My feet are EN FUEGO! - ideas?

[54ny77]

Am using Northwave Aerlite SBS, love 'em, nice wide toe box, plenty comfortable. Pedals are DA 7900.

After about hour 4 on bike, my left 3 toes tend to go numb and the bottom left side/ball of my foot gets a really hot/numb sensation. I have to stop and rest, take off shoes, and massage foot. Typically that works out fine because that's about the end of the rides, but sometimes (lately) it'll be longer ride and then the rest of ride sucks with me distracted by aching foot.

Shorter rides (2-3 hours), no issue whatsoever.

A few months back I swapped out the Speedplay's, thinking my feet would benefit from a wider platform of the Shimano. In the end, it's same issue (I'd get the same hot spots when using Speedplay's as well).

Could be from the more riding I'm doing lately, who knows. All I know is, I don't know anything about what to do for inserts, orthotics, etc., and am not thrilled about the idea of going custom ($$$$), but if I have to I guess I will. Would like to try alternatives first.

Suggestions appreciated.

[gdw]

Your shoes are probably too narrow. I had the same problem with Sidi Mega's. They were great for 6 hours and them sheer misery. Your feet swell overtime, 4 hours in your case, and the shoes don't so they no longer fit properly and cut off circulation causing numbness and hot spots.

[dave thompson]

You might be experiencing early Morton's Neuroma. Described symptoms sound like it. I have it and even using shoes that are more than wide enough won't prevent it from being felt. The only "cure" I've found is what your are doing; rest/massage/get pressure off your feet every couple of hours.

[ultraman6970]

The 1st thing i would do is to change the insoles for the specialized ones with normal to high arches. Why? the insoles have a metatarsal button thing that will relieve the nerves and bones in case you have a morton neuroma.

If you go with the spech insoles please pick the normal to high arch insole, the feet will fall into a neutral position and will have more support.

Another detail, I would add shims but since your pain is after many hours I doubt you need them. Another detail... probably your feet are swelling, the shoe gets too tight and there you have it... pain.

Another cause of the problem, take the insole out and check out the nuts inside of the shoe, big chance a screw is too long and 1 or 2 mm off position after two hours hammering over it it just starts hurting. Solution is just file them or put shorter screws.

The cheaper way to test if you feet swell is to put another insole, a thinner one, so your feet have a lot of room. Or go riding w/o insoles (some guys take them off), if the pain is no there no more there you have it. Or bigger shoes or thinner insoles (sole brand comes to mind, the one ultra thin and moldeable)

Good luck :)

[Elefantino]

Find a good podiatrist who is also a cyclist. Seriously..

I have bad feet and I had a bike doc help me. He's in Appleton, Wis., though, and that probably doesn't help.

[vav]

My feet are en fuego

agua!!!

[jds108]

I'd go with the podiatrist suggestion as well... Best of luck in finding the answer/cure.

[Bob Loblaw]

Caveat: when you ask for free advice it is usually worth what you pay for it.

There is a nerve that runs up the underside of your foot. If your shoes are too narrow, the tarsal bones are pressed together and pinch it, causing pain and burning in the ball of your foot. Even if your shows fit right, they can swell after a few hours in the saddle with the same result.

In the interest of KISS, I would start by loosening your shoes 3 hours in. Also, I will twist my foot sideways in the shoe so the arch is up and my knee is moved outboard whenever there is a downhill. That helps too.

Good luck

BL

[54ny77]

Thanks for all the tips, I'll give 'em each a try.

And yes when I hit hour 2 or 3 I really loosen all the straps on the shoes which tends to help, particularly the ratcheting strap at the top.

Dave T, the Morton's thing--that's why I haven't gone custom. Don't know if custom shoes/orthotics will cure it, but honestly haven't looked that much into it.

The easiest solution, of course, is stop riding so damned long!

(Alas, not an option until the doc tells me absolutely no. I'm hellbent on putting on alotta miles right now, for a variety of reasons.)

[ultraman6970]

After reading your last post, the impression i have is that your feet get swollen a tiny bit and then you start with the problem.

By experience, i had this problems plus shims and stuff... kind'a clock work to figure it out exactly what the problem was. Usually when you get off the bike the pain is gone and the podologist has no way to know if you feet swell or not that's why that symptom is hard to figure it out.

Another thing that can help you, the socks. Pretty much i have used almost all the brands in the market but there is a big difference between a good brand medium price and the cheap stuff from Mr socks for example. Specially if you have problems with your feet.

Good luck.

[Louis]

I would try one of these two options:

1) Try a wider shoe.

2) See a podiatrist who knows a lot about cycling.

Years ago I was in a similar situation and tried #1. It worked for me.

[54ny77]

what's wider than northwave aerlite sbs?

i've had sidi mega, which were ok but the northwave's wider and far more comfy (to me). tried shimano top of line shoe, didn't feel as wide as northwave. same for specialized pro (they make a wide ee version which was very comfy and a nice shoe but again, the northwave's felt wider to me).

ultraman i'll give those bg footbeds a try, there's a specialilzed shop nearby hopefully they stock 'em. presume you're referring to the green one--normal to high arch.

I would try one of these two options:

1) Try a wider shoe.

2) See a podiatrist who knows a lot about cycling.

Years ago I was in a similar situation and tried #1. It worked for me.

[Louis]

what's wider than northwave aerlite sbs?

Sorry, I can't help you there.

If you want to investigate the width issue in more depth you could find an shoe store with a Brannock device. That way you could figure out if you really are way out there in width, and you'd have a number (edit: I mean letter) to compare to what various shoe manufacturers recommend for their different models. (You might have to contact them to get that info.)

http://www.brannock.com/brannock/images/brannock2.jpg

[gdw]

Lake. Their wide shoes are EE.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Your shoes are probably too narrow. I had the same problem with Sidi Mega's. They were great for 6 hours and them sheer misery. Your feet swell overtime, 4 hours in your case, and the shoes don't so they no longer fit properly and cut off circulation causing numbness and hot spots.

My guess (and that is all it is) is this, Jim. Went through the same thing with a pair of Sidi shoes. Too narrow. Relief came with a different pair of shoes.

[Z3c]

I would take some time and evaluate if your insole is fully supporting your instep. Most folks have more of an arch than they realize. Take your insoles out of your shoes and stand on them and see how much gap there is between the insole and your foot. What typically happens is that over the course of a longer ride the instep is slowly stretched; think of the underside of your foot as a leaf spring.. When under supported, the stretching can be really painful. Unfortunately most shoes come with pretty cheap insoles, even many higher priced shoes.. I have had great results with Sole brand insoles; they are heat moldable and fairly inexpensive.. The blue and green Specialized insole often solve the problem but for pretty much the same price the Sole will be molded to you.

If your impression is that the shoes are comfortable, I doubt it is a width issue..

Feel free to PM if you want to disucss.

[benitosan1972]

Happens to me too... around 4-5hrs/80-100miles
I think it's mostly the pressure of my feet pressing on
stiff unforgiving carbon soles... sounds like a comfortable
insole/support/footbed may be the answer, plus adequately
fitting shoes, or just giving your feet a few moments to breath
or stretch mid-ride. You don't think about sore sore feet from cycling
(mostly running), but they get their share of stress sitting in those Rapha Yak shoes all day long ;)

[fogrider]

here are some options with good information: http://www.bikefit.com/products.php
I need two shims per foot and each kit came with enough for 2 pairs of shoes.

http://www.superfeet.com/activity/cycling.aspx

[gaucho753]

FWIW, I greatly reduced the amount of numbing I get by moving the cleats slightly. In my case it was slightly toward the heal, but your results may vary. May be worth experimenting. (It's also free.)

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I would take some time and evaluate if your insole is fully supporting your instep. Most folks have more of an arch than they realize. Take your insoles out of your shoes and stand on them and see how much gap there is between the insole and your foot. What typically happens is that over the course of a longer ride the instep is slowly stretched; think of the underside of your foot as a leaf spring.. When under supported, the stretching can be really painful. Unfortunately most shoes come with pretty cheap insoles, even many higher priced shoes.. I have had great results with Sole brand insoles; they are heat moldable and fairly inexpensive.. The blue and green Specialized insole often solve the problem but for pretty much the same price the Sole will be molded to you.

If your impression is that the shoes are comfortable, I doubt it is a width issue..

Feel free to PM if you want to disucss.

I guess this goes to show you that this problem manifests itself in different ways. I used the same Specialized BG footbed with the Sidi Ergo 2's that I was experiencing "hot foot" issues after about three hours. Once I switched to Bont A-One's with the same footbed, no more "hot foot" issues, even though the Sidi Ergo 2's were canted in such a way to provide more arch support than the Sidi's.

I'm not saying that this is happening to Jim, but I was able to narrow my "hot foot" issue down to a too narrow shoe, combined with my cleat placement being not far back enough.

[soulspinner]

Got a mortons in my left, so bad the doc wouldnt give me cortisone.Got an orthotic that loads the foot in a different area, and so far no surgery. Its been ten years. Good luck.

[charliedid]

I noticed you said new shoes are nice and wide. I wonder if maybe that are too wide and your feet are creating friction? Also, what socks are you wearing? Be careful about Podiatrists. They all want to make Orthotics even if you don't Ned them. Go talk with the clOsest shop that does prOfessional fitting. And if your shoes need to be loosened after a couple hours, start off with them looser.

[rugbysecondrow]

What do you do prior to your feet hurting/numbing etc? What do you do as a preventative measure? Foot strengthening, shoes while walking/running etc? Do you wiggle your toes, change positions, get out of the saddle etc while riding? I would think that if the shoes were explicitly at fault, I think it would manefest sooner than the 3-4 hour mark.

Anyway, you likley have thought through all of this, but sometimes the obvious is the easy stuff to miss, so I thought I would mention it.

[oldpotatoe]

Am using Northwave Aerlite SBS, love 'em, nice wide toe box, plenty comfortable. Pedals are DA 7900.

After about hour 4 on bike, my left 3 toes tend to go numb and the bottom left side/ball of my foot gets a really hot/numb sensation. I have to stop and rest, take off shoes, and massage foot. Typically that works out fine because that's about the end of the rides, but sometimes (lately) it'll be longer ride and then the rest of ride sucks with me distracted by aching foot.

Shorter rides (2-3 hours), no issue whatsoever.

A few months back I swapped out the Speedplay's, thinking my feet would benefit from a wider platform of the Shimano. In the end, it's same issue (I'd get the same hot spots when using Speedplay's as well).

Could be from the more riding I'm doing lately, who knows. All I know is, I don't know anything about what to do for inserts, orthotics, etc., and am not thrilled about the idea of going custom ($$$$), but if I have to I guess I will. Would like to try alternatives first.

Suggestions appreciated.

I had same issue and cycling orthotics solved this. Got E soles, with a metatarsel 'bump', worked for me.

[Lovetoclimb]

I had a similar issue with Sidi Ergo 2, then Giro Factors and Prolights. Spent $30 on the heat moldable Louis Garneau Thermo-Cool insoles. Nary a problem since. Recently switched from Look to Time to Speedplay pedals and noticed a slight difference in feet sensations. But I just put a 5 hours ride in on Sunday with no discomfort. Competitive Cyclist sells the insoles. Good luck

[Z3c]

I guess this goes to show you that this problem manifests itself in different ways. I used the same Specialized BG footbed with the Sidi Ergo 2's that I was experiencing "hot foot" issues after about three hours. Once I switched to Bont A-One's with the same footbed, no more "hot foot" issues, even though the Sidi Ergo 2's were canted in such a way to provide more arch support than the Sidi's.

I'm not saying that this is happening to Jim, but I was able to narrow my "hot foot" issue down to a too narrow shoe, combined with my cleat placement being not far back enough.

There are a lot of possible causes/solutions here. In my ~10 years as a fitter I have solved this problem many times with insoles but as with anything fit related, there is no universal answer.. In your case, you may have had too much insole/arch height and that can be equally if not more painful. More is not always better; the right amount is better but in my experience, most folks underestimate how much arch they have..

[MadRocketSci]

i used to have toe numbness problems...now every spring I pull the custom superfeet cork orthotics out of my ski boots and plop them into my bike shoes. heel is a little thick but they still work fine - problem solved. If you don't have ski boot custom insoles go get some cycling ones. money well spent.

[rccardr]

All good advice, but what really worked for me was training to lift more and mash less. The more I lift and the more round my stroke, the less my feet numb and the longer I can ride.

[Jaq]

Didn't read the other responses, so apologies for any repeats.

I just happened to find a Sept, 2010 Bicycling magazine behind my file cabinet today... and there's an article called "Cool Your Hot Dogs."

Painful burning on the ball of the foot (aka hot foot or metatarsalgia) is usually a result of hot weather or poortly fitting shoes or both on long, hilly rides. "Pressure can pinch nerves in one or both feet and shut down a ride fast," says Amol Saxena, DPM, a time-trialist in Palo Alto. "If hot foot strikes while you're on a ride, there isn't much you can do other than stop, take off your shoes and let your feet cool down." Saxena takes the following precautions:

Do the Squish Test When shopping for shoes, pull out the insode and hold it up to the bottom of your bare foot in front of a mirror. "If you can see any part of your foot beyond the borders, you need a wider shoe." When you find the perfect shoe, but another pair [cuz we're all made of money] for backup.

Take a load off Move your cleats a few millimeters closer to the heel of the shoe to take pressure off your forefoot. Or switch to a larger platform pedal to more evenly distribute the pressure across your feet.

Cushion the blow. Over time and after many miles on the bike, your feet start to lose their natural padding, which can make riding painful. Adding more supportive insoles can help.

Be a material girl Pick socks made of high-tech fibers like Coolmax and Thermax, which wick away sweat. And don't buy a pair right off the rack; try them on with your cycling shoes first.

[54ny77]

Thanks all for the thoughtful responses. Hopefully useful for others with the issue as well.

I picked up some of the Soles thin heat moldable inserts that Z3 mentioned and we'll see how it goes.

[54ny77]

For those of you who put in some sort of insoles/orthotics, did you do both shoes or just the one with a problem?

My issue is with left foot, not the right, and i'm wondering if the new insole height difference vs. the original stock insole will give me goofy leg length issues/imbalance if I only do 1 shoe. Maybe the difference is so de minimis it doesn't matter. I dunno, never dealt with this before.

Any additional advice on this would be much appreciated.

Widest point of the Northwave Aerlite SBS's is just a hair under 9 cm, for whatever that's worth. Maybe this thread would be a good resource to catalog shoe widths for those with need of this kind of info.

[dave thompson]

Use your new orthotics in both shoes.

[54ny77]

Would like to thank everyone here for their advice/info and to Z3C for recommending the Soles brand inserts. I gave the "thin sport" model a whirl this weekend, and they did wonders. Picked 'em up from a local REI, This was the model:

https://secure.yoursole.com/us/footbeds/thin-sport/

Take out the existing factory shoe inserts, plop the Soles inserts into 200 degree oven for about 3 minutes, set in shoe, then stand still for 5 min to get 'em worked in. General repeat use does the same thing. Rode with 'em this Sat & Sun on 5-6 hour rides. Body felt like crap due to the rides, but no foot hot spots which is what mattered most.

Feels really awkward for the first while with such a thick arch filling the gap, but they seemed to have done the trick. $50 inserts saved me at least a few hundred or more for shoes, since I can keep the shoes I've already got and like.

If you've got this same issue, it might be worth it to check these out. It was, for me, a $50 gamble that worked. Again, thanks Z3C and to others on educating me to the issues.

[ultraman6970]

55, as i said before your problem was that your feet were getting swollen after so many hours riding, the insoles you got gave you more room and probably gave you a lot more support than the original ones. I use those insoles in my regular shoes and actually only in one foot because i have in leg shorter a few mm.

The main issue with cycling shoes is that they dont stretch like they used to do many years ago. Add to that the fact that when you get older the machinery doesnt work as it should and then pains shows up everywhere... Happy you fixed the problem.

As for the person asking about using insoles in one shoe only, well... yes you can but the problem in doing it is that depending on the insole picked you could end up with a longer leg or discrepancies in the position of the hip because of the thickness of the insoles.

Good luck.

[bking]

someone may have offered this and i missed it. I had same problem, i'm on speedplay's and was wearing sidi's. I did two things:
1.
Moved cleat back so pedal was more toward the center of my foot. doesn't move much, but it does make a difference.
2.
Tried Fizik shoes. Love the footbed. Night and day from the sidis, and i changed beds in them as well. nothing seemed to help.

[ultraman6970]

Whats your problem in specific?