L-arginine/Beet juice

[lovethesport]

I have been reading recently about the benefits and effect of taking L-arginine as a supplement to increase production of nitric oxide as compared to beet juice for improving endurance. Does anyone have experience or thoughts on this?

[Joachim]

Maybe not directly related to your question, but I have my concerns about using anything to elevate nitric oxide in muscle tissue (for exercise purposes). Even though is it used to increase the "pump" during exercise, it generates free radicals (not as reactive as OH radicals, but close), which is definitely not helping your recovery and can cause (intracellular) protein degradation and breakdown. Unless your muscles have enough reducing capacity, especially glutathione, those NO generated radicals are of no long-term benefit and only harmful. To prevent protein degradation during excessive oxidative stress, proteins add a glutathione molecule to cysteine containing proteins, by a process called S-glutathionylation. After the redox(oxidative) potential returns to normal, the glutathione molecule is removed by an enzyme called glutaredoxin through a process called reduction, more specifically deglutathionylation.

If there is not enough glutathione in the cell or too many free radicals, the cysteine residue on the protein can be modified by the addition of a sulfenic, sulfinic or sulfonic acid, which in the case of sulfinic and sulfonic acid, are irreversible modifications and leads to protein degradation.

I've been working on oxidative stress and redox (reduction and oxidation) signaling all my scientific career and I'm still amazed at how the short-term benefits are praised by the supplement industry while ignoring the long-term risks.

[lovethesport]

Allen Lim recommended Beet juice as a natural supplement each morning for the TDF cyclists when he was with Garmin and RadioShack...there are other choices to beet juice...

[Joachim]

Allen Lim recommended Beet juice as a natural supplement each morning for the TDF cyclists when he was with Garmin and RadioShack...there are other choices to beet juice...

And I am pretty sure he increased their intake of N-acetylcysteine too to make more glutathione to increase the reducing capacity of the muscles.

[akelman]

I've been working on oxidative stress and redox (reduction and oxidation) signaling all my scientific career and I'm still amazed at how the short-term benefits are praised by the supplement industry while ignoring the long-term risks.

You and your science. I bet you think you're so cool.

[Joachim]

You and your science. I bet you think you're so cool.

Ari! I'm still trying to convince some supplement makers that the earth is round but they keep on telling me I'm a witch....

PS. Star Wars or Star Trek?

[akelman]

If we throw you in the harbor and you swim, you're a witch. If not, oops. Now that's a well-designed experimental protocol.

[Joachim]

If we throw you in the harbor and you swim, you're a witch. If not, oops. Now that's a well-designed experimental protocol.

Yes and if I'm a witch, I get burned at the stake... well down here they might still do that or tie me up in the forest and wait for the wild boar and gators to eat me.

Bottom line... Allen Lim is not an idiot and there is much more to the nutritional program of TdF cyclists than just beet juice in the morning or L-arginine supplementation (no, not talking anything illegal). On the other hand, supplement companies will sell you anything. They are not even regulated.

[Louis]

If we throw you in the harbor and you swim, you're a witch. If not, oops. Now that's a well-designed experimental protocol.

But is he heavier than a duck? That is a well-designed, time-tested protocol.

[akelman]

They are not even regulated.

I have three basic rules that govern what I ingest: 1) avoid all supplements (for precisely the reason you give above); 2) if it's banned in Canada (BPA, for instance), it's banned in my house; 3) moderation in all things.

I don't pretend that this is based on science or insist that others should follow my lead -- except on the moderation thing, which really is tried and true -- just that it's a shorthand I've adopted for sorting through competing claims.

[Louis]

So what's the verdict on Glucosamine and Choindrotin (sp?).

That's one supplement I take for which I really don't know if I'm wasting my money or not.

[Joachim]

So what's the verdict on Glucosamine and Choindrotin (sp?).

That's one supplement I take for which I really don't know if I'm wasting my money or not.

Most anecdotal evidence points to that its not harmful and some of my collegues swear by it (they even sell it at super dicount prices at our university medical hospital pharmacy). But I'm by no means an expert on it. What I can tell you is to not waste your money on resveratrol supplements.

[Joachim]

For endurance use some citrulline malate before and after (tastes like sour patch kids) and N-acetylcysteine (NAC) after. All the benefits of NO with the reducing capacity of glutathione due to NAC supplementation. Nothing of course beats training.

[PQJ]

Ari! I'm still trying to convince some supplement makers that the earth is round but they keep on telling me I'm a witch....

PS. Star Wars or Star Trek?

Star Trek hands down. The earth is round?

[Viper]

Started with Beets in my juicer back in 2001. All I knew is that when I drank it, I felt more pep with exercise. Around 2005 I started with L-Arginine. You have to ingest a lot of it daily. I drink Beet Juice almost every day and I cycle on/off with L-Arginine from March to September. I take Hyaluronic Acid and it seems to help the knee a bit. Just a few years ago, I chuckled when I saw the recent medical studies on beets/aerobics.

I watch Star Trek nearly every week, TNG is a series you don't tire from (like The West Wing and seasons I and II of Miami Vice).

[lovethesport]

Started with Beets in my juicer back in 2001. All I knew is that when I drank it, I felt more pep with exercise. Around 2005 I started with L-Arginine. You have to ingest a lot of it daily. I drink Beet Juice almost every day and I cycle on/off with L-Arginine from March to September. I take Hyaluronic Acid and it seems to help the knee a bit. Just a few years ago, I chuckled when I saw the recent medical studies on beets/aerobics.

I watch Star Trek nearly every week, TNG is a series you don't tire from (like The West Wing and seasons I and II of Miami Vice).

Great... that's what I was searching for!

[wc1934]

Been juicing for awhile - FYI - beets will add a red tinge to your urine - knew this prior to juicing beets else I would have freaked.

Why waste money on the resveratrol supplements - Just drink the real thing!