Help for CX : tubulars or tires ? wheels ?

[jerome]

Can you ride a pair of Campy hyperon on a CX bike ?

What are the best CX wheels ?

Tubular or Clincher ?

thank you

[AngryScientist]

were the answers you got in this thread not good enough? i lent some advice in that thread and also asked you a few questions that would be important for better advice. why start a new thread with the same question, and not give any more information? :confused::confused:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=107715

[oldpotatoe]

Can you ride a pair of Campy hyperon on a CX bike ?

What are the best CX wheels ?

Tubular or Clincher ?

thank you

Yes, but poor choice, IMHO.

No 'best', to many variables but standard hubs on Velocity Major Toms makes for some nice cross wheels.

Tubular

[redir]

From my experience racing cross for twelve years now I think that it's a myth to think of cross wheels as taking a beating any more than road wheels. In fact I dare say it could be the other way around. I've ruined more road wheels then cross wheels in that time.

Reason being when you have a cross tire size 32-34 you have a huge cushion of air to bounce around on, you are not going as fast as on the road, and typically you are not in tight drafting packs so you tend to see all potentially harmful obstacles before you hit them and if you do hit them then you have nice cushy tire to ease the impact.

That's IMHO and two cents based on years of racing.

Second part:

Tubulars are best for racing in almost any condition but you have to have the right tire for the job too. If you only have one wheel set than clinchers would be better as you can easily swap out your file tread tire with a mud tread on race day.

But as far as actual racing goes tubulars are hands down superior.

[jerome]

What is the best way to go ?
what are the best wheels in both case ?


thank you for your help

thank you

[weiwentg]

I missed the threads. Two sets of Hyperons, with 32mm Dugasts.

More seriously, my first and so far only cross season I ran Michelin Muds. I did OK. I was just out of the top 10 in the state CX championship, and that was my still developing bike handling, not the Muds (which are clinchers).

I'm getting back in to cross, and I'll probably get another set of Muds. I'm going to get a set of 32h A23 rims. I might convert them to tubeless. Or I might get a set of tubies. I don't know, and I don't really care, because it's more vanity at the entry level. It's the skills and the legs. Of course, maybe you ride at a higher level than I am, I don't know. But I think the advice still applies unless you're at a men's A race, or whatever equivalent wherever you are.

[Bruce K]

Lots of choices

A lot depends on your budget, riding conditions, how seriously you are going to take this, etc

Most of the faster guys are on tubulars - either Dugast or Challenge. Treads differ based on conditions as most all-rounders aren't really good in deep mud

Clinchers are a good way to get started and most tread patterns are available in clincher

Any solidly built wheel will work but the wider rims, like HED C2, allow lower pressures to be used

You might want to look at www.cyclocrossworld.com for some ideas

BK

[jerome]

thank you

I am not racing it much we don't have too many opportunities in the south of France for CX racing.
But I often find me out there for hours riding the hills in Provence, crossing the vineyards , fields, climbing cols on paved and gravel and off roads.
I like the feel riding give to you, I like efficiency.
I am 100% tubulars on roads.

Should I go tubulars or clinchers with my cx ?
I can afford 2 set of wheels.

PS: right now I built me a set of clincher wheels but I have to admit it doesn't give me the thrill of my road tubulars more a blunt ride for me as road clinchers are.

[fourflys]

I've sparingly raced some cross the last couple seasons in Cat4... while I'm sure tubulars might have been more comfy, I don't think not having them kept me off the podium...

I guess it comes down to what you need/want... I didn't really have $$ for multiple wheels sets and I wanted to be able to ride my cross bike on the road as well so I went with clinchers for the versatility... tubulars typically mean you need a dedicated couple sets of wheels with different tires to match the course... and if you want "pit wheels" you need to double that order...

as far as tires go, you need to ask around to the local racers to see what the most popular for that terrain is...

if you are just starting out and don't want to spend a ton on wheels/tires, I'd stick to clinchers if it were me... plus you can set them up tubeless and get just about the same ride I bet...

[jerome]

what would you take to ride a cx bike casually and for training and some occasional racing.
I like riding my cx near as a road bike when I go some where I don't know or can take just one bike, I ride it to explore and ride mixed terrain but I like efficient bike and the feel of the ride.
I am 100% tubular on my road bikes.
No budget strain.
criterions : safety, reliability, efficiency, performances

thank you

[jerome]

how are the Mavic wheels for CX ?
the R-SYS RSL ?
better choice ?

thank you

[Lovetoclimb]

I rode a 15 race season last year on fulcrum 5s with the same challenge grifo clinchers. Only one flat, and I blame faulty installation on my part from swapping rode clinchers on and off since I also commuted on the same bike.

For this season I picked up a used set of tubs: DT 240 hubs laced to Velocity Major Toms. For someone like me who has minimal off road experience, the added traction that is supposedly gained by wider rim beds seems beneficial. And the guy threw in 3 Dugast Typhoon tyres with the wheelset, so those will be primary wheels.

As backups I will take my handbuilt road training wheels and put challenge grifos or some vittoria file tread tyres on depending on the course conditions. These wheels are Record hubs laced to Velocity A-23 rims.

I saw plenty of varying conditions in Ohio, KY, and IN this previous season. Enough to convince me that having two sets of tubs is beneficial once you get to the Cat 1/2 level. Only because on race day, if it's super muddy, you may want to have the mud tyres ready to rock. Typhoons/Grifos work in 95% of other cases from what I saw. Then again I am only just cracking top 10s in Cat 3 races so plenty more to learn.

[Bruce K]

HED Ardennes LT tubulars with Dugast Typhoons is what I just got for the fall

Decent wheel, decent price, good all around tread

BK

[Jawn P]

Get FMBs inteasd of Dugasts. Dugast's quality control ain't too hot, and the sidewall treatment on FMB tires is fantastic.

If you've got a choice, buy two sets of tubular wheels rather than one expensive set. That way you can have an all conditions tire (FMB Grippo XL would be my pick), and a set of mud tires if you're in a wet climate. FMB super muds or Challenge Limus.

[Grant McLean]

From my experience racing cross for twelve years now I think that it's a myth to think of cross wheels as taking a beating any more than road wheels.

I suppose you're referring to the rims.

Just make sure you take care of the hubs if you plan on washing
the bike with a hose or especially water pressure.
The main difference between the cross specific Campagnolo wheels
and cranks is the sealing of the bearings is much tighter.

-g

[rockdude]

From my experience racing cross for twelve years now I think that it's a myth to think of cross wheels as taking a beating any more than road wheels. In fact I dare say it could be the other way around. I've ruined more road wheels then cross wheels in that time.


Disagree.

[jerome]

so what will be your pick ?

tubulars, clinchers ?
why ?
your point interests me a lot

thank you

[fogrider]

Disagree.
I disagree with your disagree which means I agree with the previous comment.

[jerome]

What about ENVE 45 28h w/ DT 240 or CK 45 + Schwable CX Tubulars + sealant ?
Will it be safe, reliable, durable, strong ?
Does the Schwable tubular a good pict to avoid flats as the bike will be aims to long rides more than racing.

I have a second set in mind Ambrosio Nemesis 28h + CK 45 hubs

Comments and advice highly welcome

or should I go for clinchers all the way with Mavic R-Sys ?

[Liv2RideHard]

smart...but you have like 4 threads started on the same subject. Come on man. Reply to your original thread. Stop making new threads with the same title and subject. Do some research on your own. Just sayin man. Not trying to be a jerk just practice a little forum etiquette, that's all.

[Keith A]

FYI, I combined all the discussions into one thread.

[weiwentg]

Disagree.

Either way, I think in most cases, you can simply take your road wheels and simply put them on your cross bike. Unless the build is really light or something. so maybe not Hyperons. but Neutrons, probably. a regular set of 32h wheels, almost certain. Ksyriums, probably.

[rockdude]

so what will be your pick ?

tubulars, clinchers ?
why ?
your point interests me a lot

thank you

I race 30-35 races a year and do a lot of training on CX and shortrack courses though out the year. On average and I destroy at least two wheels a year, haven't destroyed a road wheel in three year of racing and training on the road.

I race on what ever I get cheap. I only race on Tubular, period. But train on clinchers. Its a cost thing. Here is what I have currently

Clincher-
what every wheels I have around (I have maybe 5-7 pair of clinchers wheels). Griffos for CX riding and Bonty jones XR shorttrack.

Tubular- 5 pairs
Nimble fly- Will be putting on Green Muds with FMB casing
Nimble fly- FMB File
zipp 303-Dugust rhino
Bonty Racelite XXX-Duguat Typhoon
Mix pair Bonty & Nimble- Challenge Fango
In addition, I have a pile of broken wheels that I will not race on but have some life left in them.

As I said in an earlier post don't race it if you can't replace it.

[oldpotatoe]

how are the Mavic wheels for CX ?
the R-SYS RSL ?
better choice ?

thank you

Mavic has the very worse rear hub design, and have for over a decade. In dirty, dusty conditions, they will need more than other hub, regular maintenance. Not my first (or second, or third, or fourth.....) choice for cross wheel.

For R-sys, do some research on the interweb about these(front) wheels before I'd be slamming them around in cross.

[rockdude]

Either way, I think in most cases, you can simply take your road wheels and simply put them on your cross bike. Unless the build is really light or something. so maybe not Hyperons. but Neutrons, probably. a regular set of 32h wheels, almost certain. Ksyriums, probably.

I really like Neutrons for CX. Super wheel but very expensive to fix if broken. Broke a spoke last year doing all out training laps and it cost a small ransom to fix.
Ksyriums is a solid wheel but can beat you to death on rough courses.

[Andreas]

I am not racing it much

But I often find me out there for hours riding the hills in Provence.


Racing cyclocross and riding dirt roads are two totally different things.

So you are actually asking what the best wheels tires are not for cyclocross racing but for riding hours on dirt roads it seems?

If you are asking for cx it implies that you race.

What you got were recommendations for racing cyclocross mostly.

Do you want rec's for wheels and tyres for dirt road riding?

[fourflys]

to the OP-
have you talked to ANYONE in your area about this stuff? The local riders are usually the best resource for riding in your area... the tires that work best for me here in SoCal now would be terrible when I move to Alaska...

as far as clincher vs. tubular, you're going to get as many different opinions as their are posters... everyone has a reason for one or the other depending on situation and experience... it sounds like money isn't a barrier so why not just get the tubulars that float your boat and give them a try...

and as others said above, racing cx and riding trails/roads are two different things... racing cross you would typically run a narrower tire than you would want riding trails...

[nebraskacycling]

Yes, but poor choice, IMHO.

No 'best', to many variables but standard hubs on Velocity Major Toms makes for some nice cross wheels.

Tubular

I just got a set of the major tom rims with a set of challenge grifo tires glued on. Luckily I got them for the price of the tires, because the guy wasn't sure if the rims were in the greatest shape. A nice true and they feel great. I'm new to cross this year and just had my first real ride with them yesterday. They felt good, but I think I need to get used to riding with low pressure. Feels wobbly with nearly a flat tire back there (anything under 50 psi). I guess I just need more practice.

Quick question about mounting. Is it easier with your hands on the flat or the hoods? I'm comfortable with dismounting, but mounting is not as easy yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

[redir]

I suppose you're referring to the rims.

Just make sure you take care of the hubs if you plan on washing
the bike with a hose or especially water pressure.
The main difference between the cross specific Campagnolo wheels
and cranks is the sealing of the bearings is much tighter.

-g

Yeah I was definitely thinking more in terms of getting the wheels all banged up. I absolutely hate when promoters think it's cool to put sand pits in a cross course. It's definitely NOT cool to have buy a new chain and re-cabling the whole bike because of a stupid sand pit.

[SpeedyChix]

I just got a set of the major tom rims with a set of challenge grifo tires glued on. Luckily I got them for the price of the tires, because the guy wasn't sure if the rims were in the greatest shape. A nice true and they feel great. I'm new to cross this year and just had my first real ride with them yesterday. They felt good, but I think I need to get used to riding with low pressure. Feels wobbly with nearly a flat tire back there (anything under 50 psi). I guess I just need more practice.

Quick question about mounting. Is it easier with your hands on the flat or the hoods? I'm comfortable with dismounting, but mounting is not as easy yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

My pref is to remount with hands on hoods. Break the entire sequence into a series of practice bits. Practice each. For remount, set bike down, hands to hoods and two steps, mount and really work to look ahead rather than down.

[Bruce K]

Sand pits seem to be in almost every course in New England.:help:

If not a sand pit then a flyover.:mad:

Sometimes both.:crap:

In the end it's all kind of fun.

BK

[nebraskacycling]

My pref is to remount with hands on hoods. Break the entire sequence into a series of practice bits. Practice each. For remount, set bike down, hands to hoods and two steps, mount and really work to look ahead rather than down.

Thanks a bunch! Will try that out.

[fourflys]

Thanks a bunch! Will try that out.

closer to cross season you should have an opportunity to attend a clinic... I highly recommend it...

but, yes I'm a hands on the hood guy for remounts as well... the hardest part in a remount is NOT having a stutter step as you go to hop back on... practice, practice, practice!

:)

[nebraskacycling]

closer to cross season you should have an opportunity to attend a clinic... I highly recommend it...

but, yes I'm a hands on the hood guy for remounts as well... the hardest part in a remount is NOT having a stutter step as you go to hop back on... practice, practice, practice!

:)

Good thing I have all road season to practice my skills :) So I should always dismount and mount to the-non drive side?

[SpeedyChix]

This is a pretty good video on the dismount/remount. You'll see both hand placements on the remount but the "students" are doing hood hand placement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTTOBnu7w-k

Dismounting: typically done non-drive side, keeps you away from the drivetrain. Though we've got a couple of guys around that do driveside dismounts (they're both lefties). It can be a bit of a collision if someone does "opposite" side however it's a skill that's great to work on for both sides. There are occasional courses where it would be great to have the ability to dismount to the right, standard dismount though is to the left.

Going to a clinic is a great way to compress a lot of practice and good learning in a short time.

Practicing all year is a great way to have it be automatic by CX season. Incorporating some dismount/run/remount drills in a ride is both a great drill and is also a great CX-specific workout. Good for mtb riders as well.

Work on the process slowly as you learn it. Get good technique down. Then piece it all together. Gradually work to increase speed.

[Bruce K]

Hardest part of the remount for new folks seems to catching the saddle with your inner thigh and not landing square in the middle

:eek:

BK

[nebraskacycling]

Thanks. Tested my skills Friday and already see major improvements. Can't be much worse then hitting my knee the first time without crashing I guess.