That DA 7800 - it's like buttah

[54ny77]

I have a bike w/Ultegra 6700. Click click click, solid, no muss. Very positive, firm shifts, and crisp.

Used to have SRAM Red, was like shifting straight cut gears. Many like it, obviously, but not my cup o' tea.

Rode my 7800-equipped bike this a.m., haven't done so in awhile. It has full 7800, in perfect condition (lot of it was new old stock). Those shifters.....SO SMOOTH, like buttah! Shifts like a gentle patter....click. Done. Drivetrain: runs silent, runs deep.

What is it about the mechanical/actuation of the 7800 shifter/derail. combo that makes it so smooth? Is 7900 like this as well?

[oldguy00]

Totally agree. Have tried Super Record 11, DA 7900, Red, Force.
I still feel that 7800 was the best functioning of all of them. And the crankset is a jewel (IMHO).

[echelon_john]

i agree. 7700 was damn good and held up beautifully; 7800 was like that with an extra gear. i built up a new bike for myself with 7900 (and lots of other bikes) but took it off and went back to 7800. the 7900 just seems more finicky.

the only part of the 7900 group that i really think is terrific is the crankset.

[TAW]

7900 shifts very well, but the old cable routing of the 7800 is better in my opinion.

[phcollard]

I like my SRAM groupset but the other day I had to tune the GF's bike and I realized that even her 5600 is buttery smooth compared to my bike. :help:

[54ny77]

i do prefer the 6700/7900 hood shape. nice & wide & flat with a little nub on the end. kinda like sram, which i liked as well.

[rain dogs]

Posts like this make me want to try newer dura-ace (try it... I don't like the levers)

The first newer bike I had was a 9 speed Ultegra equipped Cannondale. Got it from the LBS. it shifted very, very nicely, but the front derailleur/shifter action was always just "good"

I later went to Campagnolo Record 10 speed, and felt/still feels like the quality a top-end drivetrain should have. The feel is perfect. The front derailleur is almost unbelievably good. Such and easy click and up in a second (You almost don't feel it go from ring to ring, just enough to know it did).

However, people always write such glowing reviews of shimano shifting. Did I just have a lemon? Is Shimano 10 speed so much better than 9?

Both the drivetrains are so smooth over the cassette, I feel like there would only be a distinction if you're looking for it (and then it's likely all in the mind).

What gives? Was I totally out to lunch? My girlfriend still rides the Ultegra drivetrain and she dislikes it too (compared to her Chorus bike). Her complaint are the levers as well. "Mushy" she calls it, and says she needs to use her whole arm to shift the front.

(PS... this is really not intended to start any flame war, I've just always been curious)

[nightfend]

I like the rear shifting on SRAM Red. It has always functioned well for me and feel fast and precise. But, Shimano has really always had much better front shifting. I'm hoping the new Red derailleur will solve some of my complaints with SRAM front shifting.

[cp43]

.. snip...

However, people always write such glowing reviews of shimano shifting. Did I just have a lemon? Is Shimano 10 speed so much better than 9?

... snip...

When I first got my Serotta I built it up with Ultegra 9 spd. Didn't have much to compare it to, but I never liked the front shifting. I later upgraded it to 7800, and felt that it was a big step up. Front shifting is very smooth, much much better than the 9 spd. So, IMHO, yes Shimano 10 spd is that much better than 9 spd.

I have no experience with Campy though, so I can't help you on that comparison.

Chris

[Ken Robb]

The interesting thing to me about the original post is the only noticeable difference in performance between my 9 speed Ultegra and 9 speed Dura Ace groups was that the DA shifts required a bit more force (still easy) on the levers. This was considered "more positive".

Now I read that in 10 speed Shimano groups DA offers smoother shifts than Ultegra so that must be preferable. I'm not arguing about these perceptions BTW.

As for front shifting I think Campy can be a bit smoother than Shimano on a double crank because when it's set up correctly I just have to move the lever or button all the way to the end of its travel. On a triple I have to kind of feel my way along one click at a time until I get centered on the middle ring. It's not hard to do but it requires a bit of thought/touch.

A full Shimano triple shifts one ring at a time when I move the lever as far as it will go, a no-brainer, although shifting across all three rings requires a second move of the lever.

One reason that I have a slight preference for my Campy stuff is that when I run different cranks/rings than 52-42-30 or 52-39-30 in a Shimano system I have to back trim one half-click to get centered on the middle ring. The Campy shifters just require that deft touch to usually get it right the first time with the option of trimming back a click or two when I blow it.

I have 9 speed Record, 10 speed Chorus, 9 speed Ultegra now and have had 7800 53-39 and 50-34, DA 7700 52-39-30 and 48-38-28. They ALL worked just fine but my favorite is my alloy 10 speed Chorus that came on my CSi as a double. Then it was on my Kirk with TA Zephyr 48-38-28. It's now in my stash because the custom bike I was saving it for was never built.

I play with the idea of swapping it with the 9 speed Record on my Hampsten but the 9 speed works so well I haven't bothered--yet. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have that 13-29 cassette instead of 13-26 9 speed--or put the 48-38-28 cranks in place of the 50-34 compact on it now. OTOH I'm pretty lazy so it won't happen this week.:)

[TAW]

10 speed Shimano is most improved over 9 speed because of the front shifting. I had 9 speed DA for many years and it worked well, but the 10 speed front shifting and the braking in general is better than the 9 speed stuff.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I have Ultegra 6700, Dura Ace 7900, and had Dura Ace 7800 for several years on a bike. Can't really say that I prefer the shifting of one over the other. They all shifted very good. However, I absolutely detested the shape of the 7800 hoods, so much so, that I changed them out for 6700 shifters.

[Andreas]

The "buttery" feeling is to some degree a function of age - it feels more butter-oid as you put more miles on it.

After I rebuild my 7800 shifters the shifting was less butteresque, than they became more buttery again.

[Bob Loblaw]

Agreed. Routing the cables under the bar tape (by any manufacturer) is a triumph of form over function. There's not a loser in the bunch, but 7800 remains my favorite group of all time. Effortless, precise, quiet, and reliable as gravity no matter the temperature, weather, humidity, or age of the cables. And it's also a piece of cake to replace shifter cables...no need to remove the bar tape.

There have been some comments about 9-speed, and the front shift in particular. I'm actually a big fan of Shimano 9-speed groups from 105 to DA. I have logged a lot of miles on 5500, 6500 and a few on 7700 groups. The shifter throw is slightly shorter than the 10s groups, and it's easy to set the FD on most bikes (double chainrings at least) to work without the need to trim it.

BL

7900 shifts very well, but the old cable routing of the 7800 is better in my opinion.

[crupshaw]

All this talk of 7800 Dura Ace is making me really want to upgrade. Does anyone have an old 7800 group laying around they might be willing to part with at a reasonable price? I mainly just need the shifters, F&R derails. (braze-on front).

[Rada]

I love DA 7800. Best group ever made IMO. DA 7700 crankset looks much better though.

[BdaGhisallo]

As a Shimano lover, I have to say they have been all over the shop with their recent efforts. They seem to progress and regress over the same product cycle change. I agree with the consensus that 7800 was the pinnacle of Shimano's mechanical shifting actuation. The lever mechanism and the shift feel are unsurpassed. The shape wasn't that great, though. 7900 chain/cog shifting movements are top notch, imo. 7900's shift feel and lever mechanism suck ass though. The 7900 chainrings and brakes are great but everything else about that group is so-so. DI2 has the best lever shape. Love it! The shifting is great too, of course. The absolute jewel in all of it is the 7800 crankset. Some thinks it looks evil, but for me it's the most beautiful component I've ever seen.

[bigman]

Agree 7800 is tops, 6600 not much different.

[Sandy]

i agree. 7700 was damn good and held up beautifully; 7800 was like that with an extra gear. i built up a new bike for myself with 7900 (and lots of other bikes) but took it off and went back to 7800. the 7900 just seems more finicky.

the only part of the 7900 group that i really think is terrific is the crankset.

I have the 7800 group except a compact crankset. Did Shimano ever make a 7800 compact crankset? If not, can I use a 7900 compact crankset with the rest of the 7800 (may purchase a new bike). If not, what compact crankset would you or anyone suggest?)


Cranky Sandy

Thanks!!

[54ny77]

no but if they did i'd buy a few of 'em to hoard.

loves me the 7800 cranks. got 2 of 'em, both new old stock & mounted on bikes. fyi, crankskins clear pre-cut film protects the arms/spider very well.

i just picked up a 6700 compact. could take it or leave it in the looks dep't. chose it over 7900 compact only because the color more closely matched the ti tubing which it sits adjacent to.

I have the 7800 group except a compact crankset. Did Shimano ever make a 7800 compact crankset? If not, can I use a 7900 compact crankset with the rest of the 7800 (may purchase a new bike). If not, what compact crankset would you or anyone suggest?)


Cranky Sandy

Thanks!!

[echelon_john]

7950 compact crank works perfectly with 7800

I have the 7800 group except a compact crankset. Did Shimano ever make a 7800 compact crankset? If not, can I use a 7900 compact crankset with the rest of the 7800 (may purchase a new bike). If not, what compact crankset would you or anyone suggest?)


Cranky Sandy

Thanks!!

[Sandy]

no but if they did i'd buy a few of 'em to hoard.

loves me the 7800 cranks. got 2 of 'em, both new old stock & mounted on bikes. fyi, crankskins clear pre-cut film protects the arms/spider very well.

i just picked up a 6700 compact. could take it or leave it in the looks dep't. chose it over 7900 compact only because the color more closely matched the ti tubing which it sits adjacent to.

Thanks for such a speedy response!! Appreciate it.



Sandy

[54ny77]

I'm desperately fighting a (losing) battle with myself to keep the 39x28 while using 7800 cranks, but my body tells me otherwise....;)

Thanks for such a speedy response!! Appreciate it.
Sandy

[BillG]

I've got 7800 on one of my bikes, Campy 10 speed record on another, and DI2 on a third (and a Rohloff on the fourth, and the fifth is a fixie/SS!). DI2 is in a different league for smooth shifting, but I've always liked Record shifting better than 7800. 7800 is great, don't get me wrong. Different strokes -- or different shifts -- for different folks!

[54ny77]

I toyed around with a Di2 bike the other week. Pretty darned cool stuff.

If it got affordable (a relative term), I'd probably consider it, likely in Ultegra form or used DA. But, I hate the half-assed retrofit look of electrical tape holding down wires and all the other crap that goes with it, particularly on the frame I'd mount it to. Zip ties, really? Pass. The novelty is not that strong of a pull.

I've got 7800 on one of my bikes, Campy 10 speed record on another, and DI2 on a third (and a Rohloff on the fourth, and the fifth is a fixie/SS!). DI2 is in a different league for smooth shifting, but I've always liked Record shifting better than 7800. 7800 is great, don't get me wrong. Different strokes -- or different shifts -- for different folks!

[BillG]

I toyed around with a Di2 bike the other week. Pretty darned cool stuff.

If it got affordable (a relative term), I'd probably consider it, likely in Ultegra form or used DA. But, I hate the half-assed retrofit look of electrical tape holding down wires and all the other crap that goes with it, particularly on the frame I'd mount it to. Zip ties, really? Pass. The novelty is not that strong of a pull.

I had Calfee modify my Merckx MXM. It wasn't expensive, the battery is now attached to the seatpost and the wiring is internal and it's awesome. Totally clean look. It's a luxury, but fancy bikes are in general. I love never having to worry about cable stretch, and no fd rubbing.

[54ny77]

probably a dumb question, but how do you "trim" the electrical wire for install to the proper length?

I had Calfee modify my Merckx MXM. It wasn't expensive, the battery is now attached to the seatpost and the wiring is internal and it's awesome. Totally clean look. It's a luxury, but fancy bikes are in general. I love never having to worry about cable stretch, and no fd rubbing.

[BillG]

probably a dumb question, but how do you "trim" the electrical wire for install to the proper length?

Calfee installed the harness.

[Sandy]

7950 compact crank works perfectly with 7800

Thanks. Good to know for later.


Not too cranky,



Shifting Stellar Shimano STI Serotta Sandy

[oldpotatoe]

I have a bike w/Ultegra 6700. Click click click, solid, no muss. Very positive, firm shifts, and crisp.

Used to have SRAM Red, was like shifting straight cut gears. Many like it, obviously, but not my cup o' tea.

Rode my 7800-equipped bike this a.m., haven't done so in awhile. It has full 7800, in perfect condition (lot of it was new old stock). Those shifters.....SO SMOOTH, like buttah! Shifts like a gentle patter....click. Done. Drivetrain: runs silent, runs deep.

What is it about the mechanical/actuation of the 7800 shifter/derail. combo that makes it so smooth? Is 7900 like this as well?

shimano revamped the shift innards to mimic XTR/XT but left the housing out, made for some nice and more reliable shifters. 7900 works very well, shift innards ala 6700 and 5700, but with internal housing, effort is a wee bit higher but still very good.