Beater Bike or Power Meter?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

If you could choose between owning a beater bike for use on the trainer, crappy weather, travel, etc., and owning one nice bike with a powermeter, which would you choose?

Rather than swap out my beater frame for a better fitting beater frame (as previously posted here), I'm thinking of selling the bike and using the fund to buy a PowerTap. One less bike (sad), but I would have power data to guide my training (happy).

Thoughts? Are trainers really that hard on carbon frames?

[Andrewlcox]

If you are serious about your training and have come to the level of competition that you could benefit from precise data acquisition to improve your power output, go for the power meter. If you think you will "play" with it for a week and give up on it like a fad you might consider the beater bike.

I wanted a new data acquisition system for my racing kart but realized it won't make me a faster driver until I get at least 1000 laps in at the track. I'm just not at the level of competition to benefit yet. I know, apples and oranges but similar IMO.

[MattTuck]

How many bikes do you have? would your training be hampered by not having a beater bike?

We had elite cyclists way before power meters. So, my view (outside of professional and elite racers) would be that a power meter is not really necessary. If you really think the power meter is going to help you, and maybe provide more motivation, focus on training, you just like gadgets and information, etc. go for it...

If you have a lot of history utilizing heart rate data for your training, that might be a good indicator of how well you'd utilize the power meter for training purposes.

[Likes2ridefar]

If you could choose between owning a beater bike for use on the trainer, crappy weather, travel, etc., and owning one nice bike with a powermeter, which would you choose?

Rather than swap out my beater frame for a better fitting beater frame (as previously posted here), I'm thinking of selling the bike and using the fund to buy a PowerTap. One less bike (sad), but I would have power data to guide my training (happy).

Thoughts? Are trainers really that hard on carbon frames?

why would a trainer do anything to a carbon frame? I know plenty of people that ride top of the line carbon road bikes on trainers all winter...and even through the summer when they have long work hours.

A powermeter can be a great utility if you learn how to use it properly. But it might just be a number.

I used one for a few years and finally decided I don't really benefit from it. It was just a number for me in the end and I find I actually train better going by perceived effort.

[45K10]

to paraphrase Bike Snob:

" an amateur cyclist using a power-meter is like hiring an accountant to tell you how poor you are"

[Likes2ridefar]

to paraphrase Bike Snob:

" an amateur cyclist using a power-meter is like hiring an accountant to tell you how poor you are"

can't say I agree with that but I figure he's just trying to get a rise out of people!

[AngryScientist]

depends on what you will use the data for, as the others have mentioned. there are some excellent training plans out there that utilize power data as an input.

are you training for anything in particular, or just to get "better". i think a powermeter is likely overkill unless you have specific goals in mind.

[keevon]

Beater bike, all the way.

You become a better rider through experience, not numbers. Ride more often, ride in crappy weather, ride with more experienced people, pay attention in races, and learn how to tune in to your body.

That last point - paying attention to how you feel - will give you all the information you need about what effort level you should be at.

[firerescuefin]

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1934030554

Read it...before you buy a power meter. You should have a purpose and a plan if your going to spend the money. Either the book (and what it takes to get the most out or your powermeter) will reasonate with you or it won't. After reading through it, I think it will help you with your decision.

I agree with Nick's (angryS) sentiment above.

[firerescuefin]

Beater bike, all the way.

You become a better rider through experience, not numbers. Ride more often, ride in crappy weather, ride with more experienced people, pay attention in races, and learn how to tune in to your body.

That last point - paying attention to how you feel - will give you all the information you need about what effort level you should be at.

Ever ride/train seriously with a power meter? BTW, some good points above.

[Likes2ridefar]

i have a copy of that book if you end up getting one. free.

[Nooch]

I vote for power meter.

I find that training with power allows me to get the most out of my workouts by being able to focus on intervals based on specific numbers. HR has too many variables associated with it, power is accurate to what you're putting into the pedals. by being able to focus on those zones, you can get the most out of your time on the bike and find marked improvements..

[Likes2ridefar]

Ever ride/train seriously with a power meter? BTW, some good points above.

I both agree and disagree with his comments. (not yours, the one you were replying to)

i think training with a power meter initially will enable you to become better in tune with your body.

and if you are trying to make yourself faster and don't really know what sort of effort is necessary there is really nothing better than working with a power meter. doing 20 to 60 minute threshold intervals is an amazing way to get faster. and you simply can't do it as accurately with any other device or perceived effort.

[laupsi]

I both agree and disagree with his comments. (not yours, the one you were replying to)

i think training with a power meter initially will enable you to become better in tune with your body.

and if you are trying to make yourself faster and don't really know what sort of effort is necessary there is really nothing better than working with a power meter. doing 20 to 60 minute threshold intervals is an amazing way to get faster. and you simply can't do it as accurately with any other device or perceived effort.

stating the complete obvious, training to meet power numbers will become counter productive. power numbers tell a tale after the fact, proper training.

[Likes2ridefar]

stating the complete obvious, training to meet power numbers will become counter productive. power numbers tell a tale after the fact, proper training.

I guess I don't really understand this.

[firerescuefin]

I both agree and disagree with his comments. (not yours, the one you were replying to)

i think training with a power meter initially will enable you to become better in tune with your body.

and if you are trying to make yourself faster and don't really know what sort of effort is necessary there is really nothing better than working with a power meter. doing 20 to 60 minute threshold intervals is an amazing way to get faster. and you simply can't do it as accurately with any other device or perceived effort.

I know how serious you are about your racing...and, I agree wholeheartedly with you about having a power meter. When training, I use it religously....but some people become slaves to their meters and can't function without them and lose all level of intuitiveness with regard to their bodies. That's why I would discount Keevon's post.

[dogdriver]

If you go the power meter route, how about a used, wired PowerTap? They're not too expensive, and you could have the beater and the electro-data-doohickey...

[firerescuefin]

I guess I don't really understand this.

+1...they're telling you real time numbers across multiple fields. FWIW, most that lecture on powermeters have never ridden with them.

[thenewguy11]

I'll put in a vote for a powermeter as well combined with a plan (both long term and individual workouts). I don't find the powermeter all that useful on the road outside of climbs and consistently flat road where you can keep wattage in a specified range. Otherwise, the fluctuations are pretty large.

However, I do a couple of workouts a week on the trainer and find the powermeter very useful as a motivation tool. I think we can all agree that riding on a trainer is objectively awful. But if you have a workout plan (I use trainerroad.com and think its a great tool), hitting and maintaining target wattage becomes a game of sorts and helps the workout go by more quickly.

[spacemen3]

Another bicycle is always my answer. :) Why quantify something as pure as riding a bicycle? You might find the numbers demoralizing.

[laupsi]

I guess I don't really understand this.

someone is interested in getting a power meter and they are an avid cyclist. they have ridden for a while and are fairly fit, or so they think. they purchase a power meter and realize they can eek out an average of about 250 watts for an hour on their trainer. (I say trainer because it minimizes variables)

w/this information this person should not then try to go at it again to see if they can push 275 watts on their next all out effort. what they should do is put away the meter and train their weeknesses on a realistic schedule. after this training is complete this person should go back to the meter to determine if the training has paid off. mind you there are variables that will affect results but by and large this type of monitoring is what the meter is for.

if they use the meter during their training chances are they will fall into a counter productive habbit of trying to improve wattage too quickly. if on the other hand they use the meter in conjunction w/a HR monitor to not over train, ie. use it as a max not as a min, then it is being used properly providing the max is not causing them to go out of bounds for the training exercise.

[Likes2ridefar]

someone is interested in getting a power meter and they are an avid cyclist. they have ridden for a while and are fairly fit, or so they think. they purchase a power meter and realize they can eek out an average of about 250 watts for an hour on their trainer. (I say trainer because it minimizes variables)

w/this information this person should not then try to go at it again to see if they can push 275 watts on their next all out effort. what they should do is put away the meter and train their weeknesses on a realistic schedule. after this training is complete this person should go back to the meter to determine if the training has paid off. mind you there are variables that will affect results but by and large this type of monitoring is what the meter is for.

if they use the meter during their training chances are they will fall into a counter productive habbit of trying to improve wattage too quickly. if on the other hand they use the meter in conjunction w/a HR monitor to not over train, ie. use it as a max not as a min, then it is being used properly providing the max is not causing them to go out of bounds for the training exercise.

I totally disagree with this and what you are saying goes against what many people say that are significantly more trained in the coaching and use of a power meter than I am.

[firerescuefin]

Most if not all that use a power meter, use heartrate in conjunction with. Once again..some good points Laupsi, but also a lot of generalizations IMO. That's why I recommended the book. A lot of people don't train right with power. It's a very good read.

Added: If you're going to purchase a powermeter, train with a great/good coach for a couple of seasons. That is great knowledge to add to your tool box, and will give you the tools to build some good training plans on your own. Kind of like hiring a good personal trainer.

someone is interested in getting a power meter and they are an avid cyclist. they have ridden for a while and are fairly fit, or so they think. they purchase a power meter and realize they can eek out an average of about 250 watts for an hour on their trainer. (I say trainer because it minimizes variables)

w/this information this person should not then try to go at it again to see if they can push 275 watts on their next all out effort. what they should do is put away the meter and train their weeknesses on a realistic schedule. after this training is complete this person should go back to the meter to determine if the training has paid off. mind you there are variables that will affect results but by and large this type of monitoring is what the meter is for.

if they use the meter during their training chances are they will fall into a counter productive habbit of trying to improve wattage too quickly. if on the other hand they use the meter in conjunction w/a HR monitor to not over train, ie. use it as a max not as a min, then it is being used properly providing the max is not causing them to go out of bounds for the training exercise.

[laupsi]

Most if not all that use a power meter, use heartrate in conjunction with. Once again..some good points Laupsi, but also a lot of generalizations IMO. That's why I recommended the book. A lot of people don't train right with power. It's a very good read.

Added: If you're going to purchase a powermeter, train with a great/good coach for a couple of seasons. That is great knowledge to add to your tool box, and will give you the tools to build some good training plans on your own. Kind of like hiring a good personal trainer.

+1, thanks for the clarification :)

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Lots of good points in here. I'll add some context to my decision-making:
1. I have 3 bikes right now: a nice race bike, my beater bike, and a mountain bike.
2. One of my major limiters is time (isn't that everyone's?). My primary interest in the power meter is making more efficient use of that time. Logging mega hours on the bike simply isn't realistic (my weekday rides are usually capped at 45 minutes).
3. I benefit from having discreet targets to keep me motivated (on hard days) and prevent me from overworking (on easy days).
4. I don't plan to race with power, as I don't find those kinds of metrics helpful except in TT, and I'd rather spring for a PT on my training wheelset than my racing one (two PTs being a non-starter in my house).
5. I'm a sucker for riding nice bikes, so I may lack the willpower to take out my beater bike every time it rains in New England (which is a lot). This is my first year with said nice bike, so that is TBD.

[Likes2ridefar]

Lots of good points in here. I'll add some context to my decision-making:
1. I have 3 bikes right now: a nice race bike, my beater bike, and a mountain bike.
2. One of my major limiters is time (isn't that everyone's?). My primary interest in the power meter is making more efficient use of that time. Logging mega hours on the bike simply isn't realistic (my weekday rides are usually capped at 45 minutes).
3. I benefit from having discreet targets to keep me motivated (on hard days) and prevent me from overworking (on easy days).
4. I don't plan to race with power, as I don't find those kinds of metrics helpful except in TT, and I'd rather spring for a PT on my training wheelset than my racing one (two PTs being a non-starter in my house).
5. I'm a sucker for riding nice bikes, so I may lack the willpower to take out my beater bike every time it rains in New England (which is a lot). This is my first year with said nice bike, so that is TBD.

number 2 and 3 make a lot of sense to try a power meter. worst case scenario is you lose a few hundred dollars after a year and pass it on to someone else.

[laupsi]

I totally disagree with this and what you are saying goes against what many people say that are significantly more trained in the coaching and use of a power meter than I am.

how much can you raise your wattage? if you're honest w/yourself you will see it's very, very little percentage wise if at all. I say if at all because your power will fluctuate even if you ride every day. some days/weeks it will spike only to settle back a bit w/out showing obvious signs. over the long term yes it will improve, however slightly but will eventuall plateau.

this said, what's the point of constantly riding w/the meter? are you not capable of knowing yourself well enough that you need this number to indicate your effort?

[Likes2ridefar]

w/this information this person should not then try to go at it again to see if they can push 275 watts on their next all out effort. what they should do is put away the meter and train their weeknesses on a realistic schedule. after this training is complete this person should go back to the meter to determine if the training has paid off. mind you there are variables that will affect results but by and large this type of monitoring is what the meter is for.

if they use the meter during their training chances are they will fall into a counter productive habbit of trying to improve wattage too quickly. if on the other hand they use the meter in conjunction w/a HR monitor to not over train, ie. use it as a max not as a min, then it is being used properly providing the max is not causing them to go out of bounds for the training exercise.

The whole point of the powermeter for threshold training is to find what you are capable of doing over an hour. and with that number you base your training so for something like a 2x20' interval you try to target near your threshold for that given time period.

Eventually if you are doing things right and you haven't reached your genetic potential you will find that 20' interval is easier at your known threshold. so you test again and most likely it'll be a little higher. so now you start training at that number. rinse, repeat.

i've never heard anyone recommend a guy with a 200w threshold to go out and ride for an hour at 250w....

[Likes2ridefar]

how much can you raise your wattage? if you're honest w/yourself you will see it's very, very little percentage wise if at all. I say if at all because your power will fluctuate even if you ride every day. some days/weeks it will spike only to settle back a bit w/out showing obvious signs. over the long term yes it will improve, however slightly but will eventuall plateau.

this said, what's the point of constantly riding w/the meter? are you not capable of knowing yourself well enough that you need this number to indicate your effort?

I've raised mine a huge amount over the last 3 years. inititally I was tested at 328w for an hour. now i can hold nearly 400w.

[firerescuefin]

I've raised mine a huge amount over the last 3 years. inititally I was tested at 328w for an hour. now i can hold nearly 400w.

Yikes...:help:

That's a lot of time and dedication....and that's why your a pro.:cool:

[Likes2ridefar]

Yikes...:help:

That's a lot of time and dedication....and that's why your a pro.:cool:

more hours than I care to admit:) i'm lucky I have a wife who fully supports my efforts and even encourages it.

[45K10]

I've raised mine a huge amount over the last 3 years. inititally I was tested at 328w for an hour. now i can hold nearly 400w.

400w for an hour isn't that euro-pro power? How much do you weigh?

[Likes2ridefar]

i'm about 155 when training and get near 150 for important stage races.

i do well in UCI pro races where climbing is involved and this year am hoping to win a few if I can manage to finish them without crashing or getting flats or who knows what else! last year it was a stomach bug from the wonderful food or water in Indonesia:banana:

[laupsi]

I've raised mine a huge amount over the last 3 years. inititally I was tested at 328w for an hour. now i can hold nearly 400w.

indeed a pro you are, what's your name I want to follow you on the net?

on a serious side, don't confuse going faster w/more wattage. if you say lose 10 lbs and you weigh 170 lbs that's almost a 6% gain in your power to weight ratio which will result in faster times but no change in wattage.

[Likes2ridefar]

indeed a pro you are, what's your name I want to follow you on the net?

on a serious side, don't confuse going faster w/more wattage. if you say lose 10 lbs and you weigh 170 lbs that's almost a 6% gain in your power to weight ratio which will result in faster times but no change in wattage.

this is my team site (http://www.ccncyclingteam.com/) and i'm the first guy listed on the team roster.

we need more followers as the team is new this year as well...at least this is the first UCI continental year for the team. follow us on facebook too:)

i'm neo-pro this year and am an old fart (35) in the pro cycling world.

[Likes2ridefar]

indeed a pro you are, what's your name I want to follow you on the net?

on a serious side, don't confuse going faster w/more wattage. if you say lose 10 lbs and you weigh 170 lbs that's almost a 6% gain in your power to weight ratio which will result in faster times but no change in wattage.

i lost about 8 pounds since that first testing. but on a flat TT you will be going faster regardless of your weight if you are producing more power.

[45K10]

this is my team site (http://www.ccncyclingteam.com/) and i'm the first guy listed on the team roster.

we need more followers as the team is new this year as well...at least this is the first UCI continental year for the team. follow us on facebook too:)

i'm neo-pro this year and am an old fart (35) in the pro cycling world.

That's cool
Good luck man

[laupsi]

That's cool
Good luck man

indeed good luck, go get it! and yes I will keep your travails in mind.

understand my advice is pertient for amatuers; 99% of us who will never acheive wattage growths you have experienced.

[MattTuck]

indeed a pro you are, what's your name I want to follow you on the net?

on a serious side, don't confuse going faster w/more wattage. if you say lose 10 lbs and you weigh 170 lbs that's almost a 6% gain in your power to weight ratio which will result in faster times but no change in wattage.

Assuming that your power stays the same. If you are going from being unfit to fit while you lose weight, you may gain power as you lose weight. If you are starting from a pretty fit base, and you lose weight, you may lose muscle mass too which could decrease power. Your power/weight ratio may or may not increase much.

[deechee]

Another vote for Hunter Allen's book. If you want to read from the comfort of your desk right now, join the wattage google groups (http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/topics?pli=1). Allen makes a lot of posts, and you can learn a lot (as well as read some earlier studies about training with power).

I'm no pro, and agree you can get obsessed with power but think if you're limited on a time, it will be a much better investment than a beater. That said, I don't own a beater only because I ride a bixi (ride-share in Montreal).

The 2x20 is not the only workout out there. My powermeter helped me learn that sometimes I was going too easy on my rest days. I've also learned I go too hard on climbs (above threshold), how much positioning affects power output (I trained more on my tri bike up until recently), better pacing for 90km (1/2 IM), how to not feel demotivated when going into headwinds etc.

But most of all, I love that if I know I only have an hour, I can hit my FTP and just go for it. Its a bit like digital camera. You get the instant feedback you never knew before. You're not anywhere near the numbers you should be? Take a rest. You feel exhausted but do the workout and are hitting them? It feels so good once you finish. For me its motivating and even though I'm training a lot less than in the past, I think the powermeter has helped me keep my fitness with less time ; which results in a better balance of life and training.

[laupsi]

Assuming that your power stays the same. If you are going from being unfit to fit while you lose weight, you may gain power as you lose weight. If you are starting from a pretty fit base, and you lose weight, you may lose muscle mass too which could decrease power. Your power/weight ratio may or may not increase much.

true, but all things staying the same, dropping weight will increase your power/weight ratio w/out increasing your wattage. having trained cyclists and tri folks this was the most common way I observed initial speed improvements. most cyclists don't lose muscle mass if they are training, they gain it.

[Likes2ridefar]

true, but all things staying the same, dropping weight will increase your power/weight ratio w/out increasing your wattage. having trained cyclists and tri folks this was the most common way I observed initial speed improvements. most cyclists don't lose muscle mass if they are training, they gain it.

I guess it seems i'm becoming an exception, but i lost muscle mass. I do assume I also gained some in my legs. I had upper body mass that's been slowly disappearing over the past 3 years to the point now I almost look like a weight weenie scrawny climber in the upper body:)

[laupsi]

I guess it seems i'm becoming an exception, but i lost muscle mass. I do assume I also gained some in my legs. I had upper body mass that's been slowly disappearing over the past 3 years to the point now I almost look like a weight weenie scrawny climber in the upper body:)

you don't count! :)

[coylifut]

My experience with a PM is similar to that of likes2ridefar. i used one for several years, but not anymore. the years spent with one was very valuable.

with your limited time, and if it's available in your area, you'd be better off attending structured training classes conducted on the computrainer once or 2x per week. they are usually one hour long. after your initial testing and levels are determined, the trainer structures the sessions to bring up your power over the next 10 weeks. structure is the key word here. of course this assumes the trainer is educated and knowledgeable. do a session and then decide if you want a pm. at the very least, you'll have a far better understanding on how to use it.

[John H.]

Why not do both? You could rig up a trainer bike from junk- does not need brakes, ft der. good tires or wheels, even good parts for that matter. Just needs to work and have proper contact points.
Also- get a quarq instead of a powertap. You can easily switch these form bike to bike if thaqt is what you are worried about. They really don't cost much more than a powertap. It it will save you money and hassle in the future. FYI- most of the used powertaps out there are being sold by prople who upgraded to a quarq.

[Likes2ridefar]

Computrainer is great.

Definitely agree quarq vs powertap. I used both and strongly prefer the quarq.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'd love to do both, and I would prefer a Quarq to a PT. However, doing both would have me sleeping in the garage for a month (not even the couch). I think this needs to be a no-net-loss kind of deal. If I were to sell the bike, the proceeds would dictate whether I get a PT or a Quarq. My preference is for the latter, but only if the economics work out.

[Likes2ridefar]

when i decided I was not going to use power any longer I sold mine on this forum for I think 1100 or 1300...forget now. but they can be had for a decent deal if you dig around. I've also seen online shops with blanket sales of 10 and even up to 25% off the catalog so you may get lucky.

i scored mine for $1347.50 through that deal from some online site.

[tannhauser]

I didn't read the thread, but both.

Trainers are hard on bbs ime.