Need to learn some French . . .

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'm going to do that France trip in July and I need to absorb enough French to be able to get by. Ordering in restaurants, casual conversations, picking up bar waitresses, etc. . . . :D

How to do this without huge time and $$ investment? $250-500 for Rosetta Stone seems a bit extreme.

Has anybody else had to deal with this same issue? Is there a low cost CD package I can listen to or load to my iPod that would give me what I need? Putting on the iPod while I ride seems like it would be ideal.

Thanks for any suggestions!

BBD

[MattTuck]

First thing I'd do is go to your local public library. They may have rosetta stone, for free. and if not, they probably have other resources for free.

That would be my first approach. after that, maybe find a french person in the area and see if they'd be willing to talk to you in french, maybe in return for photographic work, or something. not cd/computer program can replace actual dialog.

[MattTuck]

Also, watch the french feeds of movies and bike races. Since you know what they're trying to say, maybe it will help your brain.

I'd say that there are two parts of a new language, listening/understanding.... and being able to speak it. Another option is google translate on a smart phone... if you wait another 10 years, we'll probably not even need to learn new languages, we'll have real time translation ;)

[witcombusa]

I'm going to do that France trip in July and I need to absorb enough French to be able to get by. Ordering in restaurants, casual conversations, picking up bar waitresses, etc. . . . :D

How to do this without huge time and $$ investment? $250-500 for Rosetta Stone seems a bit extreme.

Has anybody else had to deal with this same issue? Is there a low cost CD package I can listen to or load to my iPod that would give me what I need? Putting on the iPod while I ride seems like it would be ideal.

Thanks for any suggestions!

BBD

Coed French call girl = win/win

[Tom]

All you have to learn is 'Pardon, je ne parlez pas Francais, je suis Americain, nous etres morons.'

Do try to learn some things, enough to show you respected them enough to try. Most people in France speak at least two languages and generally English is one of them.

Personally, I memorized and used "Montrez-moi la chaussure de ma cousine Raoul." whenever anybody said anything to me in French. It worked great.

[rwsaunders]

Coed French call girl = win/win

Wait...BBDave is not a Secret Service agent?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Do try to learn some things, enough to show you respected them enough to try. Most people in France speak at least two languages and generally English is one of them.

I've talked to several people who have been and they agree that if you at least try, most people will bend over backwords to try and help. I don't want to be he "ugly American."

I did learn "Voulez vous coucher avec moi?" from an old war movie, but I figure that will only cover a very limited scope of situations . . . :rolleyes:

Tom, I take it that sentence means "Pardon me, but I don't speak French. I am an American and we are all morons." . . . ?

BBD

[velotel]

Bottom line, you can't. The best you can do will be learn enough to, as has been suggested, say you don't speak french. They'll know that right away anyway but saying it is a manner of being polite. The problem with any program that you use between now and then is that first, time is too short, second, if by some miracle you (no insult to your intelligence or capacity at all intended here) were to learn enough in the time span to be able to speak a little they might answer you in french, and you won't have a clue what was said. Their pronunciation in real life is just that different. Also your pronunciation will probably be horrible and you'll say something that you know is correct, and it is in fact correct, only the pronunciation makes it quite impossible for them to understand what you said. Which I think is the source of the old bs saying that the french will only talk to you if you speak correctly. I've heard people speak in english and even though in the end I realized what had been said was correct, the pronunciation was such that I had no idea what was said.

Thus just relax and learn enough to tell them you don't speak french, learn enough so you feel good about yourself at least trying to speak french, and then enjoy yourself. In my experience the best way in the world to learn a language is with tapes, or now a disc, in the car. Works well. Slap the cd in the player every time you drive and go at it.

[velotel]

I've talked to several people who have been and they agree that if you at least try, most people will bend over backwords to try and help. I don't want to be he "ugly American."

I did learn "Voulez vous coucher avec moi?" from an old war movie, but I figure that will only cover a very limited scope of situations . . . :rolleyes:

Tom, I take it that sentence means "Pardon me, but I don't speak French. I am an American and we are all morons." . . . ?

BBD
Actually it's just "sorry, I don't speak french, I'm american, we're morons" except that they wouldn't understand moron, the word is crétins or imbéciles or idiots in french

[redir]

I can't say enough about how helpful Second Life was for learning Spanish. I know there is a French group there too. You join the group and take regular classes, one dedicated instructor or many, and they cost next to nothing. You meet real Spanish speakers from around the world or as it were in my case from Spain as that is the accent I wanted to learn. You meet with them and use voice and have regular conversational style learning while visiting in game simulations of cities in Spain like Barcelona.

It's really quite incredible. Seems a bit weird at first and you have to get over a learning curve on how to use the software. It's a 3D gaming environment and helps if you already have played other virtual world type games.

[jr59]

Well it's a cheap way around, but Google translate is your friend.

Just type in what you want to say and hit the speaker icon.

[rbtmcardle]

I just got home last night from a trip to England and France.. primarily Normandy but spent two separate days in Paris.. I have traveled fairly extensively in Europe, South America and Asia for business over the past 15 years or so.. try your best and and generally you will be respected for trying, however, just like in the USA, there are jerks in all countries and stations of life, dont be easily offended and keep smiling / be courteous, dont be demanding or ask unreasonable things or show a superior attitude and you will be amazed at how wonderful it can be. My method is to essentially place myself at the mercy of the people.. trust them with choices of food, places to go and a desire to learn of the local culture / way of life. It has never failed me.

Oh, and when you are met with a blank stare.. please dont just start speaking more loudly.. they arent deaf just dont understand.

I must admit, I have train envy.. that rail system is pretty incredible and even though I was almost a victim of a pickpocket in the subway (it was a scene as I caught him red handed and stood my ground) I would travel back to France again over England in a heartbeat.

[Ken Robb]

I would guess that if you carry a French phrase book you will be ok. It will show your good intentions and probably evoke sympathetic reactions from the French.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Bottom line, you can't. The best you can do will be learn enough to, as has been suggested, say you don't speak french. They'll know that right away anyway but saying it is a manner of being polite.

I just want to learn enough to order a coffee and let them know I'm really trying. It's their country and I want to try as much as I can in the time I have before the trip.

BBD

[Joel]

Dave,

One of the things that I've stood by in all the travels to quite varied places is to just get a handful of words and phrases in your head. Just enough to walk into a place and say hello.

No matter Russia, Vietnam, Cambodia, France or whereeever, the abililty to just have a couple of words of greeting disarms all but the most nasty people (who would be nasty anyway).

After that a smile, a shrug, and sign language, good natured pointing will loosen up both you and the person you are trying to communicate with.

Somehow it always works out just fine. Let it all go where it will and enjoy the "ride".

[brownhound]

For learning a few stock phrases and getting some familiarity...

I recommend going to iTunes and finding some free or cheap downloads. I downloaded a bunch of "Coffee Break French" for my wife, and they were really good. It gives you some phrases and understanding, they're fun to listen to, and the lessons are only about ten minutes long, so not too much to digest. Nothing worse than at the end of a long day sitting down to a two-hour lecture on a foreign language. You can do little lessons on a commute to work or leisurely ride.

For dealing with being there...

Relax and smile. A lot of problems being abroad comes from looking anxious or, worse, angry. The French are very big on accommodating customers and proud of their language -- if you smile, mangle a sentence along the lines "a bottle of water, please" then they'll try their English and bend over backwards to help. If you say "Je ne parle pas Francais [I don't speak French]; can I have a bottle of water, please" you'll come off as an ass and it won't go so well.

I have had great experience with smiling and saying something like "Good morning -- I would like one baguette and two croissants, thank you. Pardon, but my French is very poor" and having the whole bakery staff say in French and English "oh no, it's not bad at all. Thank you for coming!" They may correct your French, but that's considered a sign of being kind (i.e., helping you), not rudely correcting you, just FYI.

Also, the French are very big on "good morning" (bon jour or bon matin) and "goodbye." If you come into a store or cafe and lead with that, you won't be considered rude [yes, the French consider US rude] and they'll know instantly you're not French, and that'll grease the skids.

[bambam]

I have a couple of translation book but last year I found a french-english translation book on itunes(name not known right now). I have an ipod touch so the data conection could not be used all the time. Search the descriptions and it will tell you if you need a connection. I think I got it for about $5 and it translates both ways and would suggest phrases as you continued to type. Most people in Paris speak good english but It helped enough to pay for itself. The guy at Alex Singer spoke no english and the tranlation app helped my buy a hat there.

[1happygirl]

Congrats on your trip! Secondly fwiw, as others have stated, the reception won't be a warm one unless you can get yr accent perfect and once they realize they realize you are C'est American it's all over! Went with the French club myself even and most Parisians were not receptive at the time. However, the seniors in the countryside were different.

Anyway, Do you have a local college nearby? Where you can get a student tutor? For me the one on one would speed learning!
My thought is do you already speak another language fluently? Like Spanish? That's my current thought if I go back is polish something I know and communicate in that even if it's not French.
Spanish may be easier to learn quickly. Just a thought

[tiretrax]

Search the iTunes library. There are several free podcasts, especially from universities.

There are plenty of pocket sized phrase books and dictionaries, but they usually take too much time to sort through. The best thing I ever had on a trip to europe was laminated sheet that folded into a pocket size. It had common phrases for restaurants, shops, hotels and directions.

Also, you should consider finding a local teacher (high school or college) to teach you a few phrases and possible responses.

[coelacant]

Travel guides like Inside Paris, Inside Barcelona, etc. have a section on vocabulary and phrases, all you could ever need or want to know. How to order cafe au lait in at least 10 different ways, where to take a leak if there's no McDo, where to find the best bargains in the redlight disctrict and so on.

[echelon_john]

with limited time, i would recommend:

The phrase: "Est-ce-que je peux avoir..." pronounced "esskeh" then your best guess at what you want. Look up and try to memorize basics, like café for coffee, pain (pronounced pan) for bread, vin (pronounced ven) for wine, etc.

A big smile and at least trying to say politely what you want is big in the majority of your restaurant/coffeeshop/store interactions.

You don't have time to get the fluency you would need, so humility, politeness, and a willingness to make at least a symbolic effort are your best friends.

I've traveled a lot in places where I don't speak the language, and the smile/friendliness/attitude will be the determining factor in how you're treated, at least in the country.

In Paris, you just do the best you can. ; )

[MadRocketSci]

Coed French call girl = win/win

You need this:

Ote ta langue, je pete un coup....s'il vous plait (to make it more polite/formal)

p.s. i might be missing some accent agiu's....

[the bottle ride]

I have taught two former gals french in a few months, just enough to get by, before dragging them to France to meet the family (who speak little or no English).

The trick- watch movies you know well that are in French or that have sub titles. It works. Also, listening to a phrase book via headphones works really well- I learned enough Italian 3 years ago to get by in a part of Italy where no one spoke a bit of English. I listened to it once a day for 30 minutes 5-6 days a week and it was pretty good way to get "OK" at Italian.



All the anti-American/French are snob sentiments are sooo overblown. Not reality.

[rePhil]

Like someone else suggested, your local college, or perhaps a HS teacher.

I remember Old Potatoe hosting Italian lessons in his shop. A cool idea.

[MadRocketSci]

nobody has posted this but "I don't speak french" is "Je ne parle pas Francais", and a "pardon" whenever you would use an "excuse me", and don't say bonjour in the afternoon/evening, it's bonsoir (bone-swa)...

back when we had language tapes I thought Pimsleur was enough to get me through any country...

numbers phonetically:
uh
duh
twa
cat
sank
cease
set
hueet
nuof
deece

[pdmtong]

forget rosetta stone. if you want, get a basic phrase book

years ago, i concluded that is is possible to travel around europe without really needing to say much more than hello, thank you, coffee, bathroom. Nowadays, with a bankcard, GPS and smartphone who needs to talk? Their english will be better than your french, believe me.

That said, as others have mentioned, trying to speak something and a smile go a long way. get a phrase book and dont worry about it.

[mistermo]

I just want to learn enough to order a coffee and let them know I'm really trying. It's their country and I want to try as much as I can in the time I have before the trip.

BBD

My wife is French and I've learned enough to make feeble attempts, but as others have said here, they will appreciate you LOTS if you just make a pitiful effort.

I bought the Rosetta Stone program and it's pretty good, but as you point out, expensive. I wouldn't plunk down for that unless you plan to do more than one trip.

I've been several times and it never ceases to amaze me, the Americans who go into a cafe or store and speak English, acting as if they are in New York or any other American city. The fact that you're asking the question already shows a level of sensitivity many US travelers lack. If you greet them with a "bonjour"/"bonsoir" and apply "si'l vous plait" and "merci" liberally, you'll be ahead of many. You'll pick up the food quickly.

Breakfast is easy.... cafe, croissant, beurre (butter) and confiture (jam). C'est tout (that's it).

It's polite and customary to great the shopkeepers with "bonjour" upon entering the store, and a "merci" upon leaving.

My wife offers French tutoring and classes, but imagine you're not local. Her family has a farm house in Normandy within walking distance to the July 4/Stage 4 route. We're contemplating having a 4th of July party (not decided yet) for any Yanks who want to play baseball, eat hot dogs and apple pie, and watch bike racing.

[redir]

forget rosetta stone. if you want, get a basic phrase book

years ago, i concluded that is is possible to travel around europe without really needing to say much more than hello, thank you, coffee, bathroom. Nowadays, with a bankcard, GPS and smartphone who needs to talk? Their english will be better than your french, believe me.

That said, as others have mentioned, trying to speak something and a smile go a long way. get a phrase book and dont worry about it.

If you venture out of the cities and into the country side you are best off knowing the language as many of the people you need to talk too won't speak English. At least that's been my experience.

[flydhest]

Necessaries:
<smile>
bonjour
s'il vous plait
merci
merci beaucoup

That will get you very far.

[MadRocketSci]

forget rosetta stone. if you want, get a basic phrase book

years ago, i concluded that is is possible to travel around europe without really needing to say much more than hello, thank you, coffee, bathroom. Nowadays, with a bankcard, GPS and smartphone who needs to talk? Their english will be better than your french, believe me.

That said, as others have mentioned, trying to speak something and a smile go a long way. get a phrase book and dont worry about it.

it's better to not have to whip out the book and say it in a way that approximates the language without having to deal with that phonetic pronounciation crap. You'll have more fun. Again, I have some old Pimsleur tapes rotting away somewhere but still can recall the basic stuff on them, and found them a natural way to actually remember the phrases. The base level intro stuff is $20...not much to lose there!

http://www.pimsleur.com/Learn-French/French-Q-S/9780743509510

[MadRocketSci]

another tip, sing your "bonjour/bonsoir" like the locals...

riding much? then you'll need "l'eau, s'il vou plais"

l'eau pronounced "low", means water.

[thwart]

Thus just relax and learn enough to tell them you don't speak french, learn enough so you feel good about yourself at least trying to speak french, and then enjoy yourself. In my experience the best way in the world to learn a language is with tapes, or now a disc, in the car. Works well. Slap the cd in the player every time you drive and go at it.

Agree. Did a couple of Michel Thomas discs before going to Italy 5 or 6 years ago and found it very helpful. Can now do it as digital download as well...

Michel had the method down. No longer around, but a master.

[dustyrider]

Sounds like most of the folks are saying what I figured out while I was there.
Do your best to be pleasant and learn a few common phrases, but don't really sweat it.

I tried my hardest to communicate in their language and was actually told by quite a few of the service professionals, watiers, bus drivers, hotel clerks, that sort, not to even bother.
I guess my French is pretty bad!

[67-59]

Fluenz has some pretty nice software, and they also offer a free online "day one in Paris" (http://www.fluenz.com/languages/french/demo/) as a way to entice you to buy more. Not lot, but it'll get you started.

[tele]

BBD
My local library has a link to an online program called Mango for Libraries--free to use with your library card. Supposed to be pretty good and the focus is on conversational language skills. If you need more info or have trouble finding it let me know.

Kevin

[Tom]

Seriously, what people said about a few basics, politeness and courtesy is right on. If you try to learn too much none of it will come for you. Be friendly, polite and make it clear you're damn glad to be there and they live in a special place. That and a few basic words to get things started. You're going to have a wonderful time and I'm insanely jealous.

[velotel]

Been just over 20 years since my first trip to France, Europe for that matter. Came (that tense because I live here now) to do an article on the oldest mountain bike race in Europe that was held down near St Tropez. Arrived not speaking a word of french. Spent a week down there, lived with the team that was preparing the race. The race director spoke american like a southern californian surfer! Nobody else spoke English, at first. Soon as I arrived I got my bike out, asked where the trail was, took off. Helped them when I could and the rest of the time rode. They were all mountain bikers. As soon as they saw I was too, all of a sudden more and more of them started speaking english, not well, but enough that we could communicate. Also started helping me learn french.

From there I went to Chamonix for a week of riding. Mostly with an australian, an englishman, an american, and a few french. Discovered that a person could live for years and years in Chamonix and never speak a word of french! Off for a week of mountain biking around Grenoble with a frenchman. He spoke a little english. Some others joined us; none spoke english. Had a great time.

The 3 weeks in France taught me that everything, I mean everything, I’d been told about the French was false. You have to speak perfect french or they ignore you. Pure bs. They’d laugh when I’d butcher some word then tell me the correct sound. They don’t like americans. Pure bs. As soon as someone discovered I was american, they’d start telling me where they’d been in the states on holiday and if I knew this and this there. Once I was at a bus stop in Grenoble studying the route map and an old lady sitting there asked me something. I told her I didn’t speak French (Pardon mais je ne parle pas le français). She immediately asked me if I was american. I said yes and with that she gave me the thumbs up with a big smile.

So forget all the negatives you might here about the french and americans. What happens to you here will be up to you. But, as a rule the french are rather enthralled with America. They also know a lot about what’s going on politically in the states. They are, in my experience, a surprisingly political people. Invariably when talking about someone, his or her politics will be mentioned, as in he or she is to the left or right basically. Like saying he or she is a democrat or a republican. Don’t be surprised if you end up in a conversation with someone, a french someone I should probably say, and you start getting asked about the election in the states. Everyone I know is stunned by what happened in the states with the candidates for the elephant side. They’re kind of like how can those people possibly be taken seriously as candidates to be president, how can anyone that dumb be in that position! Stuff like that. And know in advance that the right in France is well to the left of Obama for example. Even Marie le Pen is to the left of Obama despite her being labeled extreme right. Fact of the matter the french are rather worried, rightfully in my opinion but then I’m way to the left, about the republicans.

At any rate you could easily enough end up being asked about the politics in the states because people here are seriously interested. If you are, you might enjoy yourself.

Okay, now for some bits of advice that might help. If you want a coffee, knowing immediately that you’re either american or english, the person could automatically assume you want an american coffee if they have it. If they don’t, which is normal, you’ll probably get a ‘café long’. If you want an espresso, ask for a ‘café serré’ or ‘un espresso’. You can say ‘Est-ce que je peux avoir un café s’il vous plait.’ Or you can say ‘Je voudrai un café s’il vous plait.’ Note here that you never want to say ‘je vous’ which is I want ; that is considered rude. You want to say ‘je voudrai’ which effectively means ‘I would like’.

For instance I could say to my girlfriend that ‘je vous toi’ (I want you) and she’d be fine with that. But with my wife I’d want to say ‘je voudrai passer le weekend avec ma copine’. If I told my wife I want (je vous) to pass the weekend with my girlfriend she’d be instantly upset because I’m stating what I want unconditionally. But if I say I’d like to spend the weekend with my girlfriend, it’s conditional and therefore she might be more open since I’ve provided her with the option of agreeing or not. For the french the use of ‘would like’ is important as it’s leaving space for all participants so to speak. I want is excessively demanding. Americans are known for being demanding and loud. Thus je voudrai is one way to avoid being a typical demanding American.

Contrary to what someone said, the french almost never use bon soir as a greeting unless it’s pretty late in the evening. It used to be that bon soir was used after noon; in Italy that is still the case though I’ve noticed that seems to be changing there too. And no one ever says bon matin (good morning); at least in my experience I have never heard anyone say that. Entering a bakery or a bar or the restaurant in your hotel it’s customary to say bon jour but not required. You’ll score points if you say that. Also on leaving say ‘au revoir’ but in the evening on leaving you say bon soir. Complicated, no? Not really, you get used to it.

The french are real big on ‘pardon’. Slip by people in a crowd and if you were french you’d be constantly saying pardon for example. Funny people. Big on being polite but, like the guy who double parks his car in front of the bar or tabac while he goes inside to drink and chat it up, saying pardon and bon jour etc. while causing some small traffic hold-up out on the street because his car is blocking one lane. The french are big on moves like that. Say something to him about his blocking traffic and he’ll look at you like you’re nuts. Or worse.

Hopefully this will help a little. If I think of anything else I’ll post it. You’ll have a great time. Or you will if you want to have a great time.

[MadRocketSci]

Seriously, what people said about a few basics, politeness and courtesy is right on. If you try to learn too much none of it will come for you. Be friendly, polite and make it clear you're damn glad to be there and they live in a special place. That and a few basic words to get things started. You're going to have a wonderful time and I'm insanely jealous.

i don't think the french superiority complex is that bad. they just want us to have some manners and not speak to them in a foreign language in their own country without even making a small attempt. They don't come over here and break out the french before the "excooose me but a where is zee how do you say...pfff...."

yes, "pffff" is pretty much a french word....

[Tom]

I'm not talking about anybody's sense of superiority - I'm talking about making it clear that it's a privilege to be allowed to visit somebody else's home.

[fiamme red]

Okay, now for some bits of advice that might help. If you want a coffee, knowing immediately that you’re either american or english, the person could automatically assume you want an american coffee if they have it. If they don’t, which is normal, you’ll probably get a ‘café long’. If you want an espresso, ask for a ‘café serré’ or ‘un espresso’. You can say ‘Est-ce que je peux avoir un café s’il vous plait.’ Or you can say ‘Je voudrai un café s’il vous plait.’ Note here that you never want to say ‘je vous’ which is I want ; that is considered rude. You want to say ‘je voudrai’ which effectively means ‘I would like’.

For instance I could say to my girlfriend that ‘je vous toi’ (I want you) and she’d be fine with that. But with my wife I’d want to say ‘je voudrai passer le weekend avec ma copine’. If I told my wife I want (je vous) to pass the weekend with my girlfriend she’d be instantly upset because I’m stating what I want unconditionally. But if I say I’d like to spend the weekend with my girlfriend, it’s conditional and therefore she might be more open since I’ve provided her with the option of agreeing or not. For the french the use of ‘would like’ is important as it’s leaving space for all participants so to speak. I want is excessively demanding. Americans are known for being demanding and loud. Thus je voudrai is one way to avoid being a typical demanding American.

Contrary to what someone said, the french almost never use bon soir as a greeting unless it’s pretty late in the evening. It used to be that bon soir was used after noon; in Italy that is still the case though I’ve noticed that seems to be changing there too. And no one ever says bon matin (good morning); at least in my experience I have never heard anyone say that. Entering a bakery or a bar or the restaurant in your hotel it’s customary to say bon jour but not required. You’ll score points if you say that. Also on leaving say ‘au revoir’ but in the evening on leaving you say bon soir. Complicated, no? Not really, you get used to it.

The french are real big on ‘pardon’. Slip by people in a crowd and if you were french you’d be constantly saying pardon for example. Funny people. Big on being polite but, like the guy who double parks his car in front of the bar or tabac while he goes inside to drink and chat it up, saying pardon and bon jour etc. while causing some small traffic hold-up out on the street because his car is blocking one lane. The french are big on moves like that. Say something to him about his blocking traffic and he’ll look at you like you’re nuts. Or worse.

Hopefully this will help a little. If I think of anything else I’ll post it. You’ll have a great time. Or you will if you want to have a great time.Great post, velotel.

I can read French with the assistance of a dictionary, but have never tried to speak it. Pardonnez-moi, but the forms are spelled "je veux" (present) and "je voudrais" (conditional). :)

[velotel]

Great post, velotel.

I can read French with the assistance of a dictionary, but have never tried to speak it. Pardonnez-moi, but the forms are spelled "je veux" (present) and "je voudrais" (conditional). :)

Vous avez raison. J’ai changé trop fréquemment entre les claviers anglais et français et je suis devenu un peu perdu. Je dis toujours qu’il y a deux langues français, un écrit et un oral et il n’y a aucun lien entre le deux. Les français sont toujours d’accord avec moi. Merci pour le correction.

[mistermo]

They also know a lot about what’s going on politically in the states. They are, in my experience, a surprisingly political people....

At any rate you could easily enough end up being asked about the politics in the states because people here are seriously interested. If you are, you might enjoy yourself.

My experience exactly. My 86yr old, Parisian, mother in law is visiting right now and knows more about American politics than most Americans. The primary topic at each dinner is the US and French elections. In France, religion and politics don't mix. Here, each state of the union ends with "God Bless America". [cue Ben Folds "All You Can Eat"]

Besides politics, I'm told that the French have three primary topics of conversation: Their vacations (holidays), food, and cinema. Apart from the world cup, sports conversation doesn't take place much. My french in-laws have told me that cycling is a "blue collar" sport in France, like Nascar. Maybe velotel can confirm.

[MadRocketSci]

I'm not talking about anybody's sense of superiority - I'm talking about making it clear that it's a privilege to be allowed to visit somebody else's home.

well..imo that takes it to the territory of sucking up and i personally don't think that's necessary or expected, unless you are actually going to someone's house. The whole speaking american right off the bat is arrogant, just don't do that, be nice, don't be too boisterous in public, everything's fine.

The other thing that is slightly offensive to romance countries is wearing shorts and flip flops when it's not even that hot. Considered a bit immodest.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I won't have to buy any program. I will end up learning it all right in this thread! :D

BBD

[maunahaole]

We went to Paris 10 years ago. Most of what you have been told is correct. I'm pretty good with languages and was negotiating menus and signage pretty well by the end of the week. I wish that I had some basics on simple phrases. Pronouncing the words is the difficult part for me and that is where you need the practice - the vocabulary is not difficult. Like has been said - trying to do it, goes a long way. They will know quickly that it is not your first language and often times notice that you are struggling and take over in english if they see you fumbling too much. Many folks will want to engage you in conversation just to work on their skills and sort out nitpicky questions about words and pronunciation (keep in mind most folks learned british english, not american english). For the most part, the french are super cool and friendly...my stereotypes were blown within hours of arrival, they just want you to respect their frenchness.

[Louis]

"Darling, je t'aime"

or

"Darling, apprends moi l'amour"

or anything along those lines. But not to a sweaty farmer.

[MadRocketSci]

oops

[Louis]

French humor is an acquired taste. :)

not french, but still funny...

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[MadRocketSci]

not french, but still funny...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WYVUNY6z6E

[572cv]

BBD, Velotel is right on regarding French attitudes. What we have found on our trips there is that respect for people and culture is really important. You get a long way if you are not rude, or perceived as rude. 'Pardon' is an important word. It helps to understand the culture. It is a problem that the French look like Americans sort of, and you can easily think the cultures are close, just a different language. Not so! I found this book to be entertaining and useful in helping me to understand why things work the way they do:

http://www.amazon.com/Sixty-Million-Frenchmen-Cant-Wrong/dp/1402200455

A most useful thing is to understand the difference in the perception of the provenance of stores, big and small. Places of business are not, as they are here, public places one can just walk into and wander about anonymously. Back in the day, they were businesses on the side of someone's house or something, so the customer was going into someone's home. That is how it is perceived to this day. Therefore, the custom is to politely greet the proprietor, as you enter. Any place at all, although the supermarche may or may not have a greeter. If you do this, and a simple "bonjour madame or monsieur" will do, you are greeted back, and you are off to a good start. If not, no service may be your reward, unless they understand quickly that you don't get it... That simple distinction has made a world of difference for me.

May you have a glorious trip, or as they don't quite say in French, 'Bon Fromage!' :p

[velotel]

Besides politics, I'm told that the French have three primary topics of conversation: Their vacations (holidays), food, and cinema. Apart from the world cup, sports conversation doesn't take place much. My french in-laws have told me that cycling is a "blue collar" sport in France, like Nascar. Maybe velotel can confirm.

Besides politics, I'm told that the French have three primary topics of conversation: Their vacations (holidays), food, and cinema. Apart from the world cup, sports conversation doesn't take place much. My french in-laws have told me that cycling is a "blue collar" sport in France, like Nascar. Maybe velotel can confirm.

Only time I hear about holidays is when they've returned from one. Food, always when they're eating. The french do love food, and wine. Cinema, in my experience never. Not once. Sports, depends on the people. I started to write that your in-laws must be upper class Parisians then noticed you said they're from Paris. Have to be wealthy, I'd say even old time wealth, to have referred to cycling as a 'blue collar' sport, which in french they would have said a sport for ouvriers, factory workers in effect.

In my experience cycling is anything but a 'blue collar' sport. Too expensive for a lot of workers plus they're working so much they don't have much time for cycling. Maybe, probably used to be but the world has changed. One friend who is an avid cyclist is a semi-retired pharmacist, owns one pharmacy plus a lab plus a vacation chalet in les 3 Vallées ski area plus a vacation home (apparently a really nice old place totally redone) in Marrakech plus his regular home. He's a millionaire, french style, not american. Another was CEO of some international company, now retired, vacation home in Brittany, massive wine cellar, millionaire french style. Another owned a few pharmacies, vacation home in the south, another in Morocco, millionaire french style. Another owns a thriving business and still mostly runs it even though he's retired, probably a millionaire. I could go on.

In one sense I suppose they are blue collar because they all had nothing and made what they gained on their own through hard work. Like Joe the mason, not even a high school education, realized he could run a company better than his boss, did it, retired now a millionaire french style. At heart still rather an ouvrier despite his Porche in the garage and his appreciation of really fine watches.

Blue collar sport, maybe but not in my limited experience. Far from it.

[MadRocketSci]

the french national sport is people watching (and I presume internally judging everything they can from your appearance :)).

regarding political discussion, when you eat or drink cafe for 2-3 hours at a time you gotta find something to talk about besides the weather and who went home on Idol last night...the boosh years were fun times...

[maunahaole]

And...if you want the good baguettes, you have to get to the bakery early. Pretty much everyone has an opinion about which bread is better, getting an opinion about the good baker is a nice ice breaker and shows that you are taking in the local culture. The big plus is that the price is regulated, so you can get killer bread for amazingly little money. Find the good local market place street and stop and the shops and put your grub together for the day. Savor the options, the french love their food, even if it is the simple stuff, and it shows in the quality of the offerings by the small merchants. The morning market stroll is one of the most fun things about being there.

[Liv2RideHard]

In the past we have found as long as you try and give it your best shot they understand. Just focus on the basics man. Be able to order grub, espresso etc. Just the basics. Most folks will speak some english esp the young people. Dont stress about it too much man. Enjoy this time planning and looking forward to your trip. Cheers.

[witcombusa]

"We are from France"

[biker72]

Get a French girlfriend.....:)

[djg]

Just enough to get around? A phrase book, plus cable tv or n-flix? You won't learn a language between now and then, unless you're both way talented and entirely immersed in the task. But the phrase book can give you some handy tools, and a bunch of TV or movies can give you some experience hearing the language, which is pretty different from reading it.

The Department of Agriculture might be a place to check for a reasonably priced course -- they have a surprising range of things in their graduate school.

My first trip to France -- for a college program -- was back in 1980. Most people didn't speak English, and some of those who did chose not to. On my last trip, in Paris at least, I found many, many more people with a bit of English and an almost cheerful willingness to trot it out. I found that oddly depressing, but you might get around fine with a smattering.

[djg]

"Darling, je t'aime"

. . . . But not to a sweaty farmer.

Not cool Louis. You said you wouldn't judge.