dry cleaning. The lunchtime ride has a lot of the local 2s and 3s, so if I didn't commute on my race/training bike, I don't think I could do it. The pace is usually 26 to 27 then ramps up to just over 30 and then the sprint begins at the end of each lap.

I don't ride fast enough to sweat and it takes me 10 to 20 minutes depending on traffic. That said, I sometimes do workouts in the morning and end up straight at work and shower there. Or I go and do laps after work.

I am not sure why there was any thing to be said about how fast I do it, though. I don't think that matters to me very much. Why did you bring it up?

If I wore fred-like street clothes, I'd still have to change when I got to the office. I reckon I could wear a business suit to ride everyday, but I wouldn't like it, not in DC and especially not in August or in February.


Another angle on this.. it's fine and dandy if you ride a 2.4 mile commute on a legend but if you're putting spandex on to do it the guy who is pedaling the hybrid in street clothes is going to get to his desk faster then you unless you're REALLY fast. And if you are somehow averaging 500 watts for that commute he is still going to get to his desk faster as you'll have worked up a good sweat to go that fast.

Road bike:
5 minutes to change & put on bike shoes
7 minutes to ride 2.4 miles @ 20mph average speed
5 minutes to change
17 minutes total and you probably stink as 20mph is going to be enough to sweat

Lance:
5 minutes to change & put on bike shoes
4.8 minutes to ride 2.4 miles @ 30mph average speed
5 minutes to shower
5 minutes to change
19.8 minutes but everyone sneered at him because he rode a Trek

Fredly Peterson:
5 minutes to put on street clothes
11 minutes to ride 2.4 miles @ 13mph average speed
16 minutes total

[tiretrax]

My commute is 2.4 miles, through the center of the Nation's capital, and I often do it on my Legend. I should be ashamed.

How's the perspiration level come summer?

Did you recover the stolen bike (I hope)?

[twangston73]

I did not hear him dissing race bikes or people that ride them. I thought his point was that the American focus on cycling is so tied in the public mind to racing and lycra that many people opt out of it because it feels too extreme or niche when in reality they could jump on a halfway decent bike and do a short commute without too much rigamarole. My commute is 3.5 miles which is really too short to justify (in my mind) strapping on the whole outfit and shoes, so i just tootle along on a single speed in my work clothes. If you want to be all uber i think he was fine with that, just that it is not the only way to spin yer feet and move across the earth.

[dana_e]

From rivbike.com:

Included in the Build Kit:


•46cm Nitto Noodle Handlebar (41cm or 44cm can be substituted for smaller riders)

•Nitto Tallux 9cm Stem

•Shimano Tiagra brake levers
•Silver Bar End Shifters
•Tektro R559 Sidepull Brakes
•Sugino XD2 170mm Crank
•Deore/Synergy 36h Wheelset
•Schwalbe Marathon Tires (x2)
•Tubes (x2)

•Microshift Clamper Front Derailer
•Shimano Deore Rear Derailer
•Kalloy seatpost
•Tange cartridge bottom bracket
•Tange or FSA headset (our choice depending on availability)
•9sp 11-32 cassette
•9sp Chain

[flydhest]

How's the perspiration level come summer?

Did you recover the stolen bike (I hope)?

Summer is . . . hot. Of course, if I walked, I'd sweat at least as much. I go a bit slower in the summer. In the winter, I try to find the buses with compressed natural gas--not the same exhaust as diesel and a nice warm bubble of air.

I haven't had a bike stolen in a long time. Are you talking about the tandem I had stolen 8 years ago?

[93legendti]

I work at Performance part time, 2x/week. I commute-it's usually 3 miles, unless I leave early or extend on the way home.

I've commuted on my fendered Salsa Casseroll, but prefer my Ottrott, Kirk JKS or Concours-they are more fun to ride-even it's only 3 miles and I have my Timbuk2 Swig on my back.

To each their own.

I am not exactly sure what Americans are into, but the vast majority of the people I have waited on are looking to move past a comfort bike and get a road bike and/or get into their first set of biking shoes and pedals. It's a kick for me to see people come in the store looking "to get more serious about biking".

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=Bob Loblaw;1141522]True. If you are looking for a bike to ride 6 miles to work or to run errands on, you absolutely could spend $3500 on a used Trek Madone, Spend another few hundred to put a gel saddle on it, 28c tires (the largest it would take), a riser stem, platform pedals, P-Clamp a rack on there and kludge a chainguard onto the carbon crankset. Or, you could spend $700 on a nice hybird, brand new with a warranty, that already has all that stuff.

There are people who buy racing bikes who would be better served by a hybrid. Less expensive, better ride, more upright position.

To turn your argument around on you, you could take a Porsche Boxster on a camping trip around the western United States, but it would be more comfortable and cheaper in a Toyota 4Runner.

BL(Quote)

So why do you 'need' a gel saddle, 28c tires, a riser stem, platform pedals, a P clamp rack, and chainguard to ride 6 miles to work or do errands? The salesperson that says you 'need' all that stuff to just ride to work is failing as a salesperson as much as trying to sell them a $7000 'racing bike'.

I rankle when somebody says you need a purpose driven bike to do 'X'. You generally don't, you just need a bike, any bike. You don't 'need' a do anything, anywhere, fat tire, racks and fenders to commute nor do you 'need' a carbon everything, electronic shifting wunderbike, to do your weekend foray to the coffee shop.

[laupsi]

small tid bit in the WSJ this morning indicates "studies" have shown that men who wear helmets rider "faster", just over 11 mph faster than those men who do not wear helmets, just over 10 mph. this same argument was used GP's book "Just Ride".

where's the analysis in this? couldn't it just be that men who choose to wear helmets are also inclined to ride faster because they can, they enjoy it, they are more experienced riders, they ride on bikes w/smaller tires and better hubs/wheels? how can one deduct that simply purchasing a helmet implies that the wearer will take on more risk? simplifying things, this argument implies wearing a helmet = the wearer will take on more risk and therefore wearing a helmet is more dangerous than not wearing a helmet :confused:.

[Bob Loblaw]

He likes to be ornery and controversial, and so even when he sounds like he's dissing racers, he's not. He's dissing those who hold racing as the ultimate goal of any cyclist and racing bikes as the best equipment for any application.

As others have said, he isn't telling you not to ride your racing bike to work if you've already got one hanging in your garage. He's saying there is a difference between a cyclist and a racer. Racers, like commuters, tourists, BMXers, MTBers, family-time toodlers, beach pedalers, urban/fixies, coffee-shop cruisers, are just a sub-category of cyclists, and a racing bike is not necessarily the best choice for the majority of them.

An anecdote:

A lot of years ago, I bought my wife a racing bike for $2k. She wanted to do a few triathlons and commute. I told her (jokingly) it was her misfortune to be married to a bicycle snob. I pointed to various doodads and doohickeys that shaved weight and increased performance that she would come to appreciate in time. She did her triathlons, rode it to work.

Fast forward 15 years. The racing bike is dead, killed by a car while my wife was on her way home from work. A few months of rehab and gentle encouragement and she is ready for a new bike. I start from ground zero, asking her questions as I would a customer buying a bike for the first time, and I am stunned to realize that, even though it fit right and performed flawlessly, she never liked that racing bike. She had always preferred her old rigid mountain bike. More comfortable and stable, she said, especially downhill.

So we got her a very nice, 105/Tiagra-equipped, 30-speed flat bar bike with 32c tires. The added heft of the tires gives it stability and a cushier ride. It has rack braze-ons for her commute and space for fenders (though she never rides in the wet). She loves it (it already has a name, something her old bike never got), doesn't give a crap about rolling resistance or weight or shifter responsiveness or any of the things I had considered key selling points of the last bike. About the only thing I got right on the first bike was the SPD pedals which she still has and likes.

BL

[laupsi]

He likes to be ornery and controversial, and so even when he sounds like he's dissing racers, he's not. He's dissing those who hold racing as the ultimate goal of any cyclist and racing bikes as the best equipment for any application.

As others have said, he isn't telling you not to ride your racing bike to work if you've already got one hanging in your garage. He's saying there is a difference between a cyclist and a racer. Racers, like commuters, tourists, BMXers, MTBers, family-time toodlers, beach pedalers, urban/fixies, coffee-shop cruisers, are just a sub-category of cyclists, and a racing bike is not necessarily the best choice for the majority of them.

An anecdote:

A lot of years ago, I bought my wife a racing bike for $2k. She wanted to do a few triathlons and commute. I told her (jokingly) it was her misfortune to be married to a bicycle snob. I pointed to various doodads and doohickeys that shaved weight and increased performance that she would come to appreciate in time. She did her triathlons, rode it to work.

Fast forward 15 years. The racing bike is dead, killed by a car while my wife was on her way home from work. A few months of rehab and gentle encouragement and she is ready for a new bike. I start from ground zero, asking her questions as I would a customer buying a bike for the first time, and I am stunned to realize that, even though it fit right and performed flawlessly, she never liked that racing bike. She had always preferred her old rigid mountain bike. More comfortable and stable, she said, especially downhill.

So we got her a very nice, 105/Tiagra-equipped, 30-speed flat bar bike with 32c tires. The added heft of the tires gives it stability and a cushier ride. It has rack braze-ons for her commute and space for fenders (though she never rides in the wet). She loves it (it already has a name, something her old bike never got), doesn't give a crap about rolling resistance or weight or shifter responsiveness or any of the things I had considered key selling points of the last bike. About the only thing I got right on the first bike was the SPD pedals which she still has and likes.

BL

I don't think those who ride for the first time think they have to have a racing bike. your wife wanted to try something new, a challenge perhaps, 15 years later she is a different person w/different goals and aspirations. she no longer wants to compete, she wants a bike to match her current goals. it's that simple.

I never heard of this guy before this book, I chose to read it due to all the hype on this forum. I don't care if he does diss racers, heck I diss racers. I just think when you boil it down, he's got nothing to say and yet he's raking in the royalties from his new book.

[christian]

I never heard of this guy before this book, I chose to read it due to all the hype on this forum. I don't care if he does diss racers, heck I diss racers. I just think when you boil it down, he's got nothing to say and yet he's raking in the royalties from his new book.Yeah, Grant Peterson don't know nothing interesting about bicycling. And that potato dude probably never e'en seen a bike part from Vicenza. To propose that Grant has "nothing to say" seems the height of ignorance.

[laupsi]

Yeah, Grant Peterson don't know nothing interesting about bicycling. And that potato dude probably never e'en seen a bike part from Vicenza. To propose that Grant has "nothing to say" seems the height of ignorance.

that's me, Mr. Ignorant!

Actually he has a lot to say, it just ain't worth reading!

[gemship]

He sure seems to have some problem with wearing 'racing clothes' on a 'racing bike'. He seems to ignore the fact that the 'racing clothes' are more comfy and useable than shorts and a t shirt(rear pockets, padded bibs, etc). And the bicycle works well to 'get you there'. Nothing wrong with an urban look with a fat tired, rack/fender equipped, go anywhere in any weather bicycle but to 'commute', that isn't necessarily needed. I commute to work, ride about 1 1.5 hours, go to work, ride home. In 'racing clothes', on my MXLeader or Moots. I don't think you have to critisize anybody for riding a bicycle somewhere for any reason that doesn't match Mr Petersen's idea of what a 'cyclist' 'should' be.

and according to what he said you would look the part upon arrival to your job where as I would look extremely out of place on a lobster boat or as a cleaner of a building or as a landscaper or when I cut wood...yeah lycra don't quite cut it.

[gregj]

I never heard of this guy before this book, I chose to read it due to all the hype on this forum. I don't care if he does diss racers, heck I diss racers. I just think when you boil it down, he's got nothing to say and yet he's raking in the royalties from his new book.

I doubt that he's "raking in the royalties" on this. And GP has had a lifelong career in the industry, and has influenced a large part of the cycling community in a positive way. He has always seemed to me to be an honest (if contrarian) person, and I would not say he is somehow snookering anyone and profiting off of it.

[OnTheEllipse]

He always talks as if one's position on a racing geometry frame is inherently uncomfortable. I don't understand that. I feel more comfortable long and low than I do sitting upright.

[christian]

He always talks as if one's position on a racing geometry frame is inherently uncomfortable. I don't understand that. I feel more comfortable long and low than I do sitting upright.Hello and welcome. This is a discussion forum for sporting cyclists. If you have a look around, you'll notice that many of us have a whippet-like shape which is, at best, rare in the general population.

Seriously, if you're on the Serotta forum, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. Heck, if you know that Grant Peterson is the former brand manager at Bridgestone and founder of Rivendell, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. It's not even for "cyclists." It's for the other 99.9% of people who might ride a bike.

Reviewing it in any other context is like bitching that you didn't like "Otello" because it was hard to understand because they were 1) singing 2) in Italian.

[laupsi]

Hello and welcome. This is a discussion forum for sporting cyclists. If you have a look around, you'll notice that many of us have a whippet-like shape which is, at best, rare in the general population.

Seriously, if you're on the Serotta forum, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. Heck, if you know that Grant Peterson is the former brand manager at Bridgestone and founder of Rivendell, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. It's not even for "cyclists." It's for the other 99.9% of people who might ride a bike.

Reviewing it in any other context is like bitching that you didn't like "Otello" because it was hard to understand because they were 1) singing 2) in Italian.

WOW, I guess I am partially to blame for this heated debate. I did do some research on GP prior to posting to see what his "contributions" to cycling actually were. I did get read general information about Brdige Stone, I actaully owned a MB-3 for many years, and his days at Rivendell. He probably has a great grasp on cycling.

my only point is that if I were new to cycing I doubt this book would offer anything new and/or intertesting other than his take on teaching children and adults how to first ride a two wheeler. are folks out there that obtuse that they would need a book to decide what to wear and what type of bike to ride? in MHO it's like having to read a book about dog walking because you want to get a dog. that's it I am done! ;)

[BillG]

Hello and welcome. This is a discussion forum for sporting cyclists. If you have a look around, you'll notice that many of us have a whippet-like shape which is, at best, rare in the general population.

Seriously, if you're on the Serotta forum, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. Heck, if you know that Grant Peterson is the former brand manager at Bridgestone and founder of Rivendell, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. It's not even for "cyclists." It's for the other 99.9% of people who might ride a bike.

Reviewing it in any other context is like bitching that you didn't like "Otello" because it was hard to understand because they were 1) singing 2) in Italian.

True but what I don't like about GP is he feeds the prejudice against us in spandex. That's why I stopped reading the Rivendell reader and gave my Romulus to a friend.

[Ken Robb]

WOW, I guess I am partially to blame for this heated debate. I did do some research on GP prior to posting to see what his "contributions" to cycling actually were. I did get read general information about Brdige Stone, I actaully owned a MB-3 for many years, and his days at Rivendell. He probably has a great grasp on cycling.

my only point is that if I were new to cycing I doubt this book would offer anything new and/or intertesting other than his take on teaching children and adults how to first ride a two wheeler. are folks out there that obtuse that they would need a book to decide what to wear and what type of bike to ride? in MHO it's like having to read a book about dog walking because you want to get a dog. that's it I am done! ;)

If a person new to cycling read this book before buying a bike he would have a better idea of what to consider before making a choice. Grant tries to prevent us (cyclists) from losing new members who buy (get sold) race-style bikes they find uncomfortable and soon quit riding because it hurts. He wants newbies to know they don't HAVE to ride in "real" cycling clothes until/if they decide they would get some benefit from them. Potential riders are often shocked by what a decent bike costs. If they are then told they NEED to spend at least $200 more for an outfit that can kill their interest right there.

He would also like to "save" some experienced riders from giving up because their old fit no longer is comfortable enough. I don't remember ever reading anything where he said race bikes weren't good for racing. He says they are so optimized for that application that many non-racers would be better served by a more versatile bike.

[fiamme red]

I never heard of this guy before this book, I chose to read it due to all the hype on this forum. I don't care if he does diss racers, heck I diss racers. I just think when you boil it down, he's got nothing to say and yet he's raking in the royalties from his new book.http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/23502132187/late-may-misc

JUST RIDE is selling OK. I don’t know the figures. I know that I got a $25,000 advance, which went right to tuition, and I don’t expect to earn that back for a year or more. Some of you may know the publishing biz, others may be curious, but for the record, I get ten percent of the cover price (so, $1.395) for every bike a bookstore or bikeshop buys one. The publisher—Workman—sent noticias out to 3,000 of the roughly 4,400 bike shops in the country, but bike shops are notoriously underbuyers of books.

I wonder if your local shop sells books. Ours don’t.

[OnTheEllipse]

Hello and welcome. This is a discussion forum for sporting cyclists. If you have a look around, you'll notice that many of us have a whippet-like shape which is, at best, rare in the general population.

My core is still pretty flabby. My point is I think the majority of the less-than-whippet-like population would be more comfortable on a traditional road bike than they perceive that they would be.

[tiretrax]

Summer is . . . hot. Of course, if I walked, I'd sweat at least as much. I go a bit slower in the summer. In the winter, I try to find the buses with compressed natural gas--not the same exhaust as diesel and a nice warm bubble of air.

I haven't had a bike stolen in a long time. Are you talking about the tandem I had stolen 8 years ago?

Someone had a Legend stolen on K St. in the past year or two. I thought he said he had another at home.

Never mind.

Still, with the humidity in DC, I'd have to shower when I got to work. Same here in Dallas - even when the temp is high and the humidity is low, it's miserable for the 4 miles to my office (most of which is on a slight downgrade).

[tannhauser]

Hello and welcome. This is a discussion forum for sporting cyclists. If you have a look around, you'll notice that many of us have a whippet-like shape which is, at best, rare in the general population.

Seriously, if you're on the Serotta forum, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. Heck, if you know that Grant Peterson is the former brand manager at Bridgestone and founder of Rivendell, THIS BOOK IS NOT AIMED AT YOU. It's not even for "cyclists." It's for the other 99.9% of people who might ride a bike.

Reviewing it in any other context is like bitching that you didn't like "Otello" because it was hard to understand because they were 1) singing 2) in Italian.


Not really.

I have as fast, long & low bike.

And I have a sit up and beg bike that weighs more than Rujano.

Yer making generalizations based upon your take of this crowd; I'm here to tell you it ain't necessarily so.

BTW this GP bandwagon thing you guys are getting on now is kind of ridiculous, given these bikes have always existed. You just chose to ignore them.

[gdw]

"BTW this GP bandwagon thing you guys are getting on now is kind of ridiculous, given these bikes have always existed. You just chose to ignore them."

[flydhest]

Someone had a Legend stolen on K St. in the past year or two. I thought he said he had another at home.

Never mind.

Still, with the humidity in DC, I'd have to shower when I got to work. Same here in Dallas - even when the temp is high and the humidity is low, it's miserable for the 4 miles to my office (most of which is on a slight downgrade).

I did have a nightmare about my Legend getting stolen . . . :)

Yeah, I hear you on the humidity. I get in early and work at my desk for a half hour after arriving before getting into my suit. It's still faster than driving or taking the bus!

[bfd]

Ken wrote:

<If a person new to cycling read this book before buying a bike he would have a better idea of what to consider before making a choice. Grant tries to prevent us (cyclists) from losing new members who buy (get sold) race-style bikes they find uncomfortable and soon quit riding because it hurts. He wants newbies to know they don't HAVE to ride in "real" cycling clothes until/if they decide they would get some benefit from them. Potential riders are often shocked by what a decent bike costs. If they are then told they NEED to spend at least $200 more for an outfit that can kill their interest right there. >

I think what he says is true if you're planning on commuting or doing sort urban type rides. For my short 10 mile round trip commute to work, which, unfortunately, is most of my riding these days, I can basically wear anything as its all down hill and flat to work. On the way, home, I have a couple of good climbs and sweat madly. But, I don't care because when I get home, I just strip down and shower and change.

On the other hand, if you ride anything over say 40 miles or more, then those cycling clothes actually help riding. Padded shorts; jerseys with pockets; arm/leg warmers and vest which allow you to strip if it gets hot or visa versa; and yes, cycling shoes that lets you stay "connected," all help on long rides.

<He would also like to "save" some experienced riders from giving up because their old fit no longer is comfortable enough. I don't remember ever reading anything where he said race bikes weren't good for racing. He says they are so optimized for that application that many non-racers would be better served by a more versatile bike.>

But does his book talk about making those "racing-style" bikes more useful? After all, you could do things like raise the bar or change to a upright or "North Road style" bar, get a wider seat and of course, he could have plugged 650B (584mm) wheels! After all, Grant is probably the main guy responsible for reviving that size. I always thought that using 650B wheels on racing-style bikes that had no clearance was a great way to get fatter tires onit and make a bike more useful. Hopefully, he talked about these changes to make those racing bikes more useful and on the road! Good Luck!