Touring Cyclists = No Love from Roadies (why?)

[rkalams]

Normally I wouldn't start a thread about something that has been discussed ad nausem all over the internet (roadie elitism) but I've experienced this on several occasions and it's beyond bizarre. Here's my experience:

I'm a mountain biker by preference but since moving up north and away from the trailhead I've started road riding again, mainly for conditioning for bikepacking (backcountry cycle touring on mountain bike) and road touring. Typically I take out my CX bike for road duty, wearing helmet, full kit, etc. and do 40-60 mile rides. Everytime I'm "roadie"-ed out I get nods and waves from other road cyclists. I always exchange a few words of "hello" "great weather" or the like when passing other riders and the courtesy is always returned.

Now here is the bizzarre part. About 1 in 3 rides I will load up my bike with full soft bags (pretty much this (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6p2SKsZsMXQ/T6g0qzaTkHI/AAAAAAAAGXg/y6MYrr673zE/s912/IMG_3515.JPG)), put on my touring clothing (baggie shorts, hi vis tank top or tee) and head out and do the exact same rides, at nearly the exact same pace, just to keep my legs use to the extra weight. I'd say 1 in 4 people, maybe even less, wave/nod or say hello (usually it's the more experienced [older] crowd), the rest don't even acknowledge when I say hello when passing. This happened today in "touring mode": I pulled over to adjust one of my bags, while doing so another rider passes me. I get back on my bike and start riding again. He's moving at a pretty solid pace and I don't really want to ride any quicker so I give him like 25 yards space and basically end up matching his speed all the way back into town. I pull up next to him at the light, say hello and he just looks at me, shakes his head a little, doesn't say a word and rides off. This guy did an excellent job at perpetuating the "roadie elistism" stereotype but to what purpose?

Are "touring cyclists" not considered "hardcore enough" riders to warrant the roadie's respect? (I think of motorcyclist waving to eachother on the road but ignoring scooters who try and elicit a thumbs up or wave) Do some of these guys have too big of egos and get upset when being passed by a "touring cyclist" at a fast clip? I don't get it but it happens every time I change setups and it's impossible to ignore.

[Steve in SLO]

I live along a relatively busy stretch of road for tourists, and alghough I am a 'roadie', I always wave and chat with them to find out where they're from and what's up in general.
I do admit that in my racing days during college, I would have rather died than strap a big bag on my bike. I considered the whole thing inferior to my style of riding. I don't have a good explanation for my feeling of superiority to this day, but it sure was there.
Perhaps some of the cool feelings you are experiencing stem from the assumption by roadies that all roadies are locals and 'like us', whereas all tourists are from elsewhere and 'not like us'...the old xenophobe thing.

[Ken Robb]

Another angle to these observations: I get much nicer attitudes from drivers of cars and trucks when dressed as a tourist or a fred than when I'm in Lycra/Spandex and all of my outfits are plain mostly solid colors with no race kit appearance.

Riding in regular-looking clothing=poor guy and we are both trying to get somewhere. Riding in race kit= you are playing in the street and getting in my way while I am trying to get somewhere. That's how we look to most drivers.

[majorpat]

Some folks are just tools. My theory is that the longer you've been riding, the more often you tend to wave at other bikers.

[azrider]

I'm a roadie and from the amount of unreciprocated waves I've recived over the years I've deduced that roadies hate me too.

So don't worry........"they" don't discriminate.

[bobswire]

Nice set up on your bike, looks like you could do the Continental Divide.;)
I really don't give much mind to stuck up riders, they is too cool to be cool.
I get razzed about my seat bag being so BIG since I like to take along a snack, for some even using a water bottle is considered Fred.

http://i45.tinypic.com/frnzn.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/23if8z9.jpg

[jr59]

omg!

Don't let William see that pic!

[fuzzalow]

Don't fret. Be it known there are miscreants from the inner sanctum of the cyclist schmuck society that don't like anybody other than schmucks such as themselves. They treat you differently because you are not one of them. And for being that, you can count your blessings.

[Viper]

See here:

http://www.amazon.com/And-Play-Golf-Youre-Friend/dp/0684867338

And if you ride a unicycle, same-same.

I enjoy and respect any bike and bike rider who wears a helmet and pedals a bike. Even those who wear Rapha. :banana:

Touring, roadie, MTB, smurfy climbers, Clydesdale sprinters, Tri-geeks...we're all doing the same thing.

[dan682]

I'm impressed how much luggage you have on that bike without having any racks! What type of rear bag is that?

[Earl Gray]

Other to to just say that it is complete ignorance, I can't say I understand it.

I used to lead a C pace evening ride and I tried to hold the pace in the 15 mph range.

Most riders were not what you would consider your racer boy Arrogant Roadie Bastard. For the most part they were older, slow, ignorant, arrogant bastards.

If I showed up in full kit on my road bike or even on my touring bike (sans bags) no one looked at me strange. However, if I was riding my SS MTB with baggies they look at me with doubt that they should leave the parking lot with me.

The funny thing, is that I always rode faster on the MTB than I would on my road bike(s). Not because it was faster but just because I could not gear down.

Many people could never accept me on my MTB but were fine if they saw me on any bike with drop bars.

[Bob Loblaw]

I was like that when I was a junior. Then I got clobbered a few times by guys on old bikes with cut off shorts and beards. That humbled me. Now I go out on my full fendered steel single speed and pass the lesson of humility on to others. :beer:

BL

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and say hello. Just got back from 20, mostly on the local MUT. Plenty of people out, plenty of different styles. Everybody friendly.

What Majorpat said . . . some people are just major tools and let 'em go.

BBD

[tannhauser]

That guy was a prick disguised as a roadie. Don't worry - he's a prick in real life too.

OTOH I've come across many happy tourers, but also a scary minority: the earthball guys and gals with the 1000 mile stare, unwilling to acknowledge anyone that interferes with their singular (so they think) spiritual journey. No one for miles around, I come up to them, smile, say hi...not even a grimace, a glimmer of recognition, no simpatico nod, not even a smirk.

People are weird.

[pinkshogun]

i subconsciously chuckle at the Freds and Fredas of the world even though i always ride in baggy knickers, white cotton socks and a cotton t-shirt during summer.

[Jaq]

Bike touring was what got me into cycling to begin with. Graduation present from high school was a Motobecane Grand Touring; friends and I did a trip that summer, another the following summer. I've done a few since; not nearly enough.

I was so hooked I started racing - on the Motobecane until I could afford a decent race bike.

So bike tourists always get lots of respect from me.

Personally, I sometimes worry that I come off as elitist when I'm out training; the thing is, I'm usually too focused/preoccupied to wave or chat. It's nothing personal - I just got stuff to do.

[gdw]

Over the years I've found that most of the arrogant asshats rarely venture an hour from their home base or the local trendy coffee shop and are fair weather riders. The majority of roadies I see when returning home from bikepacking trips are friendly especially the women who almost always smile and wave.

[JAGI410]

I think a lot of it is jealousy. You mean you can go riding for weeks/months at a time, with unshaved legs, wearing casual clothes, AND have all kinds of cool gear?!

I'll freely admit I'm jealous of them! I'd love to take off for a while without financial/family obligations!

[dauwhe]

My rule is to wave at all cyclists, including those who are only biking due to suspended driver's licenses. I mostly get ignored by roadies, as me and my bike violate most of the rules (fenders, bags, wide tires, MTB shoes, visor on helmet, I'm slow, wrong socks, no shades, stop at red lights, etc.)...

[JohnHemlock]

I love ski touring and road riding. Both of them seem to attract a higher proportion of toolbags than my other recreational pursuits.

On the other hand, I find mountain bikers and river rats to be more welcoming and friendly to all, whether Freds or elites.

YMMV, etc etc. I don't spend much time contemplating this, just my general impressions.

[Frankwurst]

I wave at everybody and stop to ask if they need help if stopped beside the road and I look like a complete douche bag (by cycling standards) most of the time. Their response makes no difference either way. Hell I'm having a good time. I'm riding my bike! :beer:

[witcombusa]

See here:

http://www.amazon.com/And-Play-Golf-Youre-Friend/dp/0684867338

And if you ride a unicycle, same-same.

I enjoy and respect any bike and bike rider who wears a helmet and pedals a bike. Even those who wear Rapha. :banana:

Touring, roadie, MTB, smurfy climbers, Clydesdale sprinters, Tri-geeks...we're all doing the same thing.

without a helmet....I guess the "and pedals a bike" thing ain't enough for ya....

[martinrjensen]

Yes, basically people say hi to someone who they feel they can associate with. Some people are a little more explicitly defined in that respect. their loss. in that. I say hi to everybody I pass. I usually get an acknowledgement from them. If I just blow past someone I don't have time to say hi. it happens.That guy was a prick disguised as a roadie. Don't worry - he's a prick in real life too.

OTOH I've come across many happy tourers, but also a scary minority: the earthball guys and gals with the 1000 mile stare, unwilling to acknowledge anyone that interferes with their singular (so they think) spiritual journey. No one for miles around, I come up to them, smile, say hi...not even a grimace, a glimmer of recognition, no simpatico nod, not even a smirk.

People are weird.

[killacks]

...the tights were too tight. Tough to be friendly with a major wedgie (did I spell that right??)

:rolleyes:

[wc1934]

. . . and say hello. Just got back from 20, mostly on the local MUT. Plenty of people out, plenty of different styles. Everybody friendly.

What Majorpat said . . . some people are just major tools and let 'em go.

BBD

+1
I acknowledge anyone I encounter, be they cyclists, runners or pedestrians.
Some wave back, others pretend they don't see me.
What can I say?

[zmudshark]

I say 'hi' to city bikers and old guys jogging, I always try to give them a thumbs up and word of encouragement. Being out there is good, no matter the means.

Pretty sure the guy you saw was a tri guy or an aspiring cat 6. As someone else said, dick on the road, dick in life. He probably hits his dog, too. Maybe even his wife.

[William]

When you give and don't expect anything back that's enjoyment. But if you give and expect a return it's an investment. Some folks get upset if they don't get a return on their investment. While it's understandable from a common courtesy standpoint, the reality is that many folks are rude or self absorbed. As the old saying goes; "Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are good is like expecting the bull not to charge because you are a vegetarian."




William

[rkalams]

I'm impressed how much luggage you have on that bike without having any racks! What type of rear bag is that?

Thanks! Between the frame bags and a 10 oz compressible backpack I use to grab food before I hit camp I have everything I need for touring. The tail bag is a Revelate Designs, the rest I made.


That guy was a prick disguised as a roadie. Don't worry - he's a prick in real life too.

OTOH I've come across many happy tourers, but also a scary minority: the earthball guys and gals with the 1000 mile stare, unwilling to acknowledge anyone that interferes with their singular (so they think) spiritual journey.

People are weird.

+1 on that! I've met some interesting characters while touring.


I'll freely admit I'm jealous of them! I'd love to take off for a while without financial/family obligations!

Can you get away for a night or two? Even shorts trips are memorable and fun ones.


When you give and don't expect anything back that's enjoyment. But if you give and expect a return it's an investment.

Totally agree. I just say hello, wave or nod at everyone and usually don't invest too much in a response. Hell, sometimes by the time you notice the other person has waved you've already crossed paths. I was just more surprised by the difference in response depending on my "mode" of cycling. The guy today just surprised me more than anything. I doubt he would have acted differently if I was in a kit.

[William]

Thanks! Between the frame bags and a 10 oz compressible backpack I use to grab food before I hit camp I have everything I need for touring. The tail bag is a Revelate Designs, the rest I made.



Nice set up there!!:cool:


Oh, I saw it JR, don't you think I didn't notice.:no:

:)

Totally agree. I just say hello, wave or nod at everyone and usually don't invest too much in a response. Hell, sometimes by the time you notice the other person has waved you've already crossed paths. I was just more surprised by the difference in response depending on my "mode" of cycling. The guy today just surprised me more than anything. I doubt he would have acted differently if I was in a kit.

Understood, I've had the same thing happen being kitted up vs riding my Mtb.



William

[MattTuck]

I try to wave to everyone i see, with the exception of when I'm doing sprint intervals, in which case I don't see much.


not everyone waves to me back, some do, some don't. I don't think it means anything, some people are in their own zone, some people are focused on other things. I don't wave to every other car i see on the road when I'm driving, maybe some people have that perspective.

[rkalams]

Oh, I saw it JR, don't you think I didn't notice.:no:



what'd i missss?

EDIT: oooohhhhh, his saddle bags, lol.

[fogrider]

I don't wave. I do the nod thing and I do say: "hi" or "morning" when riding up and passing. here's the thing, there are all kinds of riders, nice guys and jerks. just because one gets on a bike that doesn't mean they become nice.

today I went out for a late afternoon ride and chatted with a young lad from Russia. it turns out he loves living in san francisco and he lives a few blocks from where I grew up. we rode back together and I learned where to find some good Russian food.

peace.

[carlineng]

Roadies aspire to all things race-like. Competition is race-like, thus everyone else on the road is a target and/or threat to the ego. When you keep pace with all your weight, bags and Fred-threads, you bruise competitive egos and they act rude in retaliation. Saying "hi" as you pass is interpreted as rubbing salt into the wounds. That's my take at least.


today I went out for a late afternoon ride and chatted with a young lad from Russia. it turns out he loves living in san francisco and he lives a few blocks from where I grew up. we rode back together and I learned where to find some good Russian food.


Where do you find good Russian food in San Francisco?

[zetroc]

Where do you find good Russian food in San Francisco?

Many places in the Richmond district.

[nighthawk]

I think the frame bag might intimidate people. :cool:

...I actually intimidate on purpose with my black leather fanny-pack.


Seriously.. I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not always in the best mood when I first get on my bike, you may or may not get a wave from me, depending on where I'm at in my ride. More miles = more smiles.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Roadies aspire to all things race-like. Competition is race-like, thus everyone else on the road is a target and/or threat to the ego. When you keep pace with all your weight, bags and Fred-threads, you bruise competitive egos and they act rude in retaliation. Saying "hi" as you pass is interpreted as rubbing salt into the wounds. That's my take at least.



Where do you find good Russian food in San Francisco?

. . . your take is right on.

BBD

[Ginger]

Red lights are the great equalizers...

Maybe he was so out of breath from staying in front of you that he couldn't talk?

Maybe you really really reeked? Or maybe he did?

Maybe he thought you were hitting on him?

People are strange for all sorts of reasons.

I'll say that I usually wave, but not necessarily if I'm riding alone. I've had overly friendly or lonely touring type people (and roadies for that matter) try to become my best buddy when I didn't want to be unfriendly, but I didn't want to be THAT friendly so I'm a bit less inviting than I used to be.

[benitosan1972]

Some people are just miserable at life no matter what you do... you tried to be friendly-he didn't reciprocate-you go on-he stays miserable... plus, he's prolly pissed that a heavy tourer could keep up with his weight weenie-aero-pro kit setup, that says more... happy trails and keep smiling & pedaling! :)

[jmoore]

Just go ride your bike, whatever bike it is (unless it's a recumbent). Wave or don't wave, it doesn't matter. Don't worry about what other people think.

[Grant McLean]

Strokes. People feel bad when they don't get returned.

http://www.claudesteiner.com/strokes.htm

-g

[djg]

Geeze, I dunno. I have some great pals and team mates who are die-hard roadies. No doubt the road population -- including the racing population -- includes many friendly, decent, and easy-going folks. OTOH, I'm not sure I'd say that the licensed roadie population has anything on the population at large (outside of VO2 or bmi issues), or any serious dearth of the prickly, agressive, or self-absorbed.

I try to return a wave or a nod whenever I see one coming my way, and I don't care what kind of bike is being ridden, or what kind of shorts are being worn by the person waving (unless it's a guy wearing those weird little tri-athlete shorts, under that scary gap . . . but I digress).

As to whether I wave myself, as the first waver . . . well, sometimes, sure, but not at every rider I see.

[67-59]

I generally try to wave or nod to cyclists, runners and often walkers (in more rural/quieter areas), unless I'm sprinting or climbing hard at the moment.

I say "generally" because there are also times when I just get in a zone and don't consciously notice people, or I'm thinking through a problem, or I'm trying to get over a really bad day, etc. If I passed someone at one of those times and didn't return the greeting, I suspect I'd be described as one of those hyper-competitive, Rapha-wearing roadie jerks...but the reality is often that I just didn't notice them....

As for why some people discriminate based on the type of bike the other person is riding, it's hard to say...but road cycling is hardly the only place where this happens. For example, some Harley riders I know will wave to any passing motorcyclist, while others would never think of waving to a passing Honda or Kawasaki.:eek:

[Ken Robb]

I .. For example, some Harley riders I know will wave to any passing motorcyclist, while others would never think of waving to a passing Honda or Kawasaki.:eek:

Well, you see, those Japanese bikes pass the Harleys so quickly there is no time for a wave. :)

[Seramount]

giving a crap about who waves to whom is bewildering to me.

[Dekonick]

I just nod and wave to everyone. Harley, runner, walker, HS kids out and about, roadies, racers, tourers...

Every once in awhile I meet a real turd of a person. Most folks are just that - ordinary folks with a story.

What is your story?

:)

[JAGI410]

Can you get away for a night or two? Even shorts trips are memorable and fun ones.

I usually do a couple times a year. I'm a big fan of the S24O!

[r_mutt]

I'm usually in full-training mode and too busy trying to go hard to bother to wave at every rider on the road. Sometimes i see riders i vaguely know so i'll wave, but there are too many cyclists on my usual route to start waving at everyone.

When you go for a run, do you wave at every single runner?

[benitosan1972]

when you're too busy chasing that Strava KOM to acknowledge any/every cyclist that you see out there, a simple http://www.mungermack.com/pics/texags/clint-nod.gifis enough!

[snah]

Not going to read this whole thread, but since we're talking personal experience, worse than roadie, TT guys. No love from them no matter what I'm riding.

[Rueda Tropical]

Not going to read this whole thread, but since we're talking personal experience, worse than roadie, TT guys. No love from them no matter what I'm riding.

If you were hammering away in a TT position for hours you'd be grouchy to.

[charliedid]

I have done my fair share of touring in the past 30 years or so. I can guarantee that the elitist/crabby touring cyclist does in fact exist.

This is not about cycling, it is about people.

All kinds...