Can someone school me on fenders/wide tires?

[MattTuck]

So, it is clear that the current 'in' thing is a big tired rain dirt road bike with fenders.

I've gathered that you can't use typical road brakes when you're running fenders, and I've seen many people talk about canti brakes. My mountain bike (back in the day) with canti brakes was a pain in the butt. V-brakes seemed to work better, in my opinion, are they an option with fenders?

Then there is the whole 650b thing... which I gather is a smaller wheel, allowing for bigger tires. Are there specific forks that you need (beyond just a fork that can handle dual mount brakes) to allow for bigger tires?

Inquiring minds want to know. thanks.

If there was a thread that discussed this in detail, or even an article somewhere, I'd be happy to read that. I've sort of pieced this all together from bits and pieces of other threads and readings, but am looking for a simple one or two paragraph overview to make things clear.

[eddief]

maybe you could narrow them down to a ball park of reasonable size. then maybe someone would take a whack at responding :).

[timto]

WRT 650B conversions here's a great article (http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs/650blog/1771-650b-conversion-guidlines)I came across that covers what to look for a good 650B frame candidate

WRT dedicated big tire bikes - the forks are typically built a little taller (e.g. 380 axle to crown) for use with mid reach brakes like the shimano BR600. With this type of spec you either run a 25ish tire and say a 35 fender (like a honjo) OR you put on some big fat rubber. If a builder really tweaks the details (like bottoming out the slots on mid reach brake and clearance at the brake bridge and BB) you can slip a cross tire into such a beast.

My experience tho - I relalized AFTER I got my Alliance (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=87313&highlight=alliance) that I really ride a bike mostly on pavement anyway and didn't like the 'look' of the gangly brakes and tons of clearance with skinny tires. I had it in my mind to do all of this exploratory kind of cycling on less paved roads yadda yadda... but it didn`t pan out as planned.

My Alliance was a perfect bike for what it was designed for. If I were to do it again I`d have just gone with a standard road bike with fender eyelets, and ask for the fork and frame to be built around maxing out standard brake calipers.

My favorite learning was solid full time fenders in Vancouver winter riding. I didn`t need the All Road part of it...

Here`s a good looking All Road fwiw.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=79634&stc=1&d=1300392682

[MattTuck]

If I am not mistaken, these are all inter-related topics? There are certainly a lot of inter-dependencies at the very least. Was hoping for a more holistic answer than a specific response to any of the exact questions.

If I had to simplify it to a more specific question, it is this. If I wanted a custom frame/fork in order to run fenders and bigger tires, What decisions do I need to make aside from having the builder add fender mounts?

[fiamme red]

If I had to simplify it to a more specific question, it is this. If I wanted a custom frame/fork in order to run fenders and bigger tires, What decisions do I need to make aside from having the builder add fender mounts?How big?

[eddief]

think that is helpful. if i was building a new rain bike via custom, i'd ditch rim brakes all together and move on to disks. for a lot of off road and rougher stuff i'd go to standard mtb tires as to me, 650B is a standard without a purpose. if i was going to be mostly on pavement with the occasional fire road, then 700c would be the choice.

off the rack, this is a ballpark i would consider:

http://civiacycles.com/bikes/bryant/

If I am not mistaken, these are all inter-related topics? There are certainly a lot of inter-dependencies at the very least. Was hoping for a more holistic answer than a specific response to any of the exact questions.

If I had to simplify it to a more specific question, it is this. If I wanted a custom frame/fork in order to run fenders and bigger tires, What decisions do I need to make aside from having the builder add fender mounts?

[Ken Robb]

lots of info on the Rivendell site.

[MattTuck]

How big?

Let's say 27 or bigger.


I was actually looking look at the Ridley Xbow, as it had fender mounts and all that stuff, but they removed the fender mounts in either the current or previous year's model.

Really, I am just interested in knowing what to look out for that could cause a problem or make it impossible. ie. If a fork is too small, it is too small, no amount of rejiggering can make a bigger wheel work in that situation.

[fiamme red]

Let's say 27 or bigger.Many bikes have been designed to use long-reach sidepulls (47-57 mm) with 28mm tires and fenders.

[jr59]

If I am not mistaken, these are all inter-related topics? There are certainly a lot of inter-dependencies at the very least. Was hoping for a more holistic answer than a specific response to any of the exact questions.

If I had to simplify it to a more specific question, it is this. If I wanted a custom frame/fork in order to run fenders and bigger tires, What decisions do I need to make aside from having the builder add fender mounts?

First things first.

You need to decide, or at least have an idea of what you want to do with the said bike. I mean besides ride it. Tour off road, fire roads, single track, or goof around town on our less than perfect roads. Maybe a cross event?
But have a good idea.

Then with that in mind, you can call the builder and ask. Ask about the 650, about brakes, and fenders, racks and lights.
Most of these guys will be able to help you along and are very helpful. Some I am a little ashamed to admit, have helped me and I did not buy a frame from them. SORRY! But all were more than helpful, and gave me some great ideas.

When it comes to 650b, I would call Kirk Paccintte (spell). He seems to understand these as well as anybody, and is a member and posts here.

As my builder always ask me; Helps?

[echelon_john]

You're asking a lot of different questions. Interrelated, but different.

In terms of what tire/fender you can fit on a given frame set, it's helpful to think like a builder. Start with the rim radius, e.g. 311mm (622mm/2) for a 700c wheel. Add the tire height you want to be able to clear, e.g. 32mm. So 311+32=343. Then add how much air/fender space you want. Say 15mm. So 343+15=358mm. This number is the minimum distance you'll want between the axle center and the bottom edge of the fork crown or rear brake bridge/chainstay bridge. So if you're shopping for stock frames, or even if you're going custom, this number is helpful to know, and it has nothing to do with the axle-crown measurement that folks use for forks.

In terms of brake choice, this is governed by the size tire you think will be the max you'll use and the frame/fork. Long reach brakes have come a long way, and you can fit a decently large tire with fender (probably a 32) with a long reach caliper brake. If you want to go bigger, you'll probably want to look at a frame with bosses for mini-v brakes. I say mini-vs over cantis or v-brakes because they work great with road levers without the need for travel agents/adaptors and don't have the front wheel chatter issues of most cantis. They will allow you to run pretty much as big a tire as you want, within reason, with a fender.

So, in terms of your core questions about what to spec if you go custom, it's the axle-bottom of fork crown and axle-brake/chainstay bridge in the rear, and bosses for mini-vs or a drilled crown/bridge for long reach brakes.

Obviously, building for larger tires means ensuring the chainstays will clear the max spec'd tire, as well as the cranks, but this should be the builder's problem, not yours! ; )

Does this answer your question?

JC

[MattTuck]

Thanks all, these answers are extremely helpful.

I don't know that I do enough riding on crappy roads or in the rain to justify this kind of bike, but I wanted to have a better idea of the factors involved so that I can atleast make an informed decision about what will be involved.

[Earl Gray]

Unless you are going to "Plan" to ride in the rain, fenders are not worth the effort.

having them just in case is not worth the trouble

[MattTuck]

Unless you are going to "Plan" to ride in the rain, fenders are not worth the effort.

having them just in case is not worth the trouble

Chicken and egg problem though, right? If you have fenders maybe you are more willing to get out in the wet, but you may not know that until you start riding in the wet with fenders. It may suck just as bad as riding in the rain without fenders!

[Germany_chris]

Why don't you put some fender on your roadbike and see if it works for you?

There are fenders that will work on normal road bikes.

[Grant McLean]

Unless you are going to "Plan" to ride in the rain, fenders are not worth the effort.

having them just in case is not worth the trouble

Depends on if we're talking about the only bike you have.

I have a fender equipped bike that is not my only road bike,
and love having the option of taking it when I need it.

-g

[GRAVELBIKE]

What brake/shift levers will you be using? Your lever choice may affect your brake choice.

Also, what do you consider to be a "wide" tire? For some folks, 28mm is considered wide. The narrowest tire that I presently ride is 32mm, and the widest is 50mm.

Are you retrofitting an existing bike, or considering a new bike? Off-the-peg or custom?

So, it is clear that the current 'in' thing is a big tired rain dirt road bike with fenders.

I've gathered that you can't use typical road brakes when you're running fenders, and I've seen many people talk about canti brakes. My mountain bike (back in the day) with canti brakes was a pain in the butt. V-brakes seemed to work better, in my opinion, are they an option with fenders?

Then there is the whole 650b thing... which I gather is a smaller wheel, allowing for bigger tires. Are there specific forks that you need (beyond just a fork that can handle dual mount brakes) to allow for bigger tires?

Inquiring minds want to know. thanks.

If there was a thread that discussed this in detail, or even an article somewhere, I'd be happy to read that. I've sort of pieced this all together from bits and pieces of other threads and readings, but am looking for a simple one or two paragraph overview to make things clear.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

Everytime I think about taking my fenders off it rains and i end up using them

[MattTuck]

What brake/shift levers will you be using? Your lever choice may affect your brake choice.

Also, what do you consider to be a "wide" tire? For some folks, 28mm is considered wide. The narrowest tire that I presently ride is 32mm, and the widest is 50mm.

Are you retrofitting an existing bike, or considering a new bike? Off-the-peg or custom?

I have a Lemond road bike, no fender mounts, caliper brakes, etc. I don't think I could retrofit this bike.

I would consider off the peg or custom, and the question about brake/shift lever is sort of what I was getting at. if you were designing a bike de novo (from scratch) and thus didn't have limitations of existing parts/compatibility issues, what would you choose as the best solution?

[Ken Robb]

If you have a bike and fork built for you it will be easy to have room for 700x32 tires with fenders and 700x35 and maybe a bit more with no fenders using "standard" not short reach double pivot brakes. If you use cantis such a bike can fit 700x52 tires.

Rivendell has some stock frames/forks that provide these kinds of clearance. Waterford/Gunnar Road Sport frames can fit 700x32 with std. double pivots.

[GRAVELBIKE]

I have a Lemond road bike, no fender mounts, caliper brakes, etc. I don't think I could retrofit this bike.

I would consider off the peg or custom, and the question about brake/shift lever is sort of what I was getting at. if you were designing a bike de novo (from scratch) and thus didn't have limitations of existing parts/compatibility issues, what would you choose as the best solution?

For "real" off-road riding with fat, knobby tires, I prefer disc brakes. For smaller tires and less demanding conditions/terrain, I'll use cantilevers. I would prefer (mini) v-brakes over cantilevers, but because I run Campy levers, the compatible v-brakes (85mm arms) are too short for adequate tire clearance.

FWIW, I run 700C wheels on one bike and 650B on another.

[oldpotatoe]

If you have a bike and fork built for you it will be easy to have room for 700x32 tires with fenders and 700x35 and maybe a bit more with no fenders using "standard" not short reach double pivot brakes. If you use cantis such a bike can fit 700x52 tires.

Rivendell has some stock frames/forks that provide these kinds of clearance. Waterford/Gunnar Road Sport frames can fit 700x32 with std. double pivots.

Road Sport actually made for long reach brakes.

[echelon_john]

I've run TRP CX8.4s with 700x45s and fenders; no clearance problem up to that size, but they wouldn't clear mountain bike tires.

For "real" off-road riding with fat, knobby tires, I prefer disc brakes. For smaller tires and less demanding conditions/terrain, I'll use cantilevers. I would prefer (mini) v-brakes over cantilevers, but because I run Campy levers, the compatible v-brakes (85mm arms) are too short for adequate tire clearance.

FWIW, I run 700C wheels on one bike and 650B on another.

[GRAVELBIKE]

I've run TRP CX8.4s with 700x45s and fenders; no clearance problem up to that size, but they wouldn't clear mountain bike tires.

I tried those same brakes with 650B x 38 tires, and the cable just barely cleared the tire (sans fenders). I suspect the problem was due to brake boss position, though.

[Ken Robb]

Road Sport actually made for long reach brakes.

Mine wasn't. It used 47-57 Shimanos just like my Rambouillet and Romulus. Of course I'm so old that I still call these standard reach because they were until short reach brakes became the new standard. I guess the semantics have gotten confusing so we should just state the dimensions of the brakes we are discussing.

[EricEstlund]

Many of the bikes I build slide along the bigger tire/fender spectrum. I build a good percentage for 25's/ fenders.

This one takes that set up, or up to about a 30 for gravel/ rougher roads with standard short reach road brakes.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7227/6994249096_5b4cdfe7f1_z.jpg

This one was set up for 25's and Honjos, and 28's without.
http://www.winterbicycles.com/wp-content/gallery/mix-n-max-hotrod/mm2.jpg

Think about your needs, then go from there. The ability to take fenders or larger tires isn't a death sentence to a "performance" road bike.

Tire size, fender size and use all play into how the bike is designed and built. When the times comes for a custom, have this conversation with your builder and they will help you piece together the variables that will work for your needs. When working in bike shops I set fenders up on all sorts of bikes not designed for them. It can be done, but starting from the ground up makes things easier for the end user- ie you. To remove the fenders on the blue bike above it's three screws on the front and 4 on the back. No fuss, no muss for seasonal switch outs.

[jimmythefly]

If you were designing a bike de novo (from scratch) and thus didn't have limitations of existing parts/compatibility issues, what would you choose as the best solution?

My ideal (non-disc) solution would be Cunningham lever-link brakes on dedicated pivots.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6686084595_6bb62f3539_z.jpg

Advantages:
Dedicated pivots are stiffer/stronger than using a conventional single caliper mounting bolt.

Full housing run to the brakes means no interference from racks/bags/etc like you can get with centerpulls or cantis.

Pivots located near the pads mean stiffenss/strength in the brake arms.

Pivots located near the widest part of the tire mean that as the brake arms move, they will not squish a wide fender.

I could use the pivot bolts to also mount a small front rack.

By all accounts the lever feel, brake power, modulation, and overall performance is top-notch, surpassing discs in most areas.

Cons:
Expensive.
Scarce.
Require dedicated frame pivots.

A centerpull has almost all of these properties, except that they also need frame/fork/or headset- located housing stops to hang the cables from. A centerpull on dedicated pivots is probably the best reasonable (again, talking non-disc) solution.

Centerpulls on a single conventional brake-caliper mounting bolt won't be as stiff as they could be on dedicated pivots. That fact combined with the needs of hanging cables means I would lean toward long-reach sidepulls, like the Velo-Orange Grand Cru.

As others have said, there are some other minor things to have in the back of your (or the builders) mind, I think. Naturally, you will want the pads at the bottom of the slots in most cases, to make use of all the available clearance possible.

Also, consider the fork geometry. If the fork has a lot of rake, and especially if the caliper-style brake is "thick" and sits well in front of the fork crown, you may end up with a clearance issue there.

Look at this pic:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4070/4441845723_d8d8373e76_z.jpg

Notice how at the rear of the fork crown there is more clearance than at the front of the crown, and much more than at the leading edge of the brake arms. This exact issue caught me on a recent build, I was gonna have a sweet vintage trek rolling on 32s and fenders. No dice under the front (Tektro) brake until I switched back to an old-skool single-pivot 600 caliper.

[dauwhe]

My principles:

[1] A bike that is to be used outdoors should have fenders.

[2] 25mm tires are better than 23mm. 28mm is better than 25mm. 31mm is better than 28mm. 38mm is better than 31mm. 42mm is better than 38mm. So I prefer the Grand Bois Hetre tire, which is 650B x 42mm. It's fast on the road, very comfortable on any surface, and very reassuring when you're going down a steep pot-holed road in the rain in the dark.

[3] So I'm looking at a 42mm tire, and thus (at a minimum) 50mm fender (depending on shape). So sidepull brakes are not an option on the kind of bike I want to ride most of the time. I have cantis (for the first time) on the new bike and am happy with them.

A lovely bicycle that meets all these requirements (and is quite reasonably priced) is available from Boulder Bicycles at http://renehersebicycles.com/Randonneur%20bikes.htm

* * *

Of course, your principles may be different. ;)

Dave

[merckx]

Many of the bikes I build slide along the bigger tire/fender spectrum. I build a good percentage for 25's/ fenders.

This one takes that set up, or up to about a 30 for gravel/ rougher roads with standard short reach road brakes.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7227/6994249096_5b4cdfe7f1_z.jpg

This one was set up for 25's and Honjos, and 28's without.
http://www.winterbicycles.com/wp-content/gallery/mix-n-max-hotrod/mm2.jpg

Think about your needs, then go from there. The ability to take fenders or larger tires isn't a death sentence to a "performance" road bike.

Tire size, fender size and use all play into how the bike is designed and built. When the times comes for a custom, have this conversation with your builder and they will help you piece together the variables that will work for your needs. When working in bike shops I set fenders up on all sorts of bikes not designed for them. It can be done, but starting from the ground up makes things easier for the end user- ie you. To remove the fenders on the blue bike above it's three screws on the front and 4 on the back. No fuss, no muss for seasonal switch outs.

Eric, in the second picture with the blue bicycle, what size tires are those, 25? Also, what model Honjo?

[bicycletricycle]

How do you think you would use a bicycle like this?

There are a few reasons why one might want to build a big tire and/or fendered bicycle.

1. Comfort on the road, I grew up riding road bike with 23/25 tires, I have switched to 28s now and after riding some of the bigger compass and gran bois tires I am planning to try something bigger out for my next "road" bike. Partially this is because of crap Rhode Island Roads and partially this is because I ride by myself and at my own pace and don't care about keeping up with anybody. I haven't had a computer in so long I no longer know how fast I'm going when I ride. Gran bois cypress or 650b hetres just don't feel that much slower and they are so comfortable.

2. Dirt, if you live in a place that has smooth dirt roads riding on them with a road bike is pretty fun and can add some adventure to a road ride. Also, less/no cars on these kinds of roads which is great because apparently you can kill cyclists at random in a car with little to no consequences.

3. All weather, commuters know that full fenders are a must, however, if you don't ride in the rain now I don't think getting a bike with fenders is going to make you go out in the rain when you have a bike with them. Also, fenders are great for touring or very long rides when you can't avoid the weather.

Deciding what you might want to use this bike for will change what kind of bike you want to get. If you just want to get a cool looking trendy all road bike than just pick one that looks cool and don't worry about it ;)


As far as brakes go I'll try to attempt a list of max tire and fender specs for different types , each one will assume a frame and fork built to accommodate the max size for any given brake type (brakes at bottom of slot). So many variables here so these are just sort of best guess averages based on my experience. Also, carbon forks are rarely optimized for tire clearance.

Short reach road caliper brakes (49mm reach)
30 or 25 w/ fender

Medium reach road calipers or paul racer medium (57mm reach)
35 or 28 w/ fender

Paul racer
45 ish (never ran these without fenders) 38 w/ fender

Cantilever or disc
Almost anything


Also, I used to think that 650b was a dumb size and would still if not for the magical hetres 42 tire. Smooth, light, fast, comfy. It is true that most of these things would be true in a 700c version but it would be heavier and there is no 700c version so it doesn't matter.

PS

The cielo cross classic is a cool of the peg bike

PPS

If you want a nice fender bike there is more to it than just having braze ons on the dropouts. Choose a builder who does fender bikes often, details like having the seat stay and chain stay bridge the right distance from the axle so you don't have a bunch of wonky spacers to get the fender fitment right are key. Winter fenders always look legit, my chapmans are top notch.

[merckx]

How do you think you would use a bicycle like this?

There are a few reasons why one might want to build a big tire and/or fendered bicycle.

1. Comfort on the road, I grew up riding road bike with 23/25 tires, I have switched to 28s now and after riding some of the bigger compass and gran bois tires I am planning to try something bigger out for my next "road" bike. Partially this is because of crap Rhode Island Roads and partially this is because I ride by myself and at my own pace and don't care about keeping up with anybody. I haven't had a computer in so long I no longer know how fast I'm going when I ride. Gran bois cypress or 650b hetres just don't feel that much slower and they are so comfortable.

2. Dirt, if you live in a place that has smooth dirt roads riding on them with a road bike is pretty fun and can add some adventure to a road ride. Also, less/no cars on these kinds of roads which is great because apparently you can kill cyclists at random in a car with little to no consequences.

3. All weather, commuters know that full fenders are a must, however, if you don't ride in the rain now I don't think getting a bike with fenders is going to make you go out in the rain when you have a bike with them. Also, fenders are great for touring or very long rides when you can't avoid the weather.

Deciding what you might want to use this bike for will change what kind of bike you want to get. If you just want to get a cool looking trendy all road bike than just pick one that looks cool and don't worry about it ;)


As far as brakes go I'll try to attempt a list of max tire and fender specs for different types , each one will assume a frame and fork built to accommodate the max size for any given brake type (brakes at bottom of slot). So many variables here so these are just sort of best guess averages based on my experience. Also, carbon forks are rarely optimized for tire clearance.

Short reach road caliper brakes (49mm reach)
30 or 25 w/ fender

Medium reach road calipers or paul racer medium (57mm reach)
35 or 28 w/ fender

Paul racer
45 ish (never ran these without fenders) 38 w/ fender

Cantilever or disc
Almost anything


Also, I used to think that 650b was a dumb size and would still if not for the magical hetres 42 tire. Smooth, light, fast, comfy. It is true that most of these things would be true in a 700c version but it would be heavier and there is no 700c version so it doesn't matter.

PS

The cielo cross classic is a cool of the peg bike

PPS

If you want a nice fender bike there is more to it than just having braze ons on the dropouts. Choose a builder who does fender bikes often, details like having the seat stay and chain stay bridge the right distance from the axle so you don't have a bunch of wonky spacers to get the fender fitment right are key. Winter fenders always look legit, my chapmans are top notch.
All good and reasonable thoughts. Here is where I stand. I have three really, really good road bicycles. One of them is even a fender capable bike with 57mm reach brakes. However, over the past couple of years, I have been struggling with my fit. My position on my bikes has remained unchanged for years, and goes back to my competitive days. About a month ago I made a startling discovery during a routine visit to my doctor. I have shrunk 1 1/2 inches in height from my maximum due to degenerative disc disease. Now I know why my reach to the bars has been a struggle. Yes, I am aging. My thought is to sell my current bikes and have just one built around my new body. At this point too, I think I would prefer to maintain only one bicycle. I really like my road racing bikes, but also ride year round in New England. The thought of having a mudguard equipped machine for winter duty still appeals to me. Of course I could go forward with a 57mm brake reach bike, but if the 52mm brakes that I currently have will work with a reasonable winter tire and fenders, I think I would prefer that option. I guess that I would like to marry my current fender bike with one of my road racing machines. By the way, the bike that has the 52mm Campy brakes on it can fit 32c tires, but is not mudguard capable. I guess that I would like that bike with my new fit with mudguards.

[sandyrs]

Matt-

For New England winter riding, wider tires and fenders will open up a lot of opportunities that you don't have without them. Cracked roads are more manageable on big (like, >=28mm) tires and road spray doesn't get on absolutely everything if you have nice, full coverage fenders (with all the crap on the roads, the front fender should be quick release just in case something gets caught in there). Disc brakes probably wouldn't hurt but they aren't a necessity if you're willing to clean your rims and brake pads regularly (takes three minutes). Having a bike you can ride outside on winter days when the weather at that moment isn't bad makes the winters much more tolerable!

[guido]

Having a bike you can ride outside on winter days when the weather at that moment isn't bad makes the winters much more tolerable!

They are still too blanking cold but that is different problem...

[dawgie]

I have several bikes that will handle fatter tires and fenders. I use these bikes mainly for commuting, touring and riding on greenways and unpaved paths. Although I don't like riding in the rain, I end up doing a fair amount of while commuting and touring. IMHO, fenders are a must for regular commuting, touring and riding in the rain.

Although I love my fatter-tire road bikes, don't believe the hype that wider tires are as fast or faster than skinny tires. Wider tires are more comfortable riding (if inflated properly) and provide much surer handling on rough roads and unpaved roads and trails. However, in my experience, most wider tires are slower than narrow tires -- simply due to the extra weight and sometimes rolling resistance. On hilly roads with good pavement, I would much, much rather be riding on of my bikes with narrower and lighter tires.

Canti brakes have several advantages for use on bikes with wider tires and fenders. They have lots of clearance and are very easy to open up for swapping wheels, fixing flats, changing tires, etc. Their stopping power is excellent if properly set up with good pads such as KoolStop salmons. I've got canti brakes on four bikes and totally pleased with them.

[guido]

There is a big difference between fat tires and fast fat tires. Casing, tread (or minimization there of) and other construction details makes a huge difference. In general it can be safe to say that most of the "flat protection" features added to a tire slow it down. It is also interesting how few flats one will get with fat supple tires at lower pressures compared to skinny "puncture resistant" tires at high pressures...

[mhespenheide]

It's fantastic that people are chiming in here, but it's probably a general-interest post at this point... Matt asked the original question back in 2012!

[sandyrs]

It's fantastic that people are chiming in here, but it's probably a general-interest post at this point... Matt asked the original question back in 2012!

Haha... totally missed that. :crap:

[Mzilliox]

Heres a bike that demonstrates some of this. 700c tires, Berthoud Fenders, room for 28mm tires, still has the clean road bike feel, still uses regular brakes.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/264/19754945475_2d754e8427_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/w6Fg3c)Berthoud backside (https://flic.kr/p/w6Fg3c) by Matt.zilliox (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41573599@N06/), on Flickr

there are a lot of ways to get where you want to go. if your fork is too narrow, you can split the fender and attach on either side. its not easy or as clean, but it works.

Its best to start with a bike that had in mind taking fenders and wider tires. I tried to convert my Serotta rapid tour into a rain bike, but it simply did not want to take fenders easily, so i gave up and decided it would be my century/light tour/grocery bike for fair weather. It still takes a wide(ish) 32mm tire, and I wanted to keep it that way, so another reason to skip the fenders.

the above bike always has fenders, they live on the frame, so it will be my rain bike, my rando bike, my all rounder bike.

[merckx]

Heres a bike that demonstrates some of this. 700c tires, Berthoud Fenders, room for 28mm tires, still has the clean road bike feel, still uses regular brakes.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/264/19754945475_2d754e8427_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/w6Fg3c)Berthoud backside (https://flic.kr/p/w6Fg3c) by Matt.zilliox (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41573599@N06/), on Flickr

there are a lot of ways to get where you want to go. if your fork is too narrow, you can split the fender and attach on either side. its not easy or as clean, but it works.

Its best to start with a bike that had in mind taking fenders and wider tires. I tried to convert my Serotta rapid tour into a rain bike, but it simply did not want to take fenders easily, so i gave up and decided it would be my century/light tour/grocery bike for fair weather. It still takes a wide(ish) 32mm tire, and I wanted to keep it that way, so another reason to skip the fenders.

the above bike always has fenders, they live on the frame, so it will be my rain bike, my rando bike, my all rounder bike.

Those are Berthoud 40's I assume. What 28c tires do you have mounted?

[palincss]

If I had to simplify it to a more specific question, it is this. If I wanted a custom frame/fork in order to run fenders and bigger tires, What decisions do I need to make aside from having the builder add fender mounts?

Find yourself a builder who knows what they're doing with respect to bikes like that. That'll answer all your questions. What you really don't want to do is be the alpha tester for a builder's first attempts. Let me suggest you look at Peter Weigle, Jeff Lyon and Mitch Pryor's work to see how it's done right.

[palincss]

Mine wasn't. It used 47-57 Shimanos just like my Rambouillet and Romulus. Of course I'm so old that I still call these standard reach because they were until short reach brakes became the new standard. I guess the semantics have gotten confusing so we should just state the dimensions of the brakes we are discussing.

Did Rivendell ever make a model called "Road Sport"? These days, that model name first makes me think of Boulder, whose Road Sport model is a lively fast bike made for 32mm tires.

[palincss]

All weather, commuters know that full fenders are a must, however, if you don't ride in the rain now I don't think getting a bike with fenders is going to make you go out in the rain when you have a bike with them. Also, fenders are great for touring or very long rides when you can't avoid the weather.


It might not make you go out to ride when it's actually pouring down rain, but how many times have you seen people cancel a ride or decide not to ride when the chance of rain is 40-50%? 40% chance of rain is a 60% chance it won't, and if you can mitigate the downside of losing the bet by riding a bike that won't spray road water up your a$$, onto your feet and in your face, you're much more likely to take the chance. And that means you're going to get in a lot more rides than you would have done otherwise.

What's more, it's not just the rain itself -- there's the whole "wet roads" thing. For some, perhaps, it means a fear of loss of traction; but in my experience that's much more a risk with 23mm tires than it is with 32 or 42mm. And let's face it, it's not fear of skidding, but rather fear of the spray, the dirt, the earth worms stuck up inside your brake arches. Again, if your bike protects itself against the dirt and protects you from the spray, riding on wet roads can be a pleasure.

In fact, you may even go out riding on some of the most beautiful days in the year, a day or two after it snows when the weather has cleared, the sky is blue, the sun is out and it's warmed up to around 40 degrees. It's like riding through a Currier and Ives print, except for the snow melt, streams of water running across the roads. No fenders means you don't notice the beautiful scenery, all you're noticing is the dirty cold road water spraying on your feet and up your back, while those with fenders are enjoying the sights.