Drug testing at NY Gran Fondo

[fiamme red]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11664/Drug-testing-for-Gran-Fondo-New-York.aspx

The ruling closes the door for participation by riders such as Jan Ullrich, who rode Gran Fondo Miami on November 20th. Since then he was given a two year ban by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in connection to his involvement in Operacion Puerto.

[jimdohertyjim]

Are grand fondos even a USAC sanctioned event?

I'm sure the $10,000 could be used better else where.

[fiamme red]

Are grand fondos even a USAC sanctioned event?I don't know, but in my mind they're no different from any organized century. Should Barry Bonds not be allowed to ride El Tour de Tucson? :rolleyes:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azstarnet.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/21/d2199de0-12fa-11e1-b0a3-001cc4c03286/4ec8288b622cb.image.jpg

[echappist]

I don't know, but in my mind they're no different from any organized century. Should Barry Bonds not be allowed to ride El Tour de Tucson? :rolleyes:


uh-oh, better not let the organizers hear that;)

just absolutely ridiculous

[1centaur]

While I understand the instinct to nail the clueless arrogant types who might dope to win a bike at a Gran Fondo, I think the effort will backfire. What is a nascent attempt to bring a big fun event to America suddenly becomes a finger pointing exercise where you have to make the cut in order to be deemed worthy of a doping test (and even that has to be clarified endlessly - see the comments on the posted thread). Hey, if you burn up the KOM and then ease up in the last 100 yards and gift the win does that mean you're a doper who doesn't want to get caught? Are the top 10 all likely dopers but only a couple of them tested? If you're fast but not an arrogant masters doper and happen to win, do you have to worry about everything you ingested? False positives? Appeal? B samples? Professional handling? Anonymity of the test? The guy from the Fondo on the thread says the people who are fast already know what to avoid, and hey, don't just down supplements without knowing what's in them. Huh? Treating the top 5% at the NY GF like world weary Euro dopers seems a little judgmental and dismissive. Meanwhile, the mid-pack riders don't feel as much like part of the party and more like pack fill being taken advantage of by maybe dopers.

How much better to live and let live and enjoy Gran Fondos for a few years and see how they develop. Is Danilo di Luca really going to come over and exploit the masses for a Pinarello? Is handing a bike to a 45-year-old 'roid rage loser so much worse than blowing up the whole spirit of the thing? Is GF NY saying there aren't enough straight shooters in the US to have a good shot at winning the prizes? This all feels very small town committee group think to me.

[firerescuefin]

While I understand the instinct to nail the clueless arrogant types who might dope to win a bike at a Gran Fondo, I think the effort will backfire. What is a nascent attempt to bring a big fun event to America suddenly becomes a finger pointing exercise where you have to make the cut in order to be deemed worthy of a doping test (and even that has to be clarified endlessly - see the comments on the posted thread). Hey, if you burn up the KOM and then ease up in the last 100 yards and gift the win does that mean you're a doper who doesn't want to get caught? Are the top 10 all likely dopers but only a couple of them tested? If you're fast but not an arrogant masters doper and happen to win, do you have to worry about everything you ingested? False positives? Appeal? B samples? Professional handling? Anonymity of the test? The guy from the Fondo on the thread says the people who are fast already know what to avoid, and hey, don't just down supplements without knowing what's in them. Huh? Treating the top 5% at the NY GF like world weary Euro dopers seems a little judgmental and dismissive. Meanwhile, the mid-pack riders don't feel as much like part of the party and more like pack fill being taken advantage of by maybe dopers.

How much better to live and let live and enjoy Gran Fondos for a few years and see how they develop. Is Danilo di Luca really going to come over and exploit the masses for a Pinarello? Is handing a bike to a 45-year-old 'roid rage loser so much worse than blowing up the whole spirit of the thing? Is GF NY saying there aren't enough straight shooters in the US to have a good shot at winning the prizes? This all feels very small town committee group think to me.

Great Post!

[54ny77]

barry bonds grew boobies.

and that's all i have to say about that.

[GuyGadois]

barry bonds grew boobies.

and that's all i have to say about that.

I think he's sporting a Bro.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . if this is really hilarious or just really pitiful.

BBD

[MattTuck]

I'm going to set up a control tent at the top of a local strava climb. Demand people deposit A and B samples before continuing on their ride. ;)

[FlashUNC]

Considering what's been going in Masters racing, for example, I'm now of the mind that people will dope for all sorts of seemingly stupid reasons.

[peanutgallery]

I think the drug testing might actually be a scam to lend more "prestige" to the event.

"Dropped a couple hundy on a faux race that is so awesome that I was tested for performance enhancing drugs. just like the Tour". I can hear it now

[spartanKid]

I don't know, but in my mind they're no different from any organized century. Should Barry Bonds not be allowed to ride El Tour de Tucson? :rolleyes:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azstarnet.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/21/d2199de0-12fa-11e1-b0a3-001cc4c03286/4ec8288b622cb.image.jpg

Bonds never actually failed a drug test, if I remember correctly.

[UKBROOKLYN]

They have to be out of their minds.. This is only the second year of Gran Fondo NY, and while I applaud the idea.. it does seem a shame that Gran Fondo NY is not a home grown event. Most of the guys I ride with think its a bit of a stretch to be charged 240 bucks to ride the same route we ride almost every weekend for free.. And to add insult to injury they want to drug test us for trying to beat our buddies up a couple o local hills.. come on... again we do this for free every weekend.. This is purely hype to try and say GFNY is some sort of world class event.

Yesterday I did 70 miles on those local roads and a couple of the "Timed Climbs" Stopped for a veggie roll in Nyack and rolled back to town with the vintage (and I am talking about the lads not the bikes here) riders in time for tea.

Yeah they have nice jerseys.. cool caps.. I spent 18 dollars yesterday and no one tested my pee...

[wai2fast]

Are gran fondos even races? I understand there are timed climbs here and there, but paying a couple hundred dollars to ride the same course we ride for free every weekend is a joke.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Here are the two that I will pay for this year

http://granfondonj.com/ $100

I watched the video on their site and I want to do that one.

http://nycc.org/eny NY Cycle Club $40

This is our club annual ride.. I did it last year.. basically the same route as GFNY with a big feed at the end..

No Doping

[BobbyJones]

Until last year, I also thought the whole GranFondo thing was a bit silly (thanks to Levi's Gran Fondo), putting an Italian name on what we've been calling a Century here in the States.

Last years GFNY was an eye opener. Like most locals, I originally dismissed the ride as "another ride up to Bear Mountain". It wasn't. The route was out of the ordinary. Couple that with the rush of the crowd and road closures its easy to understand it was no easy cruise

I have gotten to know the know the organizers of GFNY (I'll be volunteering this year) and I've learned a few things about both the race format and the people.

As far as the race format, the closest thing I've been able to relate it to is a Marathon: Race it for the win, race it for your AG or just participate to test yourself in the company of an international crowd. Just like a Marathon, there's a race up front and fun in the back but at 100+ hilly miles, a challenging day for all.

Onto the organizers. Both Uli and Lidia are competitive athletes and very serious about the format. Surprisingly serious. Although GranFondo is fairly new here in the US, their goal was to bring a world class international event to the NYC area. Between the prize values, sponsorships, recognition and rider satisfaction I'd say so far, so good!

Just like the New York Marathon, most people will not by racing for an overall win- but some will be. Seeing that local Cat 4 and Masters racers are doping, imagine what some competitive international cyclists must be up to? My guess is although the press release may be a little PR spin, I get the impression that it displays a bigger commitment to a clean, fair competitive event for those who do take this race format seriously. It may not be you but plenty of people do.

All that said, looking forward to seeing some of you out on the road this year!

[Fivethumbs]

I think they should create an exemption for people who want to hit a reggae concert the night before. We just can't let Ullrich be screwing people over.

[Germany_chris]

What happens if you don't submit?
Do you get disqualified?
If I get disqualified do I get my money back?

If no one is being paid to ride this ride there is doping control why?

[BumbleBeeDave]

This.

. . . Most of the guys I ride with think its a bit of a stretch to be charged 240 bucks to ride the same route we ride almost every weekend for free.

I do also. I would be very reluctant to pay good money to do a ride on open, public roads unless the $$ go for some charity cause like MS, diabetes, etc.

For me "Grand Fondue NY" goes in the category of there's always somebody trying to find a way for you to have to pay them for something that used to be free.

The dope testing just so you can win a new bike on the local ego climb is just pathetic. My pride and honor are worth way more than that to me.

BBD

[Ginger]

barry bonds grew boobies.

and that's all i have to say about that.

Maybe he eats a lot of soy.

[Bob Ross]

http://nycc.org/eny NY Cycle Club $40

This is our club annual ride.. I did it last year.. basically the same route as GFNY with a big feed at the end..

No Doping


All the doping goes on at the Rockland Lake rest stop after the riders are all past. :beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

All the doping goes on at the Rockland Lake rest stop after the riders are all past. :beer:

. . . PBR or some similar bladder performance enhancing substances? :D

BBD

[Nooch]

the thing about GFNY, at least last year, was that riders in the top 5% (maybe 1%?) qualified for the amatuer world championships as well as the other prizes...

so with that in mind, perhaps they're trying to make sure that the riders who qualify are clean, which actually makes some ioda of sense.. might not be popular, but with that on the 'prize' list, perhaps there might be more spanish beef than we think there is..

[cfox]

...but paying a couple hundred dollars to ride the same course we ride for free every weekend is a joke.

every race, century, fondo, whatever takes place on some road that is free to use every weekend. Should all future cycling events be cancelled because, if you wait a day, you can ride on the same roads for free?

[UKBROOKLYN]

Are you saying they are putting something in the PB and J sandwiches..

A little correction GFNY is not run on open roads.. They do spend a lot of money so that the route is closed to traffic. Not enough of a bonus for me. I might do the GFNY if it was half the price. But as it stands it is more than twice the price of any of the myriad of other organized centuries in the try state area.

What is to stop me riding the course that day anyway.. ??

Oh and I have to admit they do have good looking kit.

[echappist]

They have to be out of their minds.. This is only the second year of Gran Fondo NY, and while I applaud the idea.. it does seem a shame that Gran Fondo NY is not a home grown event. Most of the guys I ride with think its a bit of a stretch to be charged 240 bucks to ride the same route we ride almost every weekend for free.. And to add insult to injury they want to drug test us for trying to beat our buddies up a couple o local hills.. come on... again we do this for free every weekend.. This is purely hype to try and say GFNY is some sort of world class event.

Yesterday I did 70 miles on those local roads and a couple of the "Timed Climbs" Stopped for a veggie roll in Nyack and rolled back to town with the vintage (and I am talking about the lads not the bikes here) riders in time for tea.

Yeah they have nice jerseys.. cool caps.. I spent 18 dollars yesterday and no one tested my pee...

+1. Nothing says poseur like calling the local climbs their translated names in Italian

I think the drug testing might actually be a scam to lend more "prestige" to the event.

"Dropped a couple hundy on a faux race that is so awesome that I was tested for performance enhancing drugs. just like the Tour". I can hear it now

Nail on the head


As far as the race format, the closest thing I've been able to relate it to is a Marathon: Race it for the win, race it for your AG or just participate to test yourself in the company of an international crowd. Just like a Marathon, there's a race up front and fun in the back but at 100+ hilly miles, a challenging day for all.

That's called a long training ride for most cat-3's.



Onto the organizers. Both Uli and Lidia are competitive athletes and very serious about the format. Surprisingly serious. Although GranFondo is fairly new here in the US, their goal was to bring a world class international event to the NYC area. Between the prize values, sponsorships, recognition and rider satisfaction I'd say so far, so good!


way too serious. It's like a local mayoral election candidate buying ad space in the NYT



Seeing that local Cat 4 and Masters racers are doping, imagine what some competitive international cyclists must be up to?

My bet is that you have no idea how many will test positive for substances banned "in-competition"

Taking pseudophed? Banned
Taking medication for ADD/ADHD? Banned
Taking a diuretic? Banned
Taking meds for hormonal replacement? Banned
Taking a supplement? Better send it in for mass-spec to make sure it doesn't contains anything banned

Racing cyclists know about this and will have the TUE for it, but most of them will not be paying this highway robbery. Instead, you'll be forcing non-racers to submit their names to some agency in order to have their names cleared. Do you really want to let other people know what you are taking just so that you can pay $240 to ride on roads that is free to use for 364 days of the year?

As someone else said, just seems like a ploy to add legitimacy to an event that is quite poseurish in the eyes of many

[echappist]

the thing about GFNY, at least last year, was that riders in the top 5% (maybe 1%?) qualified for the amatuer world championships as well as the other prizes...

so with that in mind, perhaps they're trying to make sure that the riders who qualify are clean, which actually makes some ioda of sense.. might not be popular, but with that on the 'prize' list, perhaps there might be more spanish beef than we think there is..

that's the uci gran fondo championships, not the road race championships.

[christian]

+1. Nothing says poseur like calling the local climbs their translated names in Italian

What? Pretty much all the group rides I do are named in Italian.

- Gran Fondo Fioritura Metrica
- Gran Fondo Deerfield Strada Sterrata
- Gran Fondo Mela d'Oro

I'm unfortunately going to miss the Gran Fondo de Testicoli, but I'll hope to be there in 2013.

[Nooch]

that's the uci gran fondo championships, not the road race championships.

regardless, though, since it acts as qualification for a UCI event doesn't the doping control make at least a little more sense?

serious question, do you need a USAC license or one-day license to ride GFNY? Perhaps it's built into the registration fee for a one-day if you don't have one? If that's part of it, then that opens you up to doping controls. If you're not a USAC cyclist, then I don't understand how they have the right to do the controls, the exception being my previous argument

[fiamme red]

+1. Nothing says poseur like calling the local climbs their translated names in Italian:D

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/uli-fluhme-la-fondo-parte-seconda

Plus, we can finally use a new timed climb that we already wanted to incorporate last year. It's a hidden gem in Pomona that we call "Colle Formaggio".

The "Colle Formaggio" (Overlook Drive) is just a climb past a bunch of hideous McMansions, not what I'd call a "hidden gem." :rolleyes:

[fiamme red]

A little correction GFNY is not run on open roads.. They do spend a lot of money so that the route is closed to traffic. Not enough of a bonus for me. I might do the GFNY if it was half the price. But as it stands it is more than twice the price of any of the myriad of other organized centuries in the try state area.The organizer (Uli Fluhme) says that he's paying $500,000 in permit and police fees.

[echappist]

regardless, though, since it acts as qualification for a UCI event doesn't the doping control make at least a little more sense?

serious question, do you need a USAC license or one-day license to ride GFNY? Perhaps it's built into the registration fee for a one-day if you don't have one? If that's part of it, then that opens you up to doping controls. If you're not a USAC cyclist, then I don't understand how they have the right to do the controls, the exception being my previous argument

not sure about the license for GFNY, though one is required for the UCI "championship" race.

the qualification standards are a bit ridiculous:
-top25% qualifies
-you do three events on the participating tours, you qualify
-given that the GFNY sorts results as a KOM competition (i.e. overall time doesn't matter), this basically means it's a time trial rather than a bike race.

and i think i was wrong about the master's road race championships as apparently they are the same thing now somehow? This basically dilutes the value of master's rainbow stripes jersey.

To give you a sense of why it's a dilution:

My personal best up the longest KOM (and i didn't die on the ride back) would have placed me between the 22nd and 23rd out of 1200+ finishers last year. Going by those results, shiiiiiet, man, i'm top 2% in the race. Let me get a third arm so i can constantly pat myself in the back. In reality, I'm a lowly cat-4 with 3 (or maybe 5) upgrade points to my cat-3.

While many of the top-10 on that climb are all racers on a local pro-am team, the dilution starts very quickly.

Make no mistake: the inclusion of this event on the "tour" and the final "championship" event is just a way for UCI & McQuaid to make money.

[echappist]

:D

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/uli-fluhme-la-fondo-parte-seconda

Plus, we can finally use a new timed climb that we already wanted to incorporate last year. It's a hidden gem in Pomona that we call "Colle Formaggio".

The "Colle Formaggio" (Overlook Drive) is just a climb past a bunch of hideous McMansions, not what I'd call a "hidden gem." :rolleyes:

this guy must not look in the mirror much. this is his own quote from that interview

Meanwhile, the majority of Gran Fondos in the US are fancy-label Century rides. But participants are not stupid. They're not paying $200 instead of $50 just to listen to the Italian anthem, have a couple of Ferrraris at the “start” and get some Italian snack at the finish instead of a Bagel while they still have to ride in open traffic with a cue sheet.

[sg8357]

I think the drug testing might actually be a scam to lend more "prestige" to the event.[snip]

What is more PRO than peeing in a cup ?

[ergott]

I think doing a bike ride on open roads is safer than most organized rides/centuries/fondos.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I think doing a bike ride on open roads is safer than most organized rides/centuries/fondos.

Crowd of bikers equals danger at most of these things since you have no idea of the skills--or lack of them--of the other riders.

I also wondered about that "closed roads" thing. Is a cop or some course marshall going to tell me I can't ride on this road to get to work or where I ride any other day because today it's "owned" by ride organizers?

BBD

[echappist]

Crowd of bikers equals danger at most of these things since you have no idea of the skills--or lack of them--of the other riders.

I also wondered about that "closed roads" thing. Is a cop or some course marshall going to tell me I can't ride on this road to get to work or where I ride any other day because today it's "owned" by ride organizers?

BBD

apparently rolling road closures

[William]

What is more PRO than peeing in a cup ?

The Clean Bottle guy has a new job for this event....

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/n1216552007_8159.jpg





;):)

William

[UKBROOKLYN]

I think doing a bike ride on open roads is safer than most organized rides/centuries/fondos.

I don't recall hearing about crashes or injuries caused by traffic on any of the "open" road rides in recent years.

Sure it's nice not to have to share the road with weekend traffic but you are paying an extra buck for that .. is it worth more than a hundred dollars..

[UKBROOKLYN]

Fast forward to about 1min 45 or just watch the whole thing..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faYSY7hWbRY

[ergott]

I don't recall hearing about crashes or injuries caused by traffic on any of the "open" road rides in recent years.

Sure it's nice not to have to share the road with weekend traffic but you are paying an extra buck for that .. is it worth more than a hundred dollars..

I meant open to traffic. I feel much safer riding a pickup century with 6-12 of my riding buddies than any organized ride. If I do the Fondo route, I'll email a few buddies and do it some other weekend.

[UKBROOKLYN]

The routes are published on their website and you can send the link to your iPhone and follow the exact map.

[peanutgallery]

What are they worried about, if Ullrich shows up it will be something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AohpWKc36dY&feature=related

[HenryA]

I think the drug testing might actually be a scam to lend more "prestige" to the event.

"Dropped a couple hundy on a faux race that is so awesome that I was tested for performance enhancing drugs. just like the Tour". I can hear it now

Yeah this.
Poser heaven.

[HenryA]

what is more pro than peeing in a cup ?

waaahhhaaaaahhhhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BobbyJones]

Pitiful.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive

[MattTuck]

yikes. some people need to take a step back, breath deeply and ask why they do certain things. If anyone on this forum gets an 'adverse analytical finding', you'll be in trouble!

on a more humor note, my favorite comment: "Will his Strava results be vacated, also?"

[AngryScientist]

Pitiful.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive

puh-thetic.

[laupsi]

one thing is for certain, bike racing ain't like any other sport.

when I was training up to 15-20 hrs/week, understand this was over 20 years ago, I started to think I was only as good as my results; as a person mind you. I got lost in it all. never doped, too afraid and too naive I guess, but I became really, really down on myself if my performance was less than my projected expectations.

reading books on training from Greg Lemond and others I felt obligated to get results and to keep on improving providing I did the work and spent the time. I shunned my girl friend at the time, my friends and my day job at times. I became very angry at myself when I wasn't "successful". it ended up that a personal loss in my life guided me back to reality. I feel for this guy and hope others like him can manage to keep things in perspective. thankfully I was never introduced to anything artificial, I was fortunate.

[Fixed]

If anyone has ever used illegal drugs they should be banned even the recreational variety ?
If you broke the law ever what is to stop you cheating ? ban all folks with criminal records ? ..
But can't cycling and the pursuit of a healty lifestyle be a. Cure for such things ?
Too much for my hurt brain I defer to the wiser folks that run these event it is their call who they want at their party .

Just a thought ..:)



Cheers

[BobbyJones]

No, not ban all folks with criminal records. But if you choose to compete,you should abide by "The Rules of Competition" as applicable to the event you are participating in. It's that simple- no gray area there.

For all of the bs that surrounded the start of this thread, I'm glad that GFNY did the local NYC racing community a service and eliminated a doper where other, more, ahem, "real races" didn't.




If anyone has ever used illegal drugs they should be banned even the recreational variety ?
If you broke the law ever what is to stop you cheating ? ban all folks with criminal records ? ..
But can't cycling and the pursuit of a healty lifestyle be a. Cure for such things ?
Too much for my hurt brain I defer to the wiser folks that run these event it is their call who they want at their party .

Just a thought ..:)



Cheers

[harryblack]

correct, but very unsurprising AND at the very least the dude came 'clean' when popped. random piss test at Central, Prospect or Floyd would reveal a lot more too, tho' we should all get a pass for environmental weed smoke.

remember this one about the 'tainted supplements'?

http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2007/bunde-positive

"funny" how a local cyclist was "accidentally" dosed with the same steroid that many baseball players (among others) used and how many in the NYC peloton wanted to "believe" because the rider was such a "nice guy"-- just like Tugboat was nice dog!!

puh-thetic.

[echelon_john]

That's some comic genius right there. Poor Tugboat...his name keeps getting dragged into these scandals...

... how many in the NYC peloton wanted to "believe" because the rider was such a "nice guy"-- just like Tugboat was nice dog!!

[fiamme red]

Well, it seems that drug testing at GFNY wasn't as silly as I thought.

[Fixed]

No, not ban all folks with criminal records. But if you choose to compete,you should abide by "The Rules of Competition" as applicable to the event you are participating in. It's that simple- no gray area there.

For all of the bs that surrounded the start of this thread, I'm glad that GFNY did the local NYC racing community a service and eliminated a doper where other, more, ahem, "real races" didn't.

Point taken
Cheers

[redir]

Gran Fredo?

:p

[oldpotatoe]

one thing is for certain, bike racing ain't like any other sport.

when I was training up to 15-20 hrs/week, understand this was over 20 years ago, I started to think I was only as good as my results; as a person mind you. I got lost in it all. never doped, too afraid and too naive I guess, but I became really, really down on myself if my performance was less than my projected expectations.

reading books on training from Greg Lemond and others I felt obligated to get results and to keep on improving providing I did the work and spent the time. I shunned my girl friend at the time, my friends and my day job at times. I became very angry at myself when I wasn't "successful". it ended up that a personal loss in my life guided me back to reality. I feel for this guy and hope others like him can manage to keep things in perspective. thankfully I was never introduced to anything artificial, I was fortunate.

Addiction doesn't have to be 'of a substance'. I was addicted to running in the 70s..couple of posters on this forum, from their posts, sound like they are pretty committed to results and performance as well...may be addicted, not a quack, so don't really know.

But I was 'running' to run away..long story, happy ending..ride now, for fun, for mental 'stability', mechanical meditation, but not addicted to it. If I ride, great, if I don't oh well, domani.