got the carbon bug - need some advice...

[AngryScientist]

i'm thinking it's time to dip my foot into the world of carbon fiber frames. i've ridden a few as loaners or rentals, but have never owned a CF bike myself.

most of my bikes right now are all-day comfortable, great bikes, except for my racier bianchi.

i would like something with an aggressive geometry, and i want to build this one up pretty light. pretty sure the group will be chorus-11. carbon wheels of some kind too.

thing is, i have no idea where to start, there are sooo many CF bikes out there.

is < $1500 for a frameset out of the question?

any advice for a guy who's been riding steel and Ti. for the past few years??

[AngryScientist]

this, by the way, is at the top of my list at the moment, any feedback?

http://www.velomine.com/images/12krypton.jpg

[Bob Loblaw]

A friend of mine got one of these and really likes it. Made in Germany if you're looking for something outside the designed-here-made-in-Asia standard.

http://www.focus-bikes.com/int/en/about-us/about-focus/bikes-made-in-germany.html

BL

[Liv2RideHard]

Since you are going to run Campa...do you want to try and keep it all Italian? If it were me looking to replace my carbon Cinelli Estrada, I would be looking at offerings from Casati, Carrera, Tommasini, Formigli to name a few. Not necessarily in that order. There are soooo many options out there. Depends on where you want your frame to be from. The new Cipo frames are cool too. I am sure more will come to me. You are probably looking at north of $2000 for something handmade in Italy. There is always something pre-loved as well assuming you can trust the person selling.

Wheels...I love my 404 tubs. They are stellar in all conditions. If I could get new hoops right now, probably 303s. Again lots and lots of options.

[Liv2RideHard]

http://www.ciclicasati.it/

http://tommasinibicycle.com/

http://www.formigli.com/

http://www.carrera-podium.it/

[happycampyer]

Not famililiar with Argon bikes so I can't help you there, but in that price range, I would seriously consider used frames especially if they're from a reliable source. A Look 585 goes for about half that, and there are plenty of Times, Colnagos, etc. that sell for less than that.

One advantage of buying a used frame is that, if you don't like it, it's typically easy to sell withou taking much if any of a loss.

[AngryScientist]

used is a good idea, the only problem is that i ride such small frames, that finding them used is sometimes a challenge.

[oldpotatoe]

i'm thinking it's time to dip my foot into the world of carbon fiber frames. i've ridden a few as loaners or rentals, but have never owned a CF bike myself.

most of my bikes right now are all-day comfortable, great bikes, except for my racier bianchi.

i would like something with an aggressive geometry, and i want to build this one up pretty light. pretty sure the group will be chorus-11. carbon wheels of some kind too.

thing is, i have no idea where to start, there are sooo many CF bikes out there.

is < $1500 for a frameset out of the question?

any advice for a guy who's been riding steel and Ti. for the past few years??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/700C-carbon-racing-frame-with-inner-cable-carbon-road-bicycle-frame-fork-/220989520604

[veloduffer]

Parlee or Crumpton - great CF bikes. There's two Parlees (Z1 and Z5) on eBay in your size. I've got a Z4 in Large, which is the stock model made in Asia, and it weighs 15.1 lbs with not-so weight weenie parts (Athena). I imagine you could get closer to high 13s in your size. They ride very nicely, stiff but comfortable, good handling for technical downhills and great for climbing (if you have the legs!). The Z5 is stock and made in Asia, the Z1-Z3 are custom models.

http://racerx.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v36/p1034684474-3.jpg

The only other CF bike that I had considered was the Crumpton. You can a custom or the Italian-made Corsa Team.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Size?

[flydhest]

I bought my Look 585 used on this forum. $1K for a very lightly used one-year old frame. I got a steal, but you could get one for that amount that is two years old. It is the carbon bike that everyone should own in that price range. Used Look. It is light enough to be considered light. It is very comfortable for longer rides, and yet it is my go-to bike for racing, especially crits.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I don't think you can do better than that Krypton in that price range. My LBS sells Argon and gave me a really good deal on a Krypton frameset to use to race. I wound up passing as I am not doing much racing this year and already have a CF bike, but I had made up my mind I would go with that model as an affordable frameset to race.

One of the features I like about the Krypton is that it still comes with a threaded BB. The higher end model (Gallium Pro) comes with a PF86 BB. I detest pressfit BB's.

This all assumes you buy new. As others have pointed out, you can get some really nice framesets in the used market.

[AngryScientist]

Size?

50, more or less.

52 TT works well for me.

thanks for the leads, going to do some searching...

[54ny77]

angry if you can find a used z4, get it. i had one, loved it. all-around do everything bike, great handling, light, etc. liked it so much that i used its exact geo on all my cutsom alu. bikes.

[BCS]

Parlee or Crumpton - great CF bikes. There's two Parlees (Z1 and Z5) on eBay in your size. I've got a Z4 in Large, which is the stock model made in Asia, and it weighs 15.1 lbs with not-so weight weenie parts (Athena). I imagine you could get closer to high 13s in your size. They ride very nicely, stiff but comfortable, good handling for technical downhills and great for climbing (if you have the legs!). The Z5 is stock and made in Asia, the Z1-Z3 are custom models.



A Parlee Z4 cured my carbon-itch....for now! Mine is a Z4 with Centaur, Edge tubulars, ~14.5 lbs. Its only limitations are the engine. The Z1 mentioned on ebay, assuming we are talking about the size Small, has been listed forever. The STA is very slack for a small frame. I contacted the seller a while ago and they were unwilling to drop the price.

[eddief]

but you ought to compare others with the Specialized Roubaix. it just works.

[crownjewelwl]

next you'll be asking about SRAM!!

[firerescuefin]

Nick..Argon makes great bikes. Wouldn't steer you away from that direction. They have a quite a following in the Tri community, and I got a chance to look at Spidertechs road and TT bikes last year, very nice.

[benitosan1972]

The big co's frames can be found at great prices usually at the end of the model year, they make so many, want to clear it out for the next season: Specialized, Trek, Felt, Cannondale, etc. I've also seen Jamis and Argon at great prices. Also check when C/C blows out their frames: Wilier, Ridley, BMC even Pinarello go cheap (relatively, vs their original price).

But to stay under budget of $1500 and buy new, Argon is your best bet.

[rice rocket]

I looked at an Argon frame before I got my current road bike, and the general consensus was they rode harshly? Not sure if there's any truth to that given that it's the internet though.

[Fixed]

remember what coach said ..
cheers :)

[phcollard]

this, by the way, is at the top of my list at the moment, any feedback?

I've heard a lot of people in Quebec complaining about the Argon 18 warranty. Looks like it's very hard to have it honored! I'm usually for local companies but I would pass on Argon. My 2c :)

[mvrider]

How are Litespeed's Asia-made carbon frames? Framesets from Competitive Cyclist are well within the OP's $1500 budget, and the full builds might be an even better deal:
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=SPECIALS

Also, was oldpotatoe actually endorsing an eBay/China-carbon frame up there?

[bobswire]

I feel the same as you, "angry" only I'm not a scientist, just old. ;)

Anyway I have my eyes open for a carbon frame too,just waiting until that great deal comes along. Ebay had a Parlee z4 going for $1100 last week I was tempted to get,also I like the Colnago C-40,sweet carbon frame that retains the look of sweet steel lugged frames.
Since you're a scientist I'm sure you'll do the proper research and not jump into something that you'll regret.

[djg]

Bought a used Look 585, like flydhest (although mine was a bit less expensive, and no doubt shorter too). Very glad to have it. I don't know if it fits the "agresssive" criterion, but it's certainly a bike you can race (supposing you can race) -- wouldn't expect it to hold you back at all.

The vast majority of CF frames now available are things I just haven't ridden, much less owned and ridden plenty. For off-the-cuff stuff, Look don't seem crazy expensive for pro tour level frames to start, and often enough are available at end of season (or end of last season) discount or used well below the new price. Used from an unknown seller might involve an element of risk with any frame or part, but lots of used stuff is just fine and some of it is mint. You might find something that fits, at a fraction of the new price, from any of the bigguns (Look, Time, Colnago, etc.) or smaller makers that folks like (Crumpton, Parlee, Serotta, etc.). For new, less expensive, production CF showing up in races -- there always seems to be some trickle-down or whatever going on at Ridley, Cannondale, etc.

[chismog]

imho, the way to buy a carbon frame is to figure out what geometry and ride you want and find the ones that match that criteria. If you're not a circus freak and can ride most frames and just want a regular road bike, there will be lots of options and models. Less if you need a tall head tube, or a shorter top tube, still fewer with longer trail, etc. This isn't your first bike so take the experience you have with your old frames and bring it to your new one. What do you like/dislike in a bike?

Don't get hung up on construction or weight. Major (and most minor) brands are all made good enough and most reputable brands will build up pretty light. Once you can narrow it down to a few that have what you're looking for, pick what strikes your fancy out of the selection.

To me the big deal is sizing and style. You just aren't going to get the same fit out of a Giant with 5 sizes as you will out of a Colnago with 25. If you are lucky maybe you're spot on for a given brand, and keep those on the short list... But chances are good you're making do when you go with frames that are S/M/L which helps weed them out. Similarly, if brand X only makes a full-on racing bike and you want something for all day comfort... You're going to be compromising to make that bike work for you.

Hope this helps!

[ultraman6970]

Spot on chismog.

[christian]

That Argon should have a few more stickers.

[slowgoing]

If by aggresive geometry you mean low trail/fast steering, stay away from used Colangos, especially in smaller sizes. They tip more toward high trail, slow steering and high stability.

If you can find a nice Parlee that fits your geometry, you won't be disappointed.

[tiretrax]

I rode next to a guy with an Argon in a century last year. He liked it and paired it with a carbon seat. He said it was comfortable.

There are a lot to consider in that price range, especially if you venture into the used market. I have owned a Wilier Izoard (I loved it, but it wasn't stiff enough for me), I still own an Orbea Orca (which is), and rented many others while on trips, including a Look 595 (fantastic bike that the store tried to sell me buy I just bought the Orbea). The funny thing is that when I ride my Seven Ti CX bike, I love the feel of it, and I think it could be the only bike I own.

[pedlpwrd]

this, by the way, is at the top of my list at the moment, any feedback?

http://www.velomine.com/images/12krypton.jpg

Beautiful comes to mind. I have never ridden any. You'll have to let us know some feedback as to wether or not you enjoyed the change.

[alancw3]

i would not buy a used carbon fiber frame UNLESS i lived where i could inspect the frame and i really mean inspect the frame. that's just me. i have seen so many cf frames that have failed.

as far as warranty goes. if others have stated that argon's warranty response is not that great then i would look for another frame. cf can be so fragile that you need a company behind you that will honor a warranty if you hit a bad bump. i have heard that specialized, look and trek are good with cf warranty problems but can change at anytime with big companies.

[Black Dog]

If you are buying used then warranty is often not an issue since they are generally non-transferable. Since this is you 1st step into the CF world go with something affordable. Jamis is alway a very good deal for the money. And they come out of the same factory as Cervélo, for all that it is worth.

[Ramjm_2000]

I had the carbon bug about 2 years ago, prior to moving back to DC. I was fortunate enough to have the garage space to accomidate all my bikes to include a bike from all the primary flavors. For carbon I had a Chorus equiped LOOK 585. It was a very nice ride but I found mysled always going back to my Lynskey L3. After the newness wore off I saw no reason to keep it (to think of it I should probably sell off my lugged steelie too).

[roguedog]

Don't forget calfee and I've read good things about pinarellos

[leooooo]

Whatever good was written about Pinas are negated by their ugly as sin forks ;)

[rice rocket]

How are Litespeed's Asia-made carbon frames? Framesets from Competitive Cyclist are well within the OP's $1500 budget, and the full builds might be an even better deal:
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=SPECIALS

Also, was oldpotatoe actually endorsing an eBay/China-carbon frame up there?

My primary ride is a Litespeed C2, I'm about 4000 miles into ownership.

I like it a lot. Sure it doesn't have the heritage that some people look for, but it's comfortable and the bottom bracket area is probably the largest in the industry. It (feels like it) puts power down like no other bike I've been on. The cockpit stiffness is incredible (probably attributable to the 1.5" lower headset bearing and fork construction), its very confident in the corners with no hints of wavering at all. It really is point and shoot.

One thing that I caution you on (smaller riders specifically) is the toe overlap, but other than that, I've been very happy.

Edit: my basis of comparison isn't great, I've owned only a handful of bikes (and briefly ridden a smattering). '04 Raleigh Team (aluminum frame w/ carbon fork and rear triangle) and '08 Scott CR1 (pre-facelift), but it does do everything better than my previous rides.

[FixedNotBroken]

If you are buying used then warranty is often not an issue since they are generally non-transferable. Since this is you 1st step into the CF world go with something affordable. Jamis is alway a very good deal for the money. And they come out of the same factory as Cervélo, for all that it is worth.

Just because something is made in the same place doesn't mean they are the same quality..

[ultraman6970]

THe comfort in a frame is very subjective because some guys, specially touring riders like frames that dont have feedback from the road at all. Smooth stuff... for them the argon 18 pictured might bee to stiff or too "noisy" while riding.

Heard orcas are plenty stiff... but i rode one long time ago and was not that stiff, w/o riding a frame sometimes is hard to figure it out how they ride.



I rode next to a guy with an Argon in a century last year. He liked it and paired it with a carbon seat. He said it was comfortable.

There are a lot to consider in that price range, especially if you venture into the used market. I have owned a Wilier Izoard (I loved it, but it wasn't stiff enough for me), I still own an Orbea Orca (which is), and rented many others while on trips, including a Look 595 (fantastic bike that the store tried to sell me buy I just bought the Orbea). The funny thing is that when I ride my Seven Ti CX bike, I love the feel of it, and I think it could be the only bike I own.

[jmoore]

Find a used Merckx AXM. Probably the sexiest production carbon frame I've seen.

Looks like Rashid has a couple of 51's in stock with a "make me an offer" price tag!

http://www.queens.co.za/eddymerckx.htm
http://www.queens.co.za/em-frames/AXM%20WHITE-RED.JPG

[tiretrax]

Find a used Merckx AXM. Probably the sexiest production carbon frame I've seen.

Looks like Rashid has a couple of 51's in stock with a "make me an offer" price tag!

http://www.queens.co.za/eddymerckx.htm
http://www.queens.co.za/em-frames/AXM%20WHITE-RED.JPG

Looks a lot like my Orca, IMHO. Regarding their stiffness - I weigh 210 and have never felt it to be too flexy. I've climbed some of the places I used to ride in college - I was always amazed to watch my steel frame flex when out of the saddle.

If you get a used frame, there are plenty of good places to have it fixed. In addition to Calfee, I heard of another one today in SF. I bet there are people who can do it in the northeast, too.

[572cv]

I didn't really have a carbon itch, but was curious enough to make an offer on a v. nice frame that would fit. To my shock, the offer was accepted, at ten cents on the dollar, and I find myself building up a Meivici. You never know. I'm looking forward to riding it. The build is a slow process, but fun. I'm most of the way there. I'll put up pics when its done. Good luck with your hunt, A.S!

[Jeff N.]

Find a Parlee Z1 in your size and you'll never need anything else carbon. Jeff N.

[Jack Brunk]

carbon itch for me. I've tried it all and it's not up to my specs. I've returned from the journey.

Although the new Hard Eddie 29er frame from Intense is sexy. Nevermind.

[benitosan1972]

And they come out of the same factory as Cervélo, for all that it is worth.

this would be my personal red-flag to skip the Jamis ;)

[rustychisel]

carbon itch for me. I've tried it all and it's not up to my specs. I've returned from the journey.


uh huh.... never say never. Come back from the 29er dark side and I'll believe you.

[Jack Brunk]

uh huh.... never say never. Come back from the 29er dark side and I'll believe you.

NEVER RUSTY NEVER! Anything else is LESS!

[firerescuefin]

Jack's the gigolo rock star that wants us to believe...no more drugs and one woman for the rest of his life....:rolleyes:

:fight:

[hokoman]

angry - check out the leopard frameset that was sold on this forum. i bought it, sold it to blantonator and it ended up being an xxs, which is probably your size. blantonator has it now, and we can get it to you pretty easily considering it is on the east coast. and you would still have a ton of money to go on a nice vacation with! :banana: actually, a 51 tt, probably a little too short for you.

[Jack Brunk]

Jack's the gigolo rock star that wants us to believe...no more drugs and one woman for the rest of his life....:rolleyes:

:fight:

Damn I have a lot to over come. No carbon in the garage, titanium mountain, road fixed and steel mountain(all 29er big boy wheels) and on order a Winter Cycles Steel road with goodies added. That's all I got. Jeez!

You guys are hard on a old man.

[djg]

Damn I have a lot to over come. No carbon in the garage, titanium mountain, road fixed and steel mountain(all 29er big boy wheels) and on order a Winter Cycles Steel road with goodies added. That's all I got. Jeez!

You guys are hard on a old man.

That's all you got and that's all you need Jack.

And then sometime in July a fella from Pennsylvania named Tom is gonna send me my new cross ride, a ti super in team colors, and maybe I'll post a picture, and maybe you'll think hmmm . . . cyclocross, it couldn't hurt for me to read about it just a little bit on the Internet . . . oh look, what's this link here, a video . . .

I'm plenty old. If the knee holds up, I'm not going gentle into that good night, I'm going muddy.

[dyerwolf]

I ride a Parlee z5 and am incredibly happy. The bike can do everything these middle aged legs put into it and more. Poke around for your size and you'll be incredibly happy.

[roguedog]

. I'm plenty old. If the knee holds up, I'm not going gentle into that good night, I'm going muddy.

Potd... love this, dig. We can add a pic and then sell it as a poster! :hello:

[beeatnik]

My primary ride is a Litespeed C2, I'm about 4000 miles into ownership.

I like it a lot. Sure it doesn't have the heritage that some people look for, but it's comfortable and the bottom bracket area is probably the largest in the industry. It (feels like it) puts power down like no other bike I've been on. The cockpit stiffness is incredible (probably attributable to the 1.5" lower headset bearing and fork construction), its very confident in the corners with no hints of wavering at all. It really is point and shoot.

One thing that I caution you on (smaller riders specifically) is the toe overlap, but other than that, I've been very happy.

Edit: my basis of comparison isn't great, I've owned only a handful of bikes (and briefly ridden a smattering). '04 Raleigh Team (aluminum frame w/ carbon fork and rear triangle) and '08 Scott CR1 (pre-facelift), but it does do everything better than my previous rides.


I have a Litespeed Archon C1 (check out the gallery). I bought it after nearly pulling the trigger on a Ti Archon and reading the following comprehensive review in WW:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=69784&start=0

The C1, imo, is the best deal in an aero frame. All day comfortable and super stiff. Yes, I know, I sound like a bike mag hack. But I've put in the miles and I'm always amazed at how the bike performs. Honestly, I didn't expect to get so much for my money. Recently, at a bike boutique here in LA, I was gushing about the C1 since the owner had asked my opinion. There were about 5 customers in the store which carries BH Ultralight, Scott Foil, Guru, etc. The owner walked over to the bike and began to point out why it wasn't an $8000 frame (he didn't like the cable routing and said it was a typical asian mold). I mentioned it was stiff. So he grabbed the bars and began to twist them violently. Then he began to stomp on the nds pedal. He looked up with a look of disbelief and said, "um, yeah, this is a pretty stiff bike."

Nice review here of the current model:

http://pelotonmagazine.com/Tested-Bikes/video/8/1322/Litespeed-C1-Video-Review

Finally, if you really want to save some shekels, consider the Pedal Force bikes. One of their frames is the same frame as the Ritte Bosberg, which every single owner claims is the best bike on the planet.

[Elefantino]

but you ought to compare others with the Specialized Roubaix. it just works.
It does, really.

I had one, liked it. Sold it, but would recommend it for someone looking for the feeling of a carbon ride.

[AngryScientist]

Well after some pro and con back and fourth, ordered the Argon 18. For the price I got it for, and the reviews I've read, I think I'll like it. Ultimately I don't think carbon will displace my titanium lust, but something different should be fun. Lot of changes this month, good times. More to come.

[pinkshogun]

i've never had the carbon bug but if i did, i would reach for a Calfee

[firerescuefin]

Well after some pro and con back and fourth, ordered the Argon 18. For the price I got it for, and the reviews I've read, I think I'll like it. Ultimately I don't think carbon will displace my titanium lust, but something different should be fun. Lot of changes this month, good times. More to come.

:cool:...build ideas?

[Germany_chris]

I hope the carbon bug remains in the USA.

[AngryScientist]

:cool:...build ideas?

chorus-11 is all i've decided on so far. carbon wheels of some kind, still weighing the options on that.

[Charles M]

Man, if you were just a little larger I would hook you up.

[firerescuefin]

I hope the carbon bug remains in the USA.

Its a Pandemic from what I hear and Germany has its own "domestic terrorists" in the lab spreading the disease;)

Chris....being a zombie has it's own rewards:cool:

[Nooch]

Man, if you were just a little larger I would hook you up.

I'm a little bit larger!! :)

[tiretrax]

I'm a little bit larger!! :)

Me, too! Maybe a lot larger.