OT: So, is facebook worth a chance?

[tuxbailey]

Seems like it is going to IPO this Friday. I wonder if it will repeat LinkedIn's performance and be an easy way to make a few bucks (if one doesn't try to be too greedy.)

[1centaur]

LinkedIn was one of the few tech IPOs that I thought had a good chance of performing well because the press was dismissing it but the user base liked it and it feels like a first mover monopoly.

Facebook has spent months building a conceptual story and getting hyped and Zuckerberg says it's a social mission and not a profit maximizer. To me, that means it's really hard to put a value on. I continue to hate the user interface and think it's the AOL of social media, but what do I know.

But the real answer is that a conceptual tech IPO is a real crapshoot - if you can think your way to betting right then the underwriters have mispriced it.

[Tony T]

Seems like it is going to IPO this Friday. I wonder if it will repeat LinkedIn's performance and be an easy way to make a few bucks (if one doesn't try to be too greedy.)

If you can get an allocation, yes, otherwise I'd be cautious with a market purchase on Friday

[dumbod]

If you can get an allocation, yes, otherwise I'd be cautious with a market purchase on Friday

If you have to ask on an Internet forum, the chances of you getting an allocation are about the same as your chances of winning the TdF.

[45K10]

By their own admission Facebook states that the future of Facebook are views from mobile devices and they have no current or any future ideas on how to make ad revenue
from their android and apple apps.

All that said Facebook has become an integral part of society and most of the people I meet and work with can't believe I am not on Facebook, so it has a great following but I am just not sure how profitable it will be.

[Viper]

MySpace
Then Facebook
I hope Facebook fails
And the world reverts back to
Real friends
Real faces
Real conversation.

Other than a few real friends chatting about how great they are, or 'liking' how great you are, it does offer family to connect and a place to collect photos. It's self-promotion for most, a place to rekindle old, lost flames, marital affairs, stalk ex's and anyone who has 512 friends...has about 450 too many.

The same people who Occupy and hate Big Business...covet Facebook and see Suckerberg, the next Billionaire IPO Man as some champion of the world (and human organs).

/Facebook

[Fixed]

Face book what happened to privacy ?
IMHO cheers :)

[ultraman6970]

They make money selling your info IMO. I was in Facebook with a fake name because i really hate these sites and only a few people knew it was me, suddenly they started asking me to send them a copy of my driver license and phone numbers to verify that the chinese guy called Fuc LLU was there. So my account was cancelled. Never again, don't need it and people ask why or how i dont have a facebook page... duh!

IMO the only guy who won money with this was his creator, besides that we are not seeing a penny out of our info. Sure they sell demographics and other info like phone numbers, email addresses and stuff but it really sucks IMO because at the end there is no privacy at all.

As for people that can't live w/o Facebook, well... they need to get a life, find a lover and have a lot of sex or something... like stay in paceline forums the whole day :D

[William]

Sum up Facebook in 15 seconds... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWGciuLuH8k)






William:)

[fuzzalow]

Currently possess a huge user base with no track record over whether they can be useful or even retained if and when FB needs to monetize against that base.

I have never been receptive to Zuck's pitch about FB making my life better because I can be in touch with my internet "friends" all of the time. That type of inclusive conformity appeals to my inner high-schooler but not to my eclectic sensibilities as an adult.

[Climb01742]

instagram is instructive, i think, about the possible cracks in facebook's foundation. also look at how instagram users reacted to the purchase by fb. there is a well of ill-will toward fb. long-term that can't be good.

[Birddog]

Facebook is where you go to waste time seeing how others (friends) waste their time, unless you're there to post pictures of your grandkids birthday party. Then it is really useful and informative, not.

[benitosan1972]

Social media is currently supported mainly by 16-30yr olds who are fickle, trendy, and disloyal... they jumped on then off Myspace in a matter of a few years, they'll do the same with Facebook, it's been popular for about 2 years now, something new will come along then FB's bubble will pop... my prediction & observation

[charliedid]

Facebook is where you go to waste time seeing how others (friends) waste their time, unless you're there to post pictures of your grandkids birthday party. Then it is really useful and informative, not.

Kinda like internet forums

[victoryfactory]

anyone who has 512 friends...has about 450 too many.
/Facebook

well said, viper.
Will you be my friend?

VF

PS: my next target: People who shop at the supermarket while on their cellphones.

[Nooch]

Social media is currently supported mainly by 16-30yr olds who are fickle, trendy, and disloyal... they jumped on then off Myspace in a matter of a few years, they'll do the same with Facebook, it's been popular for about 2 years now, something new will come along then FB's bubble will pop... my prediction & observation

When facebook was only open to colleges, and your college had to be one of the beta members, and you could only befriend people in your college, it kind of, sort of, made sense. at least, I can justify it because it got me laid in college.

[rugbysecondrow]

I like Facebook for what it is, a way to stay in touch with family and friends...a living Christmas card/letter if you will. For somebody like me who has lived in a few places and who currently lives away from my hometown, it is nice to stay connected with people whom otherwise might have been relegated to a memory due to proximity or lack thereof.

This is a problem I have with people in general, they ought to enjoy something for what it is not what it isn't or what they want it to me. Facebook is great for what it is, a mechanism to stay in touch with people, it facilitates interaction.

As for spam, scams or other stuff, I have never had that problem.

[Viper]

When facebook was only open to colleges, and your college had to be one of the beta members, and you could only befriend people in your college, it kind of, sort of, made sense. at least, I can justify it because it got me laid in college.

With a nickname of "Nooch" you had better be having fun in college! :banana:

The single greatest communication device is the firepit/campfire. Everyone at William's RIR should meet and throw their Smartphones into the fire. The backyard firepit does today in 2012 exactly what it did for the cavemen of centuries past.


PS: People who use and buy drugs, they don't read about how the 49 headless bodies were found in Mexico over the weekend. The peeps who <3 Facebook, but hate Big Money, Capitalism, Greed and Profits...I don't listen to one word they have to say until they are willing to throw two companies into the mix: Apple and Facebook.

Talk to me about Murder Incorporated:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gyXa5bspDVrrLTcDI7YfBLC3yfGw?docId=20cf67db3 9c14b0a99a810e4f18f6f95

And then talk to me about Greed, and hatred of Big Oil, just include these in the discussion as Apple surpasses EXXON OIL in $$$:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/467921-apple-will-displace-exxon-mobil-as-america-s-most-profitable-company

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/14/152653952/facebooks-ipo-could-make-its-ceo-worth-18b

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0514/1224316065838.html

I run Ireland. And I will take down Facebook! :)

[Charles M]

Please re-title the thread "HEADS OR TAILS"

[PQJ]

Facebook's value isn't to individual users as we have all been led to believe. It is to corporations. Free advertising, easy way to reach consumers, and a goldmine of information about what we do, how we do it and who we do it with. Facebook is as dangerous as guns and tobacco. It scares me how ubiquitous FB has become among corporations. Every one of them that is something or aspires to be has a FB (and twitter) connection. But yeah, I may buy for a quick pop.

[FlashUNC]

I'm curious to see how it all plays out. I find it useful for what it is, as others have mentioned.

If anything, its kept me in touch with more folks than I normally would have otherwise. But these things can be a total flash in the pan as well. Anyone remember when MySpace was the king of the castle?

[aaronv]

I have never been receptive to Zuck's pitch about FB making my life better because I can be in touch with my internet "friends" all of the time. That type of inclusive conformity appeals to my inner high-schooler but not to my eclectic sensibilities as an adult.

A fantastic description. Anecdotal evidences is that the adults I know ages 35+ 'hate facebook' or at least the requirement they have to be a member in order do register for events/functions, have a business presence, etc.

[Karin Kirk]

I have been thinking about this IPO for awhile. I've never tried to get in on an IPO before but I am considering trying to make a purchase in the morning with the intent of selling it the same day and maybe holding a bit of it for longer term. Perhaps this is foolish, I don't know. Advice in this regard is welcome.

[Viper]

Facebook's value isn't to individual users as we have all been led to believe. It is to corporations. Free advertising, easy way to reach consumers, and a goldmine of information about what we do, how we do it and who we do it with. Facebook is as dangerous as guns and tobacco. It scares me how ubiquitous FB has become among corporations. Every one of them that is something or aspires to be has a FB (and twitter) connection. But yeah, I may buy for a quick pop.

+1111

"Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whiskey bottle in another"
~Ms Maudie of To Kill a Mockingbird

"Sometimes an Apple Macbook Air logged onto Facebook in the hand of one man or woman is worse than a loaded gun made of gold in another."
~Viper

[tuxbailey]

I have been thinking about this IPO for awhile. I've never tried to get in on an IPO before but I am considering trying to make a purchase in the morning with the intent of selling it the same day and maybe holding a bit of it for longer term. Perhaps this is foolish, I don't know. Advice in this regard is welcome.

That is kind of what I am contemplating. A game of musical chairs? ;)

[rugbysecondrow]

A fantastic description. Anecdotal evidences is that the adults I know ages 35+ 'hate facebook' or at least the requirement they have to be a member in order do register for events/functions, have a business presence, etc.

I don't know about this. There might be a vocal crew who dislike or resent Facebook, but many of the older users on FB I would call power users. This is anecdotal as well.

[Karin Kirk]

That is kind of what I am contemplating. A game of musical chairs? ;)

How are you thinking of doing the AM purchase? Market order at opening? What's your trading platform?

[tuxbailey]

How are you thinking of doing the AM purchase? Market order at opening? What's your trading platform?

I am definitely treating as a trip to LV :) I probably go in with a market order because if I use limit it might become invalid by the time the order is placed.

No margin, actually I don't use margin at all. Never invest with any money that I can't afford to lose.

[Karin Kirk]

I am definitely treating as a trip to LV :) I probably go in with a market order because if I use limit it might become invalid by the time the order is placed.

No margin, actually I don't use margin at all. Never invest with any money that I can't afford to lose.

Agreed on all counts! I will keep mulling it over during the week, but I think I am inclined to give it a try. That said, advice from people who know more about this than I do is very welcome!

[zap]

How are you thinking of doing the AM purchase? Market order at opening? What's your trading platform?

Market order? Say it's priced at US$35, then the millisecond the stock opens it hits US$90/share and then tanks after 2 hours to around US$40. It's happened before.

Let the hype settle and think about future revenue stream.

[tuxbailey]

Facebook's value isn't to individual users as we have all been led to believe. It is to corporations. Free advertising, easy way to reach consumers, and a goldmine of information about what we do, how we do it and who we do it with. Facebook is as dangerous as guns and tobacco. It scares me how ubiquitous FB has become among corporations. Every one of them that is something or aspires to be has a FB (and twitter) connection. But yeah, I may buy for a quick pop.

Great point!

Why I left Google:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jw_on_tech/archive/2012/03/13/why-i-left-google.aspx

I think everyone is trying to be facebook and Google is failing on that front despite many attempts.

[tuxbailey]

Market order? Say it's priced at US$35, then the millisecond the stock opens it hits US$90/share and then tanks after 2 hours to around US$40. It's happened before.

Let the hype settle and think about future revenue stream.

That is a great point too. I certainly won't buy it if it opens at $90. But if the rumor IPO price of $28-$35 is correct and it opens below $50, I might take a shot at it.

[zap]

Additionally, for those thinking of investing in Facebook, have you read this......

http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/000119312512034517/d287954ds1.htm

and the amendments.

[echelon_john]

that's not investing; it's gambling. nothing wrong with rolling the dice, but it's a different proposition entirely.

That is a great point too. I certainly won't buy it if it opens at $90. But if the rumor IPO price of $28-$35 is correct and it opens below $50, I might take a shot at it.

[MattTuck]

There's plenty of evidence to be found on ssrn and other sources that indicates IPO prices (the prices that insiders/allocated investors get) are underpriced, to drive demand and uptake of the shares.

There is less evidence that 'regular investors' can make the same profits when buying at the 'open' on the first day of trading. In fact, I remember reading (though I can't find it) indicating that there is under-performance of IPOs from teh first public trade to 6months.

That is, however, an average. Facebook is not average and is in fact an outlier on a number of fronts. So, I would not be surprised by any number of outcomes including huge run ups the first day to the stock cratering.

To those considering buying it and turning a quick profit, I'd say two things. 1) You're not the only person thinking of doing this, and there are probably people who are much faster/better than you at doing these kinds of things. and 2) there is a fundamental predicate in finance which says Expected Return can only increase when Expected Risk also is higher. Said another way, there is no big reward without big risk.

[MattTuck]

Additionally, for those thinking of investing in Facebook, have you read this......

http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/000119312512034517/d287954ds1.htm

and the amendments.

This image is from their S1... makes you wonder about their china/russia strategy. :eek:

[tuxbailey]

that's not investing; it's gambling. nothing wrong with rolling the dice, but it's a different proposition entirely.

Precisely, hence the word "chance" in the OP. This is definitely not an investment...

[rbtmcardle]

I have had an account for some time, and yes it is great for sharing pictures with friends.. apart from that, it has become more and more about mining my habits and data for their profit. My personal information is more valuable to me than a platform to share pics with friends.. my account has been permanently deleted..

No thanks.. the cost is too high.

Google is probably even worse - but I am not disciplined enough to work around their methods.. its amazing how those Allen Edmonds ads show up on my search pages, after just ordering shoes from them yesterday..it is amazing how much power we have given the webmasters, many people have no idea they are being purposely directed in their shopping habits.. like lemmings to the sea

[biker72]

Joining Facebook???? No chance.
Investing in Facebook....maybe.
If I can get in at the $30-40 range I would buy a few shares. I'm thinking trading will go crazy and the stock price will be waaaay out of my range.

[merlinmurph]

The backyard firepit does today in 2012 exactly what it did for the cavemen of centuries past.

Funny you should mention the firepit. My wife and I were just on vacation in AZ, and stayed at an inn in Sedona that had a great backyard with gorgeous views - and a firepit. The firepit was wonderful. It brought people out at night and got them socializing. Worth it's weight in gold. They catered to mt bikers, too. We'd definitely stay there again.

Regarding Facebook, I've always wondered why they're going public in the first place. Does the business really need the financing? Are they doing it just so a lot of employees can be rich? Why subject your company to the scrutiny a public company has to face if you don't need to? Stay private, distribute the profits to the employees if you wish.

Just wondering....

Murph

[MattTuck]

Funny you should mention the firepit. My wife and I were just on vacation in AZ, and stayed at an inn in Sedona that had a great backyard with gorgeous views - and a firepit. The firepit was wonderful. It brought people out at night and got them socializing. Worth it's weight in gold. They catered to mt bikers, too. We'd definitely stay there again.

Regarding Facebook, I've always wondered why they're going public in the first place. Does the business really need the financing? Are they doing it just so a lot of employees can be rich? Why subject your company to the scrutiny a public company has to face if you don't need to? Stay private, distribute the profits to the employees if you wish.

Just wondering....

Murph

Because the venture capitalists need liquidity to pay their limited partners. and also to get the employees rich. That's how you motivated them for the last 10 years, with the lure of a big liquidity event... promises they'd be rich.


PS. What was the name of that inn? I've heard good things about sedona

[Viper]

Because the venture capitalists need liquidity to pay their limited partners. and also to get the employees rich. That's how you motivated them for the last 10 years, with the lure of a big liquidity event... promises they'd be rich.


PS. What was the name of that inn? I've heard good things about sedona

Dude, go to Sedona for a vacation. Been there twice. Road bike, MTB, jog (longest run I ever had in my life, 11 miles which started two hours before sunrise and it was magic under the stars). Sedona is a slice of awesome.

MURPH - I beg you to order a nice firepit. Browse online:

http://www.firepits.com/?source=googleaw&kwid=firepit&tid=exact&gclid=CLbq3LSxgLACFUZN4AodayxoGg

Cold beer, wine, snacks and firepit. Your wife will hug you.

F*ck Facebook. Do FACETIME.

:beer:

[pedlpwrd]

As for people that can't live w/o Facebook, well... they need to get a life, find a lover and have a lot of sex or something... like stay in paceline forums the whole day :D

+100!! :beer:

[William]

MURPH - I beg you to order a nice firepit. Browse online:

http://www.firepits.com/?source=googleaw&kwid=firepit&tid=exact&gclid=CLbq3LSxgLACFUZN4AodayxoGg

Cold beer, wine, snacks and firepit. Your wife will hug you.

F*ck Facebook. Do FACETIME.

:beer:

The William family version of "Facebook"....:banana:




William

[Viper]

William,

You're doing it right. I see so many kids today with iPod buds Krazy Glued into their ears and Smartphones or laptops glued to their fingertips. "Man feed machine. Machine feed man" sang Peter Gabriel in, 'The Tower That Ate the People'.

Wait.

Wear expensive jeans and a trendy, zip-up hoodie. Wear the hoodie as a form of protest, expression. Okay, I support the hoodie. Trevon Martin should still be here. But Sukerberg is a Steve Jobs wannabe. Will Suckerberg convert to Buddism or Taoism next? Grow a beard? Wear John Lennon spectacles?

Prolly is defintely.

Stand there on stage. Be famous. Feel comfort in the darkness of the large room. Enjoy the stage's light over your head. Adjust the boom mic attached to your ear piece, fiddle with it. Gaze over your shoulder at the large high-def screen with the massive blue 'F'. Pace around on stage. Pretend to be nervous or moreso, intellectual. Make it appear as though you have a lot on your mind. Give the allusion your speech is not prepared as you read off cue cards and tv monitors.

Then pace around some more, slowly, modify your movements to the rhythm of the applause. As you come to a stop, the sky-blue 'F' over your shoulder for the camera and photo-op, you smile: these idiots in the crowd are my sheep and my Powerpoint controller at hand is my staff...I'm 28 years old and about to create value in nothingness as I steal information from these fools and sell it to the highest bidder. I borrow, steal and give the image of a beggar, jeans and a hoodie.

$teve Jobs invented this stage, PT Barnum created the arena and I'm just here for the ride. There's a sucka logging on every minute. I know where. I know how. I know who. I'll pretend to be a liberal, defend the rights of the dead, the poor, the meek. I'm Moses, in a custom Porsche convertible, top down, so I can be closer to God and cause my cell phone gets another bar of signal strength sans top. My people 'Like' me and I "love" them. It's money I lust and this IPO has me hard on. $ocial Networking. I don't pull wool over their eyes, I simply gave them needles and yarn, they made the blanket.

The applause begins to roar. Money. The people want it. I can make it. I'm not the antagonist here. No. I am their hero and this is my Geek Tragedy.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57434173-93/after-facebook-ipo-zuckerbergs-hardest-test-awaits/


Cliffs by Peter Gabriel: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utxfr_XqKkQ


:cool:

[Germany_chris]

Funny you should mention the firepit. My wife and I were just on vacation in AZ, and stayed at an inn in Sedona that had a great backyard with gorgeous views - and a firepit. The firepit was wonderful. It brought people out at night and got them socializing. Worth it's weight in gold. They catered to mt bikers, too. We'd definitely stay there again.

Regarding Facebook, I've always wondered why they're going public in the first place. Does the business really need the financing? Are they doing it just so a lot of employees can be rich? Why subject your company to the scrutiny a public company has to face if you don't need to? Stay private, distribute the profits to the employees if you wish.

Just wondering....

Murph

I think they're going public so Zuck can do one of two things: Zuck need some adult supervision and a board, though he could have both the way it stands now this forces it. Two he wants to step away be the face of face book and not be facebook.

No money of mine will go to a facebook IPO they have a large user base but my gut says google+ will do to facebook what facebook did to myspace. Google is not to be messed with.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think they're going public so Zuck can do one of two things: Zuck need some adult supervision and a board, though he could have both the way it stands now this forces it. Two he wants to step away be the face of face book and not be facebook.

No money of mine will go to a facebook IPO they have a large user base but my gut says google+ will do to facebook what facebook did to myspace. Google is not to be messed with.

Google+ is whack, I still don't get the purpose of it. Facebook is different than Myspace in how it has integrated into society, news, hobbies etc. It also cuts out much of the spam that people got with Myspace.

[PQJ]

William,
But Sukerberg is a Steve Jobs wannabe. Will Suckerberg convert to Buddism or Taoism next? Grow a beard? Wear John Lennon spectacles?

Prolly is defintely.


Have to disagree with you (respectfully of course), Viper. Jobs and Zuckerberg are nothing alike, save for being members of the billionaires club. Like him or not, Jobs was a creative genius. And he invented/drove the invention of pioneering products. Zuckerberg may be smart, but if you ask me, he's more lucky (incredibly lucky, in fact) than brilliant. That may sound like envy, but it isn't; just my objective assessment of the empirical evidence before me.

[Germany_chris]

Google+ is whack, I still don't get the purpose of it. Facebook is different than Myspace in how it has integrated into society, news, hobbies etc. It also cuts out much of the spam that people got with Myspace.

Facebook has integrated absurdly well, and I also use it stay in youch with my an ocean away. I don't like either company but I like UI of google + better than facebook.

I was never a myspace user so I don't know about the spam, but if you have a mac try a browser called Fluid. It creates a desktop app out of favorite web sites doing that sandboxes the website so there is no off site tracking. It has fixed all the bike advertising on the right side of my facebook page.

[redir]

Wow this forum is full of Luddites :p :D

You know they thought the telephone was going to be the bane of society too.

Anyway I love social media and have made quite a bit of money on it the last few years and hope to continue to do so for a while. I don't use Facebook much myself but I use it for work every day. I actually prefer Twitter much more because you can choose who to follow and I follow some very smart and interesting people. As some one mentioned earlier Facebook is really for the narcissistic, or in my case for business and advertising. But it's also a great way for grandma to see the grand kids too. Not every family can live in the same hollow like the Waltons after all. And come to think of it who would want to?

I've been around technology long enough to know that something like Facebook can die at any time and most likely will. Good luck to those who take the gamble, I don't plan on it.

[Viper]

Have to disagree with you (respectfully of course), Viper. Jobs and Zuckerberg are nothing alike, save for being members of the billionaires club. Like him or not, Jobs was a creative genius. And he invented/drove the invention of pioneering products. Zuckerberg may be smart, but if you ask me, he's more lucky (incredibly lucky, in fact) than brilliant. That may sound like envy, but it isn't; just my objective assessment of the empirical evidence before me.

We totally agree. Post # 45 shows my thoughts on Suckerberg.

[ClutchCargo]

MySpace
Then Facebook
I hope Facebook fails
And the world reverts back to
Real friends
Real faces
Real conversation.

Other than a few real friends chatting about how great they are, or 'liking' how great you are, it does offer family to connect and a place to collect photos. It's self-promotion for most, a place to rekindle old, lost flames, marital affairs, stalk ex's and anyone who has 512 friends...has about 450 too many.

The same people who Occupy and hate Big Business...covet Facebook and see Suckerberg, the next Billionaire IPO Man as some champion of the world (and human organs).

/Facebook

Wow.
I have no bias--pro or anti--regarding Facebook. Not on it. But my daughter uses it every day, not to self-promote, stalk or "like" stuff, but to stay connected with her "real-life" friends, both near and far. As far as I can tell, for her it's mainly a way to stay in touch when getting together in person is not an option. You know, like using a phone. It's been a great way to keep in touch with her college mates while she has been studying abroad, as well as for carrying out plans to get together with friends who are also abroad in different cities. You know, for when they'll be gathering around the campfire in Brussels.

P.S. It would be remiss not to compliment you on the admittedly amusing irony of issuing your critique through an internet chat forum.

[redir]

Wow.
I have no bias--pro or anti--regarding Facebook. Not on it. But my daughter uses it every day, not to self-promote, stalk or "like" stuff, but to stay connected with her "real-life" friends, both near and far. As far as I can tell, for her it's mainly a way to stay in touch when getting together in person is not an option. You know, like using a phone. It's been a great way to keep in touch with her college mates while she has been studying abroad, as well as for carrying out plans to get together with friends who are also abroad in different cities. You know, for when they'll be gathering around the campfire in Brussels.

P.S. It would be remiss not to compliment you on the admittedly amusing irony of issuing your critique through an internet chat forum.

I was just hanging out by a virtual camp fire last week as an avatar in a 3D model virtual world with a good friend from Switzerland and a couple from Germany discussing travel plans for this summer.

Yes I love technology :)

[Viper]

P.S. It would be remiss not to compliment you on the admittedly amusing irony of issuing your critique through an internet chat forum.

I point out the flaws of Facebook, the silliness of it's leader and his now famous IPO, while demonstrating the best Facebook is facetime (near a firepit). I'd quote Mr. D. Vader to Zuckerburg, "Don't be too proud of this technological (terror) you've constructed." He's going to make billions of dollars while creating nothing. Some would argue he's only been outdone by...religion. Faith is free. Religion? There's a fee (see fine print) and it's a business.

Am I the only one? Surely not. Am I first? Far from it; there are oodles of people and studies who ask, "Is Facebook somewhat evil, is Facebook bringing us closer together or is Facebook pushing us apart?"

One can Google such studies or research the subjects. I've made up my mind long ago on Facebook. Does it have benefits, can it be used for good? Yes. Will it now become a multi-billion dollar Corporation? Does it spy on you? Your daughter? Do you oppose the Patriot Act, but log onto Facebook daily? These and many more questions should be debated, discussed and not disguised. Perhaps...they ought to be tackled for a few minutes, not too long...around a firepit.

Would welcome a debate with Mr. Zuckerburg. I enjoy great discussion and technology, Darth Vader and Facebook are all very interesting topics. Social Media has clear benefits as well. "It comes down to the user", but there is much more to the topic that just that all-encompassing statement. Does Facebook infringe on personal rights more, less or the same as The Patriot Act? And that is merely one question. There are many.

'Poll Shows Most Users Distrust Facebook':

http://marketday.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/15/11703181-poll-shows-most-users-distrust-facebook?lite

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/mar/17/facebook-dark-side-study-aggressive-narcissism

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/tech/social-media/facebook-narcissistic-behaviors/index.html

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/too-much-facebook-time-leads-to-depression-in-girls/11115

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/facebooks-ipo-a-study-in-arrogance/2012/02/13/gIQAfy57BR_story.html

http://rield.com/faq/why-is-facebook-bad

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/05/facebook-evil

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-g-baker/facebooks-arrogance_b_580997.html

:)

[tuxbailey]

No money of mine will go to a facebook IPO they have a large user base but my gut says google+ will do to facebook what facebook did to myspace. Google is not to be messed with.

You mean, like Google Wave? :p

I have a Google+ account but I never use it. Google is working hard to take a slice from facebook in the social media front but I do think that facebook has the first mover advantage here and its UI is more or less useful.

I never had a MySpace acct and I get a headache when I look at some of the MySpace pages.

[Wayne77]

Here's my rant:

I cancelled (permanently deleted) my FB account last Friday after 4 years of involvement. It feels great. The idea that a social networking site like FB is necessary to "stay connected" is one of the biggest fallacies ever. Maximizing the number of superficial connections we have (via FB or other means) is extremely over-valued. And that's what FB is about. It's just noise. We only have so much bandwidth in our lives. Develop the quality connections. A connection is an investment.

Facebook can be a big time waster. time = money. time = time on the bike. Cancelling FB = free money. Cancelling FB = free time on bike.

I have other ways of staying connected with my friends, local and across the pond, all of them much more personal.

95% of what people post on FB is noise. Who cares if all your acquaintances, genuine and superficial don't know what you're up to on a given day? A little mystery is a good thing. Might even give someone an excuse to call you, or you them.

But my biggest beef with the whole thing isn't necessarilly the needless distration of it all. It's the online personas that start replacing real ones. It's the fact that my very generous neighbor down the street is posting so much meaningless crap that now I form these distorted perceptions based on his online activity. I know for a fact that he's a better person than his online "persona". So now I have an excuse not to talk to him because I know that he got a new grill on Sunday (top of the line), on Monday he wanted everyone to know that he flew First Class to Madrid. On Tuesday, he posted a picture of himself on the beach (some dudes shouldn't be shirtless...ever). On Friday, he sat next to a girl on the flight home that threw up all over him. On Sat, he went on some meaningless rant about the local hardware store. But I go on a walk and he waves me over and wants to know if he can help move the two massive boulders he saw me trying to rearrange the other day.

That's my problem with Facebook.

[TMB]

The problem with getting rid of facebook is that so many organizations and events now use it as their primary way to "push" updates and information.

So you register for a GF or a 10K, most of those organizations do all of their communication via FB.

I also use it to "subscribe" to a bunch of newspapers - they push their top stories every day, and checking it gets me into the newspapers websites, where I would otherwise forget to check regularly.

I only have about 5 "friends" on FB, the rest is events, newspapers and magazines.

[Viper]

Here's my rant:

I cancelled (permanently deleted) my FB account last Friday after 4 years of involvement. It feels great. The idea that a social networking site like FB is necessary to "stay connected" is one of the biggest fallacies ever. Maximizing the number of superficial connections we have (via FB or other means) is extremely over-valued. And that's what FB is about. It's just noise. We only have so much bandwidth in our lives. Develop the quality connections. A connection is an investment.Facebook can be a big time waster. time = money. time = time on the bike. Cancelling FB = free money. Cancelling FB = free time on bike.I have other ways of staying connected with my friends, local and across the pond, all of them much more personal.

95% of what people post on FB is noise. Who cares if all your acquaintances, genuine and superficial don't know what you're up to on a given day? A little mystery is a good thing. Might even give someone an excuse to call you, or you them.

But my biggest beef with the whole thing isn't necessarilly the needless distration of it all. It's the online personas that start replacing real ones.

That's my problem with Facebook.

Interesting read and I highlighted the things that both cracked me up and I felt identical to. You obviously have a strong perspective as you were a four-year user who left. The reasons you grew to dislike it were the same for me. And I watched a few people who I really thought I knew turn into very different people when they a). got a Smartphone b). became literally ADDICTED to Facebook c). became manic or depressed while they read Facebook updates d). woke up and grabbed their laptop for Facebook before saying, "Good morning" while claiming not to be addicted.

Facebook is in some ways a mirror. Vanity can do funny things to people and people do funny things with their vanity. Facebook was mocked on '30 Rock' as, "Youface". Great episode.

I liked that commercial where the kid mocked the parents for not having a lot of Facebook friends etc, meanwhile the parents were out camping and doing lots of real stuff.

I've known friends who used it solely to hook up with their ex's, even while they were in relationships, even married. The data is odd, some 1-5 divorces have Facebook involvement:

http://www.examiner.com/article/1-5-divorces-blamed-on-facebook-affairs

I had a friend, a serious Facebook addict, tell me all the time that, "Facebook is what you make of it" and the same friend made some amazing errors indeed.

Looking at fairly recent data, it'd seem the vast majority of the people agree with you as they view Facebook as a waste of time, or something not to be trusted:

http://this1that1whatever.com/images/facebook-waste-of-time-jan-2011.jpg

http://this1that1whatever.com/blog/2011/01/12-not-joining-facebook.php

Wayne, if you are ever near NY, drop me a PM. I'll ride with ya.

:beer:

[redir]

So some people can't deal with the new technology I'm sure they would be emotionally challenged in something else if FB was never invented. Like I said I like social media and even make a living off of it. I also ride 200 miles a week, build and repair guitars, play in a rock band, have two cats, a big fish tank, a huge vegetable garden, play video games and sail.

Not every one who loves social media is some sort of closeted dork or cheating on their wife or even wasting too much time.

I know a few people who are addicted to alcohol so does that make all people who drink bad?

Anything can have a tendency to be abused.

[ClutchCargo]

Here's my rant:

1) I cancelled (permanently deleted) my FB account last Friday after 4 years of involvement. It feels great. The idea that a social networking site like FB is necessary to "stay connected" is one of the biggest fallacies ever. Maximizing the number of superficial connections we have (via FB or other means) is extremely over-valued. And that's what FB is about. It's just noise. We only have so much bandwidth in our lives. Develop the quality connections. A connection is an investment.

2) Facebook can be a big time waster. time = money. time = time on the bike. Cancelling FB = free money. Cancelling FB = free time on bike.

3) I have other ways of staying connected with my friends, local and across the pond, all of them much more personal.

4) 95% of what people post on FB is noise. Who cares if all your acquaintances, genuine and superficial don't know what you're up to on a given day? A little mystery is a good thing. Might even give someone an excuse to call you, or you them.

5) But my biggest beef with the whole thing isn't necessarilly the needless distration of it all. It's the online personas that start replacing real ones. It's the fact that my very generous neighbor down the street is posting so much meaningless crap that now I form these distorted perceptions based on his online activity. I know for a fact that he's a better person than his online "persona". So now I have an excuse not to talk to him because I know that he got a new grill on Sunday (top of the line), on Monday he wanted everyone to know that he flew First Class to Madrid. On Tuesday, he posted a picture of himself on the beach (some dudes shouldn't be shirtless...ever). On Friday, he sat next to a girl on the flight home that threw up all over him. On Sat, he went on some meaningless rant about the local hardware store. But I go on a walk and he waves me over and wants to know if he can help move the two massive boulders he saw me trying to rearrange the other day.

That's my problem with Facebook.

1) Who says FB is "necessary" to stay connected? Useful, maybe. Does FB really prevent well-adjusted people from developing "quality connections"? Sorry, I don't see it.

2) Okay. But so can internet chat rooms, video games, TV, Netflix, jerking off . . . and a lot of other things.

3) Such as . . . ? I really don't see the difference between e-mail/texts/phone calls/smoke signals and private messages sent via FB.

4) Why are you wasting time viewing the 95%, instead of focusing on your friends who are among the 5%? Annoying problem solved, no?

5) I agree with you about the creation of onl-line personas, but that's not unique to FB. I would venture to say it happens quite a bit right here, in fact.

Like much of the internet, or other technologies that we use, it is what you make of it, and you can control how you choose to use it.

[Wayne77]

Wayne, if you are ever near NY, drop me a PM. I'll ride with ya.

:beer:

:beer: to that!

[jpw]

well said, viper.
Will you be my friend?

VF

PS: my next target: People who shop at the supermarket while on their cellphones.

Research has shown that no one person can maintain more than a maximum of 150 social contacts.

[Wayne77]

Post #59: Having an opinion about the value of time spent on a site like FB versus spending that time on other things doesn't make one a luddite. I work for a technology company, big fan of it actually. Social computing aint going away. Love your alchohol argument though...yes, I think we can agree that inanimate objects like guns, alchoholic beverages, and all the bits and bytes that make up a social networking site aren't inherently bad. It's how you use them (queue the inspirational music). If you value your facebooking time as much as the time you could be spending on the bike, in your rock band, with your video games, fish, and two cats, and you've found that perfect balance in your life between FB and those other activities, more power to ya. I personally find that (my own) ROI on FB usage is next to zero...but that's just me. I also build guitars. I like to build up bikes (not frames) - two in the last month, I have three kids, one autistic son who is a freaking blast to hang out with, I like to point a camera at things that are compelling, neighbors who love to BBQ, a job that I love, etc etc. Reading Social Networking feeds is at the bottom of the entertainment food chain (in my opinion! - this is not a statement of fact!).

If I were indefinitely stuck in a room with no books, no one to talk to, no other media, with a computer that did nothing else but connect to FB, I'm sure I would come to enjoy it immensely. :)

The "if you hate FB, you must be an emotionally challenged luddite" argument doesn't add up to much. It's about choices, not stereotypes.

[MattTuck]

GM just announced today that they aren't going to be advertising on facebook anymore. The ads weren't worth it.

Since that is the primary way facebook plans to make money, from display ads, this doesn't seem promising for long term investors.

[TMB]

GM just announced today that they aren't going to be advertising on facebook anymore. The ads weren't worth it.

Since that is the primary way facebook plans to make money, from display ads, this doesn't seem promising for long term investors.

Actually I think the primary way that FB makes money is by selling your details, I think advertising is secondary.

[Wayne77]

1) This was only a statement intended to reflect a general sentiment that not-so-well adjusted people hold on to when asked about why they facebook as much as they do, why they have 2,000 "friends", why they could NEVER do without facebook because, oh the horror...they would loose connection to all humanity! Of course any well adjusted person has the the capacity to make an intelligent decision about how to manage one's time, whether on Facebook, jerking off as you say, watching tv, riding bikes, hanging with the family, etc. Those are individual decisions. But everyone only has 24 hours in the day.

2) Yes, I agree with this. Did I say that the only time-waster is FB??? How is this relevant to the topic at hand?

3) Isn't it obvious? A personal visit maybe? A phone call, where heaven forbid, you can hear a voice. Voice inflection is just as invaluable in business communication as it is in personal. Please don't make this an either/or discussion. Everything has it's place, but I've found FB to be a pathetic avenue for social networking (for my purposes); the pros are far outweighed by all the negatives.

4) Why sift through the noise, ads, meaningless drivel, etc etc to get to the 5% that is meaningful? And even then, that 5% isn't even close to a true representation of what's going on with one's meaningful relationships in reality.

5) Yes, I agree with this. Are we not discussing FB here? People do things behind a steering wheel that they'd never do in person too...Not sure how this relates to the discussion.

Anyway, I'll have to apologize to the OP - as my commentary is veering more OT. So I'll let those with stronger opinions about the upcoming IPO than I do continue to weigh in. But to finish up, I think social networking is just dandy. Many of us (myself included) make money off it. Of course FB'ers are not mal-adjusted, social outcasts. Lots of my very good friends do the FB thing. But I chose to step away, because I'd rather spend that 20-30 min daily doing other things. But people do give the FB version of social networking far more credit than is due. It can provide an occasional mildly entertaining diversion I guess, if one is so inclined to weed through all the drivel, ads, and status updates of what so and so's ex said to them last week.

1) Who says FB is "necessary" to stay connected? Useful, maybe. Does FB really prevent well-adjusted people from developing "quality connections"? Sorry, I don't see it.

2) Okay. But so can internet chat rooms, video games, TV, Netflix, jerking off . . . and a lot of other things.

3) Such as . . . ? I really don't see the difference between e-mail/texts/phone calls/smoke signals and private messages sent via FB.

4) Why are you wasting time viewing the 95%, instead of focusing on your friends who are among the 5%? Annoying problem solved, no?

5) I agree with you about the creation of onl-line personas, but that's not unique to FB. I would venture to say it happens quite a bit right here, in fact.

Like much of the internet, or other technologies that we use, it is what you make of it, and you can control how you choose to use it.

[tuxbailey]

Anyway, I'll have to apologize to the OP - as my commentary is veering more OT. So I'll let those with stronger opinions about the upcoming IPO than I do continue to weigh in. But to finish up, I think social networking is just dandy. Many of us (myself included) make money off it. Of course FB'ers are not mal-adjusted, social outcasts. Lots of my very good friends do the FB thing. But I chose to step away, because I'd rather spend that 20-30 min daily doing other things. But people do give the FB version of social networking far more credit than is due. It can provide an occasional mildly entertaining diversion I guess, if one is so inclined to weed through all the drivel, ads, and status updates of what so and so's ex said to them last week.

That is cool. FB is a hot topic this week so any discussion about it is okay in this thread. You can't make a thread more OT since it is already OT.

As for my personal use of FB, I don't have hundreds of FB friends, but it does allow me to keep in touch with friends and family who have moved away to the West Coast as well as Canada. Plus it is also interesting to find out what has happened to to some of my old HS and College friends.

[FlashUNC]

So Facebook = bad.

Internet cycling forum = good.

Seems to be picking the fly poop out of the pepper here.

[tkbike]

Seems like it is going to IPO this Friday. I wonder if it will repeat LinkedIn's performance and be an easy way to make a few bucks (if one doesn't try to be too greedy.)

Did anybody respond to the actual question? I don't let my personal values or opinions of a company prevent me from investing. I am probably the only person in the USA who will never own an Apple product, but they've put a lot of money in my retirement account. And yes, I will be watching them closely late afternoon!

[tuxbailey]

Did anybody respond to the actual question? I don't let my personal values or opinions of a company prevent me from investing. I am probably the only person in the USA who will never own an Apple product, but they've put a lot of money in my retirement account. And yes, I will be watching them closely late afternoon!

Careful now...the overwhelming theme regarding FB is gambling, not investing :) And I think I agree to that in some way too...

[Viper]

Metropolis - Facebook - Peter Gabriel - The Shift Change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbeG42jV9sI

After a month on Facebook I asked, is this the big deal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YnTKhyWRfk

Facebook is not hot, wet, real and is running out of steam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTL8uEEa_b0

Bonus on topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyT32C3XgQ&feature=related

In Yoshiwara's house of sin the false Maria was celebrating her triumphant deception. And Zuckerburg enjoyed chilled vodka and a lap dance.

:beer:

[Wayne77]

So Facebook = bad.

Internet cycling forum = good.

Seems to be picking the fly poop out of the pepper here.

These arguments about things being all good or all bad, either/or, this vs that, etc are simplistic. I would think in a forum like this, arguments that try to imply a dichotomy on subjects like this wouldn't even come up. It's a rather simplistic way of thinking. Life is progression. Maybe something happens in life sometime that would cause one to re-evaluate participation on a cycling forum. That may be considered "progress" by some, or it may be called "crawling back into a cave" by the FB fans out there. My comments are directed at those people. Something that one considers a complete waste of time* today may not have been that way two years ago.

That said, I'll take the invaluable cycling info I glean from the experts and friends here, about a sport I'm passionate about, over sifting through FB noise any day. thepaceline.net > facebook.com.

This very discussion is far more interesting than 95% of what goes out on the FB wire every day (in my opinion at least).


*Complete Waste of Time: Activities undertaken that may or may not provide value or fulfillment (however one defines that), but the amount of value that is provided is significantly less than the value that could have been obtained pursuing a different activity that can reasonably be performed within the same time constraints, location, environment, etc.

[Wayne77]

Channeling some Viper:

Top 40 Phil Collins: What FB is. So much potential. One of the best rock drummers of his day. And he ends up doing stuff like this. so sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1kDmnHyOBg

Peter Gabriel: What FB could have been
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLg-8Jxi5aE


Metropolis - Facebook - Peter Gabriel - The Shift Change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbeG42jV9sI

After a month on Facebook I asked, is this the big deal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YnTKhyWRfk

Facebook is not hot, wet, real and is running out of steam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTL8uEEa_b0

Bonus on topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyT32C3XgQ&feature=related

In Yoshiwara's house of sin the false Maria was celebrating her triumphant deception. And Zuckerburg enjoyed chilled vodka and a lap dance.

:beer:

[FlashUNC]

These arguments about things being all good or all bad, either/or, this vs that, etc are simplistic. I would think in a forum like this, arguments that try to imply a dichotomy on subjects like this wouldn't even come up. It's a rather simplistic way of thinking. Life is progression. Maybe something happens in life sometime that would cause one to re-evaluate participation on a cycling forum. That may be considered "progress" by some, or it may be called "crawling back into a cave" by the FB fans out there. My comments are directed at those people. Something that one considers a complete waste of time* today may not have been that way two years ago.

That said, I'll take the invaluable cycling info I glean from the experts and friends here, about a sport I'm passionate about, over sifting through FB noise any day. thepaceline.net > facebook.com.

This very discussion is far more interesting than 95% of what goes out on the FB wire every day (in my opinion at least).


*Complete Waste of Time: Activities undertaken that may or may not provide value or fulfillment (however one defines that), but the amount of value that is provided is significantly less than the value that could have been obtained pursuing a different activity that can reasonably be performed within the same time constraints, location, environment, etc.

I just find it a bit of mental gymnastics to say Facebook is shallow end of the tub that needs to never have existed, but an online forum where folks talk about bikes is far, far superior.

Facebook, like the forum, is a tool, imo. It is what you make out of it.

Do some people use it for silly, frivilous things? Sure. That's the nature of the beast when you have 900 million users.

What I don't understand is given the rather compelling evidence that Facebook/Twitter et al have contributed to some pretty astounding social changes -- the Arab Spring comes to mind -- that may not have happened otherwise, folks still say that the world would be better off without this stuff.

Yeah, ideally, we all would love to gather round the fire pit and crack open a cold one. Would make a great Old Milwaukee ad campaign.

And if you think its silly, more power to you. But clearly there are folks out there who get some use out of it, for varying degrees of social interaction.

[tuxbailey]

I just find it a bit of mental gymnastics to say Facebook is shallow end of the tub that needs to never have existed, but an online forum where folks talk about bikes is far, far superior.

Facebook, like the forum, is a tool, imo. It is what you make out of it.

Do some people use it for silly, frivilous things? Sure. That's the nature of the beast when you have 900 million users.

What I don't understand is given the rather compelling evidence that Facebook/Twitter et al have contributed to some pretty astounding social changes -- the Arab Spring comes to mind -- that may not have happened otherwise, folks still say that the world would be better off without this stuff.

Yeah, ideally, we all would love to gather round the fire pit and crack open a cold one. Would make a great Old Milwaukee ad campaign.

And if you think its silly, more power to you. But clearly there are folks out there who get some use out of it, for varying degrees of social interaction.

I have to agree with this. Facebook/Twitter may well be a waste of time to most, but they are indeed very powerful. And that is why China ban them...

[MadRocketSci]

Careful now...the overwhelming theme regarding FB is gambling, not investing :) And I think I agree to that in some way too...

i would say more ponzi-like than gambling...most people don't have a good idea of the fair market cap of the company, based on growth rates, new markets, moats, etc, so basically it is all about buying from the big boys and HFT computers and hoping the bigger fool comes along to take it off your hands...in ponzi's you eventually run out of fools.

[PQJ]

GM just announced today that they aren't going to be advertising on facebook anymore. The ads weren't worth it.

Since that is the primary way facebook plans to make money, from display ads, this doesn't seem promising for long term investors.

Also, more current investors are looking to cash out than was previously expected. They don't see much upside, apparently.

[Karin Kirk]

So Tux, now that the day is drawing near, do you have a strategy in mind? I am starting to feel more hesitant about it. What say you?

[Wayne77]

FlashUNC, tuxbailey: All good points...to clarify (again): I don't think FB is inherently silly or bad or shallow. but many choose not to use it because they have made an individual determination that there are other things they find much much more rewarding. See my definition of "waste of time" above. One man's waste of time isn't necessarily another's. One man's trash is another's treasure. It's all relative. More power to those that use FB for world changing / noble causes. But those use cases represent a smaller subset of the whole. Social Networking as an avenue is here to stay and will evolve. Hopefully we'll see new models that greatly improve upon the FB model. We all know where the FB DNA comes from. That DNA is still evident everywhere, whether it's their approach to information sharing, ads, noise filtering, or their penchant for switching things up randomly every few months with no clear product direction.

I don't know anyone personally that would say the world would be better off without things like FB or Twitter, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who finds much more rewarding things to spend my time doing. But then again I don't live in China, nor can I credibly claim to have any involvement in the Arab Spring. Anyway, this has been a very good discussion and always excellent to get good / balancing viewpoints. Cheers!


I just find it a bit of mental gymnastics to say Facebook is shallow end of the tub that needs to never have existed, but an online forum where folks talk about bikes is far, far superior.

Facebook, like the forum, is a tool, imo. It is what you make out of it.

Do some people use it for silly, frivilous things? Sure. That's the nature of the beast when you have 900 million users.

What I don't understand is given the rather compelling evidence that Facebook/Twitter et al have contributed to some pretty astounding social changes -- the Arab Spring comes to mind -- that may not have happened otherwise, folks still say that the world would be better off without this stuff.

Yeah, ideally, we all would love to gather round the fire pit and crack open a cold one. Would make a great Old Milwaukee ad campaign.

And if you think its silly, more power to you. But clearly there are folks out there who get some use out of it, for varying degrees of social interaction.

[tuxbailey]

So Tux, now that the day is drawing near, do you have a strategy in mind? I am starting to feel more hesitant about it. What say you?

hehe. Not really. I am on the side line and I am going to play by ears. I certainly won't buy if it opens at $80+.

But if by some luck I can get something under $50 I might go for it and then sell them later in the day. Like I said, it might be a game of musical chairs (or Ponzi scheme) and I don't want to be the last one out...

Like many said, people are not sure about facebook's earning model so if it is too expensive I will just skip.

[Karin Kirk]

Very reasonable. I will likely do something similar. I will be awfully curious to see if it rockets up immediately upon opening. If you could catch it at $50 that seems like a reasonable moment to jump in.

I'll be there with the buy order filled out - but waiting to see what happens. It will be interesting one way or another!

[ClutchCargo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303879604577408414145624618.html

Not pertinent to the game Karin K. is considering playing (hope your playing
that game with house money, KK), but interesting nonetheless. Although I
don't interpret early investor/private equity types increasing the % of their
holdings they plan to sell as the IPO price increases as a sign that they have
little faith in the company's long-term prospects. That's simply not their
mandate; they're not long-term investors.

[zap]

snip


But if by some luck I can get something under $50 I might go for it and then sell them later in the day. Like I said, it might be a game of musical chairs (or Ponzi scheme) and I don't want to be the last one out...



Pre ipo shares were trading at $45/share several weeks ago. Why didn't you jump in then?

[MattTuck]

Very reasonable. I will likely do something similar. I will be awfully curious to see if it rockets up immediately upon opening. If you could catch it at $50 that seems like a reasonable moment to jump in.

I'll be there with the buy order filled out - but waiting to see what happens. It will be interesting one way or another!

If you hit it out of the park and make a lot of money, do you think you can convince your husband to build my bike for free, since he'll be a kept man...?

[Climb01742]

GM pulling out of FB advertising could be a harbinger of madison ave. skepticism of FB as a google-like ad platform. without greater ad revenue, it's hard to justify the high-end of FB valuations. as an ad guy, i see FB more as a communications platform than an ad platform. lastly, for how many people is FB an indispensable part of their lives? vs google? vs apple? FB feels more temporal than many other tech companies. just my .000000000002 cents worth.;)

[tuxbailey]

snip



Pre ipo shares were trading at $45/share several weeks ago. Why didn't you jump in then?

I didn't realize one could buy pre-IPO shares. That shows how much I know :)

[MadRocketSci]

for those who aren't planning on going for the quick flip and holding longer term...read this first...

Growth in use of Facebook through our mobile products, where our ability to monetize is unproven, as a substitute for use on personal computers may negatively affect our revenue and financial results.


We had 488 million MAUs who used Facebook mobile products in March 2012. While most of our mobile users also access Facebook through personal computers, we anticipate that the rate of growth in mobile usage will exceed the growth in usage through personal computers for the foreseeable future, in part due to our focus on developing mobile products to encourage mobile usage of Facebook. We have historically not shown ads to users accessing Facebook through mobile apps or our mobile website. In March 2012, we began to include sponsored stories in users’ mobile News Feeds. However, we do not currently directly generate any meaningful revenue from the use of Facebook mobile products, and our ability to do so successfully is unproven. We believe this increased usage of Facebook on mobile devices has contributed to the recent trend of our daily active users (DAUs) increasing more rapidly than the increase in the number of ads delivered. If users increasingly access Facebook mobile products as a substitute for access through personal computers, and if we are unable to successfully implement monetization strategies for our mobile users, or if we incur excessive expenses in this effort, our financial performance and ability to grow revenue would be negatively affected.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/000119312512222368/d287954ds1a.htm#toc287954_2

[Viper]

Facebook worth a chance
Hundred twenty five billion
Friendships and burgers
McD's serves same crap

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...tm#toc287954_2

[Ralph]

I buy and sell stocks faily often. Don't have a clue about the value of FB. Will step aside for this one.

[Karin Kirk]

If you hit it out of the park and make a lot of money, do you think you can convince your husband to build my bike for free, since he'll be a kept man...?

While I adore the idea of Dave being a kept man, that seems unlikely given the relatively small amount I'd be gambling with this purchase. But yes, if I somehow make 10 million dollars (isn't that the amount the forum decided several months ago means you're truly rich?) then it will mean free bikes all around. Wheee!!!

[jr59]

While I adore the idea of Dave being a kept man, that seems unlikely given the relatively small amount I'd be gambling with this purchase. But yes, if I somehow make 10 million dollars (isn't that the amount the forum decided several months ago means you're truly rich?) then it will mean free bikes all around. Wheee!!!

Does Dave know of this?

Awwwww...who cares? We got the ok from the boss!! :banana:

BTW; I approve this decision!

[Karin Kirk]

Does Dave know of this?
No, he doesn't. Do you think I should have asked him first? :eek:

[fuzzalow]

Announced FB IPO price set at $38.00.

Gentlemen and gentlewomen, start your engines. Good luck to those who'll trade it, even more good luck to those with the leap of faith to invest in it - you brave stakeholders figured something out about FB that is a mystery to me.

[tuxbailey]

Actually, looking how Apple's price had been depressed over the week, maybe that is a better buy for a mid-term investment... ;)

[jimsantos]

Placed a limit order for 25 shares.

At worst I'm out $1500, best case is 11s and some carbon wheels :-)

[54ny77]

Facebooks a pain in the ass. Not on it, no desire to, i dont understand it.

Apparently i'm dumb because some folks value it enough to be a staggering wealth creator.

Oh well....

[Mattbotak]

Thought about it and then realized how much I dislike it and how I completely ignore any ads that pop up. I'm going to pass on this one but I'm looking forward to seeing the ride.

[jimsantos]

Yeah, I agree with the majority of comments here regarding long-term value, revenue streams, and the ability to retain users. Most likely not in it for the continuous long haul. Eager to play the quick game, and planning to reconsider down the line if things are looking more stable.

To be honest, this decision is almost totally emotionally driven, hence the very low commitment.

I grew up in Cupertino, and still visit my parents there weekly. I saw the current Apple World HQ (Infinite Loop) get built, literally, outside my elementary school windows while we were inside learning to type on donated Apple IIs. I've seen dozens of friends both fail miserably, and strike it ridiculously rich in various dot-com and tech ventures, and I've been working at Cisco since college. I have no problem admitting that I've drunk the Kool-Aid and I'm hugely biased towards the upside of web/tech. As I see it, Google, and now Facebook, have fundamentally changed the way people use the internet, and I believe that is worth something.

*fingers crossed* for tomorrow. Hopefully you'll be seeing a couple WTB ads in the near future.

[54ny77]

article says facebook will be creating 1,000 millionaires, pocketing $2-5mm on average.

check this out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/technology/a-start-up-is-gold-for-facebooks-new-millionaires.html?ref=business

velo tech cycles in palo alto--anyone ever been?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/05/18/business/Wealth/Wealth-articleInline.jpg
VeloTech cycles in Palo Alto, Calif., is one of the places where technology millionaires go to buy high-end bicycles. The store is owned by Mark Richard, right.

[pdmtong]

article says facebook will be creating 1,000 millionaires, pocketing $2-5mm on average.

check this out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/technology/a-start-up-is-gold-for-facebooks-new-millionaires.html?ref=business

velo tech cycles in palo alto--anyone ever been?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/05/18/business/Wealth/Wealth-articleInline.jpg
VeloTech cycles in Palo Alto, Calif., is one of the places where technology millionaires go to buy high-end bicycles. The store is owned by Mark Richard, right.


velotech is a great place. mark is a co-owner. it's tom's place too. go there to see a dogma 2 eps with lightweights or the most over the top ciavete respo on earth.

pinarello, colnago, parlee, peg

high end boutique. down to earth. AC gets more press, but velotech is just as bad-ass.

as for the OPs post...of course folks will gamble on FB but they dont yet have a good way to monitize their ad revenues. the bet is that with 900m users there must be a way to do something.

as for me, the impending IPO has jacked my home value beyond ridiculous.
so, I "like" FB

...means when I am dead my daughter will be just fine.

[54ny77]

i lived thru dot com bubble v1.0 up there when s&%! holes in east palo alto (pre-home depot) were going for $900k+.

it was laughable hearing people talk about it like it was gentrifying and the next hot place. as if opening a coffee and pastry shop would somehow discourage les homies from cruising past at 10mph givin' you the evil eye.

i lived on the other side of the 101 in the menlo flatland ghetto, and the occasional sound of gunfire over yonder eastside was, in fact, gunfire, and not a surround sound system blasting the matrix....

:rolleyes:



as for me, the impending IPO has jacked my home value beyond ridiculous.
so, I "like" FB

...means when I am dead my daughter will be just fine.

[Louis]

What is this "Facebook" thing, of which you speak?

A collection of pictures from your high-school or college days?

[pdmtong]

i lived thru dot com bubble v1.0 up there when s&%! holes in east palo alto (pre-home depot) were going for $900k+.

it was laughable hearing people talk about it like it was gentrifying and the next hot place. as if opening a coffee and pastry shop would somehow discourage les homies from cruising past at 10mph givin' you the evil eye.

i lived on the other side of the 101 in the menlo flatland ghetto, and the occasional sound of gunfire over yonder eastside was, in fact, gunfire, and not a surround sound system blasting the matrix....

:rolleyes:

all true...EPA despite its geogaraphy will never runup in value.

[oldguy00]

Sorry if this was covered, but when will common shares actually start trading to folks who weren't in on the IPO? Sometime today?

[fiamme red]

Facebook is already bigger than Amazon, Visa, and McDonald's:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/05/facebook-at-104-billion-is-already-bigger-than-amazon-visa-and-mcdonalds/257372/

Looks like a bubble to me.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/Screen%20Shot%202012-05-17%20at%2011.14.50%20PM.png

[MattTuck]

11am eastern.


Fasten your seat belts. I bet it goes to 80, then down to 40 by noon.

[Karin Kirk]

Sorry if this was covered, but when will common shares actually start trading to folks who weren't in on the IPO? Sometime today?

11:00 eastern time.
My limit order is placed!
Oops, didn't see that Matt already answered. Your predictions sound about right to me.

[oldguy00]

11:00 eastern time.
My limit order is placed!
Oops, didn't see that Matt already answered. Your predictions sound about right to me.

And what price did you bet your order on?? :)

[Climb01742]

back to trading at 11:05, maybe later. it's gonna be a wild ride.

[jr59]

11:00 eastern time.
My limit order is placed!
Oops, didn't see that Matt already answered. Your predictions sound about right to me.


I'm rooting for you VERY hard.

Free Kirks for the forum!!!:banana: :banana:

[Karin Kirk]

And what price did you bet your order on?? :)

$40. I doubt it will be filled.
15 minutes in and no info. The quotes are not updating. This is killing me! Must be a conspiracy.

[MattTuck]

Not sure which is more exciting, facebook or the giro finish today. http://sports-livez.com/channel/ch-7.php

[echelon_john]

Better to bet $60 and plan to hold X days until the restrictions expire; that's when the runup will happen if it does.

[MattTuck]

And we're almost touching $38, the pre-IPO price....

Here come the under-writers to prop up the stock!

[TMB]

And we're almost touching $38, the pre-IPO price....

Here come the under-writers to prop up the stock!

This is funny,

200 Million traded, high of the day at $43 and current bid is $40.

Methinks not what they expected.

[Karin Kirk]

My $40 order did not fill despite the fact that the price was $40. I raised it to $40.05 and it still did not fill. I cancelled the order and now we're down to $38, which is right where it opened. This is not the big runup that was expected!

Well at least I can go pee now. Been sitting here attentively for awhile. :)

[oldguy00]

My $40 order did not fill despite the fact that the price was $40. I raised it to $40.05 and it still did not fill. I cancelled the order and now we're down to $38, which is right where it opened. This is not the big runup that was expected!

Well at least I can go pee now. Been sitting here attentively for awhile. :)

Similar here. Placed an order for $42. Currently at $40 and mine didn't fill, so just cancelled.

[Karin Kirk]

Similar here. Placed an order for $42. Currently at $40 and mine didn't fill, so just cancelled.

Really?? At $2 below asking price your order didn't fill? That is strange. Anyone have insights about why this is so? Is it because of high volume?

Anyway, it looks like the Great Stock Runup of 2012 is a no-show. I bought some more sensible stocks today instead, taking advantage of the current slump.

Sorry to announce that the Kirk Frameworks free-for-all is cancelled. Booo.

[oldguy00]

When I logged back onto my account, there was a general notice posted about delays to facebook orders due to volume. I was happy. :)
I too just bought more of a stock I follow at a bargain price.

[Karin Kirk]

yup, from Schwab:

Facebook (FB) is now trading, although we are experiencing some issues with orders. These issues do not appear to be unique to Schwab. There are currently industry-wide delays in reporting trade executions. We apologize for the inconvenience. Thank you for your patience.

You think this is why the stock is not running up as predicted?

[MattTuck]

yup, from Schwab:


You think this is why the stock is not running up as predicted?

I think it's not running up because the market believes it is not worth more than its current price at this time.

;) Typical passive investor answer :P

[TMB]

yup, from Schwab:


You think this is why the stock is not running up as predicted?

It could also be that people have had the chance to think about it and realized that the BS spouted by the analysts is really just that ... BS.

[tuxbailey]

Good thing they delayed the opening and I am driving to the beach and don't have time to chase it.

It also gives a chance for the hot air to cool :)

[Karin Kirk]

OK, crazy. I cancelled my order and was just reading an article that the technical glitch resulted in order confirmations not being delivered. So I looked in my account and sure enough the order was executed and I do own FB shares after all. Yikes! That is a major screw up. Now I need to sell them which I will do promptly. I am not liking the feel of all of this.

[oldguy00]

Interesting.
I just checked mine, no FB shares. And the shares I bought about an hour ago, my account wouldn't have let me purchase had my facebook order gone through, as I wouldn't have had enough cash.

If you bought shares at $40, might not be such a bad deal. I wouldn't necessarily gamble 50k on it, but if you only bought a couple hundred shares, might not hurt to wait a few days? Who knows.

[tuxbailey]

OK, crazy. I cancelled my order and was just reading an article that the technical glitch resulted in order confirmations not being delivered. So I looked in my account and sure enough the order was executed and I do own FB shares after all. Yikes! That is a major screw up. Now I need to sell them which I will do promptly. I am not liking the feel of all of this.

Dislike.

That is pretty messed up. The great WS scam is going on :)

[Karin Kirk]

Yes, $40. 125 shares. Am sitting here deciding what to do.

[MadRocketSci]

yup, from Schwab:


You think this is why the stock is not running up as predicted?

Skynet is making trades for 2 cent profits...

[Louis]

Yes, $40. 125 shares. Am sitting here deciding what to do.

If you were willing to buy them at that price this AM you should be willing to hold them for a little while. Unless you're a day-trader, but given that number shares, I doubt it.

Buyer's remorse. Happens all the time.

Why did you buy in the first place? Based on the answer to that you can decide if you should hold them a bit longer. (I don't see why not. It's not like you'll need to money to pay the bills.)

[oldguy00]

Yes, $40. 125 shares. Am sitting here deciding what to do.

Worst case, secretly sell Dave's Lotus to cover your losses.... :)

Personally I'd keep them for a while, but that's just me. Despite some folks not liking facebook, fact is it is huge and not going to disappear any time soon.

[cat6]

Hayrick Island (68°42′S 67°32′WCoordinates: 68°42′S 67°32′W) is a small prominent rock mass, more than 150 metres (500 ft) high, between Lodge Rock and Twig Rock in the Terra Firma Islands, off the west coast of Graham Land, Antarctica.

[fuzzalow]

I would just sit tight. Your entry point was reasonably low and the size of the position should not keep you awake at nights. So trust yourself for why you decided to buy shares in the first place and let it play out a little.

PS: I saw the above, and I disagree with the statement "the $5k you've got invested is a gamble". No it isn't. It will not disappear to zero like betting a trifecta. It will move based on the reception the market gives FB's potential based on digesting future public info as to goals, objectives and direction.

[Karin Kirk]

I am liking this group advice. I should post my daily dilemmas more often. :)

Louis, I bought at $40 before the opening with the hope of a big runup and I intended to sell within hours. Granted with a $5000 purchase I was not poised to make a mint, but would have been happy to make something to add to our home improvement fund.

So it's not buyer's remorse, per se, it's more that it didn't pan out as I thought. Which is why I cancelled the order... or thought that I had.

Anyway, the stock is moving slowly and going nowhere in particular right now...

[Louis]

I hope all you Obama fans haven't been doing this through Ameritrade (or buying bikes from Higher Gear in Chicago)

JOE RICKETTS Founded brokerage firm Ameritrade in 1975 and led the company until 2008. Current business ventures include a historical film production company, a bison meat distributor and a digital local news service. He and his wife, Marlene, have been regular supporters of conservative causes since 1999. Their most recent contribution went to a group working against incumbents from both parties.

Founded and personally funded "Ending Spending Action Fund" - Super PAC that considered a proposal to run ads highlighting Mr. Obama’s relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

TODD RICKETTS Former manager and corporate secretary at Ameritrade. Owner of bike shops in the Chicago area.

Edit: Above info is from the NYT web site.

[Louis]

I am liking this group advice. I should post my daily dilemmas more often.

It's worth what you paid for it. ;)

[MadRocketSci]

think about if you want to keep it and why. Do you believe that FB will be able to monetize its super-large user base? How will they make money off of mobile devices? What's on the horizon? If you don't know, and aren't gambling, sell...otherwise figure out a price you would be willing to sell for and wait/hope/pray/get everyone to buy the stuff you've "liked" on FB.

Like i cryptically said before there are machines using fancy algorithms trading this thing back and forth for small profits waaay faster than you can blink. With all that selling the price is not going to skyrocket, despite the obvious amount of interest from small retail investors.

Good luck! *claps, shows palms*

[Viper]

Imagine investing in MySpace years ago. Is Facebook a fad or a trend? The here and now or the here forever? Watched 60 Minutes special (older show) about Facebook and it reminded me, it's a company of kids, run by a kid. Who Does Not Blink. People who do not blink or blink way too fast are touched by something. Dude freaks me out.

Anyway, the Twins who claim they invented Facebook were on the show. Zuckerburg offered his, "I feel badly that they feel badly" apology, which is no apology at-all.

I think people will tire of typing. Keyboards will become obsolete. Typing takes too much time and effort. The average person spends thirty minutes on Facebook when they log in, they'll want to accomplish more in less time. Video, images, sound will become posts. Words which already have little meaning, will no longer form sentences, let alone paragraphs. Reading books and magazines are so last century. Facebook will have to eliminate words. She was right in 1983:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5G3Fg25hg8

I do think Facebook will last longer than MySpace, but it too, will die someday. Modernism, technology is here to stay. And that's what'll defeat Facebook, the same thing which started it, technology.

[MadRocketSci]

machines trying to out-snipe each other at closing time...

[jimsantos]

I think people will tire of typing. Keyboards will become obsolete.

So true. Think SRI aka Siri.

As per my contacts at Apple, this is one of the major user experience layers that Jobs was set on eliminating.

In the same vein, check out Google's take on an Iron Man-esque pair of glasses that can ID and spew information directly to/from your field of view. Retinally-driven cursors anyone?

My prediction - in less than 50 years, we'll all happily be cyborgs. This would have been unquestionably science fiction even just 5-10 years ago, but that's where we're headed, whether you like it or not.

Technological determinism.

[biker72]

My $40 order did not fill despite the fact that the price was $40. I raised it to $40.05 and it still did not fill. I cancelled the order and now we're down to $38, which is right where it opened. This is not the big runup that was expected!

Well at least I can go pee now. Been sitting here attentively for awhile. :)

I bought in at $38. Placed a limit order before the market opened. I too expected a much higher runup.

[TMB]

And in fact the first sell recommendation has already been issued along with a 1 year target price of $30.

[Viper]

My prediction - in less than 50 years, we'll all happily be cyborgs. This would have been unquestionably science fiction even just 5-10 years ago, but that's where we're headed, whether you like it or not.

Technological determinism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41iUF2iAR4s

Clarke's Three Laws:

1.When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2.The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3.Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[verticaldoug]

The times change, human nature does not.

Read "Where are the Customers' Yachts? or A Good Hard Look at Wall Street" by Fred Schwed Jr.

First published in 1940.

Difference now is Wall Street is less a place than a state of mind and the figures are just larger. The inherent conflict of interest remains the same.

[CunegoFan]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanholiday/2012/05/17/why-i-lost-my-faith-in-facebook-advertising/

Matches up with the experience of me and others I know who tried to FB advertising. Low conversion rates make customer acquisition more costly than Google's adwords.

[oldpotatoe]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanholiday/2012/05/17/why-i-lost-my-faith-in-facebook-advertising/

Matches up with the experience of me and others I know who tried to FB advertising. Low conversion rates make customer acquisition more costly than Google's adwords.

Even tho Zuckerberg is now a billionaire, we'll see how he does when times are tough and he has to answer to shareholders and members of his board he didn't hand select. He is responsible for FB, what it is today, when all is rosey, we'll see how he does what things get tough. I think he would be smart to hire some people that have more experience in companies that did well, then poorly, then well again. Not just some who have been outta college less than a decade.

[cat6]

Hayrick Island (68°42′S 67°32′WCoordinates: 68°42′S 67°32′W) is a small prominent rock mass, more than 150 metres (500 ft) high, between Lodge Rock and Twig Rock in the Terra Firma Islands, off the west coast of Graham Land, Antarctica.

[Viper]

People believed in Steve Jobs.
People don't believe in Mark Zuckerberg.

http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/mark-zuckerberg-has-a-posse.jpeg

:beer:

[cnighbor1]

buy in lots of 100's thanplace sell order at 20% for 1st lot 25% for other lots
that way if it drops big time you don't lose more than 205 to 25%
Most all new stock do drop at some point below opening price So wait it out a bit

[professerr]

From today's NY Times:

"Indications are that Facebook was bought primarily by individual investors, not institutions."
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/business/in-facebook-stock-rush-fanfare-vs-realities.html?_r=1&hp

Very, very unusual for an IPO for the retail side to be the primary buyers. Very, very unusual for an IPO to have such heavy, heavy insider selling in the offering.

[93legendti]

No need to type to use FB. Vokul app works great.

[Germany_chris]

A stock that was kept at 38 by the issuing bank buying large blocks throughout the day. A $15 billion dollar class action lawsuit filed on Friday in California and Zynga pogo'd the entire trading day…


I'll continue to stay far away from Facebook.

[zap]

Based on the hype, action certainly not what I expected.

[Viper]

Based on the hype, action certainly not what I expected.

Down 14% to start the morning:

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=4b1a27fe-7f75-4512-ae71-ee785200d680

People believed in Steve Jobs.
People don't believe in Mark Zuckerburg.

Steve Jobs/Apple = Madonna.
Zuckerburg/Facebook = Britney Spears on heroin at tattoo parlor en route to a new haircut.

[biker72]

Down 14% to start the morning:

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=4b1a27fe-7f75-4512-ae71-ee785200d680

People believed in Steve Jobs.
People don't believe in Mark Zuckerburg.

Steve Jobs/Apple = Madonna.
Zuckerburg/Facebook = Britney Spears on heroin at tattoo parlor en route to a new haircut.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!! I'm broke.....:)
Not the first bad investment I've ever made and probably not the last. I really need to stick with index mutual funds.

Even the "experts" had this stock doubling the first day.

[echelon_john]

The real experts made their money by investing in this years ago and taking it public. The cheerleaders are the ones who were wrong.


NOOOOOOOO!!!!! I'm broke.....:)
Not the first bad investment I've ever made and probably not the last. I really need to stick with index mutual funds.

Even the "experts" had this stock doubling the first day.

[MadRocketSci]

how many "experts" made the right call in the beginning of 2008?

the world has changed since GOOG went public. they need to find the next way to game retail investors.

[Chance]

Something seems fundamentally wrong if viewed long-term when a company exists based on a one-sided contract where users essentially don’t have real rights “and” also don’t have a choice to use a competitor in order to keep them somewhat honest. It’s the take-it-or-leave-it mentality that concerns me most for the long haul. When they push participants hard in order to monetize we’ll see if significant issues come to the surface.

Not very comfortable with companies that profit indirectly by extracting profits from reluctant participants. It’d be simpler if they charged a monthly fee and we got to keep ad-free content, privacy, and personal data. At least then we’d know what it’s actually worth. If FB has value why shouldn’t we pay directly for its use? Probably because we wouldn't in such large numbers.

[Germany_chris]

Something seems fundamentally wrong if viewed long-term when a company exists based on a one-sided contract where users essentially don’t have real rights “and” also don’t have a choice to use a competitor in order to keep them somewhat honest. It’s the take-it-or-leave-it mentality that concerns me most for the long haul. When they push participants hard in order to monetize we’ll see if significant issues come to the surface.

Not very comfortable with companies that profit indirectly by extracting profits from reluctant participants. It’d be simpler if they charged a monthly fee and we got to keep ad-free content, privacy, and personal data. At least then we’d know what it’s actually worth. If FB has value why shouldn’t we pay directly for its use? Probably because we wouldn't in such large numbers.

I ask this all the time with "free" things.

I'd just rather pay for a service provided, not be the service provided.

[MattTuck]

I ask this all the time with "free" things.

I'd just rather pay for a service provided, not be the service provided.

Strava does a nice job creating a compelling service that uses a combination of user generated content and social networks. I am happy to pay $60/yr. I wouldn't pay $60/yr for facebook though, I never use it.

[Germany_chris]

Strava does a nice job creating a compelling service that uses a combination of user generated content and social networks. I am happy to pay $60/yr. I wouldn't pay $60/yr for facebook though, I never use it.

I'd pay $60 a year for Facebook if my family did.

[ClutchCargo]

Strava does a nice job creating a compelling service that uses a combination of user generated content and social networks. I am happy to pay $60/yr. I wouldn't pay $60/yr for facebook though, I never use it.

Really? What exactly do you get in return for your $60?
I didn't see much to it, though I use the free site.

[Jaq]

So true. Think SRI aka Siri.

As per my contacts at Apple, this is one of the major user experience layers that Jobs was set on eliminating.

In the same vein, check out Google's take on an Iron Man-esque pair of glasses that can ID and spew information directly to/from your field of view. Retinally-driven cursors anyone?

My prediction - in less than 50 years, we'll all happily be cyborgs. This would have been unquestionably science fiction even just 5-10 years ago, but that's where we're headed, whether you like it or not.

Technological determinism.

Transhumanism is the term, I think. It's been sci-fi for a hundred plus years, obviously, but the reality has been creeping along for some time now. I remember being a kid back in the '80s and reading an article about some scientists who'd hooked up a video camera to a blind man's optic nerve, allowing him to see vague shapes and colors (he'd been blind since birth, as I recall).

That awful (to me) movie a few years back - AI - got one thing right; in the end, the kid is dug from the ice by vaguely humanoid, almost ghostly beings. I remember thinking "yeah, that's mankind in another 500 years or so." I think whatever eventually supplants us will call itself human, but will be at least as far above us as we are above little Lucy.

[Germany_chris]

Really? What exactly do you get in return for your $60?
I didn't see much to it, though I use the free site.

...

Wrong site..

[Viper]

The Powerpoint Presentation. Struck me last night how a new generation of adults now speaks in, "Powerpoint". Go to a party in Cambridge, Boston and listen. You'll think at times you're in attendance of some TEDx event; camera, lights, microphone, your Powerpoint slides over your shoulder and, "Action."

So many people want a 'cause', they want to create an 'effect'. They want to have influence. They want to be like that guy on tv or the guy on their computer. Did Steve Jobs invent Powerpoint presentations? No. Did he make them famous? Yes; to sit and watch Jobs present his new product was to be in the arena of greatness. He made a wireless mouse controller into a Jedi Knight's lightsaber. Click. Next slide. Look at us, look at me. Oh, and for just $1995.00, this widget on the screen, that can change your life and give you power, can be yours.

Society in many ways has never been more lost. Debt, drug addiction, mental depression, financial recession squinting upon financial depression, terrorism and gas price-ism. The world didn't end on 9/11/01, nor did it begin again the day we killed Bin Laden. Y2K didn't really happen, but something much worse did nearly two years later; we're over 1/10th into this new century and is fear of some Mayan calender and $5.00/gallon gas the best we can dwell on? Some dude or dudette who doesn't shower, shave, wash clothes, drinks beer nightly has a Facebook page and they are gonna change the world. Cause they recycle their paper, plastic, bottles and cans. And their 879 'friends' tell them daily how great they are.

No wonder Vampire, Zombie, Apocalyptic movies and video games are so popular. Post 9/11, Battlestar Galactica became a New Religion and it was more than just a show as it asked the thinkers who tuned-in every Friday night, "Would you like to get some Windex, paper towel, clean your brain and think for an hour?" Ironic the show was on after the forty-hour rat race. It was detox. Rehab. Renewal.

Television, once known as the, "boob tube" or, "chewing gum for the mind" has been outdone. We do it in 4G speed now. Why date, marry or stay faithful when your ex just 'liked' your Facebook family photo and told you how great your are, via instant message, which becomes a text message, phone call and then sex. Nowadays, ex's never really go away or move on, they become Facebook pals and fun is just a click away. Today, we're closer than ever. We type, click, swipe, swab and send. Cavemen and woman might've communicated better, but we have wifi and soy lattes in our trendy cafe bistros.

The ninth movie regarding the end of the world, due to a faux Mayan calendar is on cable, the tv with 879 channels. Yet many believed their leader at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Northwest, would change this world. His presentations, audio and visual, without the Powerpoint slides, were very effective. Change. Hope. Love. And did the world change? Define, "change". Define, "world". And no offense to the current renter at Pennsylvania Avenue, but 1600 seems to have as much connection to the real people of America, than 1340 North State Parkway, Chicago.

The Powerpoint Presentation. Struck me last night how most people's Facebook Pages have become their Personal Powerpoint Presentation. Where is Christopher Hitchens when he is needed most? He'd tell Zuckerburg where to go and how to get there. Miss you, Hitch.

[oldguy00]

Really? What exactly do you get in return for your $60?
I didn't see much to it, though I use the free site.

Did you pay for a television? What about anything else that isn't essential but that you enjoy using?
People like facebook. They enjoy using it. Folks will pay for something they enjoy.

[Viper]

Did you pay for a television? What about anything else that isn't essential but that you enjoy using?
People like facebook. They enjoy using it. Folks will pay for something they enjoy.

I would Forecast a 50% or more reduction of Facebook accounts if a monthly fee was enacted. Netflix. Their CEO Reed Hastings admits they shot their feet off. When something is cheap or free, a small increase becomes more of a point, than a fee. People revolt with their wallets. People would not pay money for Facebook, just as they wouldn't for MySpace.

Facebook needs subscribers, accounts, heads, hands, numbers just as much as the Facebook addicts need a log-in and password. NetZero came out in 1998 with the promise of free internet. They've created a new technology where people need to buy a dongle, some hardware. People will buy a new Mac or Windows Laptop, but not pay to load Facebook as an icon, it's just not that iconic. I'll buy new Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps and Michelin Latex Tubes, just not the air.

Bad ideas:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/netflix-ceo-reed-hastings-company-sincere-regret-customers/story?id=14608865

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/28511/facebook-to-charge/

http://voices.yahoo.com/do-facebook-fee-rumors-contain-kernel-truth-5333835.html?cat=15

http://www.deadline.com/2011/09/netflix-ceo-reed-hastings-apology-fails-to-stop-stock-slide/

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/the_business_of_online_vi/2011/07/netflixs-raises-rates-business-model-has-serious-challenges-ahead.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ycharts/2012/05/02/is-netflix-about-to-be-a-has-been-suddenly-problems-seem-overwhelming/

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/10/18/bofas-5-debit-card-fee-is-a-tax-on-the-disloyal/

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/30/tech/social-media/facebook-charge-fee-ostrow/index.html

[Chance]

I'll buy new Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps and Michelin Latex Tubes, just not the air.


Yeah, but some do. It's called nitrogen. We all spend money differently. Some would pay for FB directly while others won't. All will pay for it directly or indirectly one way or another.

[Chance]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanholiday/2012/05/17/why-i-lost-my-faith-in-facebook-advertising/

Matches up with the experience of me and others I know who tried to FB advertising. Low conversion rates make customer acquisition more costly than Google's adwords.

Thanks, very informative. A similar take on why GM pulled out of paid advertising.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-22/why-gm-and-others-fail-with-facebook-ads#p1

[TMB]

Earnings estimates cut 20% during the IPO roadshow ...

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/facebook-bankers-secretly-cut-facebook-revenue-estimates-middle-133648905.html

This issue has bad written all over it.

[ClutchCargo]

Did you pay for a television? What about anything else that isn't essential but that you enjoy using?
People like facebook. They enjoy using it. Folks will pay for something they enjoy.

Actually, this was a little thread drift . . . wasn't FB related. I was responding to the poster who mentioned paying for the Strava Premium service. In any event, I found my answer. This from Brendan at CC:

What Makes Strava Not So Awesome

1) Paying for the Premium version gets you what? Strava is a free service unless you want its full functionality. By paying $59 per year you get three features:

First is age and gender specific Leaderboards. If you're tired of seeing your PR's getting clobbered by youngsters who get to train 25 hours per week, you can narrow down to your demographic. Second is a type of gamification called "Suffer Score", what appears to be an analogue to kilojoules on a powermeter. That is, it represents in one number just how hard and long you rode. Finally, if you ride with a powermeter you get power file analysis.

While I pay for Strava, I don't use any of the Premium features. I'm rooting for the long-term economic viability of Strava as a company. Its viability hinges on encouraging non-paying users to upgrade to Premium. As it stands now, however, the case for Premium isn't adequately compelling. Strava's core functionality comes for free. And the free version has no ads, so (unlike weather.com or mapmyride.com) upgrading to Premium doesn't suppress anything annoying.

[MattTuck]

Really? What exactly do you get in return for your $60?
I didn't see much to it, though I use the free site.

Well, for starters, I get to see how I stack up to other 200+ pound riders on the hills. Which is not as demoralizing as the full leaderboard.

But beyond that, I am supporting a company that is actually doing some innovative and creative work around making riding social. I do 95% of my riding alone. But I still appreciate the segment tracking and ability to keep track of my performance over time.

Do I need to pay for it? No. I could get along just fine using the free features. But I want to reward creative efforts. Just like I've funded some projects on kickstarter.

On top of that, the co-founders came out of Dartmouth College. Where I did my grad school and currently work. So, I feel like I'm supporting the home town team.

And finally, at $59/year, we're talking like 16 cents per day. Since I don't drink coffee, I figure that I could use what most people spend on coffee on my strava membership, and still come out pretty far ahead. In other words, it's pennies a day, I don't worry about justifying that when it is a product I enjoy, use frequently and want to see succeed.

[ClutchCargo]

Well, for starters, I get to see how I stack up to other 200+ pound riders on the hills. Which is not as demoralizing as the full leaderboard.

But beyond that, I am supporting a company that is actually doing some innovative and creative work around making riding social. I do 95% of my riding alone. But I still appreciate the segment tracking and ability to keep track of my performance over time.

Do I need to pay for it? No. I could get along just fine using the free features. But I want to reward creative efforts. Just like I've funded some projects on kickstarter.

On top of that, the co-founders came out of Dartmouth College. Where I did my grad school and currently work. So, I feel like I'm supporting the home town team.

And finally, at $59/year, we're talking like 16 cents per day. Since I don't drink coffee, I figure that I could use what most people spend on coffee on my strava membership, and still come out pretty far ahead. In other words, it's pennies a day, I don't worry about justifying that when it is a product I enjoy, use frequently and want to see succeed.

that's cool.
(unfortunately, I am a beanhead, so . . . guess I should give up beer)

[Jaq]

I would Forecast a 50% or more reduction of Facebook accounts if a monthly fee was enacted. Netflix. Their CEO Reed Hastings admits they shot their feet off. When something is cheap or free, a small increase becomes more of a point, than a fee. People revolt with their wallets. People would not pay money for Facebook, just as they wouldn't for MySpace.

To be fair, though, Netflix didn't up their price by a small increase; they doubled their bottom-rung membership cost, shortly after which they lost their Stars content and their HBO content. Then they tried to replace that missing content with some original programming that's just too esoteric to fly. So everyone's paying a lot more for a lot less, and some of that less is less.

[Viper]

To be fair, though, Netflix didn't up their price by a small increase; they doubled their bottom-rung membership cost, shortly after which they lost their Stars content and their HBO content. Then they tried to replace that missing content with some original programming that's just too esoteric to fly. So everyone's paying a lot more for a lot less, and some of that less is less.

I am Netflix-ignorant. From the oldschool, I want my remote control! I don't watch a whole lot of tv, but Golf Channel, Discovery, Nat Geo, History, Science and once in a while, CNN (so I can simply make sure the world is still rotating). I cannot "stream" DISCOVERY CHANNEL'S SHARK WEEK; that show needs to be delivered to me via a fat cable from the road in HIGH DEF. I need my sharks 24/7 in HIGH DEF. I think HBO became a smutty porno channel at night, yes? As a teen it was all about Cinemax, aka Skinemax. I caught a glimpse of HBO at a buddy's house and felt uncomfortable watching 'Spartacus - Blood and Sand' with his girfriend. I felt dirty.

I would not pay $19.99 a year for Facebook. I throw money into things that really matter, like Campagnolo parts. :banana:

>---^///.>
>---^///.>

SHARK WEEK

>___^///.>

SHARK WEEK

SHARK WEEK

>___^///.>

SHARK WEEK

[Germany_chris]

I am Netflix-ignorant. From the oldschool, I want my remote control! I don't watch a whole lot of tv, but Golf Channel, Discovery, Nat Geo, History, Science and once in a while, CNN (so I can simply make sure the world is still rotating). I cannot "stream" DISCOVERY CHANNEL'S SHARK WEEK; that show needs to be delivered to me via a fat cable from the road in HIGH DEF. I need my sharks 24/7 in HIGH DEF. I think HBO became a smutty porno channel at night, yes? As a teen it was all about Cinemax, aka Skinemax. I caught a glimpse of HBO at a buddy's house and felt uncomfortable watching 'Spartacus - Blood and Sand' with his girfriend. I felt dirty.

I would not pay $19.99 a year for Facebook. I throw money into things that really matter, like Campagnolo parts. :banana:

Facebook really matters to me at least. I pay Hulu, Amazon, and Netflix because I don't own a TV but have some pretty sexy computers.

It's about perspective.

[Viper]

Facebook really matters to me at least. I pay Hulu, Amazon, and Netflix because I don't own a TV but have some pretty sexy computers.

It's about perspective.

Bottom line. Do you get Shark Week in Germany?

>---^///.>

SHARK WEEK

[Germany_chris]

Bottom line. Do you get Shark Week in Germany?

>---^///.>

SHARK WEEK

It's beamed right into my imagination, in 3d even :banana:

[verticaldoug]

1

[Jaq]

Ironically enough, you'd probably like Netflix - they stream sharkweek, lots of Nat. Geo, and it all comes through in high def.

My biggest problem with Netflix is that, after you've had it for a few months, it's tedious; they just don't seem to rotate enough new movies (and older movies) into the streaming side of things. So it feels like there's never anything new to watch but once every two-three months.

I am Netflix-ignorant. From the oldschool, I want my remote control! I don't watch a whole lot of tv, but Golf Channel, Discovery, Nat Geo, History, Science and once in a while, CNN (so I can simply make sure the world is still rotating). I cannot "stream" DISCOVERY CHANNEL'S SHARK WEEK; that show needs to be delivered to me via a fat cable from the road in HIGH DEF. I need my sharks 24/7 in HIGH DEF. I think HBO became a smutty porno channel at night, yes? As a teen it was all about Cinemax, aka Skinemax. I caught a glimpse of HBO at a buddy's house and felt uncomfortable watching 'Spartacus - Blood and Sand' with his girfriend. I felt dirty.

I would not pay $19.99 a year for Facebook. I throw money into things that really matter, like Campagnolo parts. :banana:

>---^///.>
>---^///.>

SHARK WEEK

>___^///.>

SHARK WEEK

SHARK WEEK

>___^///.>

SHARK WEEK

[Germany_chris]

Ironically enough, you'd probably like Netflix - they stream sharkweek, lots of Nat. Geo, and it all comes through in high def.

My biggest problem with Netflix is that, after you've had it for a few months, it's tedious; they just don't seem to rotate enough new movies (and older movies) into the streaming side of things. So it feels like there's never anything new to watch but once every two-three months.

and they don't support Linux..pppffttt Silverlight

[thwart]

i throw money into things that really matter, like campagnolo parts. :banana:


+100

[Louis]

Earnings estimates cut 20% during the IPO roadshow ...

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/facebook-bankers-secretly-cut-facebook-revenue-estimates-middle-133648905.html

This issue has bad written all over it.

More on the issue mentioned above:

Exclusive: Massachusetts Subpoenas Morgan Stanley for Facebook
By REUTERS

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Massachusetts Secretary of Commonwealth William Galvin has issued a subpoena to Morgan Stanley over an analyst's discussions with investors on Facebook

"The Securities Division has put out a subpoena to Morgan Stanley in connection with the analyst's discussion with certain institutional investors about the revenue prospects for Facebook," a spokesman for Galvin's office said on Tuesday.

"Morgan Stanley followed the same procedures for the Facebook offering that it follows for all IPOs. These procedures are in compliance with all applicable regulations," a Morgan Stanley spokesman wrote in an e-mailed statement.

The analyst's revisions came after Facebook revised its prospectus on May 9, which the firm forwarded to all of its retail and institutional clients, according to the statement.

The much-anticipated social media site's initial public offering has been steeped in controversy since it started trading on Friday. Much of the controversy stemmed from a Nasdaq glitch that caused the stock to delay trading by 30 minutes.

As of Monday afternoon, some customers of Fidelity Investments, Morgan Stanley and Charles Schwab were still waiting to see if their trades for Facebook shares were completed on Friday.

Then Reuters reported late Monday that the consumer Internet analyst at lead underwriter Morgan Stanley cut his revenue forecasts for Facebook in the days before the offering, information that may not have reached many investors before the stock was listed.

On Tuesday, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority called for a review of the Facebook IPO call for a review.

By Tuesday's close, shares were down more than 18 percent, to end at $31.

(Reporting By Jessica Toonkel; Editing by Leslie Gevirtz and M.D. Golan)

[54ny77]

What does Facebook care, they now have a whole lotta OPM and are laughing at everyone. Early investors who cashed out at IPO can say they still got out and made dozens if not hundreds of times their money.

Who lost? Oh that's right, those who bought in at IPO....

Yeah I guess the b-d's who had to support the early trades did too...woops, so much for the P&L on that 1% fee. More L, no P. :banana:

[slidey]

Well, so the IPO's gone to hell but it seems like there might be a probe by the Feds. While it sounds official, I have no clue what the possible outcomes of such a probe might be? Does anyone have an idea?

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_20683687/feds-probe-facebook-ipo-stock-continues-fall

Personally, I get the "feeling" that most of the negative vibe coming from various quarters have jealous undertones. I have no way of knowing how to price an IPO but can certainly believe that Morgan Stanley got greedy in the process. However I am certain that it's a matter of time before facebook ushers in an era of socially inclined technological innovation.

[Ken Robb]

sometimes people who are too ignorant or too lazy to do the research to know what they are buying pay too much---for stocks, real estate, cars, bikes, etc.

[54ny77]

Woopsie daisy....

http://www.businessinsider.com/exclusive-heres-the-inside-story-of-what-happened-on-the-facebook-ipo-2012-5

Ignoring Blodget's personal commentary on the situation (as if he has any credibility!), the facts as he presented them, if true, well...ain't that a peach.

[TMB]

Well, so the IPO's gone to hell but it seems like there might be a probe by the Feds. While it sounds official, I have no clue what the possible outcomes of such a probe might be? Does anyone have an idea?

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_20683687/feds-probe-facebook-ipo-stock-continues-fall

Personally, I get the "feeling" that most of the negative vibe coming from various quarters have jealous undertones. I have no way of knowing how to price an IPO but can certainly believe that Morgan Stanley got greedy in the process. However I am certain that it's a matter of time before facebook ushers in an era of socially inclined technological innovation.

Nothing to do with pricing the IPO. Everything to do with selective dissemination of information, and what is basically trading on insider information. Really a no-no. Especially on an IPO as high profile as this, so the prospectus ends up being wrong, oooops.



Edit: should have kept reading, I see you found it.

[slidey]

On a lighter note, I came across this headline somewhere yesterday: "Just married for a weekend and already a few billion short" :p

[Louis]

"Just married for a weekend and already a few billion short" :p

I bet that's one heck of an interesting pre-nup agreement.

[Jaq]

I bet that's one heck of an interesting pre-nup agreement.

"Section 4. If we get divorced, but she remains silent about any and all aspects of our lives together, she'll get 1,000,000.00 a month. Should she, however, say anything to anyone, she gets nothing."

"But what if Facebook mines the data from her page and sells it to a third-party without her consent?"

"We would never do that."

[FlashUNC]

To be fair, though, Netflix didn't up their price by a small increase; they doubled their bottom-rung membership cost, shortly after which they lost their Stars content and their HBO content. Then they tried to replace that missing content with some original programming that's just too esoteric to fly. So everyone's paying a lot more for a lot less, and some of that less is less.

Even then, after their failed Qwickster split of their digital and DVD mail services -- and all the public complaints that generated -- they noted only about a 3 percent dip in subscribers that quarter.

Yeah, people will complain about, but they'll stay hooked into the service...

[Jaq]

Even then, after their failed Qwickster split of their digital and DVD mail services -- and all the public complaints that generated -- they noted only about a 3 percent dip in subscribers that quarter.

Yeah, people will complain about, but they'll stay hooked into the service...

Yeah, they already seem to have recovered; ~33% of their new members are actually returning customers who left during the whole Qwickster/Stars debacle.

As for being hooked, I think it's mostly because it requires an effort to cut the cord, as it were. The single greatest money-making scam of all time has to be the "we'll just debit your credit card once a month" combined with the "let's make it ever-so-slightly time-consuming and difficult to cancel." Netflix is actually pretty easy, but some things are (or were) notorious. AOL was one. Some on-line games make it tedious. Even Netflix seems to be hoping that they can provide just enough new stuff that you'll say "eh, okay. I'll watch this stuff and cancel next month."

[MadRocketSci]

be fearful when others are greedy, greedy when others are fearful...trite but still true!

[tuxbailey]

I am surprised (or should not be) this is more than 11 pages :)

Looks like the saga will continue and more stories to come. My prediction, the IBs will just get a slap on the wrist and the retail investor will get a $5 check from the class action lawsuit.

[54ny77]

somewhere out there is a group of smart kids in a college dorm room jacked up on soda, pizza and cheetos and programming away for the next big thing that will change the shape of the world we live in.

gotta love this country.

great interview on charlie rose last night of the google employee in egypt who used facebook to bring about democratic revolution. who'd have thunk?

I am surprised (or should not be) this is more than 11 pages :)

Looks like the saga will continue and more stories to come. My prediction, the IBs will just get a slap on the wrist and the retail investor will get a $5 check from the class action lawsuit.

[azrider]

the retail investor will get a $5 check from the class action lawsuit.

.......and the attorneys will become millionaires

[norcalbiker]

somewhere out there is a group of smart kids in a college dorm room jacked up on soda, pizza and cheetos and programming away for the next big thing that will change the shape of the world we live in.

gotta love this country.

great interview on charlie rose last night of the google employee in egypt who used facebook to bring about democratic revolution. who'd have thunk?

That's exactly what my son and his roommates doing in CAL POLY (computer engineering major) right now. Jacking up on soda, pizza and cheetos. Don't know about them being smart and changing the world though.

Honestly, I did ask him and his fellow computer engineering major about this FB going public awhile back. Majority of them said that it's kind of a joke. They will be other social network out there in the future. They also ask me if I heard of "MYSPACE". It died.

[54ny77]

CP SLO?

If so, bravo to them.

Oh what I'd do for a proper tri-tip sandwich here in the northeast....

That's exactly what my son and his roommates doing in CAL POLY (computer engineering major) right now. Jacking up on soda, pizza and cheetos. Don't know about them being smart and changing the world though.

Honestly, I did ask him and his fellow computer engineering major about this FB going public awhile back. Majority of them said that it's kind of a joke. They will be other social network out there in the future. They also ask me if I heard of "MYSPACE". It died.

[Viper]

That's exactly what my son and his roommates doing in CAL POLY (computer engineering major) right now. Jacking up on soda, pizza and cheetos. Don't know about them being smart and changing the world though.

Crunchy or puffy cheetos? The puffy ones are useless to me.

Signed,

Former dude who loved his Sunkist, pizza and Crunchy Cheetos while playing Zelda back in the day. Don't tell me about these kids today changing the world! We invented Zelda v1.0 and Dungeons and Dragons started with us! F*CK Nixon! To H*LL with OPEC and the Iranian hostages...we sang, "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Around the Old Oak Tree" to end the hostage crisis! We started the TANG/Junkfood/Computer Generation!!!

PS: Star Trek > Star Wars

PPS: Ask the kids today about Floppy Disks. That's right. You tell them we were the ones who learned that if you took mom's clippers and snipped a piece out of the floppy disk, you got more size.

http://toastytech.com/good/floppy8.jpg

:beer:

[norcalbiker]

cp slo?

If so, bravo to them.

Oh what i'd do for a proper tri-tip sandwich here in the northeast....

slo!!!

[norcalbiker]

Crunchy or puffy cheetos? The puffy ones are useless to me.

Signed,

Former dude who loved his Sunkist, pizza and Crunchy Cheetos while playing Zelda back in the day. Don't tell me about these kids today changing the world! We invented Zelda v1.0 and Dungeons and Dragons started with us! F*CK Nixon! To H*LL with OPEC and the Iranian hostages...we sang, "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Around the Old Oak Tree" to end the hostage crisis! We started the TANG/Junkfood/Computer Generation!!!

PS: Star Trek > Star Wars

PPS: Ask the kids today about Floppy Disks. That's right. You tell them we were the ones who learned that if you took mom's clippers and snipped a piece out of the floppy disk, you got more size.

http://toastytech.com/good/floppy8.jpg

:beer:

That's funny. I was cleaning the garage with him and he found a box full of 8 track cassettes and ask me "WHAT THE HECK ARE THESE"? :crap:

[Viper]

That's funny. I was cleaning the garage with him and he found a box full of 8 track cassettes and ask me "WHAT THE HECK ARE THESE"? :crap:

Dad, dude, seriously, what are these things? Seriously, dad.

:beer:

PS: America needs more blue collar, manufacturing, assembly line, customer service, field support, middle class jobs along with the acknowledgement that almost top to bottom, our educational system, our teachers (not all) suck. I mean really suck. And throwing more money into an education system which is broken and empty is like putting coal back in the mines of Newcastle. We spend the most on our education and we gain the least. Facebook and Steve Jobs aren't putting jobs back into America, or if so, very few. Software is great, but I need to see jobs created from it.

I am watching this take place with squinty eyes:

http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/news/story.jhtml?id=367800015

Because I see so many NFP's as complete scams and total shams.

I want real jobs for real Americans to pay real bills and allow them to have fun and leisure time, too.

[ultraman6970]

I have some cassette tapes and my little ones were asking what are those... :) The same with VhS tapes.

Kid's now a days know nothing :)

[54ny77]

Interesting observation. Question: does it matter?

I went into a candy store the other day and they converted rows and rows of library dewey decimal card furniture (drawers) as a merchandising display, filling the drawers with different types of packaged candy and using the slot in front for the label.

Some kids might say, "Dewey what?"

I could easily see a benefit to be young and unburdened by what was done previously, and develop something entirely new.

The idea alone for Facebook--where on earth did that come from? What precedent was used? I guess maybe one could say it's a USENET-like group on steroids (with GUI interface, photos, videos, etc.), but I wonder if any of those guys even gave thought to that, or for that matter knew what USENET is (or rather, was).


I have some cassette tapes and my little ones were asking what are those... :) The same with VhS tapes.

Kid's now a days know nothing :)

[Viper]

The idea alone for Facebook--where on earth did that come from? What precedent was used? I guess maybe one could say it's a USENET-like group on steroids (with GUI interface, photos, videos, etc.), but I wonder if any of those guys even gave thought to that, or for that matter knew what USENET is (or rather, was).

Al Gore is a Cylon sent from the future. His goal is to learn how to kiss women. He did not succeed. He also found interest in politics and having professional "massages" while on Earth, but his main purpose was to create the internet. :)

:beer:

[ultraman6970]

Many people have no idea what Usenet is, or even what compuserve was back in the day. Personally i dont like the idea of having to put all my data (even if fake) in a web site just because everybody has a darn account on that. The same with darn tweeter... I really dont care if anybody is bored at his job at 10am or if a rap star went to take a dump after eating crab cakes.

I even got my fb account closed after like 2 years and they were asking me for my ID copies and stuff to re instead the account... f .. them... Probably they figure it out all the data was fake when they saw a chinese guy called Fuk Yu with 01 666 666 66 as phone number :D

[54ny77]

ahh, good ol' usenet.

consider that rec.bicycles newsgroup is the granddaddy of the paceline forum...;)

imagine trying to describe moots weld beats in ascii text!

Many people have no idea what Usenet is, or even what compuserve was back in the day. Personally i dont like the idea of having to put all my data (even if fake) in a web site just because everybody has a darn account on that. The same with darn tweeter... I really dont care if anybody is bored at his job at 10am or if a rap star went to take a dump after eating crab cakes.

I even got my fb account closed after like 2 years and they were asking me for my ID copies and stuff to re instead the account... f .. them... Probably they figure it out all the data was fake when they saw a chinese guy called Fuk Yu with 01 666 666 66 as phone number :D

[norcalbiker]

i want real jobs for real americans to pay real bills and allow them to have fun and leisure time, too.


Amen!!! :beer:

[norcalbiker]

Al Gore is a Cylon sent from the future. His goal is to learn how to kiss women. He did not succeed. He also found interest in politics and having professional "massages" while on Earth, but his main purpose was to create the internet. :)

:beer:

So it is true that he invented internet. :confused:

[Viper]

Amen!!! :beer:

I pay my taxes. I won't paint the house pink, but I'll paint a girl's bedroom or bike pink. Put some cheesy pink flamingos in the yard and watch Miami Vice on my Smartphone. Need a woman who can stop a clock.

Time flies, names change, but the song remains the same:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npdXm_IOyaQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53OV4E9Ol3w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyoN78T6Lb8

:beer:

[MadRocketSci]

So it is true that he invented internet. :confused:

I know its a huge joke about his claims on the internet, but to be fair, back in 1991 he and Bill were going on and on in campaign speeches about the "information superhighway," probably something regarding increased funding, tax breaks, who knows, but I would guess 0.5% of the people in the crowd (and I'm guessing not GHWB) had any idea what the hell they were talking about. Most of us were just logging into university computers and using elm/pine to email other college students. Usenet was for dorks, like Dikumud...

remember the "finger" command? :)

[Jaq]

I know its a huge joke about his claims on the internet, but to be fair, back in 1991 he and Bill were going on and on in campaign speeches about the "information superhighway," probably something regarding increased funding, tax breaks, who knows, but I would guess 0.5% of the people in the crowd (and I'm guessing not GHWB) had any idea what the hell they were talking about. Most of us were just logging into university computers and using elm/pine to email other college students. Usenet was for dorks, like Dikumud...

remember the "finger" command? :)

Bah. Whipping a Cobol punchcard at another guy's head to get his attention was our email. But I remember having the honor of being the first guy in one of my classes to tell my professor that my Apple II "crashed and ate my homework." And it was actually true.

He gave me points for originality and let me off the hook.

[tuxbailey]

I know its a huge joke about his claims on the internet, but to be fair, back in 1991 he and Bill were going on and on in campaign speeches about the "information superhighway," probably something regarding increased funding, tax breaks, who knows, but I would guess 0.5% of the people in the crowd (and I'm guessing not GHWB) had any idea what the hell they were talking about. Most of us were just logging into university computers and using elm/pine to email other college students. Usenet was for dorks, like Dikumud...

remember the "finger" command? :)

Ah the finger command ... just so can see others' .plan updates :)

[rice rocket]

I still finger people if they're at a university domain. Helluva lot easier than finding them on Google and sifting through search results.

[Ti Designs]

There is money to be made on FB, but the hype of the IPO isn't the time for that. The normal metrics are science fiction at best, the true value of the company is in the data collected and how it can be used. The real trick is to buy in on the value of their data (such as the value of knowing the physical location of millions of users posting from mobile devices) and get out before the backlash. I honestly don't see marketshare being a fast moving number...

Shall we make this like the forum weight loss challenge? Post your gains or (losses)??

[Viper]

I've said for years now that typing will become obsolete. Words no more. Rather than a Facebook post about what some fool or bimbo just ate for dinner, how they are at the mall or how they took third place in a three-person-Cat III race:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/47703259#47703259

Keyboards will become: record/send/play/rewind

[fiamme red]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505124_162-57459625/facebook-u.s-unique-users-down-4.8-in-6-months/

[azrider]

"Lockup" for Facebook shares ended today and everybody dumped it. FB dropped 6.23% today hitting all time low of $19.88.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/technology/facebook-shares-hit-new-low-as-a-lockup-period-ends.html

NOW is the time to buy!!!!!!!!!!!!

:p

[Louis]

NOW is the time to buy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go for it.

[CNY rider]

A good perspective on Faceyspace:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-06/facebook-investors-know-exactly-whom-to-blame.html

[CaliFly]

A good perspective on Faceyspace:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-06/facebook-investors-know-exactly-whom-to-blame.html

On a warm summer's evenin' on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin' out the window at the darkness
'Til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made my life out of readin' people's faces,
And knowin' what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you don't mind my sayin', I can see you're out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice."

So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

Now Ev'ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
'Cause ev'ry hand's a winner and ev'ry hand's a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep."

So when he'd finished speakin', he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

[Louis]

Hey, hey - big increase today. ;)

[nighthawk]

Hey, hey - big increase today. ;)

I heard that... And thought of this thread.

[norcalbiker]

Hey, hey - big increase today. ;)

SELL SELL SELL

before they go down again. :p