Surly Pugsley, or Am I really that crazy?

[FlashUNC]

I figured I'd throw this out there since this is something I've been tossing around a bit, and would like some outside opinions.

After nearly two decades of not riding trails, I think I may be getting the mountain bike bug back. I've taken my cross bike out on some dirt stuff last Fall, and had remembered how much fun a lot of MTB stuff was when I was a teenager. (I stopped way back when because I was tired of hitting trees, but another topic for another time...)

Anyways, I've been poking around looking at some of the options out there for an MTB, and I've become somewhat infatuated with the Surly Pugsley. My MTB buddies say I'm crazy, you can't use it as an everyday trail bike. Too heavy, etc etc.
But I was never fast on the trails to begin with, and doubt I will be now. And the bike just seems more versatile than your standard Rockhopper or Trek whatever. It just seems, I dunno, more fun, for lack of a better word.

So I put it to the forum: Would I be nuts to have a Pugsley as my one and only MTB? Would I be better off with a rigid 29'er instead? Am I just getting sucked in by Surly marketing hype? Can I wear Assos shorts on the trail?

These are all burning questions I have.

[daker13]

So I put it to the forum: Would I be nuts to have a Pugsley as my one and only MTB?

Yes. It might be kind of fun for an occasional ride, but if the Pugsley is your only mtb, you're not going to be using it much.

[FlashUNC]

Yes. It might be kind of fun for an occasional ride, but if the Pugsley is your only mtb, you're not going to be using it much.

Curious if you could expand on this a bit. It seems to be a sort of do-it-all bike, if just not very fast.

[moose8]

Maybe you can track one down for a test ride? There is a pugsley google group with a wealth of information. I have a surly 1x1 with 3 inch wide tires and I find the wheels really heavy, but the tires are admittedly way worse than the ones that come on the pugsley. I think the pugsley does look like a ton of fun. If you really don't mind being slower than everybody else I bet it could be fun.

[MattTuck]

If you lived on a beach, and were going to be doing most of your riding on the sand... I'd say go for it. Otherwise, no.

[charliedid]

I figured I'd throw this out there since this is something I've been tossing around a bit, and would like some outside opinions.

After nearly two decades of not riding trails, I think I may be getting the mountain bike bug back. I've taken my cross bike out on some dirt stuff last Fall, and had remembered how much fun a lot of MTB stuff was when I was a teenager. (I stopped way back when because I was tired of hitting trees, but another topic for another time...)

Anyways, I've been poking around looking at some of the options out there for an MTB, and I've become somewhat infatuated with the Surly Pugsley. My MTB buddies say I'm crazy, you can't use it as an everyday trail bike. Too heavy, etc etc.
But I was never fast on the trails to begin with, and doubt I will be now. And the bike just seems more versatile than your standard Rockhopper or Trek whatever. It just seems, I dunno, more fun, for lack of a better word.

So I put it to the forum: Would I be nuts to have a Pugsley as my one and only MTB? Would I be better off with a rigid 29'er instead? Am I just getting sucked in by Surly marketing hype? Can I wear Assos shorts on the trail?

These are all burning questions I have.

"So I put it to the forum: Would I be nuts to have a Pugsley as my one and only MTB? Would I be better off with a rigid 29'er instead? Am I just getting sucked in by Surly marketing hype? Can I wear Assos shorts on the trail?"

Living in North Carolina I'd say the thrill of the new and unusual would wear off fairly quickly. IMO they are designed for hard pack snow and do well in that arena. If it's so muddy that you want a Pugsley....I "suggest" staying off the trails. Sand? It really doesn't do so well IMO

On the other hand it's just a bike, and you can always sell it as "like new" here on the barely used bike forum ;-)

[blantonator]

I'd pass. You'll have more fun on a 29 hard tail. I recommend a suspension fork too.

[Liv2RideHard]

Pass on the Pug man. Not right for your intended use. Get a slick hardtail that you can rip. If it were me...another Ventana, a Soulcraft, a Retrotec the list goes. Go steel. Look into a 650b. Have fun with the search.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is on the Pugsley for width? It's pretty low pressure from what I've heard--never ridden one--and would probably roll over almost anything, but if it's so heavy you have problems supplying the power to keep going over that obstacle, then it's not going to be much fun.

Will Pugsley frame--and the brakes--accommodate narrower tires that you could switch out? Get a second set of rims and run 2.5" width on those? I'm assuming you'd have to adjust the brakes everytime you change wheels. But how often would you really be doing that? if you're not looking for speed anyway ti might work.

BBD

[FlashUNC]

. . . is on the Pugsley for width? It's pretty low pressure from what I've heard--never ridden one--and would probably roll over almost anything, but if it's so heavy you have problems supplying the power to keep going over that obstacle, then it's not going to be much fun.

Will Pugsley frame--and the brakes--accommodate narrower tires that you could switch out? Get a second set of rims and run 2.5" width on those? I'm assuming you'd have to adjust the brakes everytime you change wheels. But how often would you really be doing that? if you're not looking for speed anyway ti might work.

BBD

3.8" on the front, 3.7" on the rear.

I've seen the recommendation online of running them around 10 psi.

I hold no delusions this would ever be a fast bike. But I was never all that fast on trails to begin with. (Nor am I on the road now that I think about it....I'm sending a theme...)

[benb]

I just looked and the pugsley "complete bike" comes with a 3.7" front and a 3.8" rear.

I've seen people riding them on normal trails and it honestly looked fine.. they were having a good time and they weren't going terribly slow. It probably has zero rolling resistance with those pressures if you can get tubeless in that size.

Seems like it could work IMO.. if you wanted people to tell you it would be fine for all around use this was the wrong place to ask since in general the attitude here is that you need a lot of bikes and you need the absolute best bike for every single type of ride you want to do.

If you live in an area with snowy winters I really can't see how it's such a bad idea.. as your ONLY bike? No IMO. But as your only (edit) MTB along with a road bike for pavement riding I don't really see how it would be that bad.

[Fixed]

I would say a 29er would fit the bill
Cheers

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . take that into account. You said you're not after speed. Just fun.

I have two sets of wheels for my MTB . . . one with slicks, one with knobbies. Both are identical rims so I don't have to adjust brakes, but I have no experience with discs--looks like the ysell the complete bike with those.

For the narrow rims you'd have to probably cobble something together with longer axles and some sort of spacers to get those dics at the right width to match up. A good intellectual exercise but maybe too much trouble in real life.

What about picking one up on eBay? Looks like MSRP on the complete bike new is only $1650. You could probably pick one up for less on the BAy. It strikes me as the kind of product a lot of people will buy for reasons just like yours--want to try it out--but then decide it's not for them and unload it. Kind of like saddles and cross bikes . . .

BBD

[nebraskacycling]

Are you planning to move to Iceland? My buddy over there says people ride them there. I don't see any reason to ride anything that wide over here unless it's the dead of winter up north. There is a lot of snow and ice in Nebraska during the winter, but there were only a few around. Maybe you will get some enjoyment out of it, but most people I've talked to didn't have a reason to keep it.

[Aaron O]

I really want a Pugsley or pUg'esque bike...I came close to buying one this past weekend, but ended up on some other projects instead. I'm hoping I can ride this winter and will try and get one now - except I'll probably get one from Frank the Welder.

[alancw3]

if i were getting a snow bike it would be the salsa mukluk. aluminum or titanium frame makes it more attractive to me. just saying!


http://salsacycles.com/bikes/mukluk/

[Scuzzer]

A long, long time ago (1997?) I had this thing built for me to use on the Iditarod trail. Since the local builder didn't have the correct type of tube bending tooling we ended up using 3 fork tubing sets to get the chainline correct and allow the use of 3" tires.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee168/lamamandemma/snowbike1.jpg

It rides like a tank, is a blast to take out on the trails and I find myself aiming to hit stuff I'd normally steer around with 2.1 tires. Unfortunately it's incredibly slow so it's hard to use with a group but I have other bikes for that purpose. Currently it's my 3rd most used off road bike behind my Litespeed Ocoee and gravel road 700c bike. Around here there is never the correct type of terrain to show off its strengths, only its weaknesses.

Today I'd have a tough time dropping Pugsley type money to get the capabilities of this type of bike. Too many drawbacks and not enough payoff. YMMV

[dogdriver]

I love my Pugsley dearly (though a friend got a Moonlander this winter and I now have a case of footprint envy), but only for riding on snow. The little bit of time I've spent on dirt with it is, shall I say, uninspiring. Get a 29er and put 2.5's on it if you're worried about footprint.

[srice]

If you want the ability to put "normal" wheels on a Pugsley, get a Salsa Mukluk, Fatback or non-offset 907. You'll have to build a normal wheel on a wide hub, but you could then have a 29'er set of wheels along with your fat wheels.

I love my Pugsley and I live in KY - not the snow belt. I will admit that I bought it in order to ride the Arrowhead 135, but I have taken it out on the trails here. It is definitely slower, but I have never seen anybody ride one of these without a smile on their face. The ability to roll over anything is fun! A hardtail 29'er will be better suited to all around trail use, but the Pug will let you ride in places/conditions that would not be much fun on the 29'er.

**disclaimer - I like my Salsa El Mariachi too and wouldn't give either one up. I've also upgraded my Pug's wheels to Rolling Darryls with BFLs for even more float!

[NHAero]

I had a Fatbike in NH. It was not a good replacement for an MTB on trails when there wasn't snow. A suspension fork is a big improvement over really fat tires!

[67-59]

I love my Pugsley dearly (though a friend got a Moonlander this winter and I now have a case of footprint envy), but only for riding on snow. The little bit of time I've spent on dirt with it is, shall I say, uninspiring. Get a 29er and put 2.5's on it if you're worried about footprint.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I live in Minnesota and came close to buying one this past winter after a test ride...but then it was just so mild I was able to ride my road bike through the winter. My impressions from the test ride was that it would be great for snow, but a little sluggish otherwise. If this coming winter is more like our historical norm, there's a good chance I'll get one...for the snow.

[Keith A]

You might send Spiderman a PM as I know he has a Pugsley and from what I recall, he's quite happy with this.

[bigflax925]

Up until I sold mine to StormyClouds, a Pug was my only mountain bike.

It did fine for trail riding here in The South, where it's really rocky. It had tons of float and a very cushy ride. I'm not a racer, so it was really for enjoyment. I can tell you that if you want to ride incognito and not strike up a conversation everywhere you go, you need to look elsewhere.

I had two pairs of wheels: one with Endomorphs on it for off-roading and one with Maxxis Hookworms for road riding. Yes, it was slow on the street, but Hookworms are really heavy tires and the Pug is no lightweight to begin with. But for tooling around it can't be beat.

I should add that the only reason I sold the Pugs was to pick up a Moonlander. While I have a Trek Sawyer, I wouldn't hesitate to ride a Moonlander on the trails here either. I'm just waiting on a used one to pop up.

[JAGI410]

I love my Pugsley. I bought it for winter commuting in Dec. 2010 and I ride it year round. Singletrack, neighborhood cruising, gravel metrics, bikepacking, etc. The fun-to-dollar ratio beats any bike on the market. It is impossible to ride without smiling or giggling. Monster truck noises will come out of you, regardless of how old and mature you think you are.

You could build up some 29er wheels, or run a 2.2" tire on the stock rims...but you won't. Run fat all the time and enjoy time out on the bike. It can do anything and go anywhere. Just not very fast, but that's not what riding is all about anyways. Still it's not as sluggish as you'd think.

The Mukluk is more upright and poorly spec'd for the money. Great for snow/beach only. The Pugs/Moonlander are more fun year round IMHO.

[aosty]

Get one... they're super fun on regular trails.

[cendres]

Those that say fatbikes are only for snow (and I know plenty of people around these parts that do) are SOOO missing the point. These bikes are fun in the snow, sure, but even more enjoyable when there's none. Singletrack, gravel roads, farm roads, river bottoms bashing, it's absolutely the most versatile and enjoyable bike I own. I started riding my Mukluk on dirt in the spring of '11 after riding many, many winter miles on it. I haven't touched my dual-suspension bike since.

Unsolicited advice: Change the tires to Nates or Husker Dus for non-snowy rides and the bike will be transformed. Larrys and Endomorphs don't corner well at all.

[dbrk]

These bikes are the most fun you can have with or without your clothes on. That said, I know a guy who makes custom Cdale Lefty forks for the Pugsley. If anyone is that psyched, you let me know and I'll hook you up for reals.

[dustyrider]

But I was never fast on the trails to begin with, and doubt I will be now. And the bike just seems more versatile than your standard Rockhopper or Trek whatever. It just seems, I dunno, more fun, for lack of a better word.

So I put it to the forum: Would I be nuts to have a Pugsley as my one and only MTB? Would I be better off with a rigid 29'er instead? Am I just getting sucked in by Surly marketing hype? Can I wear Assos shorts on the trail?

These are all burning questions I have.
Since you can wear whatever you want I'll leave that for others to address.

I put forth to you these two questions before I decide to answer your MTB questions,

I'd like to know how you define MTBing? Since you're thinking of a Pug or a rigid 9er as your sole MTB we define MTBing entirely different.
Along those line what is a versatile MTB to you?


Here's an awe inspiring Pug thread just to keep those wheels turning:

http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/bikerafting-alaskas-lava-coast-cold-bay-meshik-784146.html

mikesee has several photo rich threads of his fat tire adventures on MTBR.

[AgilisMerlin]

or Am I really that crazy?

yes, yes you are :banana:

[spiderman]

Come to okoboji
Stay as my guest in our cabin
Ride the ss pug and see if we can pry clydesdales
Hands off the purple monster pug
Try the moonlander
My kirk crosser
The serotta mtb
We can build up the strong in my basement
And you take home
The pick of the litter...
Seriously!
I will even consider the moots 29er hanging
In the window at cranky jeff's my mom thinks i should buy!

[DRietz]

I'm going to comment here without having read any of the previous comments in this thread.

A Surley Pugsley is definitely a daily rider of a mountain bike. Those who say it isn't obviously haven't ridden it enough to know.

A Pugsley doesn't build up nearly as heavy as a fully, and the wheels are just as hard to maneuver as those of a 29er (read: not hard at all).

I've ridden Pugsley's on tight single track, toured on them, ridden them as urban road machines - it all works.

Go for it if you think you'd be into it - it's certainly a different ride, but it's really cool in my opinion.

[FlashUNC]

Come to okoboji
Stay as my guest in our cabin
Ride the ss pug and see if we can pry clydesdales
Hands off the purple monster pug
Try the moonlander
My kirk crosser
The serotta mtb
We can build up the strong in my basement
And you take home
The pick of the litter...
Seriously!
I will even consider the moots 29er hanging
In the window at cranky jeff's my mom thinks i should buy!

Tempting offer Spider. What are you thoughts on Pug as sole mtb?

[FlashUNC]

Since you can wear whatever you want I'll leave that for others to address.

I'd like to know how you define MTBing? Since you're thinking of a Pug or a rigid 9er as your sole MTB we define MTBing entirely different.
Along those line what is a versatile MTB to you?



I'm never going to be one to worry about thrashing super technical trails. Even on my best days off-road a lifetime ago, I was pokey at best. For me, that kind of riding is more about getting out into nature, enjoying the experience, having some fun with some friends. We've got tons of great trails nearby here in Charlotte, but I don't think I'll ever look to aggressively tackle them. It would be, more or less, for fun.

The Pugsley or a rigid 29er appeal to me because it seems to kill a couple birds with one stone. Its a snow bike, its a mountain bike, you can take some of Surly's wacky cruiser tires and make it a townie/commuter bike with lots of rack mounts.

For what I do these days, I'd definte a versatile MTB as a jack of all trades, master of none, rather than something that can shred any trail known to man -- no matter how technical -- as fast as humanly possible.

[jchasse]

I owned a Salsa Mukluk for a while and have been riding a custom fatbike for about a year now.

For the first half of our Summer riding season last year, I rode the fatbike exclusively on singletrack, doing group rides etc. I could ride anything on the fatbike that I could ride on my Turner 5.Spot, just some stuff not quite as fast. But I was still able to hang on the group rides.

The fat tired bike actually climbs really technical stuff as well or better than my full suspension bike. And it typically puts a bigger smile on my face for some reason. The biggest downside is comfort - a fully rigid fatbike, even with 5-8 psi in those big tires, just isn't cushy like a proper suspension bike.

There's a big population of Pugsley/Mukluk/Fatback/9zero7 riders here in town. Purgatory open the lifts for us one day at the end of ski season, and 40+ fatbikes showed up! And I'd say more than half of the fat tired guys have switched to riding their fatbike as their primary mountain bike (including one shop owner.)

If you're interested, here's some mediocre video to give an indication of the fun even a very mediocre rider can have on a rigid fatbike...the guy with the camera was on a 6 inch travel bike, so you can probably see that the terrain wasn't totally smooth. (the fatbike appears at about 2:50 - I'm the one with the yellow/greenish hydration pack)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37PswoWL7SE

on edit: the comment somewhere above about transforming these bikes with more aggressive dry-trail tires (like Nates) is right on.

[buck-50]

So far this year, I have zero miles on my 29er, but my pugsley is getting dirty as hell.

I just took my pugs to blue mounds yesterday and for the first time ever completed a circuit without getting a flat.

Here's what I can say about the pugs in singletrack. It's not fast. It is an incomparable rock crawler. Crazy technical rock gardens? not a problem. The pugs just bulldozed over them.

Otherwise, it rides just like a regular MTB- same handling. If you are used to riding rigid bikes, it takes a little getting used to the fact that you don't have to be careful picking your line- just build up some speed and roll over it.

It's got the precision handling of a rigid bike with the "hit anything at speed" capabilities of an FS bike.

It's heavy. I've knocked 3 or 4 pounds off mine so far and I'm still over 34 pounds. It's not fast. It feels fast, but it's never going to be a fast bike. I pulled the big ring off and replaced it with a bashguard. Never got up into the big ring anyway. Depending on tire pressure, there's not much it can't crawl over. Those tires are huge- they roll over stuff that would stop a normal bike in it's tracks.

When I got mine, I replaced the bars with something narrower- the wide bars it comes with are a nightmare on narrow singletrack. Replaced the shifters with paul's thumbies, because being able to shift from one end of the cassette to the other is pretty important on a bike like this. I found that Crank bros Mallet pedals are about the most perfect pedals ever for the pugs- at low speeds, it's good to be able to pedal without clipping in. I think I might replace the 22 tooth granny with a 20 tooth ring.

For me, in Wisconsin, it's pretty much the perfect mountain bike. My 29er is slowly being converted into a townie.

[Clydesdale]

Sounds to me like you are a perfect Pugsley candidate!

I spend much of the winter on a pugs and I truly don't think I have as much pure fun riding anything else. I have ridden hard pack snow and ice, soft snow, easy single-track, lots of gravel, some old railroad beds, plowed fields, mud, etc. The pugsley rocks and you will smile most of the time you are on it.

You can ride basically anything on the pugs, but not as fast as terrain specific bikes (except snow and sand - then the pugs wins). In fact in a few places you can quit looking for "the line" and just pedal away and let the giant tires do the work. I find the steering a little sluggish and on bumpy stuff I tend to get a little "bounce" from the tires, but that could be my lack of handling/pedaling skills. And climbing... well it climbs about how it looks like it would :) but it's not horrible. The only real downside for me is that riding them on smooth road/trail feels a little "boring" and the bike seems to love finding more challenging stuff. You'll find yourself looking at road-ditches, snow-piles, curbs, and sand thinking, "I bet I could ride that."

Anyway - for what you are wanting, sounds like a fat-tire bike is exactly the ticket. If you're ok not being "fast", you'll have a ball riding it and I doubt you will find much it doesn't handle well. They really are a ton of fun.

Good luck and post pics of whatever you end up with.

[dustyrider]

I'm never going to be one to worry about thrashing super technical trails. Even on my best days off-road a lifetime ago, I was pokey at best. For me, that kind of riding is more about getting out into nature, enjoying the experience, having some fun with some friends. We've got tons of great trails nearby here in Charlotte, but I don't think I'll ever look to aggressively tackle them. It would be, more or less, for fun.

The Pugsley or a rigid 29er appeal to me because it seems to kill a couple birds with one stone. Its a snow bike, its a mountain bike, you can take some of Surly's wacky cruiser tires and make it a townie/commuter bike with lots of rack mounts.

For what I do these days, I'd definte a versatile MTB as a jack of all trades, master of none, rather than something that can shred any trail known to man -- no matter how technical -- as fast as humanly possible.


Pugs are quite fun to ride I've been fortunate enough to spend some time on one. I ride in a rocky, arid, basically desert climate. The Pug handled everything I could find to test it on, but it really didn't ride how I like to ride a MTB. I've got a 26" wheeled(gasp), steel, long travel hardtail and basically try to rip, and send everything I can. For me it's the most fun I have on a bike. Right up there with fast, twisty descents on the roadie, and long, long, tours.

I'd certainly rather have a Pug over a rigid 9er, especially if I was looking to tackle some of the more extreme natural events like snow, or beach sand.
Most of the rigid 9er crowd I know, I've also spent plenty of time on one of these too, seems to have something to prove, they generally keep them SS get all kitted out, and time trials everything. Huge generalization and obviously not the way you'd ride the 9er, but they sure are good for this type of riding. The larger diameter of the 9er isn't going to be beneficial in the snow or sand its all about width for this type of terrain.

I think the only thing that would hinder you, ever so slightly, on pulling the trigger immediately on a Pug; would be the riding with friends, since you will most likely be the pokey one of the bunch. But I bet if you get one someone else will get one, and so on and so forth.

Well, I'd say we've talked you into getting a Pug.
I recommend you get yourself one soon, take lots of pictures of it and your adventures, and share them here!

[Frankwurst]

I've been waffling on a Pugs for awhile. I'll waffle no more. I'm on the hunt to get me one of these bad boys.:beer:

[FlashUNC]

Just an update all. I test rode one today at a local shop who has one in for a demo weekend.

I'm sold. Seems a bit slower to steer at low speeds, but doesn't handle near like the tractor I thought it would.

And man, rolling over stuff is fun. I was grinning like an idiot the entire time.

[dustyrider]

Are you thinking new or used?

There are always used ones in Colorado popping up, I'll keep an eye out for you if you're thinking used.

In fact here's a few:

18"
http://rockies.craigslist.org/bik/3026176943.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/bik/3032845111.html

20"
http://rockies.craigslist.org/bik/3025284867.html

These may not be anywhere near me, Colorado is kinda big...

[aosty]

And man, rolling over stuff is fun. I was grinning like an idiot the entire time.




:banana::banana::banana::):)