Ignorance of certain bike shops

[fiamme red]

A friend of mine sent me this. I've omitted the names of the bike shops, but both are well-established (over 20 years in business in the NYC area) and sell high-end bikes.

Last time I went in to Bike Shop #1, there were 3 guys behind the counter, all looking at computer monitors or magazines, and nobody looked up when I approached. I asked if someone could help me, and one guy pointed to a young woman on the sales floor. I told her I wanted to buy 8 feet of brake cable housing, and she didn't know if they sold that. Guess I'd just have to buy a new bike, remove the cables and throw away the rest, right?

Just recently, my friend **** was having slipping seatpost problems on his newly repainted and rebuilt 80's Cinelli. He brought it to Bike Shop #1, and their "framebuilder" said he'd have to replace the seat tube, it had apparently "stretched out" over the years. He was going to go ahead, so asked me if I thought their builder was reputable. I asked him what size was the slipping post. Turns out the guys at Bike Shop #2, who had built it up for him, thought a Columbus SL seat tube should take a 26.8 post. He bought a 27.2, and miraculously, that stretched out seat tube was fine again.

:rolleyes: :) :p

[MattTuck]

If bike shops knew what they were talking about and were interested in teaching their customers about taking care of their bikes, we wouldn't spend so much time on here discussing wrenching/product topics.

If you have a good mechanic that knows his stuff and treats you good. Buy him a six pack, fifth, bottle, etc. of whatever he drinks.

[eddief]

went into one shop yesterday and they had none in stock. went into the next shop two blocks away and they GAVE me 10. always hit and miss and i am glad i have 3 shops within 3 miles so i can play pinball among them. mostly margins aren't high enough and management not good enough to meet all of our needs. that combination equals uneven consumer experiences at best.

[ATB24]

I've had very mixed experiences with NYC bike shops (piermont area included). I do see they have a lot of that "3 guys behind the counter" and not getting acknowledged.

[Ti Designs]

Turns out the guys at Bike Shop #2, who had built it up for him, thought a Columbus SL seat tube should take a 26.8 post.

Wait, is it silver with setback???

I have this theory that all the right bike parts exist, they're just on the wrong bikes...

[leftyfreak]

Wait, is it silver with setback???

I have this theory that all the right bike parts exist, they're just on the wrong bikes...

That's actually a serious question hidden in a joke. And I've gotta say, from working with Ti, some bike shop guys aren't ignorant!

A silver setback 26.8 post would look awfully nice on my IF...

[alancw3]

back around 2005 i walked into a bike shop in naples that was suppose to be a race oriented shop. so i wanted to buy a pair of speedplay cleats and mentioned to the only sales person there that i owned a klein. he told me that he never heard of a klein. wow! afterwards i was going to contact the owner and relate my experience, but i never did. oh and he told me that he was not familiar with speedplay cleats. go figure.

[Vinci]

When I was building my commuter bike last summer, I called around to 5 different shops in my area to try to find a rear cable hanger for my cantilever brakes. Only one shop even knew what a rear cantilever brake hanger was.

[AngryScientist]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

[christian]

Two weekends ago I went on an awesome ride in W. Mass. Unfortunately, I hit a pothole and damaged the hooks/brake surface of my rear rim. Monday am, I called my LBS, and by 11am they had ordered me a replacement Aerohead OC rim, to arrive Thursday. Thursday morning, I dropped off my tweaked wheel and $50 and on Friday afternoon I had a call that the re-build was done.

The returned the tweaked rim and suggested I lace it into a cheap hub to use as a trainer wheel. They also gave me a free bike box so I could cut it down and ship a frame to a fellow forumite.

So my bike shop rocks! Julio Bicycles - Chappaqua, NY.

(But yeah, bike shops in the City are pretty much a drag. I like Imbert, but that's about it.)

[Fixed]

A friend of mine sent me this. I've omitted the names of the bike shops, but both are well-established (over 20 years in business in the NYC area) and sell high-end bikes.

Last time I went in to Bike Shop #1, there were 3 guys behind the counter, all looking at computer monitors or magazines, and nobody looked up when I approached. I asked if someone could help me, and one guy pointed to a young woman on the sales floor. I told her I wanted to buy 8 feet of brake cable housing, and she didn't know if they sold that. Guess I'd just have to buy a new bike, remove the cables and throw away the rest, right?

Just recently, my friend **** was having slipping seatpost problems on his newly repainted and rebuilt 80's Cinelli. He brought it to Bike Shop #1, and their "framebuilder" said he'd have to replace the seat tube, it had apparently "stretched out" over the years. He was going to go ahead, so asked me if I thought their builder was reputable. I asked him what size was the slipping post. Turns out the guys at Bike Shop #2, who had built it up for him, thought a Columbus SL seat tube should take a 26.8 post. He bought a 27.2, and miraculously, that stretched out seat tube was fine again.

:rolleyes: :) :p
always thought even i could work in a lbs :eek:
cheers :)

[chwupper]

If you have a good mechanic that knows his stuff and treats you good. Buy him a six pack, fifth, bottle, etc. of whatever he drinks.

Best advice ever. Show 'em love. :beer:

[oliver1850]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

I started one a week or so ago for a shop I was impressed with. It didn't get much interest, but at least I tried.

I think these threads show the disappointment a lot of us have when we visit a bike shop. Maybe we expect too much. I shop at other retail places and am not always satisfied, but I don't usually have the let down feeling I get from most bike shop visits.

[AngryScientist]

I don't usually have the let down feeling I get from most bike shop visits.


i avoid that by not visiting any bike shops. :banana:

[leooooo]

For us, it's a hobby.
For them, it's a job.

Of course we'll feel let down more often than not.

[Bob Ross]

Last time I went in to Bike Shop #1, there were 3 guys behind the counter, all looking at computer monitors or magazines, and nobody looked up when I approached. I asked if someone could help me, and one guy pointed to a young woman on the sales floor. I told her I wanted to buy 8 feet of brake cable housing, and she didn't know if they sold that. Guess I'd just have to buy a new bike, remove the cables and throw away the rest, right?

Bike Shop #1 is right down the block from Southpaw, isn't it? :)


edit: Wait, no, I take that back: Bike Shop #1 could be almost any LBS in NYC.
If it was the shop right down the block from Southpaw the girl would have told you she didn't know if they sold brake cable housing, and then she would have told you you were an idiot for asking.

[christian]

Seriously, though, how does R&A stay in business? For 15 years, I've heard every person who rides a bicycle in NYC complain about that place.

[Ti Designs]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

Yeh, but it's killing me 'cause I can't join in...

At my shop we take turns looking stupid. I've been here the longest, so I take the most turns. Like the other day, a guy shows up in my fit area with a full suspension bike. I haven't been on a mountain bike in years, I don't ride full suspension (the feel broken to me), the only thing I know about fitting mountain bikes is that it's best done by someone who understands riding a mountain bike. The customer didn't get that. The assumption is that everybody at the shop is interchangeable, and I was just being lazy.

[Likes2ridefar]

thankfully there is marky purdy at ifixbyx in NYC. I've experienced pretty much the same at all the shops in NYC besides Signature Cycles.

one of the worst (among many just bad experiences) was a brand new build where the chain was about 3 links too long. i dropped to the small ring after picking it up only to have the chain dragging on the derailleur and nearly rubbing the chainstay.

[fourflys]

well I can only talk about what I do when I work in the shop... if I sell a bike to someone (usually a fairly new rider as I work at a national chain), I always make sure they know the basics like how to take off a wheel, adjust their saddle if they need to later (I set it for them but you know...), tell them about cable stretch (lifetime free adjsutments), etc... it's amazing what people don't know and what they're afraid to admit they don't know... I've been told I have a knack for telling people the seemingly obvious without making them feel dumb...

I'm sure all shops have their bad days but not acknowledging a customer is the death knell to a shop (any kind) for me...

[hokoman]

(But yeah, bike shops in the City are pretty much a drag. I like Imbert, but that's about it.)

totally off topic - omg. small world. i worked with imbert when the shop on 59th and west end or somewhere around there wasn't part of toga (this was 15 years ago when i was in college in the city).... i heard from marcos at champion bicycles (104 and amsterdam) that imbert opened his own shop. met all those guys racing in prospect park......

[christian]

Yeah, Imbert opened a shop called Master Bike at 77th/Amsterdam. I think it's subsequently moved to 72nd west of Broadway, but you should double-check if you're going there.

[eippo1]

Yeh, but it's killing me 'cause I can't join in...

At my shop we take turns looking stupid. I've been here the longest, so I take the most turns. Like the other day, a guy shows up in my fit area with a full suspension bike. I haven't been on a mountain bike in years, I don't ride full suspension (the feel broken to me), the only thing I know about fitting mountain bikes is that it's best done by someone who understands riding a mountain bike. The customer didn't get that. The assumption is that everybody at the shop is interchangeable, and I was just being lazy.

My favorite is when I convince a customer that they would really be better served with getting a fitting with their new bike (because I can see that their fit needs adjustments, but can't do it with a line of people waiting for help and I'm not a certified fitter) and they get upset because they have to make an appointment for a fitting.

Then we pull a fitter off the floor who will be gone for an hour while we desperately need salespeople because we are mobbed. So then people get upset that they aren't getting the attention they want. Everything is now now now, you just can't win either way.

But at least once a weekend (and usually more) I get a really fun person or couple to work with and that really makes it all worthwhile for me.

[gone]

If you have a good mechanic that knows his stuff and treats you good. Buy him a six pack, fifth, bottle, etc. of whatever he drinks.
My mechanic is typing this. I'm going to reward him with a beer later :D

[Earl Gray]

I've dealt with quite a few bike shop employees and it is clear that I'm smarter than all of them.

Matter of fact, I'm pretty much smarter than anyone that does not agree with me.

If I ran a bike shop it would be perfect. If I designed bikes they woudl be perfect. If I ran this forum it would be perfect. If I was a frame builder they would all be red and white and perfect. If, If, If, If.....

[christian]

Hey, Earl Gray, it's time to head back across the hall and update that weight loss thread. That sh*t is epic and they miss you. Besides, since you're perfect, I assume you're at 144 lbs now! :)

[fiamme red]

Bike Shop #1 is right down the block from Southpaw, isn't it? :)


edit: Wait, no, I take that back: Bike Shop #1 could be almost any LBS in NYC.
If it was the shop right down the block from Southpaw the girl would have told you she didn't know if they sold brake cable housing, and then she would have told you you were an idiot for asking.Yes, the experience sounds typical of R&A, but Bike Shop #1 is actually in Manhattan. :)

[cendres]

went into one shop yesterday and they had none in stock. went into the next shop two blocks away and they GAVE me 10. always hit and miss and i am glad i have 3 shops within 3 miles so i can play pinball among them. mostly margins aren't high enough and management not good enough to meet all of our needs. that combination equals uneven consumer experiences at best.

A bike shop that had zero zip ties on hand? How is that possible?

[Ti Designs]

I've dealt with quite a few bike shop employees and it is clear that I'm smarter than all of them.

The bike shop is a big I.Q. test, the only way to pass is to quit. The really smart ones never start working there. So what you're saying is that you're smarter than the average house plant.

[Earl Gray]

Hey, Earl Gray, it's time to head back across the hall and update that weight loss thread. That sh*t is epic and they miss you. Besides, since you're perfect, I assume you're at 144 lbs now! :)

They banned me! I guess that means I'm smarter than them too!

I guess I was too Epic for them.

P.s. 144 is only perfect if you are a midget, a thicky thick woman or a prepubescent boy. Otherwise it would be considered sickly.

[jlwdm]

I have bikes in three cities. There are poor bike shops in each city but there are a bunch of great ones so sometimes it is hard to decide which one to go to.

Jeff

[professerr]

There are three local bike shops I go to the SF Bay area. I like them all.

Sure, they get things wrong occasionally, but no more than my auto mechanic, dentist or, heck, even my doctor. They don't get all smarmy on me like a mortgage broker or car salesman (apologies to those here, who aren't that way at all). If you're a dick to them they'll act like any normal person would instead of kissing your ass. They are generally fairly knowledgeable. And I actually watched one of them recently talk some tubby guy out of some uber race bike without being the least bit condescending or snarky. I'd name them but then someone would inevitably post about some bad experience they happened to have with them.

As retail businesses get, local bike shops are about as good as it gets for me -- they tend to be fairly "real." I don't think anyone gets into the bike shop business for the glamor, money or hip lifestyle.

[cmbicycles]

I have wrenched in lbs for a dozen+ years, seldom do I get a thank you for good service, maybe I should start offering it and see what happens. But I agree with the above comment that everyone wants everything on the spot... I always like to remind people that you can have work done from any of our three varieties: good, fast, cheap. But you can only pick two

[MattTuck]

I have wrenched in lbs for a dozen+ years, seldom do I get a thank you for good service, maybe I should start offering it and see what happens. But I agree with the above comment that everyone wants everything on the spot... I always like to remind people that you can have work done from any of our three varieties: good, fast, cheap. But you can only pick two

It is the rare shop now-a-days that you know the wrench working on your bike. More often than not, you drop off your bike, and some nameless automaton works on it, and when you pick it up, perhaps days later, you may not even talk to the same person you dropped it off with.

Not always true, but in many of the shops, that is the way it is.

I will agree that sometimes people have unrealistic expectations about what a shop employee should know, given the variety and diversity of products in the 'cycling' industry.

I was in a shop the other day and they were booking out a week for maintenance... I personally don't think that is delivering great service, but what do I know?

I've kicked around the idea of starting a 24 hour bike repair business, where you drop off your bike today and it gets worked on over night, and you pick it up in the morning...

[93legendti]

My last shop butchered a part removal and told me there was no way to to avoid butchering it, even with the Park Tool.

I switched to our local Performance Bike and the mechanic is the best I've ever had work on my bikes.
In fact, I was so impressed, I now work at Performance part time 8-10 hrs/week.

[jlwdm]

...

I was in a shop the other day and they were booking out a week for maintenance... I personally don't think that is delivering great service, but what do I know?

...

Probably because they know what they are doing and the time of year it is.

Jeff

[christian]

Yeah, I'd take that as a sign they're a busy, good bike shop who know what they're doing.

[biker72]

The bike shop is a big I.Q. test, the only way to pass is to quit. The really smart ones never start working there. So what you're saying is that you're smarter than the average house plant.

We presently have a Physician’s Assistant working as a cleanup guy and a bike builder with a degree in chemical engineering. No lack of IQ here.....:)

[djg]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

Yes we do. I've got a pitchfork and an axe handle. Who's got a torch? Let's get the monster.

I dunno. I don't know that we "need" any threads on anything. And I'll agree that the back and forth between "who needs an LBS" and "the LBS is the one true religion" can get pretty darn tiresome. Early and often, like the proverbial Chicago voting instruction.

But maybe some of this is part of cycling, or at least the part of cycling that involves bikes and bike stuff, which is not really impertinent to the board. I've got an LBS I happen to like a lot, and it's not the only good place to go in the area. Other folks find aggravation. They get to vent.

[Likes2ridefar]

I think this is how it is at most retail businesses and not just bike shops.

[oldpotatoe]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

no kidding....................

[djg]

I have wrenched in lbs for a dozen+ years, seldom do I get a thank you for good service, maybe I should start offering it and see what happens. But I agree with the above comment that everyone wants everything on the spot... I always like to remind people that you can have work done from any of our three varieties: good, fast, cheap. But you can only pick two

Do most of my own maintenance, but not everything: I know my main go-to wrench ("the Greg") and two more guys I trust at my LBS and I always say "thank you." But it's retail dude -- you need to expect all kinds as part of the job, including not just flaming jerks but folks who generally are decent, but harried and not terribly interested to know the demands of your job, which, at some level, is catering to folks who don't know or care.

[oldpotatoe]

My favorite is when I convince a customer that they would really be better served with getting a fitting with their new bike (because I can see that their fit needs adjustments, but can't do it with a line of people waiting for help and I'm not a certified fitter) and they get upset because they have to make an appointment for a fitting.

Then we pull a fitter off the floor who will be gone for an hour while we desperately need salespeople because we are mobbed. So then people get upset that they aren't getting the attention they want. Everything is now now now, you just can't win either way.

But at least once a weekend (and usually more) I get a really fun person or couple to work with and that really makes it all worthwhile for me.

Yep, let's bash customers....If I say hello to some, they complain that I'm bugging them, If I don't say anything after hello, I'm ignoring them.

Many come in with preconceived notions(thanks interweb) and when you tell them the truth, they get defensive.

Many want us to apologize for being busy...no, I can't cut you steerer, glue on your tubulars, do a fit on you..RIGHT NOW, as I sling tools all over trying to get the really disgusting bicycle I'm working on right now, clean.

'Will you match the price?", my very favorite...'ya know if ya sell it for more than you paid, you are 'making money'...nope.

How about, " do you know how much I have spent here?", when I can't do their large job on the spot...well, yes, I do, but it's called first come, first served....

many, many others. Customers, the 97%, are tremendous...but those few....takes many more good ones to make up for those very few 't__ds'.

[Spin71]

Seriously, though, how does R&A stay in business? For 15 years, I've heard every person who rides a bicycle in NYC complain about that place.

A) They have an amazing inventory. B) Some people in NY have more money than brains.

[Spin71]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

Do we need another thread of the same people posting pics of their bike 50 times a week??

[oldpotatoe]

I was in a shop the other day and they were booking out a week for maintenance... I personally don't think that is delivering great service, but what do I know?

I've kicked around the idea of starting a 24 hour bike repair business, where you drop off your bike today and it gets worked on over night, and you pick it up in the morning...

That sounds like fun, work 24 hours a day, like working 10-11 hours a day now isn't 'enough'.

...do you get your haircut by appointment, how about getting a physical(my Doc has a 5 MONTH wait). haircutter always 8 weeks out. WE are now 4 weeks out, all our work by appointment. You don't think a week is 'delivering great service'? What do you suggest? Hiring some dumass to wrench on your bike poorly, just do you can get it faster...I have an idea, PLAN AHEAD, for routine service.

[jr59]

Yep, let's bash customers....If I say hello to some, they complain that I'm bugging them, If I don't say anything after hello, I'm ignoring them.

Many come in with preconceived notions(thanks interweb) and when you tell them the truth, they get defensive.

Many want us to apologize for being busy...no, I can't cut you steerer, glue on your tubulars, do a fit on you..RIGHT NOW, as I sling tools all over trying to get the really disgusting bicycle I'm working on right now, clean.

'Will you match the price?", my very favorite...'ya know if ya sell it for more than you paid, you are 'making money'...nope.

How about, " do you know how much I have spent here?", when I can't do their large job on the spot...well, yes, I do, but it's called first come, first served....

many, many others. Customers, the 97%, are tremendous...but those few....takes many more good ones to make up for those very few 't__ds'.

Never read anything better, and so true.


Yet like customers there are good shops and less than good ones.

But I bet that as a shop owner you get tired of reading threads about the poor shops. Please keep in mind in most places there are not that many "good" shops.

[Spin71]

I have an idea, PLAN AHEAD, for routine service.

I have a better idea. Learn to service your own machine.

[William]

Ummm, hellooo.....internet bike forum here folks. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all the time.

Good lbs, bad lbs.
Good customers, bad customers.
Good parts, bad parts.
Good frame builders, bad frame builders.
Good rides, bad rides.
Good non-cyclists, bad non-cyclists.

How many Shimano/Campy or tubular/clincer threads have there been over the years? Many many many.....

Participate or ride on to another thread. At least there are no calls so far to "lock it up".




It's a beautiful day, lets ride!!!:banana:
William

[oldpotatoe]

Never read anything better, and so true.


Yet like customers there are good shops and less than good ones.

But I bet that as a shop owner you get tired of reading threads about the poor shops. Please keep in mind in most places there are not that many "good" shops.

YES I DO...most are trying their best. There are two types, those that just don't know but are trying, and those who just DGAS. Most are number one.

Customers, armed with a little sliver of information, come in and bash you in the teeth with that little sliver of information. VERY frustrating at times.

But i guess i shouldn't read these 'LBS stinks' threads, they just get me spooled up.

[jr59]

YES I DO...most are trying their best. There are two types, those that just don't know but are trying, and those who just DGAS. Most are number one.

Customers, armed with a little sliver of information, come in and bash you in the teeth with that little sliver of information. VERY frustrating at times.

But i guess i shouldn't read these 'LBS stinks' threads, they just get me spooled up.


In this I will tend to disagree, at least in my experince.
Most shops try. Ok. They try to make a profit and little else.
Go ask for anything Campy and they look at you like you are from Mars.
"Don't you know hat stuff doesn't work well" look.
It's very frustrating ALL THE TIME.

I'm not talking about all, just the most of them. If they were all like you Peter, I would never have to call you and ask stupid questions, that I asked the best shop here and they had no answer. Like where to get a 3.5 allen wrench.

Maybe you can move your shop about 1500 miles southeast. The winters are mild and we have great food. :banana:

So the knife cuts both ways and it's very sharp.

Anyways; Thanks for all you have done for me and this forum. I wish most shops were more like you and less like what I have seen in most places.

[TexasJohn]

do we really need another LBS bashing thread??

The goal is the same, but the stories are different, so still fun.

[tbike4]

If you have a good mechanic that knows his stuff and treats you good. Buy him a six pack, fifth, bottle, etc. of whatever he drinks.

This, or hand the young underpaid mechanic a $10 bill discreetly. He can buy himself a decent lunch.

[TexasJohn]

A bike shop that had zero zip ties on hand? How is that possible?

Not possible; didn't want to share. I always pick up a pack of ties at the hardware or auto parts store...my other two "hobbies"...my wife chooses those. She ignores my cycling stories, but loves to hear how I've fixed the car or improved the value of the house. Neither of which happens when I am riding for 4 hours...so she tells me.

[TexasJohn]

no kidding....................

Never a bad word would come your way, OP. Great shop...thx for being there.

[ultraman6970]

I share this impression, sadly the few guys that could have the stuff i need are like 2 hours drive and ask a lot for the stuff (is fair tho)... in my area there is only one mechanic that i like and the kid always answers what i ask to him and straight forward, any other shops around same experience than you... you know that are clueless and they look you as coming from mars if you mention campagnolo... and yes is darn frustrating...

As for the 3.5 allen wrench, my allen set came with one :D

In my area sadly no good lbs, one good mechanic... all of the others IMO you feel like they just try to get your money big time (is business not a convention center).

At some point thought in putting a store but i thought... to deal with d... a... costumers rather be poor... the other thing is that I dont love money and can't miss guide to my favor to people, and you really need to love it as Mr Crabs to be able to be successful in any business.


In this I will tend to disagree, at least in my experince.
Most shops try. Ok. They try to make a profit and little else.
Go ask for anything Campy and they look at you like you are from Mars.
"Don't you know hat stuff doesn't work well" look.
It's very frustrating ALL THE TIME.

I'm not talking about all, just the most of them. If they were all like you Peter, I would never have to call you and ask stupid questions, that I asked the best shop here and they had no answer. Like where to get a 3.5 allen wrench.

Maybe you can move your shop about 1500 miles southeast. The winters are mild and we have great food. :banana:

So the knife cuts both ways and it's very sharp.

Anyways; Thanks for all you have done for me and this forum. I wish most shops were more like you and less like what I have seen in most places.

[jr59]

This, or hand the young underpaid mechanic a $10 bill discreetly. He can buy himself a decent lunch.

Heck I try to over pay the bill to the shop.
Then go give the wrenches a 20 for lunch or beer or whatever.
I do try to give it to the group of wrenches and not just one, basicly because it's a group effort.

Yet most times, they are just lazy and don't want anything to do with my Campy bikes. God forbid if I take the Rholoff to them. That's about a months wait to figure anything out.

[oldpotatoe]

In this I will tend to disagree, at least in my experince.
Most shops try. Ok. They try to make a profit and little else.
Go ask for anything Campy and they look at you like you are from Mars.
"Don't you know hat stuff doesn't work well" look.
It's very frustrating ALL THE TIME.

I'm not talking about all, just the most of them. If they were all like you Peter, I would never have to call you and ask stupid questions, that I asked the best shop here and they had no answer. Like where to get a 3.5 allen wrench.

Maybe you can move your shop about 1500 miles southeast. The winters are mild and we have great food. :banana:

So the knife cuts both ways and it's very sharp.

Anyways; Thanks for all you have done for me and this forum. I wish most shops were more like you and less like what I have seen in most places.

No stupid questions, just stupid answers..

Thanks for the kind words, call or email anytime..anybody can..

peter@vecchios.com

Not gonna move tho.

[fiamme red]

Ummm, hellooo.....internet bike forum here folks. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all the time.

Good lbs, bad lbs.
Good customers, bad customers.
Good parts, bad parts.
Good frame builders, bad frame builders.
Good rides, bad rides.
Good non-cyclists, bad non-cyclists.Exactly. I wasn't intending to bash bike shops in general. I'm very loyal to my LBS, although they're far from perfect, because I like their friendly attitude and helpfulness. And they know that a seattube can't get stretched out. :)

[ClutchCargo]

That sounds like fun, work 24 hours a day, like working 10-11 hours a day now isn't 'enough'.

...do you get your haircut by appointment, how about getting a physical(my Doc has a 5 MONTH wait). haircutter always 8 weeks out. WE are now 4 weeks out, all our work by appointment. You don't think a week is 'delivering great service'? What do you suggest? Hiring some dumass to wrench on your bike poorly, just do you can get it faster...I have an idea, PLAN AHEAD, for routine service.

That's fine, so far as it goes. I do most all of the work on my bikes, certainly routine maintenance (and, btw, it's always amazing to me how many avid riders I know who ride 4,000 miles a year but who barely know enough to keep their bike shifting smoothly). But, your post begs the question, how DO you handle non-routine maintenance issues that come into your shop?

[gavingould]

your average LBS mech doesn't make a ton of money.
they really appreciate tips whether they're in the form of green paper spendables, malted hops drinkables, or tasty edibles.

at least that's how it is where i work (i've been a jack-of-all-trades at a couple shops)

we do go the extra mile for our regulars, the ones who keep our doors open by purchasing and having us do service.
those who tip may get a bit extra cleaning, a bit faster service, and more willingness to figure out that mysterious click or creak.

occasionally we make a mistake. those get distributed among all the customers pretty randomly, doesn't matter if it's the kid we do a flat fix for once and never see again or the guy who's ordered a half dozen full custom builds though us and drops by every couple weeks for something or just to say hi and tell us how his riding has been going.

[Pete Mckeon]

Experience and service are my top priorities for shop rating based over, many decades, and on knowing them and the performance


In northern NJ area CYCLESPORT in PARKRIDGE NJ is a 4 STAR in Service, Selection, and SATISFACTION. Mike GROTZ and his team are in the top tier.

IN NYC and in Conn Signature Cycle is top tier 4 star also.
Peter (Vechios) in Boulder Colo
AKa "OLDPOTATOE" is also op tier and

yeah that is personal for me but they are based on decades of knowing the owners and their beliefs!!!!:cool:

PETE


THis does not me

[christian]

Dude, Pete, no offense, but with 24 posts, who's going to listen to you?

:)

[jr59]

Dude, Pete, no offense, but with 24 posts, who's going to listen to you?

:)

lol!

Yea who is this Pete guy! :banana:

His style does kind of remind me of a long time poster here, but I haven't seen him post in a while! :p

[Ti Designs]

We presently have a Physician’s Assistant working as a cleanup guy and a bike builder with a degree in chemical engineering. No lack of IQ here.....:)


I think that's more of a statement about the economy.

I have degrees in computer science and physics, and I work in a bike shop. The shop has a way of beating the smart out of people. There were things I thought were so stupid when I first started working at the shop, now it's just what happens. I think there's a steady decline in IQ as you work in a shop (I'm probably not the person to ask, I've been there too long). For example, if you stay at the shop for 10 years, and you know you've been there for that long, your IQ instantly drops by 10 points. After 20 years working in a shop there's just no point in wearing a helmet any more - it's a pitty 'cause we get discounts on stuff like that...

[54ny77]

In NYC, for things I can't do myself, the ONLY place I'd take my bike to get worked on would be Signature or Conrad's. Having been to both on several occasions over the years, that is speaking from experience.

For buying clothes/shoes/helmets/parts & stuff, I've always had great shopping experience at Toga on west side and when they had their east side location on 64th/1st (it closed down, unfortunately). Helpful sales staff, and end of season you can find some great discounts. I bought a winter jacket that they didn't have in NYC but did have at their Nyack location, and they had it brought over in a day or two.

The absolute worst experience was at one of the Metro Bike shop locations. They can rot in hell or go outta biz (or both) and I could care less--they took my money on a special ordered part that never came in, never called to follow up (despite my repeated calls every few weeks for an update), and never refunded my money after I demanded it. It was a nominal amount of $ and I didn't care about that. It was purely the principle of it. F them.

A friend of mine sent me this. I've omitted the names of the bike shops, but both are well-established (over 20 years in business in the NYC area) and sell high-end bikes.

Last time I went in to Bike Shop #1, there were 3 guys behind the counter, all looking at computer monitors or magazines, and nobody looked up when I approached. I asked if someone could help me, and one guy pointed to a young woman on the sales floor. I told her I wanted to buy 8 feet of brake cable housing, and she didn't know if they sold that. Guess I'd just have to buy a new bike, remove the cables and throw away the rest, right?

Just recently, my friend **** was having slipping seatpost problems on his newly repainted and rebuilt 80's Cinelli. He brought it to Bike Shop #1, and their "framebuilder" said he'd have to replace the seat tube, it had apparently "stretched out" over the years. He was going to go ahead, so asked me if I thought their builder was reputable. I asked him what size was the slipping post. Turns out the guys at Bike Shop #2, who had built it up for him, thought a Columbus SL seat tube should take a 26.8 post. He bought a 27.2, and miraculously, that stretched out seat tube was fine again.

:rolleyes: :) :p

[MattTuck]

That sounds like fun, work 24 hours a day, like working 10-11 hours a day now isn't 'enough'.

...do you get your haircut by appointment, how about getting a physical(my Doc has a 5 MONTH wait). haircutter always 8 weeks out. WE are now 4 weeks out, all our work by appointment. You don't think a week is 'delivering great service'? What do you suggest? Hiring some dumass to wrench on your bike poorly, just do you can get it faster...I have an idea, PLAN AHEAD, for routine service.

Well, I don't think a single person could work 24 hours on a regular basis... you'd need a few people to do that.


I don't have a problem with planning ahead for routine service, I have a problem with, "Drop off your bike and you can pick it up next week" when the job should take 3 hours, max. I'd have no problem if they said, "we can fit you in during this slot, bring your bike in next Monday, we'll work on it, and have it back to you by tuesday or wednesday" When they want to hold your bike for a week +, it makes you feel like your riding is not exactly a priority and/or they don't have a schedule and hope to get to your bike whenever they can.

For non-regular maintenance, it is an issue too. If there is something that is keeping you from riding, and you have to wait 4 weeks to get it fixed, I do not consider that great service. If your car needed repairs, would you give it to a mechanic for 4 weeks? I'm sure that if a customer wanted to buy a new bike and wanted campagnolo instead of sram on it, that the shop wouldn't say "come back in 4 weeks, our shop won't have time to change out the group until then".

I'm not trying to be adversarial, as I understand that quality people are in high demand. And having a queue is more predictable for a business' cash flow than having no appointments at all. In fact, I want bike shops to succeed, I'd be willing to pay more to get faster service... I value my riding time, and would prefer to just let a professional deal with the wrenching stuff. But if it can't be done for weeks, then maybe I go buy a tool and figure out how to do it myself.

[fiamme red]

In NYC, for things I can't do myself, the ONLY place I'd take my bike to get worked on would be Signature or Conrad's. Having been to both on several occasions over the years, that is speaking from experience.I've never been to Signature, but my experience with the mechanic at Conrad's was always good. I never go there any more, since Tudor City is far out of the way for me, and besides, I don't like the owner (Sarah).

[eippo1]

I don't have a problem with planning ahead for routine service, I have a problem with, "Drop off your bike and you can pick it up next week" when the job should take 3 hours, max.



You do realize that there are about 30-100 people that brought their bikes in ahead of you with 3 hour max jobs as well, right? Bike shops are first come, first serve. Some do appointment as an above & beyond thing or at times for people on the shop's team, but that's how it works.

The problem with your car service analogy is that everyone who owns a car does not decide to bring in their car for spring service all at the same time when the nicer weather reminds them that they want to drive their car, but their tranny needs work. Nor do most car owners drive their cars for 6 months and then leave them in the garage, only to break them out in the spring while noticing that they need servicing.

At the start of March, my shop had a 2 day turnaround and even less before that. Now that's out to a little over a week and that's only because we have a large staff of mechanics. We can barely find spaces to put the bikes that we have in for service this time of year. Give it another 2 months, and most of the backlog will be cleared out because people will be out riding their bikes.

[MattTuck]

The problem with your car service analogy is that everyone who owns a car does not decide to bring in their car for spring service all at the same time when the nicer weather reminds them that they want to drive their car, but their tranny needs work.


Have you been to a tire store/service station in December or March? Same effect happens with snow tires being put on and off. Generally you do not have to leave your car there for weeks.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the waiting time itself. I would think a better solution for all involved would be "give me a call when my slot is coming up, I'll drop the bike off, and pick it up in a day or two."

I'm just giving you the impression I get, that when they want to keep your bike for a long period of time, it makes me feel like the bike shop's whims come at the expense of my convenience. Almost like saying to me, "yeah, your bike will be done sometime next week, depending on if my buddy brings his bike in and I work on it ahead of yours"

[Bob Ross]

I've kicked around the idea of starting a 24 hour bike repair business, where you drop off your bike today and it gets worked on over night, and you pick it up in the morning...

This guy does your idea one better:
http://www.bikedoctornyc.com/
I have no idea how he can stay in business...actually, I think he's fairly new at it, and within a year or less he'll discover he can't stay solvent with this business model...but for now it's an incredible service:

He comes to your door, picks up your bike, does the work, delivers it back to your door...within 24 hours.

My wife decided to try him out. He picked up her bike at 6:30AM on a Tuesday. Had it back to her at 6:30AM the following day. Cost was exactly the same as what she would have paid Mark Purdy or Imbert Jimenez or Mike @ Signature or Yee @ Conrad's. And she's really happy with the work this Bike Doctor did.

I may have to try him before he goes belly up!

[54ny77]

Bob's post reminded me: I totally forgot to add--Mark Purdy at Ifyibyx.com.

He's done a few things on my bikes and is superb. Super nice guy as well.

For those in NYC, the pickup/delivery aspect is unreal and as convenient as it gets.

[flydhest]

I have to disagree with you here. What I think the guy meant was, if there are 30 to 100 people ahead of me in line . . . just tell me that, tell me you can't get to it for a week, and let me schedule that. Your point about barely being able to have space for the bikes should reinforce this model. You all wouldn't have to give up valuable real estate to store bikes that you won't get to for four or five days.

The shop the sponsors my team is big on the scheduling thing b/c it keeps them from tying up too much space. They are in Georgetown, land is expensive, so they are cheek by jowl.


You do realize that there are about 30-100 people that brought their bikes in ahead of you with 3 hour max jobs as well, right? Bike shops are first come, first serve. Some do appointment as an above & beyond thing or at times for people on the shop's team, but that's how it works.

The problem with your car service analogy is that everyone who owns a car does not decide to bring in their car for spring service all at the same time when the nicer weather reminds them that they want to drive their car, but their tranny needs work. Nor do most car owners drive their cars for 6 months and then leave them in the garage, only to break them out in the spring while noticing that they need servicing.

At the start of March, my shop had a 2 day turnaround and even less before that. Now that's out to a little over a week and that's only because we have a large staff of mechanics. We can barely find spaces to put the bikes that we have in for service this time of year. Give it another 2 months, and most of the backlog will be cleared out because people will be out riding their bikes.

[dustyrider]

Have you been to a tire store/service station in December or March? Same effect happens with snow tires being put on and off. Generally you do not have to leave your car there for weeks.


No you don't leave your car for weeks, but you'll be there for most of the day. Still a wait, and likely a vague estimate as to how long it will take.
I'd also venture to guess there are at least 15-20 guys just changing tires at a place like this. I don't have a day to kill so I usually try to just leave my wheels, I also have trust issues, hence me waiting the past week for a radiator for my car to be delivered. It's also why I own tools and perform my own service!

The other side of your arguement or disagreement with the way bike shops handle repairs may just come from your inablitiy to communicate your intentions.

Have you ever asked the LBS to call you when they are a few hours out from servicing your bike?

Since it is unlikely that a bike shop will be able to tell you exactly when they will get to your bike, you may need to keep your bike with you, and have the ability to drop it off within the given time. But it seems to me this would fit your expectations far better, and allevaite this tension you seem to carry. Questions usually don't hurt to ask, and very rarely can someone predict what another is thinking.

[Nooch]

I don't have a problem with planning ahead for routine service, I have a problem with, "Drop off your bike and you can pick it up next week" when the job should take 3 hours, max. I'd have no problem if they said, "we can fit you in during this slot, bring your bike in next Monday, we'll work on it, and have it back to you by tuesday or wednesday" When they want to hold your bike for a week +, it makes you feel like your riding is not exactly a priority and/or they don't have a schedule and hope to get to your bike whenever they can.


We do both of these things at the shop I work at.. for most who aren't riding every day, casual riders, kids bikes, etc, it's no problem for the bike to be left for a week..

For most really serious riders, including most everyone on this board, they have a back-up/cyclocross/some other bike that they're happy to get the miles in while bike A is being worked on.

For others who still want to ride and nothing is dangerously wrong with their bike who still want to ride and can't/don't want to wait the week, we're happy to have them bring the bike in the evening before we can do the service, and pick it up the next night -- also assuming that no parts need to be ordered, etc..

[Black Dog]

I have to disagree with you here. What I think the guy meant was, if there are 30 to 100 people ahead of me in line . . . just tell me that, tell me you can't get to it for a week, and let me schedule that. Your point about barely being able to have space for the bikes should reinforce this model. You all wouldn't have to give up valuable real estate to store bikes that you won't get to for four or five days.

The shop the sponsors my team is big on the scheduling thing b/c it keeps them from tying up too much space. They are in Georgetown, land is expensive, so they are cheek by jowl.

There are a few issues with scheduling work at a bike shop:

1. Predicting the amount of time needed for a repair. "my bike has a creak"...well how much time will be needed to resolve that? Many repairs and maintenance jobs can be estimated many can not. This makes it hard to schedule. Extra time has to built in but how much? One unforeseen issue can ruin a schedule. In the auto biz most repairs are standardized and make scheduling much easier.

2. When people walk in with their bike many of them do not want to walk out of the store with their bike and then have to come back again to drop it off at a scheduled time and come back again to pick it up when ready.

3. Who will manage the schedule? You will need someone to manage the schedule. This will take time and resources and increase overhead in a business that runs tight. A full time service manager is a big ask for most shops.

[jr59]

We do both of these things at the shop I work at.. for most who aren't riding every day, casual riders, kids bikes, etc, it's no problem for the bike to be left for a week..

For most really serious riders, including most everyone on this board, they have a back-up/cyclocross/some other bike that they're happy to get the miles in while bike A is being worked on.

For others who still want to ride and nothing is dangerously wrong with their bike who still want to ride and can't/don't want to wait the week, we're happy to have them bring the bike in the evening before we can do the service, and pick it up the next night -- also assuming that no parts need to be ordered, etc..

This is me. I have to many bikes! :banana:

[MilanoTom]

Heck I try to over pay the bill to the shop.
Then go give the wrenches a 20 for lunch or beer or whatever.
I do try to give it to the group of wrenches and not just one, basicly because it's a group effort.

Yet most times, they are just lazy and don't want anything to do with my Campy bikes. God forbid if I take the Rholoff to them. That's about a months wait to figure anything out.

You just need to find the right shop. Too bad you're not in this neck of the woods. We (Union Cycle - Attleboro, MA) built a Rohloff-hubbed wheel with a custom belt drive for a customer. We're also a Campagnolo Pro Shop.

Regards,
Tom

[oldpotatoe]

That's fine, so far as it goes. I do most all of the work on my bikes, certainly routine maintenance (and, btw, it's always amazing to me how many avid riders I know who ride 4,000 miles a year but who barely know enough to keep their bike shifting smoothly). But, your post begs the question, how DO you handle non-routine maintenance issues that come into your shop?

Depends. If 'something broke', and we can fit it in at the end of the day, after all scheduled work, we do. If not that day, maybe the next. But real, something broke', type stuff, not a tuneup, tire glue on, type thing. I'll almost always find the time to fix something that another shop gooned up, particularly if it's Campagnolo. Some things are just amazing..


MTB Tuesday...Truvativ crank(outboard BB cups), 73mm shell...WITH the BB cup spacers...crank was so loose it was falling off..cuz if the dimbulb that worked on it tightened the crankarm to spec...it wouldn't turn...so they left it loose so it would...

OR Mavic krysirium hub...axle end loose, so the FH body would turn, cuz they left the 1mm spacer OUT..block away shop. That type thing I'll do fairly quickly.

BUt it's long hours, fair but not huge financial rewards, get to mess with bikes but it takes the 'fun' outta bikes, no doubt.

Do I stay late, come early sometimes, like yesterday...8am(open at 10am) to about 7pm..yep, sometimes.

[oldpotatoe]

Well, I don't think a single person could work 24 hours on a regular basis... you'd need a few people to do that.


I don't have a problem with planning ahead for routine service, I have a problem with, "Drop off your bike and you can pick it up next week" when the job should take 3 hours, max. I'd have no problem if they said, "we can fit you in during this slot, bring your bike in next Monday, we'll work on it, and have it back to you by tuesday or wednesday" When they want to hold your bike for a week +, it makes you feel like your riding is not exactly a priority and/or they don't have a schedule and hope to get to your bike whenever they can.

For non-regular maintenance, it is an issue too. If there is something that is keeping you from riding, and you have to wait 4 weeks to get it fixed, I do not consider that great service. If your car needed repairs, would you give it to a mechanic for 4 weeks? I'm sure that if a customer wanted to buy a new bike and wanted campagnolo instead of sram on it, that the shop wouldn't say "come back in 4 weeks, our shop won't have time to change out the group until then".

I'm not trying to be adversarial, as I understand that quality people are in high demand. And having a queue is more predictable for a business' cash flow than having no appointments at all. In fact, I want bike shops to succeed, I'd be willing to pay more to get faster service... I value my riding time, and would prefer to just let a professional deal with the wrenching stuff. But if it can't be done for weeks, then maybe I go buy a tool and figure out how to do it myself.

'Pay more' doesn't give you more hours in the day. Why I do all(most all) by appointment. Same day service, bring it in that day, and I'll do it that day...like the dentist. Emergencies, real emergencies, I generally fit in..not in 4 weeks. BUT yep a job takes 3 hours, along with the scads of other jobs that take '3 hours'.

BTW-My son's car has been at the car repair place for 4 weeks...busted timing belt, killed the valves...

[Spin71]

I'll almost always find the time to fix something that another shop gooned up, particularly if it's Campagnolo. Some things are just amazing..


MTB Tuesday...Truvativ crank(outboard BB cups), 73mm shell...WITH the BB cup spacers...crank was so loose it was falling off..cuz if the dimbulb that worked on it tightened the crankarm to spec...it wouldn't turn...so they left it loose so it would...

OR Mavic krysirium hub...axle end loose, so the FH body would turn, cuz they left the 1mm spacer OUT..block away shop. That type thing I'll do fairly quickly.



So you hate threads about shop bashing, but in all of them you love to point out how other shops screwed up a job and you had to fix it. Sheer awesomeness...... pS: 95% of the shops in this country suck. Deal with it and don't take it personally if you are in the 5 %

[oldpotatoe]

So you hate threads about shop bashing, but in all of them you love to point out how other shops screwed up a job and you had to fix it. Sheer awesomeness...... pS: 95% of the shops in this country suck. Deal with it and don't take it personally if you are in the 5 %

OK, thanks, I'll go 'deal with it'.....

[Grant McLean]

The bike shop is a big I.Q. test, the only way to pass is to quit.

It took me a looooooooooong time to realize this!

-g

[AngryScientist]

So you hate threads about shop bashing, but in all of them you love to point out how other shops screwed up a job and you had to fix it. Sheer awesomeness...... pS: 95% of the shops in this country suck. Deal with it and don't take it personally if you are in the 5 %

why resort to personal attacks? is it just because you're behind the internet? would you really say something like this to Peter's face if you were in his company?

this forum generally tends to be a notch above the rest in terms of civility, and personality, but every now and then something like this creeps in. it's disappointing.

[Spin71]

why resort to personal attacks? is it just because you're behind the internet? would you really say something like this to Peter's face if you were in his company?

this forum generally tends to be a notch above the rest in terms of civility, and personality, but every now and then something like this creeps in. it's disappointing.

Pointing out his hypocrisy is a personal attack? Get a grip.

[Spin71]

OK, thanks, I'll go 'deal with it'.....

Cool. And thanks again for pointing out most shops suck.

[oldpotatoe]

Cool. And thanks again for pointing out most shops suck.

and some customers.....

[Spin71]

and some customers.....

Agreed, it's probably an even ratio.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Pointing out his hypocrisy is a personal attack? Get a grip.

. . . yes it is when done in the way you just did. Take a pill or go for a ride and relax . . .

BBD

[Bruce K]

I guess the flip side would be the build up of my new CAAD10 project

The shop owner is doing it personally do his two regular mechanics stay on their scheduled work

He is taking his time and building as if it sad for his pro team

Frame arrived Tuesday afternoon and bike should roll out this afternoon

I'm very happy with the personal touch

BK

[old fat man]

I guess the flip side would be the build up of my new CAAD10 project

The shop owner is doing it personally do his two regular mechanics stay on their scheduled work

He is taking his time and building as if it sad for his pro team

Frame arrived Tuesday afternoon and bike should roll out this afternoon

I'm very happy with the personal touch

BK

that's nice, to get the personal touch, but

1. if a pro team mechanic took 2+ days to assemble a bike, they would no longer be a pro team mechanic
2. that is not a good investment of his time. are you really going to buy enough stuff at retail from him in the future to warrant the 6+ hours he's spending to assemble your bike?
3. is he setting an expectation that others who you refer will be able to demand the same hours and hours of personal attention to their bike builds?

short term, we view this as great customer service and the owner thinks the hours they've (wasted) spent personally attending to your build were worth it because you are happy today. in 2 months, when you have a single bad experience, the love for that shop will disappear quickly.

* disclaimer, this is not a personal attack on bruce K. I know him and would say the same thing to his face, except he lives an hour away and the internet is right here.

[William]

I've commented numerous times about the two main shops in my area. Great customer service and wrenches at one, really bad customer service that I couldn't get past to find out what the mechanics were like at the other. So much so that I would drive a half hour out of my way to go to the good shop when the other shop was only ten minutes away.

Every so often if I needed a small part I would pop in to the close shop just to see if things had changed, and for a few years they had not. At the last Rhode Island Ramble Hans talked me into giving them another try next time I needed something after I had related my experiences there.

So, after relating my slipping seat post issue on the Mtb here on the forum, I decided to head down there and see about a second binder (ala Angry's suggestion). I walked in to the shop and the first thing I notice is that the shop had been remodeled and the wrenches work area was now in the open. A much more open and inviting feeling. Within about five seconds of my walking in someone said "I'll be right with you". After finishing up with his customer he comes over and asks if he can help me. I explain the issue and ask about adding a second collar to stop the slipping and what options they may have in stock. He asks if I have the bike with me (which I did in the rack on my cruiser) and he asks me to go get it. He then proceeds to mark the height with tape, loosen the collar, take the post out, clean if off and then clean the inside of the ST. He shows me some grease/lube with grit in it that they use and then puts it on, re-installs the post and says that should take care of it (and it hasn't moved sine then). Then he notices a squeak in the saddle, marks it, removes it to inspect, re-installs and makes sure everything is tight, still a little squeak. He flips the bike over and puts a little lube on the back of the rails where they attach to the saddle and viola, no more squeak. Then he says "Good to go". I ask what I owe him and he doesn't charge me a thing. This is total 180 degrees from the number of other times I had been in this shop and been ignored. Totally different vibe here now and since they helped me out, I went back and bought a chain guide for the 1x9 conversion (which I could have bought cheaper on-line) a tube, patch kit, and CO2 cartridge. Not big money but at least to do my part to reward good service.

So, a bad service shop can change for the better. I don't know how much Hans had in this change (since he does work there part time now) but it's good to see.






William