Rapha CEO Interview

[Lovetoclimb]

I thought this was very well conducted. The web-page as a whole is beautifully laid out too. Maybe I need to go buy a new jersey or jacket now . . .

http://www.ktcquality.com/manufacture/brands_rapha.html

[Fixed]

Sounds like a cool guy
Cheers

[fiamme red]

There is a lot of myth making regarding Chinese production and equally there’s a lot of truth. From a political point of view I have as much concern as anybody but for that matter, I have concerns about the United States too.

As long as the companies we work with are doing the best possible work to the right standards and ethics then they are the right people for us and it doesn’t matter whether they are in China or Mexico or Somerset – if they are the right people then we want to work with them.Nice! Of course it has nothing to do with profit margins. :rolleyes:

[thenewguy11]

I enjoyed the article as well. Its telling that he's a brand builder first and a manufacturer second. And I don't think anything is wrong with that. I'll probably get flamed a bit, but I like the Rapha brand. All the cheezy copy, the pictures of guys without helmets riding in the rain, the colors and design. I think its cool and want to be a part of it - so I buy Rapha gear.

It helps that it works well and fits, but there are lots of cycling clothes that do the same and cost a bit less. I'm willing to pay for the brand - there I said it.

[fiamme red]

Interesting quotes:

This is how it feels and yet I go to the bike shop and all they have are hideous jerseys, some Japanese technology and some spotty kid who doesn’t really get it and doesn’t understand why it is so appealing. [What's wrong with Japanese technology? :confused: ]

I would think why am I squeezing into a bright yellow Assos jersey that makes me look like a spaceman and only makes me look good one day a year when I am tanned and I have lost a bit of weight. Why am I doing this? This sport should make me look great and make feel great so lets make a better product.

Cycling is really tough and yet everyone was only selling £40-£50 jerseys and therefore they were crap and made from rubbish materials. Their features were terrible and not very well thought through. We thought, lets change all that.

[jmoore]

Great article.

The more I read about Rapha, the more I like them.

I've never heard a bad word about quality with their gear. Ultimately I'm afraid to take the plunge because I'm sure I'll like it and then it will cost me a fortune to replace my other gear.

[witcombusa]

Rapha has nothing for me

I dislike the brand on several different levels



If I may use a quote from Caddyshack...

"Oh, it looks good on you though."

[Viper]

Rapha
We are the 1%
With our 99% wool
Rapha - We care, for your money

:beer:

[Louis]

"Image is everything."

(to quote Andre Agassi)

[FlashUNC]

Great article.

The more I read about Rapha, the more I like them.

I've never heard a bad word about quality with their gear. Ultimately I'm afraid to take the plunge because I'm sure I'll like it and then it will cost me a fortune to replace my other gear.

Their bibs are the best I've ever used. I'll gladly fork the cash over for that kind of stuff.

[fiamme red]

Quote from Jan Heine:

We found out once again that different cycling jackets perform very differently in cold conditions. My Gore Bike Wear jacket (and the three layered wool jerseys underneath) kept me dry and warm, whereas Hahn’s jacket is made by a company that promises “to celebrate the suffering unique to road riders.” It lived up to the promise: When we arrived in Forks for a brief stop at a convenience store, Hahn was covered in sweat, cold and much worse for wear.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/fleche-24-hour-ride/

[PQJ]

Nice article. Guy seems genuinely passionate about the sport and motivated to promote and grow it. What's not to like?

(Oh, and they also put out functional, well made and stylish gear.)

[majl]

Rapha looks pretty good to me.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj117/majl160/Forums/014_VeloURG.jpg

[CunegoFan]

Interesting quotes:

This is how it feels and yet I go to the bike shop and all they have are hideous jerseys, some Japanese technology and some spotty kid who doesn’t really get it and doesn’t understand why it is so appealing. [What's wrong with Japanese technology? :confused: ]

It costs more than Chinese and it cannot be branded with phony images of people pretending that they are riding in 1955 even though the company would not exist until fifty years later..

I would think why am I squeezing into a bright yellow Assos jersey that makes me look like a spaceman and only makes me look good one day a year when I am tanned and I have lost a bit of weight. Why am I doing this? This sport should make me look great and make feel great so lets make a better product.

So...Assos for the fit, slim, and tanned. Rapha, for the tubby, out of shape, and pasty skinned.

Cycling is really tough and yet everyone was only selling £40-£50 jerseys and therefore they were crap and made from rubbish materials. Their features were terrible and not very well thought through. We thought, lets change all that.

Evidently, even though the workers are being paid fifty cents an hour, it's impossible to make a quality jersey for $80. Rapha says so. Unless it costs enough that a single worker could spend three monthss of full time work making one jersey then it is crap.

[Jaq]

I'm thinking... 7 pages with this one.

[fiamme red]

Rapha looks pretty good to me.Not so good to me. :p

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/02/article-2123998-126E7555000005DC-565_468x631.jpg

[majl]

Not so good to me. :p

Touché! ;)

[jpw]

I've never tried on even a single piece of Rapha gear. Stripping away the branding 'halo', is what remains (the gear) of quality?

How does it compare to Assos and Castelli, and Pearl and GBW?

[William]

For some reason....this thread reminds me of watches. http://forums.psychcentral.com/images/smiliesb/Scratch-Head.gif




William

[FlashUNC]

I've never tried on even a single piece of Rapha gear. Stripping away the branding 'halo', is what remains (the gear) of quality?

How does it compare to Assos and Castelli, and Pearl and GBW?

I prefer their shorts to Assos, Castelli, anything else I've worn. The jerseys and other kit are debatable, but they've got me as a lifetime shorts customer.

[beeatnik]

I used to wear the stuff. Now I'm glad I'm not the one guy on the ride in head-to-toe Rapha. Reverse snobbery? I just woke up one morning felt manipulated (like a 16 year old girl yearning for a Coach bag) realized that they strike me as phony and began to see their marketing as even more obnoxious than any billboard kit. More importantly, their kit is not compatible with my style of riding. It seems Rapha has realized this as they're finally introducing true "performance" pieces.

I do give Rapha credit for being a type of gateway drug. They made me more willing to spend a little extra coin for Assos or even custom kit. My loved ones thank them for that.

And finally, the azz cream is a terrific product. Made in England, I believe.

[sg8357]

I'm thinking... 7 pages with this one.

I bet you a 6 pack that it makes it past 8.

Rapha Raggin'(tm) is the 21st century version of the Spindle grease thread wars.

[benb]

The idea that you can't make jerseys for less then $100 that are high quality is a laugh.

I've got some Louis Garneau jerseys which were <$80 which are 10 years old and could be resold as "New Old Stock" even though they've been worn and washed hundreds of times.

I don't think they had to be made in China to get good quality either!

Everything about Rapha is too fake for me.

[CNY rider]

I bet you a 6 pack that it makes it past 8.

Rapha Raggin'(tm) is the 21st century version of the Spindle grease thread wars.

I'm with you. I would bet the ranch on the "over" for this thread.

[Nooch]

anyone pick up the shoes today?

[saab2000]

anyone pick up the shoes today?

Not yet. But I expect to do so. I like their stuff and make no apologies.

Everyone here either rides overpriced bikes or wishes they did. We are into a hedonistic experience in this sport or we wouldn't be here.

I do not drive a $75,000 car or living a $800K house. I'll bet some folks here do both. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with liking Rapha either.

[fiamme red]

anyone pick up the shoes today?Don't forget, if you buy the shoes, you need the aromatic cedar shoe trees to go with them ($10 more than Allen Edmonds shoe trees, by the way).

http://www.rapha.cc/rapha-shoe-trees

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3224-08.jpg

[Louis]

I do not drive a $75,000 car or living a $800K house. I'll bet some folks here do both. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with liking Rapha either.

Everyone can't do it, otherwise who'd mow the lawn and flip the burgers?

[Fixed]

erika's rapha
that jacket sure looks ..um ......
... it fits well



imho
cheers :)

[saab2000]

Everyone can't do it, otherwise who'd mow the lawn and flip the burgers?

I can't do it either. I'm just a fancy bus driver and earn a helluva lot less than most people think. But that's beside the point. I like my fancy bike stuff and find ways to own cool toys to ride and fancy threads to wear when I ride.

It's all good. Ride what you like. Don't ride what you don't like. :beer:

[jpw]

erika's rapha
that jacket sure looks ..um ......
... it fits well



imho
cheers :)

About that Jacket. What are those black strips for at the shoulders?

[Fixed]

About that Jacket. What are those black strips for at the shoulders?

don't know (neck closure? ) but i like the zipper
cheers :)

[benitosan1972]

I'm thinking... 7 pages with this one.

Possibly, a conservative bet

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

About that Jacket. What are those black strips for at the shoulders?

There's black strips? :rolleyes:

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

The idea that you can't make jerseys for less then $100 that are high quality is a laugh.

I've got some Louis Garneau jerseys which were <$80 which are 10 years old and could be resold as "New Old Stock" even though they've been worn and washed hundreds of times.

I don't think they had to be made in China to get good quality either!

Everything about Rapha is too fake for me.

+1. For me, it's Santini. And Castelli of a few years ago, recent quality has been lacking. I don't own any Rapha. Can't say I never would, but what I use works, at a lower price point.

[Chris]

So...none of you guys are on anything nicer than a CAAD 9 right?

[witcombusa]

So...none of you guys are on anything nicer than a CAAD 9 right?

nothing "nicer" about Rapha......sorry

[Viper]

Don't forget, if you buy the shoes, you need the aromatic cedar shoe trees to go with them ($10 more than Allen Edmonds shoe trees, by the way).

"I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that."
~Lloyd Dobler

I have four pair of Allen Edmonds shoes. Allen Edmond's marketing isn't a line of utter black and white pics with nonsense. Shoes. Leather. Handmade. USA. Took care of peeps in WWII. They last forever and tell me if this isn't a brand people would stand with, literally:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Edmonds

I buy the cheapest pairs of cedar tress on ebay. I try to eat enough fiber, daily. You can only do so much. But with Rapha, it's the marketing hype I cannot buy, not for a dime or a nickel. I know they have New England and other parts of the country somewhat brain-washed. Their marketing and free beer is a powerful tool. If someone wears their stuff I never offend them and hey, if they like Rapha, it's all good. But I still do not like the company, the image, the faux-we-care-campaigns and I don't drink that much so free beer ain't my cup of tea.

cliffs:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEgu7jdc_fs

:beer:

[Chris]

nothing "nicer" about Rapha......sorry

That's kinda the point. Who made you judge? Some people like it and some people don't. The value is in the eye of the beholder. More people spend their time hating on a brand that no one is forcing them to buy. These threads end up going on for pages thanks to haters like you espousing your opinion and it does nothing but provide exposure for the brand. I'm sure they love you for it. Strong work.

[tiretrax]

Yes, their marketing is somewhat over the top, but that's what marketing is for. Try their kit. It's fantastic, especially the shorts. If their kit is too expensive, get a used piece (here or ebay) or wait for their sale and get an additional discount from a code posted here. Truly, it's not that much more expensive than a lot of other stuff that's out there now, such as PI pro wear.

I find it funny that people on a board that started out as an adjunct to one of the more expensive bespoke framemakers complain about Rapha's prices. There are plenty of overhyped framemakers out there, but they get worshiped and idolized. I've not read many, if any, posts that slam them.

[pdmtong]

I enjoyed reading that. Thanks for posting it up.

BTW the yak shoes are available TODAY!

[PQJ]

Yup, similarly befuddled (and bemused) by the intense hate. Data point for the so-called haters: that I own and like Rapha has nothing at all to do with any of their marketing. I've never seen a Rapha video nor even that many Rapha ads. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't get swayed by marketing one way or the other. If something piques my interest, I'll give it a shot. If I don't like it, that'll be the end of it. Who gives a rats ass about their marketing, anyway?

To the poster who asked if it's good - yes, it's very good. Easily a perfect substitute for Assos. I've not tried Castelli or high-end PI, so can't comment on that. It's way better than PI's lower end stuff, and it's better than Giordana's mid-range stuff. "Better," in my opinion, but not necessarily yours.

If you don't like Rapha - marketing or otherwise - it's as simple as not looking or buying. Oh yeah, and you can exercise your free speech rights to hate all you want, but it's really kind of silly. And more than a little disingenuous given where and who most of us are.

EDITED TO ADD: Come to think of it, I have tried a Castelli piece. Bought a summer weight jersey that looked and felt great. But it started to smell - horribly - after only a few rides, and the smell never went away. Never had that with any other kit, cheap or expensive. Ergo, no more Castelli for me.

[54ny77]

Amen to that.

I've got a quite a few friends who are likely to see the second coming of Christ before they see their frame from said builders, or have gone through such an awful build/delivery process it taints their ownership.

Add that topic in with Rapha bashing and this could set an all time post/view record. ;)

[edit: p.s., Assos dwarfs Rapha in the price category. I guess it's Rapha's marketing that either turns people off or gets them interested. Sounds like it's effective marketing either way.]

There are plenty of overhyped framemakers out there, but they get worshiped and idolized. I've not read many, if any, posts that slam them.

[Louis]

anyone pick up the shoes today?

I'm holding out for the baby seal skin shoes.

[carlineng]

Rapha fan here. Primarily because their kits, unlike so many other premium cycling brands, do not look terrible.

Seriously, what the eff is this :confused: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2012-assos-heritage-pack-8711.4.1.html

Just one man's opinion.

[54ny77]

Feel like a man, for $290.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2012-assos-ss.13-short-sleeve-jersey-9288.7.0.html

"Not unlike life itself, few indisputable truths exist in the world of cycling. The good news, though, is that those few truths do indeed exist, and one of them is this: Assos is singly responsible for the existence of the high end cycling apparel market, and without their creativity and fashion sense we'd probably all be riding in Pearl Izumi's rough-hewn 6-panel Ultrasensor shorts and that Primal Wear jersey with the frog on it. Thanks to Assos, though, not only can we ride in extraordinary comfort (in any weather, on any length ride), but we can stop mid-ride at the coffee shop and hold our heads high as we click-clack past the table full of feverishly-gossiping, Macchiato-sipping, Sequoia-driving, "maybe I'll take a Yoga class"-thinking soccer moms who, in fact, look better after 2 kids at age 35 than they did in college. Thank you Assos. You let us feel like men."

[fuzzalow]

Seriously, what the eff is this :confused: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2012-assos-heritage-pack-8711.4.1.html

Assos was the supplier of the jerseys for Renault ELF Gitane team. Real articles of clothing made by Assos used by a real pro cycling team. As far back as the 1980's. So if Assos wants to flaunt some of their Pro Tour credibility as cycling panache, I think they have earned it for over the 30 years they have been a participant in the sport.

Rapha trumpets cycling panache on the vibe of cycling tradition they had no part of. Co opt the emotion to sell the clothes.

But ultimately and either way, it's just an article of clothing. Rapha or Assos or whatever, wear what you want.

[54ny77]

actually, if you look at the photos from days gone by, it was le coq sportif and castelli whose logos were on gitane gear. i had a wool gitane jersey way back when, but for the life of me dunno who made it. same for del tongo. damn those were good lookin' jerseys.

could be that assos was in the mix as the actual maker, but unbranded?

Assos was the supplier of the jerseys for Renault ELF Gitane team. Real articles of clothing made by Assos used by a real pro cycling team. As far back as the 1980's. So if Assos wants to flaunt some of their Pro Tour credibility as cycling panache, I think they have earned it for over the 30 years they have been a participant in the sport.

Rapha trumpets cycling panache on the vibe of cycling tradition they had no part of. Co opt the emotion to sell the clothes.

But ultimately and either way, it's just an article of clothing. Rapha or Assos or whatever, wear what you want.

[witcombusa]

That's kinda the point. Who made you judge? Some people like it and some people don't. The value is in the eye of the beholder. More people spend their time hating on a brand that no one is forcing them to buy. These threads end up going on for pages thanks to haters like you espousing your opinion and it does nothing but provide exposure for the brand. I'm sure they love you for it. Strong work.

So you think the thread is better served if only those drinking the Kool Aid responded. If everyone thought the same way, where would the "discussion" come from???

[carlineng]

Assos was the supplier of the jerseys for Renault ELF Gitane team. Real articles of clothing made by Assos used by a real pro cycling team. As far back as the 1980's. So if Assos wants to flaunt some of their Pro Tour credibility as cycling panache, I think they have earned it for over the 30 years they have been a participant in the sport.

Rapha trumpets cycling panache on the vibe of cycling tradition they had no part of. Co opt the emotion to sell the clothes.


It's cool that Assos is a part of cycling tradition, but that doesn't make the jersey any less fugly.


But ultimately and either way, it's just an article of clothing. Rapha or Assos or whatever, wear what you want.


Cheers to that.

[Rueda Tropical]

Assos as a company has been driven by engineering and innovation rather then marketing -although to stay successful at the high end it looks like that is changing. Got to change with the times to stay in business.

The fact that Assos produce apparel at all was a byproduct of their work on cycling aerodynamics and what may have been the first Carbon fiber bicycle (mid 1970's). They introduced lycra and advanced technical fabrics into cycling pretty much inventing modern cycling kit.

I must say though that I am digging Rapha's new Colombian super-light jersey. The reworking of the Cafe de Colombia logo with a beetle with coffee bean body is super cool.
http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3074--49.jpg

Referring to the Colombian climbers as Escarabajos (beetles) began when famous sports announcer Carlos Arthur Wheel in the 1953 Vuelta a Colombia referred to cyclist Ramón Hoyos as a "escarabajo de las montañas". A year later the Mexican Sports Daily Esto headline for the Vuelta a México read "Llegan Los 'escarabajos'" (the beetles have arrived) and the term stuck.

Rapha is known for mining cycling lore for it's marketing/apparel and they made good use of this bit of history with this jersey.

Check out the pics at this link of ESCARABAJOS DE DOS RUEDAS http://www.banrepcultural.org/blaavirtual/revistas/credencial/enero2005/escarabajos.htm

[majorpat]

Hey, man I ride a CAAD8!
If you want to try Rapha, try a Torm jersey. Pretty much a copy of Rapha at half the price, guess they don't need to cover costs for "epicness".
Look, if you're riding a bike these days you'll get a wave from me regardless of what you are sporting for duds.
Pat

[Kirk007]

So you think the thread is better served if only those drinking the Kool Aid responded. If everyone thought the same way, where would the "discussion" come from???

Discussion is good. one and two word put downs creating an "is to - is not" hissy fit without explanation do not make a discussion. I'm interested in why you dislike the brand so much - it it marketing or something about the pieces themselves?

[rwsaunders]

I purchased one of their jerseys a while back during the big sale and I went over that piece with a proverbial magnifying glass looking for flaws...nadda. I even had my Mother (seamstress extraordinaire) take a look at it and she commented on the quaility of the workmanship. I never ended up wearing the piece and sold it because it seemed to be too damn nice to abuse. Irish Catholic guilt I guess.

Their specific marketing focus is brilliant if you think about it and the CEO's candidness regarding the story that they try to tell is to be commended. I have never heard one negative word regarding their customer service and the bashing is usually is focused on the manufacturing location and the cost, not the performance. Oh well, how many pages are we up to?:cool:

[witcombusa]

Discussion is good. one and two word put downs creating an "is to - is not" hissy fit without explanation do not make a discussion. I'm interested in why you dislike the brand so much - it it marketing or something about the pieces themselves?

It's both their view of themselves and the image they are trying to sell.
It's also way over promoted. Good products sell themselves....

I don't personally like their style but that and the prices are not my issue with them.

[PQJ]

It's also way over promoted. Good products sell themselves....


Any company has to start somewhere and somehow. It's tough being a startup. I get that one might not like the way the product looks or works. Or that it's expensive. Or even that it's made in China. But all this harping on marketing and image is just downright silly.

[rustychisel]

It's both their view of themselves and the image they are trying to sell.
It's also way over promoted. Good products sell themselves....

I don't personally like their style but that and the prices are not my issue with them.


doing my bit to get to 7, or 8.

Yes, this... "It's also way over promoted. Good products sell themselves...." but the gear itself is good, I have a jersey which is very comfortable and look forward sometime to purchasing some knicks, thinking they'll be as comfortable of long wearing as the Assos I held out against for many years. I was wrong. Assos and Rapha are great kit, and their marketing message blows chunks. I know there's an imputation comes with it but I ride for me, no-one else.

PS: every fat bastard who pulls on a Cavendish Highroads or a Cadel BMC replica kit before his ride is putting out a message too. The imputation to me is 'dumbass fanboy', but that's not really my problem, is it?

[fuzzalow]

actually, if you look at the photos from days gone by, it was le coq sportif and castelli whose logos were on gitane gear. i had a wool gitane jersey way back when, but for the life of me dunno who made it. same for del tongo. damn those were good lookin' jerseys.

could be that assos was in the mix as the actual maker, but unbranded?

I remember some of the Coq Sportif logos during the Hinault / Renault Gitane era. Still wool then. All the Assos stuff was from the Fignon years and later (i.e. System U). Don't think Assos ever made wool, they vanguarded the whole synthetics & lycra transformation in cycling clothing.


PS: every fat bastard who pulls on a Cavendish Highroads or a Cadel BMC replica kit before his ride is putting out a message too. The imputation to me is 'dumbass fanboy', but that's not really my problem, is it?
Sure, as long as you keep the judgmental comment to yourself.;) The irony is you have more in common with 'dumbass fanboy' than you do with the text-messaging dimwit in a SUV with whom you both share the road with.

There's always somebody faster, thinner, richer, smarter...

[rustychisel]

quite right. I don't.:cool:

[Jaq]

Any company has to start somewhere and somehow. It's tough being a startup. I get that one might not like the way the product looks or works. Or that it's expensive. Or even that it's made in China. But all this harping on marketing and image is just downright silly.

But it's not. Of course, everyone has to start somewhere, and to be honest I have no idea how brash Le Coq or Descente or Pearl or Castelli or Assos or Giordana were in their early days, but what seems to chap most peoples' hides is that Rapha has proclaimed themselves to be the Second Coming. They've literally gone on record as saying that cycling was uncool before they showed up (or, to be more precise, that they wanted to make cycling "cool.")

They claim to be innovators and originators, but of what? Button-holes for iPod headphones? It's not as if they invented clipless pedals or index shifting or 11-speed drive-trains. They haven't come up with some miracle fabric. And as others have pointed out, they represent themselves as being steeped in tradition, yet in truth, they have none. They're off to a good start with the 'Cross championships a couple months back, but in the mean time, they write coy little stories on the insides of their garments as if to suggest some link, some legacy, between themselves and the heroes of their anecdotes. Yet at the same time, they continuously reject the past - the eras those very same heroes forged with sweat and blood - as uncool and primitive.

Then there's the hypocrisy of their "common man" stance. They hold themselves out to be champions of the "everyman" cyclist, defending his interests, guarding his spirit. Yet not only is their stuff ridiculously expensive, but they suggest that if you wear something for a half or a third the cost, you're draping yourself in garbage, and you're the lesser for it.

Personally, I think their clothing's beautiful; I'm sure it's the equal of any high-end kit out there. But their attitude sucks. They don't even call their dealers "bike shops" but "bike studios." It's as pretentious as it is risible.

Rapha isn't baby Jesus, and they aren't spitting in the eye of the traditionalists, showing us the way to a better truth, or absolving our sport of original sin. They're just douchebags with really, really nice stuff.

[dustyrider]

I've got no dogs in this race, but wanted to make sure someone doesn't loose the "ranch" or a six pack. And thought it'd be fun to post in a thread that has such huge potential.

I can tell you that I know the make of about 85% of the bikes I see, who's riding them and what their wearing I have'nt a clue. I have a hard enough time remembering to put on all the required gear just to get out the door, and I'll be darned if I don't end up having to turn the bike around for my gloves.

[bobswire]

Hey, man I ride a CAAD8!
If you want to try Rapha, try a Torm jersey. Pretty much a copy of Rapha at half the price, guess they don't need to cover costs for "epicness".
Look, if you're riding a bike these days you'll get a wave from me regardless of what you are sporting for duds.
Pat

Thanks for heads up, Torm looks like nice stuff and maybe something I can afford. I really like the looks of Rapha but really can't afford them.
I did score the Rapha P-R Challenge Jersey and some arm warmers but those were a special edition and at much lower price than their standard issue.

[William]

What I think of Rapha is........







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that I will do my part to string this thread out.;)







William

[Rueda Tropical]

It's also way over promoted. Good products sell themselves....



Actually that's hardly ever true. Smart marketing will beat smart engineering every time. VHS crushed Beta. Windows crushed the original Mac OS, etc, etc, etc..

[jlwdm]

Hey, man I ride a CAAD8!
If you want to try Rapha, try a Torm jersey. Pretty much a copy of Rapha at half the price, guess they don't need to cover costs for "epicness".
Look, if you're riding a bike these days you'll get a wave from me regardless of what you are sporting for duds.
Pat

For me Torm just doesn't work. Their stripes don't look right. Rapha's do.

Jeff

[Earl Gray]

For some reason....this thread reminds me of watches. http://forums.psychcentral.com/images/smiliesb/Scratch-Head.gif




William

It's hard to bash Rapha when you are wearing a Tag.

[Viper]

It's hard to bash Rapha when you are wearing a Tag.

You need a Rapha bracelet.

cliffnotes = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p8wDhK5LyY

:banana:

[Louis]

Would the Rapha marketing folks be disappointed, and perhaps even a bit worried, if a "bash Rapha" thread got only a few desultory replies? Granted much of the commentary is tongue-in-cheek, but the very fact that folks bother to rise to the bait must mean something.

[Viper]

Would the Rapha marketing folks be disappointed, and perhaps even a bit worried, if a "bash Rapha" thread got only a few desultory replies? Granted much of the commentary is tongue-in-cheek, but the very fact that folks bother to rise to the bait must mean something.

You should Paypal to the 'Buy Earl Gray the Rapha Bracelet' Fund. Yes, for $489.00 each, we can make it happen. That's not a typo, four-hundred, eighty-nine dollars and zero cents. Ten people, step right up. We can do it. Earl Gray. Rapha. Bracelet.

Together - you and Rapha
Stopping the world
From fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrh8TCzic_8&feature=fvst

:banana: Rapha :banana:

[Louis]

Link to NYT Story (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/dining/an-economists-theories-plot-a-course-for-good-food.html)

Bottom line: Buy stuff where you're paying for the function (in this case good food) not the bling. (Unless the bling is what you really want, in which case, knock yourself out.) However, I can see how some folks might want to pay for a "happy" atmosphere.

Economic Theory Plots a Course for Good Food

By DAMON DARLIN

ALEXANDRIA, Va.

TAKE a renowned economist to lunch, and you learn a few things. For instance, if you dine where children are among the patrons, you can count on bad food.
:
:
Tyler Cowen, an economics professor at George Mason University, compiles these findings and more in a new book, “An Economist Gets Lunch,” which is part economic history of American food, part attack on the self-righteousness of locavores and other food snobs and part guide to getting a better meal at home or a restaurant.

Some tips on good eating from Professor Cowen:

If something on the menu sounds bad, it might well be especially good. Order the ugly and the unknown.

Avoid restaurants with beautiful women, hipsters and smiling and laughing people.

Look for the most Islamic of Pakistani restaurants. No alcohol means they have to emphasize the quality of the food to win customers.
:
:

[beeatnik]

I purchased one of their jerseys a while back during the big sale and I went over that piece with a proverbial magnifying glass looking for flaws...nadda. I even had my Mother (seamstress extraordinaire) take a look at it and she commented on the quaility of the workmanship. I never ended up wearing the piece and sold it because it seemed to be too damn nice to abuse. Irish Catholic guilt I guess.


Doc, you picked up one of their pieces that made it through QC. I've owned 4 jerseys and I had issues with 2. Piling on a Lightweight after hand washing it twice. Loose threads on the club jersey after 3 or 4 washes. Come to think of it, the other 2 jerseys looked pretty beat after a few months. I guess I expect more from $100 plus jerseys. I mean, a jersey can last 10 years but if the colors look dull after a few months, I feel a little ripped off (unlike Assos or even PI where the sublimation keeps the colors super bright for years). As for the bibs, I held out on those since they were never truly discounted. Everyone raves about them, but they use the same inserts, IIRC, as Assos and Capo. Also, most of the Rapha bibs I've seen on the road look like they're falling apart. I guess they're so AWESOME that guys wear them on every single ride and after a year or two they look like chet.

[pdmtong]

Yea, I've had a few of those. sent them up to portland and fixed or warranty replaced no issue. it happens. NBD on my end.



Doc, you picked up one of their pieces that made it through QC. I've owned 4 jerseys and I had issues with 2. Piling on a Lightweight after hand washing it twice. Loose threads on the club jersey after 3 or 4 washes. Come to think of it, the other 2 jerseys looked pretty beat after a few months. I guess I expect more from $100 plus jerseys. I mean, a jersey can last 10 years but if the colors look dull after a few months, I feel a little ripped off (unlike Assos or even PI where the sublimation keeps the colors super bright for years). As for the bibs, I held out on those since they were never truly discounted. Everyone raves about them, but they use the same inserts, IIRC, as Assos and Capo. Also, most of the Rapha bibs I've seen on the road look like they're falling apart. I guess they're so AWESOME that guys wear them on every single ride and after a year or two they look like chet.

[lavi]

I like Rapha's stuff. I own a small bit of it (2 jerseys). I think their branding is unique and pretty good. What other apparel company puts as much effort into their web content? Even if you don't buy/appreciate what they're hocking, you can enjoy their web content (videos, writing, pics). I've met the cats here in PDX and they are genuinely great guys. They do alot for promoting cycling wherever they go. Of course it's done in the spirit of selling things. That said, I've never seen PI (crappola IMO) standing on the side of road anywhere, or hosting parties....or any other apparel brand for that matter. Have you?

Anyone see the very brief shot where the Rapha van/truck thing (grey) was on the side of the road with a banner at PR?

I rode the etape last summer in France (Alpe d'Huez stage). There was a little vendor festival the day before in the start village. I was staying there so the festival had me captive. I loved the Rapha dudes (this batch was from the home office in the UK) if for no other reason because after a week of having been in France people actually understood the words coming out of my mouth. They were great folks. Very knowledgeable about the riding in the French Alps. I talked with them for hours. Not once did anyone try to talk me into a jersey. Those effers were actual riders that had a passion for the sport.

From what I've seen of their stuff (lots of dudes ride it in PDX as their US Headquarters is here), I've never really heard any complaints in terms of fit or quality. Their kit looks quite sharp to boot.

For me though, I'll buy Assos on sale even though their sizing makes me feel very very very large.

Carryon. You all are slowing down if you're gonna make 8 + pages.

[pdmtong]

Wool - try Icebreaker...plenty discounted realcyclist.com

[cat6]

I used to wear the stuff. Now I'm glad I'm not the one guy on the ride in head-to-toe Rapha. Reverse snobbery? I just woke up one morning felt manipulated (like a 16 year old girl yearning for a Coach bag) realized that they strike me as phony and began to see their marketing as even more obnoxious than any billboard kit.

+1, same here. I suspect in time some folks around here might wake to the same realization and sell all their Coach bags :p

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Page 6 here we come....

Oh, and, given my druthers, I prefer Wabi Woolens. Can't wait until Harth makes a full-zip jersey.

[jpw]

Anyone see the very brief shot where the Rapha van/truck thing (grey) was on the side of the road with a banner at PR?



Yes, I saw that snapshot. A very distinctive vehicle. They should park it at the Ronde and then we'd get three snapshots. They're missing out.

[witcombusa]

Any company has to start somewhere and somehow. It's tough being a startup. I get that one might not like the way the product looks or works. Or that it's expensive. Or even that it's made in China. But all this harping on marketing and image is just downright silly.

Buy what you like, I'll steer clear.

[witcombusa]

Actually that's hardly ever true. Smart marketing will beat smart engineering every time. VHS crushed Beta. Windows crushed the original Mac OS, etc, etc, etc..

Cycling, at least from the "enthusiast cyclist" standpoint in the US is a pretty small world. IF a good product is out there, word of "cyclist" travels pretty fast.

Marketing that pushes a little too hard is a warning sign for me in any area.

[Chris]

Hey, man I ride a CAAD8!
If you want to try Rapha, try a Torm jersey. Pretty much a copy of Rapha at half the price, guess they don't need to cover costs for "epicness".
Look, if you're riding a bike these days you'll get a wave from me regardless of what you are sporting for duds.
Pat

You should ride a CAAD8. That was one of my favorite bikes of all time. It did everything well for me. My point was that anything beyond that is fluff...and dare I say marketing? Full disclosure, I ride a Speedvagen now and wear mostly Rapha clothing. I know why I do it. It's not because the vagen is a better bike than the Cannondale or that Rapha clothing is better than Assos or any of the other SIMILARLY priced stuff out there, it's because I know the people involved and like them. Simple enough.

[William]

I dunno, the Winter bib tights look kind of nice...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6698215191_f18207dcaf.jpg






William

[William]

According to the Bikesnob, Rapha's "Yak leather contains residual pheromones that can cause bovines to attempt to mate with your feet."


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2UsUxwIJcjU/T2NOMW60-mI/AAAAAAAAZpU/eRZ1YsSnQqs/s1600/The+Blair+Cow+Project+-+YouTube.jpg







William

[William]

Btw, this is what vintage Hardmen look like....

http://www.noosa-eroica.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/old.jpg


Not the marketing schtick of the J. Peterman wannabe's.







William

[Lovetoclimb]

My comparison to Castelli is based on 3 years of team sponsorship and getting pretty high quality stuff at a killer price. Probably 50% of what I would pay for Rapha sale prices. If course I am ordering 2-3 pieces of everything because it has to last a season and have backups in case of wrecks etc.

I would happily pay the 50% additional for Rapha because it is 50% better. Full price, perhaps not, my salary bracket doesn't quite fit there. But I do not own a car, live in a modest apt., and cook most of my vegan food at home from bulk or farm fresh purchases. So it is an expense I can justify. The performance of the kit (and not just bibs/jerseys) has yet to disappoint me. From commuting trousers ($80), to wool neck gaitor that I wore for 4 months straight ($30), to the classic bibs ($160) that do not retain the smell like my Castelli lycra, the form and function leaves nothing to be desired IMO.

For those on the fence or who have simply never tried the product but dislike the marketing, Montramm is pretty clear he is about branding. Thus Rapha has built a brand, and they make sure everything they do fits with the mission of continuing to define it. Also they do have the no questions asked 30 day trial period for all of their classics products. Why not do a comparison for yourself, then come back and provide us your objective feedback.

[El Chaba]

Rapha is as phony as a $3 bill...(and they probably have a few of those for sale for $79, shipping and gift wrapping included)

[velobran]

About that Jacket. What are those black strips for at the shoulders?

Taped seams for better water resisting.

[witcombusa]

For those on the fence or who have simply never tried the product but dislike the marketing, Montramm is pretty clear he is about branding. Thus Rapha has built a brand, and they make sure everything they do fits with the mission of continuing to define it. Also they do have the no questions asked 30 day trial period for all of their classics products. Why not do a comparison for yourself, then come back and provide us your objective feedback.

I only buy products I actually want...... :eek:

[Viper]

Rapha is as phony as a salesman on a pogo stick hopping around at a one day sale spending his $3 bill.

Fixed. :)

Rapha.
We care about women's cycling.
And those women have a blog (insert link) to review our stuff for you to buy.
We give free, cold beer.
We care about the hipster, the yuppy, the poor, meek and women's cycling, too.
We'll care about most anything.
We care about 80% margins, gross profit, cheap labor and did we remind you...we care about women's cycling.

[fiamme red]

Btw, this is what vintage Hardmen look like....

http://www.noosa-eroica.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/old.jpg

Not the marketing schtick of the J. Peterman wannabe's.From the Rapha Grand Tour shoes description:

"The shoes are available in white or black with a contrast lower strap, echoing the toe straps of cycling’s golden era."

The cyclists of the "golden era" mostly came from poor families, and instead of working in the mines or on the farm they scratched out a living by racing their bikes. They weren't yuppies with plenty of disposable income who could drop $450 on a pair of cycling shoes. When Sean Kelly's shoes started falling apart, no problem, he just patched them with a little duct tape. :)

[nbrewste]

Rapha is a brand I hate to love and love to hate.

True, so much of their marketing appears contrived. A bit too "epic". But you've got to admit, some of their documentaries / photographs are striking. I'm sure we've all had that moment that Mottram speaks of -- "it's not about the race, it's about what is happening in the person’s head during the race." I know I've surely felt more heroic and romanticized than my race results may indicate...

And yes, there is the issue of price. But the whole cycling accessory / bicycle market is out of whack. Anybody actually consider the price of a custom steel frame these days? Lot of dough for a relatively inexpensive material. How about the prices of the big brands' "performance bikes"? Or wheels...?

I wear the Rapha pieces I own casually. To work. Commuting. It's something different. Something that merges my passion for cycling with an aesthetic that 'works' in the workplace.

When I train? When I race? That's what a team kit is for.

[William]

From the Rapha Grand Tour shoes description:

"The shoes are available in white or black with a contrast lower strap, echoing the toe straps of cycling’s golden era."

The cyclists of the "golden era" mostly came from poor families, and instead of working in the mines or on the farm they scratched out a living by racing their bikes. They weren't yuppies with plenty of disposable income who could drop $450 on a pair of cycling shoes. When Sean Kelly's shoes started falling apart, no problem, he just patched them with a little duct tape. :)

You know, if Sean were riding today he could have patched those shoes with the New Rapha Hard Man duct tape. For only $39.95 a roll he can choose from ten vintage Hard Man designs made in a Chinese sweat sho...I mean Belgian design studio.

http://www.whateverworks.com/prodimages/K9399b.jpg






;)

William

[Fixed]

. Irish Catholic guilt I guess.
:
thanks i never understood why i feel that way too
thank you i mean it
cheers :)

[fiamme red]

You know, if Sean were riding today he could have patched those shoes with the New Rapha Hard Man duct tape. For only $39.95 a roll he can choose from ten vintage Hard Man designs made in a Chinese sweat sho...I mean Belgian design studio.Paisley and pink polka dot Hard Man tape! I love it. :hello:

[William]

Paisley and pink polka dot Hard Man tape! I love it. :hello:

They are for men secure in their Hardness. For the guys who aren't, that's what the diamond plate is for.:D






William

[54ny77]

If you're a Hardman longer than 4 hours, seek immediate medical attention.

[Viper]

They are for men secure in their Hardness. For the guys who aren't, that's what Viagra and EPO is for.:D



Fixed. :)

:beer:

[tsarpepe]

I must say, Sean's legs do look somehow... phallic.

[Kirk007]

The grayness has returned to the Emerald City, a light rain falls but the sky is threatening to open in an epic deluge at any moment. I kit up: Rapha base layer - black. Check. Rapha jacket - black. Check. Kirk steel frame with Berthoud fenders - Check. Nemesis/Record wheels with Vittoria paves - check.

I depart into the urban jungle of Seattle, dodging soccer moms, crazy cabs and youths distracted by Kurt Cobain blaring from their car stereos. Yikes, dodge the hipster with the bright green rims on the fixed gear. Dude, nice cap he says (It's the Rapha - white with pink strip, deployed strategically under my awesome black Lazer helmet).

Having departed Marine View Drive, where I watched an awesome baby seal rest on the rocky shore, I struggle up a steep serpentine side street of West Seattle, heart beating, my sorry fat ass at the limit, but I am motivated by the thought of Cafe Ladro at the summit; the outside table, the epic coolness of sipping onmy double ristretto, my cap jauntily angled as I comment to the cute chick about what an awesome looking goldendoogle she has as she leaves the doggy day care next door. Normally she would just blow me off as another dirty old man, but then she sees the cap, the bike, the murdered out couture. She smiles. I propel myself forward and crest the hill with a sigh. Thank you Rapha.

[54ny77]

you shoulda stopped and beat the baby seal with your pantographed silca frame pump.

;)

The grayness has returned to the Emerald City, a light rain falls but the sky is threatening to open in an epic deluge at any moment. I kit up: Rapha base layer - black. Check. Rapha jacket - black. Check. Kirk steel frame with Berthoud fenders - Check. Nemesis/Record wheels with Vittoria paves - check.

I depart into the urban jungle of Seattle, dodging soccer moms, crazy cabs and youths distracted by Kurt Cobain blaring from their car stereos. Yikes, dodge the hipster with the bright green rims on the fixed gear. Dude, nice cap he says (It's the Rapha - white with pink strip, deployed strategically under my awesome black Lazer helmet).

Having departed Marine View Drive, where I watched an awesome baby seal rest on the rocky shore, I struggle up a steep serpentine side street of West Seattle, heart beating, my sorry fat ass at the limit, but I am motivated by the thought of Cafe Ladro at the summit; the outside table, the epic coolness of sipping onmy double ristretto, my cap jauntily angled as I comment to the cute chick about what an awesome looking goldendoogle she has as she leaves the doggy day care next door. Normally she would just blow me off as another dirty old man, but then she sees the cap, the bike, the murdered out couture. She smiles. I propel myself forward and crest the hill with a sigh. Thank you Rapha.

[fiamme red]

you shoulda stopped and beat the baby seal with your pantographed silca frame pump.

;):D

Speaking of frame pumps, Assos used to make them:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Assos-Bike-Pump-rare-vintage-Frame-fitting-pump-/110854023369?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts _SR&hash=item19cf6a28c9

[54ny77]

that's gotta be a rebranded zefal, made in uzbekistan.

:p

:D

Speaking of frame pumps, Assos used to make them:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Assos-Bike-Pump-rare-vintage-Frame-fitting-pump-/110854023369?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts _SR&hash=item19cf6a28c9

[fiamme red]

that's gotta be a rebranded zefal, made in uzbekistan.

:pYes, it does seem to be a rebranded Zefal.

I don't think I've ever seen a frame pump in a Rapha photo. In Raphaworld, no one needs a pump because there's always a support car with spare wheels. :)

[Lovetoclimb]

I've never not seen a Rapha continental video without a rider sporting and often using a frame pump.

[fiamme red]

Fixed. :)

Rapha.
We care about women's cycling.From the linked interview with the CEO:

"At the start, the vision of the brand was very much about the male psyche but now we find ourselves selling more and more to women so we have had to adapt that slightly. So that’s quite an interesting journey for us as a brand."

[54ny77]

I heard they are working on releasing a special edition air cartridge called RaphAir (tm), which contains real Himalayan oxygen from 20,000 feet, contained in a handcrafted canister made from recycled coffee tins by Lepcha artisans.

Yes, it does seem to be a rebranded Zefal.

I don't think I've ever seen a frame pump in a Rapha photo. In Raphaworld, no one needs a pump because there's always a support car with spare wheels. :)

[fiamme red]

I've never not seen a Rapha continental video without a rider sporting and often using a frame pump.I guess those would be the Rapha domestiques ("forçats de la route" or "convicts of the road"), who are photographed much more seldom than the Rapha team leaders. :)

Page 8, here we come!

[Viper]

Would anyone care to interview me? I'll wear wool. I have a frame pump (Topeak it was 20% off last week at Competitive Cyclist), I care about cycling and all sorts of things. I'm up to season III of Farscape, reading a few books while riding as sunshine allows, but I'll make time for a proper interview.

[kceb_cire]

Im not sure why people hate Rapha so much... Still don't see a definitive answer from those of you who do.
I've never paid full retail for any of my rapha kit. When their jerseys are on sale for $60, thats less than some lower end PI, or Capo, etc. stuff.
Their bibs, which are the best I've worn, were a deal with the winter sale + coupon, and light years above my equally priced craft and capo stuff.
Also, if you didn't know the price, didn't see the marketing, which would you rather wear, based on look and feel?
This: http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3134-14.jpg
or this:http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/products/pearl/2012/20003_i_1.jpg

Pretty easy choice.

[Kirk007]

Im not sure why people hate Rapha so much... Still don't see a definitive answer from those of you who do.

This: http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3134-14.jpg
or this:http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/products/pearl/2012/20003_i_1.jpg

Pretty easy choice.

Your problem is that you are being rational rather than reactionary! Probably 'cause you are here in Seattle, where we like to rationally process things to death rather than reacting quickly (hence the sad state of mass transit, roads, etc ; ).

Anyway, off for my Rapha ride followed by a trip to Cascade Bicycle Studio (local Rapha dealer) to pick up my Kirk frame with Mango Chris King headset installed (it is going to look smashing with my otherwise black/white look).

I think we make 9 pages easy...

[witcombusa]

Im not sure why people hate Rapha so much... Still don't see a definitive answer from those of you who do.
.


definitive answer?

I don't hate them......I'm just not interested

[kceb_cire]

Your problem is that you are being rational rather than reactionary! Probably 'cause you are here in Seattle, where we like to rationally process things to death rather than reacting quickly (hence the sad state of mass transit, roads, etc ; ).

Anyway, off for my Rapha ride followed by a trip to Cascade Bicycle Studio (local Rapha dealer) to pick up my Kirk frame with Mango Chris King headset installed (it is going to look smashing with my otherwise black/white look).

I think we make 9 pages easy...

Good to know about the Cascade Bicycle Studio!
I'm relatively new to Seattle, I haven't discovered this shop yet.

:hello:

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I'll help this along. When Rapha makes something that says "Bianchi" on it, I'll bite. :rolleyes: Maybe. :p

Seriously, the jersey's look nice. I like the movies, and especially the music that accompanies them. Marketing has never swayed me, I buy and use what I like and what works, and I've found out what works, for me, through years of trial and error. Not what a marketing campaign has told me.

[PQJ]

definitive answer?

I don't hate them......I'm just not interested

Not really true, friend. You've said yourself you dislike them on many levels. Granted, that's not necessarily 'hate' but I do think, semantically speaking, given the amount of your participation here notwithstanding a lack of interest, it's a question of degree.

It seems to me that most people don't like Rapha because of the marketing and image, and not because of the products themselves. Which, as I've said, is rather silly (imo, of course).

[gdw]

Hate is too strong a word folks... I dislike the company because their advertising campaign is pretentious and their products are overpriced. Something about them just isn't quite right... they seem phoney, sleazy, kind of like a Washington politician. Maybe it's their abuse of the word epic or the whole glorification of suffering thing. Their made in China rationalization bs doesn't help their cause in my book as well.



Bring on Page 10

[fiamme red]

It seems to me that most people don't like Rapha because of the marketing and image, and not because of the products themselves. Which, as I've said, is rather silly (imo, of course).Besides the ridiculous marketing, there's also the disingenuous claim that their clothing is made in China not to increase profit margins, but because the best clothing factories are located there. I try to buy as few Chinese products as possible, only where there's no alternative.

http://www.rapha.cc/made-in-china

This may suggest the perception of Chinese manufacturing in the west is perhaps owed to a fear of the competition, rather than reality. As the Chinese economy has grown, working conditions have improved and business has developed a social, ethical conscience. There have been major improvements in education, hospitals and the marks of western gentrification, like big fast-food brands, shopping centres, hotels and housing estates. The living conditions have improved rapidly and the east is enjoying what the western world has failed to maintain.

[beeatnik]

Not really true, friend. You've said yourself you dislike them on many levels. Granted, that's not necessarily 'hate' but I do think, semantically speaking, given the amount of your participation here notwithstanding a lack of interest, it's a question of degree.

It seems to me that most people don't like Rapha because of the marketing and image, and not because of the products themselves. Which, as I've said, is rather silly (imo, of course).

I think a distinction should be made between Rapha kit as stylish and Rapha kit as functional. Whether or not the stuff looks good and how that is projected (lifestyle marketing) shouldn't inform the buying process as much as how the product performs (and how that's marketed). Road cycling is a sport and not a fashion parade. Regardless, IMO, the market speaks. You just dont see a lot of guys in Rapha. Not at club rides, not on PCH, not on big popular climbs, not on the river trails/bike paths. And I'm in LA which is one of their big markets. Now, one might counter that Rapha's lack of ubiquity is proportional to its price points and not its shortcomings as high performance gear. I'm not sure about one. Around here, Tarmacs seem to be the most popular bikes. I think Spesh faces as much hate as Rapha and Tarmacs are by no means affordable. And yet, they perform and the market speaks and every other racer boy, fred and wolfpack hustle/midnight ridazz/hipster roadie seems to be riding one.

Sometimes, the twain meets tho...go figure:


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5330/7068575985_684da109c7.jpg

[Bob Loblaw]

I have a negative reaction to Rapha products. I am not sure why. I think maybe because they are marketing exclusivity, and I have always taken issue with the elitist hierarchy in the sport.

If they were hand made of natural fabrics blessed by the Eddy Merckx, I would bow to the argument of commensurate price and quality. But their products are made in China just like everything else.

BL

[54ny77]

Interesting point.

A modern Mercedes sedan or even a '96 Buck LeSabre (damned fine car I might add!) both perform functionally the same thing: getting one from point a to point b.

Both work well (at least the '96 most of the time...). Yet it is solely the marketing and image that define the product and that is what drives a consumer to buy either, no?


It seems to me that most people don't like Rapha because of the marketing and image, and not because of the products themselves. Which, as I've said, is rather silly (imo, of course).

[PQJ]

I think a distinction should be made between Rapha kit as stylish and Rapha kit as functional. Whether or not the stuff looks good and how that is projected (lifestyle marketing) shouldn't inform the buying process as much as how the product performs (and how that's marketed). IMO, the market speaks. You just dont see a lot of guys in Rapha. Not at club rides, not on PCH, not on big popular climbs, not on the river trails/bike paths. And I'm in LA which is one of their big markets. Now, one might counter that Rapha's lack of ubiquity is proportional to its price points and not its shortcomings as high performance gear. I'm not sure about one. Around here, Tarmacs seem to be the most popular bikes. I think Spesh faces as much hate as Rapha and Tarmacs are by no means affordable. And yet, they perform and the market speaks and every other racer boy, fred and wolfpack hustle/midnight ridazz/hipster roadie seems to be riding one.

Sometimes, the twain meets tho...go figure:


Fair enough. My opinion, based on my experience, is that the products are stylish, functional and quality. I could care less about the marketing shtick and pay it no mind or time. Maybe you don't 'see' much of Rapha because most of their stuff is very understated. It doesn't scream "Assos" quite the way Assos does. (Don't get me wrong, I own and like Assos too; and 99% of my Assos and Rapha stuff was bought on sale or with a discount code.) I'm very nondiscriminatory in my cycling gear, and own Assos, Rapha, Giordana, Craft, PI and LG. I buy what I like and what works. Specialized vs. Rapha isn't a fair comparison because Specialized is one of the giants, so to speak, and has been around for a while. My starter bike is/was an aluminum Allez Elite and I like it very much.

[fiamme red]

If they were hand made of natural fabrics blessed by the Eddy Merckx, I would bow to the argument of commensurate price and quality. But their products are made in China just like everything else.Rapha doesn't even make a single wool jersey. Every one of their jerseys is either polyester or a blend that is partly wool, but mostly polyester.

[jpw]

Taped seams for better water resisting.

Oh, right. Why not tape the inside? Outside spoils the look.

[PQJ]

Interesting point.

A modern Mercedes sedan or even a '96 Buck LeSabre (damned fine car I might add!) both perform functionally the same thing: getting one from point a to point b.

Both work well (at least the '96 most of the time...). Yet it is solely the marketing and image that define the product and that is what drives a consumer to buy either, no?

Not really, no. The product is quite different even if the function and performance are the same. I love German cars; I don't like American cars at all. I judge and buy products based on the products themselves and my needs; I really don't care about and am not swayed in the least by marketing and image. In fact, if the market says A, I'll try B on purpose, but if A turns out to be the better product (for me, based on my experience), then that's what I'll end up with. Case in point for me is Apple. I tried my damndest to not be a fanboy and bought PCs and Androids on purpose. But, I decided to give Apple a try (because of the products) and it turns out I think they're better (the products themselves, that is).

[jpw]

Would anyone care to interview me? I'll wear wool. I have a frame pump (Topeak it was 20% off last week at Competitive Cyclist), I care about cycling and all sorts of things. I'm up to season III of Farscape, reading a few books while riding as sunshine allows, but I'll make time for a proper interview.

Nice idea - 'The Paceline Interview', monthly, at random, no preparation, for authenticity.

[kceb_cire]

I've never once bought a product because of "marketing." Before I bought a rapha jersey, I asked my friends who had one what they thought. They, being friends, gave me an honest answer, so I waited until they went on sale and got one. I didn't even buy it from rapha's site, got it from competitive cyclist.
I liked the comfort/feel/quality/function of the jersey so much, I bought bibs when they went on sale too. Couldn't be happier with the function of both.

Marketing has NOTHING to do with any purchase I ever make.

[beeatnik]

Fair enough. My opinion, based on my experience, is that the products are stylish, functional and quality. I could care less about the marketing shtick and pay it no mind or time. Maybe you don't 'see' much of Rapha because most of their stuff is very understated. It doesn't scream "Assos" quite the way Assos does. (Don't get me wrong, I own and like Assos too; and 99% of my Assos and Rapha stuff was bought on sale or with a discount code.) I'm very nondiscriminatory in my cycling gear, and own Assos, Rapha, Giordana, Craft, PI and LG. I buy what I like and what works. Specialized vs. Rapha isn't a fair comparison because Specialized is one of the giants, so to speak, and has been around for a while. My starter bike is/was an aluminum Allez Elite and I like it very much.


I used the Specialized analogy because I was a little surprised when I started noticing that many of the fixed-gear-riding, track-bike-loving, steel-is-real-spouting, cred-craving, njs-collecting, art school-bike-riding LA hipsters were snapping up Tarmacs as they moved through their upwardly mobile (pun intended), road bike trajectory. You wouldn't expect guys who care about exclusivity (ironic kits, rapha, spensive coffee) to embrace the big S. But the bikes perform and these guys love to climb so they seem to put aside their prejudices and buy bikes with very little cachet, IMO. On the flip side, if Rapha gear performed as well as Capo, Giordana, Castelli, PI, Assos, Gore, et al (brands that have been in the industry for generations) you'd see more of it on the road, regardless of any positive or negative associations. The final irony is that for something so 'tasteful" it's pretty loud on the road, simply because no one is wearing it.

[Vientomas]

Nice idea - 'The Paceline Interview', monthly, at random, no preparation, for authenticity.

Some stock questions for each interviewee?

1. What is your favorite word?

2. What is your least favorite word?

3. What turns you on?

4. What turns you off?

5. What sound do you love?

6. What sound do you hate?

7. What is your favorite curse word?

8. What profession other than yours would you like to attempt?

9. What profession would you not like to do?

10. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

[ClutchCargo]

Can someone please find and post a picture of Lance wearing Rapha gear while espousing Campag over Shimano (we won't even mention that four letter word SRAM) and blasting the Chinese for turning out all those sh#tty mass manufactured, inferior quality frames? I'd really love to see this thread hit at least 50 pages.

[William]

Some stock questions for each interviewee?

1. What is your favorite word?

Rapha

2. What is your least favorite word?

Rapha

3. What turns you on?

Rapha

4. What turns you off?

Rapha

5. What sound do you love?

~R-a-p-h-a~

6. What sound do you hate?

~R-a-p-h-a~

7. What is your favorite curse word?

Effin Rapha

8. What profession other than yours would you like to attempt?

Selling Rapha

9. What profession would you not like to do?

Sell Rapha

10. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

"Not if you're wearing Rapha you're not!!



:p






William

[Vientomas]

:p






William

That gave me a great laugh. Thanks. Now, back to work

[PQJ]

I used the Specialized analogy because I was a little surprised when I started noticing that many of the fixed-gear-riding, track-bike-loving, steel-is-real-spouting, cred-craving, njs-collecting, art school-bike-riding LA hipsters were snapping up Tarmacs as they moved through their upwardly mobile (pun intended), road bike trajectory. You wouldn't expect guys who care about exclusivity (ironic kits, rapha, spensive coffee) to embrace the big S. But the bikes perform and these guys love to climb so they seem to put aside their prejudices and buy bikes with very little cachet, IMO. On the flip side, if Rapha gear performed as well as Capo, Giordana, Castelli, PI, Assos, Gore, et al (brands that have been in the industry for generations) you'd see more of it on the road, regardless of any positive or negative associations. The final irony is that for something so 'tasteful" it's pretty loud on the road, simply because no one is wearing it.

I'll take your word for it. In my experience, Rapha performs great. I really don't know who wears what because I honestly never ever look. I notice Assos occasionally because, well, it's very noticeable and I don't think many people wear it (at least not in Atlanta). One of my riding buddies looks like a total fred on the bike but it doesn't bother me in the least because he doesn't know about cycling 'culture' and doesn't care; he's a good athlete nonetheless. Most of the other guys (and the occasional gal) I ride with are in their own team kit.

One more thing - bikes don't perform, people do.

[Viper]

Some stock questions for each interviewee?

1. What is your favorite word? "Hey!" from a friend, especially a chica.

2. What is your least favorite word? "Rapha" :)

3. What turns you on? A woman who is fit, smart, stable and loves sci-fi, showering with her or watching sci-fi after a shower and she smells nice after the shower. Also, Shark Week. Or a chica who is reading a book about sharks or sci-fi or really just reading and/or doing something creative, an activity/hobby.

4. What turns you off? When she stares at her Smart Phone.

5. What sound do you love? Waves at the ocean. Also a great old song or a new song which gets you..

6. What sound do you hate? My neighbor's dog which barks non-stop and if my Campy makes any noise whatsoever.

7. What is your favorite curse word? F*ck

8. What profession other than yours would you like to attempt? Politics, or run NBC like Jack from '30 Rock'.

9. What profession would you not like to do? Cashier. I hate registers. Or maybe it's the people on line at the register?

10. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? "Viper you mofo (since I don't believe in God or heaven though I am mystified by how this whole started pre-Big Bang) I told you so!" followed by some angel with wings offering, "Irish. Right this way."



See above.

:beer:

[jpw]

Rapha seems 'forced'. It hasn't grown organically. It's pumped up beyond a natural rate of growth.

It has a nice logo and timeless styling.

I want stuff that works on the bike and in the washing machine, and lasts. I don't need frills, fancy colors and patterns, et.c, et.c., just stuff that does the job, stuff that I can forget about when I'm riding (which is always the test of cycling equipment and stuff - If I'm aware of it when riding there's something wrong with it).

OK, Assos has its marketing affectation moments, but it is 35 years old.

[PQJ]

I want stuff that works on the bike and in the washing machine, and lasts. I don't need frills, fancy colors and patterns, et.c, et.c., just stuff that does the job, stuff that I can forget about when I'm riding (which is always the test of cycling equipment and stuff - If I'm aware of it when riding there's something wrong with it).


You really should give Rapha a try, then. It fits your criteria very well.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Are you guys STILL at it?!?!

Go ride your bikes!

:rolleyes:

BBD

[CunegoFan]

It seems to me that most people don't like Rapha because of the marketing and image, and not because of the products themselves. Which, as I've said, is rather silly (imo, of course).
Marketing and image is all that Rapha is. This is not a company that started out with the intention of owning factories and making things. It is not a company that started with the problem of how to sell a product to the public. It is a company that started with a cynical lifestyle marketing plan before the first product was even conceived. If people are turned off by Rapha's marketing then they are turned off by the foundation of the company.

Rapha is lifestyle marketing run amuck. It represents everything that is wrong in cycling today. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.

[lavi]

Cafe Ladro

Yankee Dog please.

[ClutchCargo]

Marketing and image is all that Rapha is. This is not a company that started out with the intention of owning factories and making things. It is not a company that started with the problem of how to sell a product to the public. It is a company that started with a cynical lifestyle marketing plan before the first product was even conceived. If people are turned off by Rapha's marketing then they are turned off by the foundation of the company.

Rapha is lifestyle marketing run amuck. It represents everything that is wrong in cycling today. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.

YES! "China" is in the building!
Now. Can I get a Lance-wearing-Rapha photo? Anyone???

[PQJ]

Marketing and image is all that Rapha is. This is not a company that started out with the intention of owning factories and making things. It is not a company that started with the problem of how to sell a product to the public. It is a company that started with a cynical lifestyle marketing plan before the first product was even conceived. If people are turned off by Rapha's marketing then they are turned off by the foundation of the company.

The same could be said for Nike except perhaps in regards to its initial founding.

Rapha is lifestyle marketing run amuck. It represents everything that is wrong in cycling today. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.

I assume you are talking here about yourself and those you ride with. It is categorically not true in regards to me. I think you are applying the same level of superficial judgment as the people you deride. Moreover, the same can be said about any expensive product. I have no doubt there are people like the ones you describe on the same rides that I do, at the same golf courses I play on, at the same gym I belong to, etc. They're not my friends and don't bother me; I'm not their friend and don't bother them. Who cares? I know I don't.

[beeatnik]

Rapha is lifestyle marketing run amuck. It represents everything that is wrong in cycling today. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.

In LA, I don't see too many yuppies rocking Rapha. Probably, because these young professionals are saving to buy 2 bedroom houses, in marginal communities, for 700 grand plus. The cool kids seem to love Rapha. Why? Because they don't want to look like Freds nor do they want to seem like they care that much about cycling, as a serious sport. Ironic, ain't it?

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5333/7068772903_460671f4ee.jpg

[tannhauser]

I used the Specialized analogy because I was a little surprised when I started noticing that many of the fixed-gear-riding, track-bike-loving, steel-is-real-spouting, cred-craving, njs-collecting, art school-bike-riding LA hipsters were snapping up Tarmacs as they moved through their upwardly mobile (pun intended), road bike trajectory. You wouldn't expect guys who care about exclusivity (ironic kits, rapha, spensive coffee) to embrace the big S. But the bikes perform and these guys love to climb so they seem to put aside their prejudices and buy bikes with very little cachet, IMO. On the flip side, if Rapha gear performed as well as Capo, Giordana, Castelli, PI, Assos, Gore, et al (brands that have been in the industry for generations) you'd see more of it on the road, regardless of any positive or negative associations. The final irony is that for something so 'tasteful" it's pretty loud on the road, simply because no one is wearing it.

I was saying this to anyone who would listen a few years ago. If you love riding, you'll find tech because it's MORE.

Gawd this is a dumb thread. I don't think anyone read the interview but me but I thought it was good.

[CunegoFan]

IThe cool kids seem to love Rapha. Why? Because they don't want to look like Freds nor they don't want to seem like they care that much about cycling, as a serious sport.

That must be it. They will show everyone that they don't care about cycling as a sport by dressing head to toe in Rapha, which sells its goods with a bunch of phony imagery emulating the glory days of the sport. Seems like someone that spends an hour carefully arranging their hair to an unkept look.

[jpw]

Are you guys STILL at it?!?!

Go ride your bikes!

:rolleyes:

BBD

Multitasking - I do both :)

[beeatnik]

That must be it. They will show everyone that they don't care about cycling as a sport by dressing head to toe in Rapha, which sells its goods with a bunch of phony imagery emulating the glory days of the sport. Seems like someone that spends an hour carefully arranging their hair to an unkept look.

Bingo.

[Kirk007]

Marketing and image is all that Rapha is. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.

Seriously? Are you also Cunego's age cause you're clearly talking smack like someone with a limited set of life experiences and a penchant to judgmental generalizations rather than someone with a keen read as to the character of a rather large segment of the folks that hang out here. In other words, don't call me a douchebag unless you know me and I'm ok with it. I'm particular as to who I accept that label from.

Moreover, Given the cost per ride and the function (they do what they are supposed to do) I find a whole lot of intrinisic quality in most of my Rapha stuff (arm warmers are the exception - they are about wide enough for Cunego's arm and other T-rex built cyclists rather than anyone with a bicep).

[jerome]

Simon is a great guy !

a marketing guru above all

and sometimes I find it is a bit too much, but who mind.

I like him more than I like the quality of Rapha production not very consistent across the line, but nice looking.

[CunegoFan]

Seriously? Are you also Cunego's age cause you're clearly talking smack like someone with a limited set of life experiences and a penchant to judgmental generalizations rather than someone with a keen read as to the character of a rather large segment of the folks that hang out here. In other words, don't call me a douchebag unless you know me and I'm ok with it. I'm particular as to who I accept that label from.

Moreover, Given the cost per ride and the function (they do what they are supposed to do) I find a whole lot of intrinisic quality in most of my Rapha stuff (arm warmers are the exception - they are about wide enough for Cunego's arm and other T-rex built cyclists rather than anyone with a bicep).
Hooked another one. It's easy with Rapha homers. They get steamed that other people are turned off by Rapha's phony marketing and interpret every ill word said about Rapha as a personal insult rather than a broad brush rant.

[Kirk007]

Hooked another one. It's easy with Rapha homers. They get steamed that other people are turned off by Rapha's phony marketing and interpret every ill word said about Rapha as a personal insult rather than a broad brush rant.

you have no idea little prince. off color rants and labels are what folks resort to when they have nothing to say that sticks.

[54ny77]

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/roxbury.jpg

[CunegoFan]

you have no idea little prince. off color rants and labels are what folks resort to when they have nothing to say that sticks.

It must have cut deep.

[PQJ]

It must have cut deep.

Speaking for myself here since that broad brush was applied to me, too, no it didn't cut deep. Not even a nick. I took it from whence it came. The marketing/image based Rapha hate strikes me as odd, that's all.

How many pages are we at? (I'm at 4 but I've set my settings that way).

[FlashUNC]

Marketing and image is all that Rapha is. This is not a company that started out with the intention of owning factories and making things. It is not a company that started with the problem of how to sell a product to the public. It is a company that started with a cynical lifestyle marketing plan before the first product was even conceived. If people are turned off by Rapha's marketing then they are turned off by the foundation of the company.

Rapha is lifestyle marketing run amuck. It represents everything that is wrong in cycling today. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.


U mad.

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/images/lists/hip-hop-gifs/2-Camron-You-Mad.gif

[TMB]

Seriously? Are you also Cunego's age cause you're clearly talking smack like someone with a limited set of life experiences and a penchant to judgmental generalizations rather than someone with a keen read as to the character of a rather large segment of the folks that hang out here. In other words, don't call me a douchebag unless you know me and I'm ok with it. I'm particular as to who I accept that label from.

Moreover, Given the cost per ride and the function (they do what they are supposed to do) I find a whole lot of intrinisic quality in most of my Rapha stuff (arm warmers are the exception - they are about wide enough for Cunego's arm and other T-rex built cyclists rather than anyone with a bicep).

Earlier today I asked one of the mods here why these threads are even allowed to go on anymore, as they all end up in the same space, with predictable responses.

The answer I got back was "why not".

They only serve to reinforce the ill will that builds around here, but I guess worse than that, is the desire to keep pushing the envelope. The post you responded to here, is one of the most generally, all encompassing insults thrown here in a long time. Certainly that I remember anyway. Sad. My ignore list just keeps growing longer. I remember a time when this was a pretty civil place.

I trust the powers that be are happy with the result.

[Viper]

New York Yankees
Taste great
And less filling
Campy, Shimano
Tubular, Clincher
Now Kanye's Kim K
She's a cincher

Red Sox
Jobs' Mac
IBM Windows
Charcoal, Gas
Cash or Credit
Online Poker
Double click, bet it

It's just a brand
But baby my brand
It don't mean thing baby
What matters is in your hand
But it's my brand baby
Didn't you hear me at all
Don't you get
No matter what you wear
It's the time you won't forget

Rapha isn't first
And won't be the last
Put a kit on
You'll feel fast
Or maybe slow
Whose to say
What is real
What's the truth if you don't see it
What's a lie if you believe it
Quote
Quote her
Quote me
Quote you
Quote them
Ride your bike
Around the bend
And should you care
What anyone thinks
Is like caring about
What a drunk drinks
So long as you don't
Cheat
Lie
Steal
But strive for perfection
What's the matter with what you wear
If you don't mind
They won't care

Move on your moments
Follow your feelings
Skepticisms
Disbelieving
Ride a bike
You never move
Only the wheels do
Don't make
Your green eyes blue
Don't ever
Cheat
Lie
Steal
It's what your folks said
Wear your Rapha
And sleep in your own bed
Don't
Cheat
Lie
Steal
Windy hot air always blows
Just lower your keel
And when you find love
Know how to kneel
And see what you see
And always remember
That moment on one knee

chica-chica bow-wow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jke3oXuKOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7ZLSRub2M&feature=relmfu

:beer:

[Kirk007]

It must have cut deep.

Ha! This is like fencing with wooden swords, no blood drawn by a bunch of banter about nothing. Here's the thing though. You state people who buy Rapha are dbags. I buy Rapha ergo you have called me a dbag. When called out you claim nothing personal.

Come on at least have the cojones to man up and own your argument instead of whining like some punk sprinter who just got schooled at the line by his elder.

Your rant was nothing more than ad hominem bs -there was no substance. Weak sauce. You seem to dropped your sense of humor somewhere on the last climb as well.

[William]

I don't love Rapha. I don't hate Rapha. I just like to joke around, and their marketing schtick makes it very easy.:)





William

[Louis]

Why do I continue to be surprised when people get all worked up about a topic that has been hashed and re-hashed so many times it's lost its meaning?

We all know this Rapha-hate stuff has become a joke. Why become incensed over something like this?

Save your energy the O vs. R election threads coming this fall.

BTW, Rapha + a fancy watch = Nirvana ;)

[William]

Why do I continue to be surprised when people get all worked up about a topic that has been hashed and re-hashed so many times it's lost its meaning?

We all know this Rapha-hate stuff has become a joke. Why become incensed over something like this?

Save your energy the O vs. R election threads coming this fall.

BTW, Rapha + a fancy watch = Nirvana ;)


I think SRAM helped kill off all the Campy vs. Shimano threads. Something had to take it's place.;)





William

[54ny77]

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Mugatu-zoolander-602176_338_238.jpg

[Kirk007]

Save your energy the O vs. R election threads coming this fall.

;)

Ah we can only dream ; ) I don't think that will fly

[Kirk007]

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Mugatu-zoolander-602176_338_238.jpg

I think we need a walk-off with Hinaut as the judge.

[jpw]

Simon is a great guy !

a marketing guru above all

and sometimes I find it is a bit too much, but who mind.

I like him more than I like the quality of Rapha production not very consistent across the line, but nice looking.

If I were to be riding along with him on every ride then this would be an important consideration. I'm not, and so it isn't. If I were to be riding Rapha every ride then this would be an imperative consideration. I'm not, and because it isn't.

[Elefantino]

Save your energy the O vs. R election threads coming this fall.
Please.

No.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Save your energy the O vs. R election threads coming this fall.

No. From the user agreement . . .

• For discussion of partisan political topics. If a discussion devolves into partisan politics it will be shut down by the moderators and the thread may be deleted. Experience has taught us these discussions inevitably deteriorate.

Maybe on some other cycling forum, but not here.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

Earlier today I asked one of the mods here why these threads are even allowed to go on anymore, as they all end up in the same space, with predictable responses.

The answer I got back was "why not".

They only serve to reinforce the ill will that builds around here, but I guess worse than that, is the desire to keep pushing the envelope. The post you responded to here, is one of the most generally, all encompassing insults thrown here in a long time. Certainly that I remember anyway. Sad. My ignore list just keeps growing longer. I remember a time when this was a pretty civil place.

I trust the powers that be are happy with the result.

A thread that continues to garner many views and new posts--as long as it does not contain material that violates the user agreement--indicates that it is a subject that members want to discuss. It may not be a topic that you in particular want to hear any more about, but we mods are here to enable members to discuss what THEY want to talk about as long as its in good taste.

We are not here to dictate what WE think members should be talking about and shut it down when WE feel like they've discussed it enough. That's like sitting in on a conversation at your local cycling tavern and then suddenly saying, "I don't want to talk about this anymore so I'm not going to let any of you talk about it anymore either."

If you do not like a topic, you're always free to move on to a different thread. Plenty to choose from.

As to the "ill will" . . . While I have not done any detailed research, I'm on here every day reading a lot of stuff (and even the stuff I don't care about and would skip if I were a regular member). Also keep in mind that we mods almost always start a thread of our own in the mods section to let each other know when we have locked a thread and why.

It's my definite impression from that that we have locked far FEWER threads since we became The Paceline than in the months before that transition. My overall anecdotal impression based on my experience is that there is less "ill will" on here than there has been in the past.

As far as I'm concerned as a mod, if people want to discuss--and maybe diss--Rapha from now until the cows come home, they can do it as long as they don't violate forum rules. I think it's a waste of time, but go ahead . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[54ny77]

http://www.bitrebels.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Undercap-Underwear-For-Head-1.jpg

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Drawers (add very thick NY accent, think Carmella Soprano, or me for that matter :p) for your head. What a country.

Page 12!!!

[54ny77]

rawkin' a hipstah head sawk, yo.

Drawers (add very thick NY accent, think Carmella Soprano, or me for that matter :p) for your head. What a country.

Page 12!!!

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I know I'm way too old to know what is cool anymore, but, really? I mean, really? Underwear on your head, and coasters in your ears?

Thread drift over.

[54ny77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUFxj59Fa9o

I know I'm way too old to know what is cool anymore, but, really? I mean, really? Underwear on your head, and coasters in your ears?

[Viper]

I almost bought a pair of Rapha socks a few years ago. Then asked myself if they were better than my DeFeet Woolie Boolie. Or Wooleator. I asked if I would miss little white sheep on the bottom of the socks, or the black sheep on the Woolie Boolie Black Sheep. I <3 my little sheep. I asked if 'Made 100% in USA' mattered to me. I went with these:

http://www.rei.com/zoom/dd/84f7a754-62c3-487f-bbad-bc780f622e72.jpg/440

:beer:

[AngryScientist]

I almost bought a pair of Rapha socks a few years ago. Then asked myself if they were better than my DeFeet Woolie Boolie. Or Wooleator. I asked if I would miss little white sheep on the bottom of the socks, or the black sheep on the Woolie Boolie Black Sheep. I <3 my little sheep. I asked if 'Made 100% in USA' mattered to me. I went with these:

http://www.rei.com/zoom/dd/84f7a754-62c3-487f-bbad-bc780f622e72.jpg/440

:beer:

REI actually has house branded merino wool socks that, in my experience are excellent. i bought a few pairs with my rebate this year.

[bobswire]

A thread that continues to garner many views and new posts--as long as it does not contain material that violates the user agreement--indicates that it is a subject that members want to discuss. It may not be a topic that you in particular want to hear any more about, but we mods are here to enable members to discuss what THEY want to talk about as long as its in good taste.

We are not here to dictate what WE think members should be talking about and shut it down when WE feel like they've discussed it enough. That's like sitting in on a conversation at your local cycling tavern and then suddenly saying, "I don't want to talk about this anymore so I'm not going to let any of you talk about it anymore either."

If you do not like a topic, you're always free to move on to a different thread. Plenty to choose from.

As to the "ill will" . . . While I have not done any detailed research, I'm on here every day reading a lot of stuff (and even the stuff I don't care about and would skip if I were a regular member). Also keep in mind that we mods almost always start a thread of our own in the mods section to let each other know when we have locked a thread and why.

It's my definite impression from that that we have locked far FEWER threads since we became The Paceline than in the months before that transition. My overall anecdotal impression based on my experience is that there is less "ill will" on here than there has been in the past.

As far as I'm concerned as a mod, if people want to discuss--and maybe diss--Rapha from now until the cows come home, they can do it as long as they don't violate forum rules. I think it's a waste of time, but go ahead . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

BBD All that is fine and good but doesn't address the original complaint,I think when you start to refer to forumites as douchebags simply for wearing Rapha crosses the line.

[ClutchCargo]

New York Yankees
Taste great
And less filling
Campy, Shimano
Tubular, Clincher
Now Kanye's Kim K
She's a cincher

Red Sox
Jobs' Mac
IBM Windows
Charcoal, Gas
Cash or Credit
Online Poker
Double click, bet it

It's just a brand
But baby my brand
It don't mean thing baby
What matters is in your hand
But it's my brand baby
Didn't you hear me at all
Don't you get
No matter what you wear
It's the time you won't forget

Rapha isn't first
And won't be the last
Put a kit on
You'll feel fast
Or maybe slow
Whose to say
What is real
What's the truth if you don't see it
What's a lie if you believe it
Quote
Quote her
Quote me
Quote you
Quote them
Ride your bike
Around the bend
And should you care
What anyone thinks
Is like caring about
What a drunk drinks
So long as you don't
Cheat
Lie
Steal
But strive for perfection
What's the matter with what you wear
If you don't mind
They won't care

Move on your moments
Follow your feelings
Skepticisms
Disbelieving
Ride a bike
You never move
Only the wheels do
Don't make
Your green eyes blue
Don't ever
Cheat
Lie
Steal
It's what your folks said
Wear your Rapha
And sleep in your own bed
Don't
Cheat
Lie
Steal
Windy hot air always blows
Just lower your keel
And when you find love
Know how to kneel
And see what you see
And always remember
That moment on one knee

chica-chica bow-wow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jke3oXuKOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7ZLSRub2M&feature=relmfu

:beer:

No posting after drinking, please.

[Viper]

No posting after drinking, please.

Artists work 24/7. Jonathon Livingston Seagull is sober. You know who's drunk? The ****ing CEO of Rapha!

:beer:

[ClutchCargo]

Artists work 24/7. Jonathon Livingston Seagull is sober. You know who's drunk? The ****ing CEO of Rapha!

:beer:

The CEO of Rapha is an artiste.
He told me so. ;)

[BumbleBeeDave]

BBD All that is fine and good but doesn't address the original complaint,I think when you start to refer to forumites as douchebags simply for wearing Rapha crosses the line.

I must have missed that post. Forgive me if I don't go back and read all umpteen pages. Was this directed at an individual? That would indeed violate the rules. Or was it directed at everybody?

Maybe we need to add something to the agreement about mass personal attacks?

BBD

[ClutchCargo]

I must have missed that post. Forgive me if I don't go back and read all umpteen pages. Was this directed at an individual? That would indeed violate the rules. Or was it directed at everybody?

Maybe we need to add something to the agreement about mass personal attacks?

BBD

Not directed at an individual, Dave. Dude said something to the effect that all people who wear Rapha are d-bags. someone else then posted, "oh, so I wear Rapha, so you're calling me a d-bag." 7th grade stuff, to be sure.

[Viper]

If it will create peace throughout the galaxy, I will drive my e39 to the swamplands of Florida. There I will be trained in the ways of the fixed-gear, by Fixed, like my father before me. I will levitate rocks and frame pumps, alongside my trusty Labrador Retriever (I need a dog, haven't been able to replace my Samantha, yellow Lab, passed since December 2002). I will do handstands and eat Kashi snacks. I'll think about a hot brunette. I'll do all of this wearing a Rapha baselayer. I'll even wear Rapha boxer shorts.

If this will bring peace to the galaxy, I will face the challenges of Rapha and unite the Forum.

[saab2000]

If it will create peace throughout the galaxy, I will drive my e39 to the swamplands of Florida. There I will be trained in the ways of the fixed-gear, by Fixed, like my father before me. I will levitate rocks and frame pumps, alongside my trusty Labrador Retriever (I need a dog, haven't been able to replace my Samantha, yellow Lab, passed since December 2002). I will do handstands and eat Kashi snacks. I'll think about a hot brunette. I'll do all of this wearing a Rapha baselayer. I'll even wear Rapha boxer shorts.

If this will bring peace to the galaxy, I will face the challenges of Rapha and unite the Forum.

Will you bathe with Rapha soap? Or just not bathe at all during this period?

I think I'm going to go the the Rapha website to drink in more epicness before I go out for my ride.

I will be wearing a Rapha jersey for today's spin.

[William]

I will be wrapping my helmet with the Rapha duct tape to add just a tad more epicness to my already epic self.







:p

William

[Ahneida Ride]

Not to fond of of the DB comment either ...

I once considered purchasing Rapha gloves ...

does that make me a DB ?

I ride in cotton baggy shorts and a t shirt ..

[bobswire]

Not to fond of of the DB comment either ...

I once considered purchasing Rapha gloves ...

does that make me a DB ?

I ride in cotton baggy shorts and a t shirt ..

Same here, it's all I can afford but I'm not going to demean those that can because of envy.

[Viper]

Will you bathe with Rapha soap? Or just not bathe at all during this period?

I think I'm going to go the the Rapha website to drink in more epicness before I go out for my ride.

I will be wearing a Rapha jersey for today's spin.

Gillette Sensor Excel shave, we as cyclists like the word "gilet/gillett" with Rapha soap, Rapha bath towel and of course, my Rapaha ascot. Since the swampland near Fixed is laden with mosquitos (pr. moh-squeat-ohs aka New Jersey houseflies) I will use Rapha Tea Tree Oil moisturizing lotion.

:beer:

[ClutchCargo]

I will be wrapping my helmet with the Rapha duct tape to add just a tad more epicness to my already epic self.







:p

William

I wonder how long it will be before we see a Rapha branded $400 helmet. Not long, I hope. I'm getting tired of seeing dudes clad in all-Rapha on the site having to wear those crappy Specialized lids (when they deign to wear a helmet at all, that is).

But, really, look here: http://www.rapha.cc/paris-roubaix-challenge-jersey
Nicely done, in my book. And for $60, it stacks up pretty well against that $40 Campy T-shirt that was featured in the Performance catalog I got yesterday.

[bobswire]

I wonder how long it will be before we see a Rapha branded $400 helmet. Not long, I hope. I'm getting tired of seeing dudes clad in all-Rapha on the site having to wear those crappy Specialized lids (when they deign to wear a helmet at all, that is).

But, really, look here: http://www.rapha.cc/paris-roubaix-challenge-jersey
Nicely done, in my book. And for $60, it stacks up pretty well against that $40 Campy T-shirt that was featured in the Performance catalog I got yesterday.


I went ahead and took the plunge and glad I did,a notch above my Castelli jerseys and cost me less. Most likely the only Rapha jersey I could afford.
Personally I prefer understated jerseys.
http://i40.tinypic.com/29vcr50.jpg

[benb]

DB comments aside my prediction is Rapha will go the way of the do-do if the current cycling as way to show off disposable income fad/bubble bursts..

They are cashing in while they can.

There is a big difference between someone buying a couple pieces of Rapha gear that were on sale (which seems to be people here) IMO and someone who buys into the whole schtick and suits up in $2000 worth of Rapha gear to put on the look. Same thing as the guy who buys a Team replica bike and goes out in head-to-to replica kit vs the guy who buys the jersey on the markdown rack.

I have a couple pairs of the cheapest Assos bibs.. does that mean I'm going to go buy a complete Assos outfit? Not a chance in hell.

I usually don't match brands.. I think for a lot of us you could draw the line somewhere between people who just buy individual pieces that work when they can get a good deal versus people who are clearly trying to put on a particular look.

Bibs are something I think we can all appreciate the difference on.. but paying extra for a pair of Assos or Rapha socks? They are really not going to be 3X better then those Defeet socks... putting the whole outfit together to look like you stepped out of the catalog really makes it look like you're trying to impress someone with clothes rather then skills.

[ultratoad]

Thirteen pages-- Wow! Just got my Rapha shoes-- sweet....

[pdmtong]

There is a big difference between someone buying a couple pieces of Rapha gear that were on sale (which seems to be people here) IMO and someone who buys into the whole schtick and suits up in $2000 worth of Rapha gear to put on the look.

it's not too hard to get the "look".

first, you buy the classic bibs. people rave about them. so I took a flyer. for me they work great. all black, unassuming. then you buy a jersey on sale, <$100. or, better, buy the "classic bundle" with a coupon - jersey, arm warmers, socks and a cap. best value. and guess what, now you have a kit. and all you really did was buy two main things. I think that whole thing cost me $344 no tax free ship.

The arm warmers dont fall down, ever. The cap is made from some kind of schoeller fabric, and performs great as my <60d head cover. once it gets warm, I just use a pace or other lycra sweat head thing.

That's a $1660 savings from $2k.

I guess that makes me a dentist when i roll out on my ottrott.

[saab2000]

Thirteen pages-- Wow! Just got my Rapha shoes-- sweet....

Report on those shoes ASAP.

I'll take mine in white, thank you very much.

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3222-70.jpg

[ultratoad]

Report on those shoes ASAP.

I'll take mine in white, thank you very much.

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3222-70.jpg

We agree on the white-- gorgeous, but I got the black. I just knew what the white ones would look like after a few weeks!

Giro shoes just really fit me, and the Rapha (made my Giro) are no exception. I am a 45 and the Rapha's are just a little roomer (all around) than my SLX's.

I was able to get them a week early and now have 100+ miles on them. The Easton soles are as good as it gets, and the leather uppers are super comfortable. Very well made shoe with great attention to detail-- I really like them with no complaints thus far....

[pdmtong]

Thirteen pages-- Wow! Just got my Rapha shoes-- sweet....

even the box they come in is sweet. hows the yak leather feel?

[54ny77]

"No, really, hope you like 'em."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-s5OfP8-TrNA/TZ8w8ErUFfI/AAAAAAAACM0/MRlNy_deMsk/s1600/yak.jpg

;)

[BumbleBeeDave]

I went ahead and took the plunge and glad I did,a notch above my Castelli jerseys and cost me less. Most likely the only Rapha jersey I could afford.
Personally I prefer understated jerseys.
http://i40.tinypic.com/29vcr50.jpg

. . . you need to get some! :p

Just sayin' . . . ;)

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . with those Kashi snacks!

BBD

If it will create peace throughout the galaxy, I will drive my e39 to the swamplands of Florida. There I will be trained in the ways of the fixed-gear, by Fixed, like my father before me. I will levitate rocks and frame pumps, alongside my trusty Labrador Retriever (I need a dog, haven't been able to replace my Samantha, yellow Lab, passed since December 2002). I will do handstands and eat Kashi snacks. I'll think about a hot brunette. I'll do all of this wearing a Rapha baselayer. I'll even wear Rapha boxer shorts.

If this will bring peace to the galaxy, I will face the challenges of Rapha and unite the Forum.

[pdmtong]

if you missed the red one here's the green one
http://www.rapha.cc/la-doyenne-classique-jersey/

[Lovetoclimb]

I was saying this to anyone who would listen a few years ago. If you love riding, you'll find tech because it's MORE.

Gawd this is a dumb thread. I don't think anyone read the interview but me but I thought it was good.

I was wondering how many people read the interview as well! Glad it got some reference again this far in. Banana!:banana:

[canadasteep]

Wow, what a thread.

In short, I'm glad Rapha exists.
I was at their NYC temp. shop a few years back and it was a really well conceived an executed space. The extra long communal table with the topo map underglass was a nice touch.

As for the marketing? Too bad - success spawns detractors.
Don't get me wrong, I get that people don't like the brand.
And some love it.
And some love Rapha - but only sale.

I'm glad they exist because their success is influencing other companies to consider understated jerseys - which isn't a bad thing to me.

Some of their pieces are thoughful, some don't last as long as some have mentioned. The bibs are amazing? Good to know (when they are on sale).

I do own the fixed/bomber jacket and found it very practical for biking around town/cold weather. 3m Reflective built-in, longer back, knit cuffs to keep the wind out/heat in, key clip in the right sleeve, and made out of real outdoorsy fabrics vs nylon to cash in on the whole biking is cool upswing we are all witness to. Pretty much it was a unique item I couldn't find anything similar to.

The trousers ($80, sale again) is hard to beat, I mean, how much are well made dress pants these days, they fit well and have a zipped rear wallet pocket.

Some stuff I do not like, like the high prices...the over the top marketing, but it's part of the branding to allow it to exist.
Also, their branded Rocket espresso machine? Single boiler? Sorry, dual boiler or nothing when you are in the 2K range.

Just occured to me, maybe they will have a "classico" line of locally sourced and made jerseys that will be all wool?

[thirdgenbird]

Rapha+Gizoogle= fun (language warning) (http://www.gizoogle.net/index.php?search=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rapha.cc%2Fshop% 2F&se=Gizoogle+Dis+Shiznit)



For those that don't know, Gizoogle is a parody on google translate that changes websites to snoop dogg inspired slang. http://www.gizoogle.net/more.php

[Marz]

Rapha fan here. Primarily because their kits, unlike so many other premium cycling brands, do not look terrible.

Seriously, what the eff is this :confused: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2012-assos-heritage-pack-8711.4.1.html

Just one man's opinion.

Exactly.

[Marz]

Rapha is as phony as a $3 bill...(and they probably have a few of those for sale for $79, shipping and gift wrapping included)

Too cynical.

Any evidence for your assertion?

[akelman]

NOTE: this thread was dead for more than a year. Whether it needed to be resurrected is another issue entirely.

[Marz]

definitive answer?

I don't hate them......I'm just not interested

If you're not interested why do you keep posting your negative comments?

[pbarry]

"I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that."
~Lloyd Dobler

I have four pair of Allen Edmonds shoes. Allen Edmond's marketing isn't a line of utter black and white pics with nonsense. Shoes. Leather. Handmade. USA. Took care of peeps in WWII. They last forever and tell me if this isn't a brand people would stand with, literally:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Edmonds

I buy the cheapest pairs of cedar tress on ebay. I try to eat enough fiber, daily. You can only do so much. But with Rapha, it's the marketing hype I cannot buy, not for a dime or a nickel. I know they have New England and other parts of the country somewhat brain-washed. Their marketing and free beer is a powerful tool. If someone wears their stuff I never offend them and hey, if they like Rapha, it's all good. But I still do not like the company, the image, the faux-we-care-campaigns and I don't drink that much so free beer ain't my cup of tea.

cliffs:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEgu7jdc_fs

:beer:

YEP. :hello:

[akelman]

If you're not interested why do you keep posting your negative comments?

Again, the thread has been dead for more than a year. Look at the date stamp on people's comments. If you want to start this fight again, maybe start a whole new thread. I'm sure you'll get some takers.

[Marz]

I have a negative reaction to Rapha products. I am not sure why. I think maybe because they are marketing exclusivity, and I have always taken issue with the elitist hierarchy in the sport.

If they were hand made of natural fabrics blessed by the Eddy Merckx, I would bow to the argument of commensurate price and quality. But their products are made in China just like everything else.

BL

Are we venturing into racist territory here?

I think manufacturing quality in the west went downhill a long time ago.

Remember when people laughed at 'Made in Japan'?

[pbarry]

Funny, I didn't even check the date, hee.. Whatever witcombusa said last year, I second. Carry on.

[Marz]

Marketing and image is all that Rapha is. This is not a company that started out with the intention of owning factories and making things. It is not a company that started with the problem of how to sell a product to the public. It is a company that started with a cynical lifestyle marketing plan before the first product was even conceived. If people are turned off by Rapha's marketing then they are turned off by the foundation of the company.

Rapha is lifestyle marketing run amuck. It represents everything that is wrong in cycling today. It is douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. Which is not to say that nice things or expensive things are bad, but the reasoning behind buying the stuff has become yuppified. Stuff is bought with an eye toward one-upping others in the group ride rather than for reasons of intrinsic quality. Hence we get people dropping 10K on stock bikes popped out of molds in China when they could spend less for something made to measure, custom painted, and made in the U.S. They don't care because the only metric used to judge goodness is the price.

Oh pleeeeeze, what BS.

Angry too. It's clothing it's stylish and it works.

If the product didn't work it would be long gone by now.

[Marz]

Oops, didn't notice that it was an old thread and got carried away.

[rustylion]

i like branding. i am fascinated by what people do with brands. Rapha interests me not as a customer but as a businessman.

to me, Rapha seems more like Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Calvin Klein, Armani, Hugo Boss instead of Levi, Wrangler, Patagonia, Nike, Northface and so on. Rapha seems to want to grab the word "luxury" and insert it into cycling.

Cycling - pro cyling I mean - is hard; even my weekend group rides are no walk in the park. i sweat, suffer and it is not a pretty picture when i get home. Pros - the guys/gals who epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort - get paid little to suffer much so they can earn a living as they live their passion. Most of the peleton are not living anything but a hard life day-in, day-out.

to me, cycling and luxury don't share the same sentence.

[cfox]

i like branding. i am fascinated by what people do with brands. Rapha interests me not as a customer but as a businessman.

to me, Rapha seems more like Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Calvin Klein, Armani, Hugo Boss instead of Levi, Wrangler, Patagonia, Nike, Northface and so on. Rapha seems to want to grab the word "luxury" and insert it into cycling.

Cycling - pro cyling I mean - is hard; even my weekend group rides are no walk in the park. i sweat, suffer and it is not a pretty picture when i get home. Pros - the guys/gals who epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort - get paid little to suffer much so they can earn a living as they live their passion. Most of the peleton are not living anything but a hard life day-in, day-out.

to me, cycling and luxury don't share the same sentence.

HEH?? This is what Serotta tried to do and failed at, hence your existence now at the company. If Serotta's goal is to make premium products sold at premium prices, then you guys should watch and learn from a company like Rapha. BTW some of the recent build pics floating around look terrific.

[joosttx]

I love their:
videos
Underwear
Jersey pockets
Long sleeve winter jersey
Cappuccino they serve at the SF store.


BTW Any of you fat guys ever use their merino base layers as spanks?

[buddybikes]

de Soto american made, great service, great fit, good value

[akelman]

i like branding. i am fascinated by what people do with brands. Rapha interests me not as a customer but as a businessman.

to me, Rapha seems more like Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Calvin Klein, Armani, Hugo Boss instead of Levi, Wrangler, Patagonia, Nike, Northface and so on. Rapha seems to want to grab the word "luxury" and insert it into cycling.

Cycling - pro cyling I mean - is hard; even my weekend group rides are no walk in the park. i sweat, suffer and it is not a pretty picture when i get home. Pros - the guys/gals who epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort - get paid little to suffer much so they can earn a living as they live their passion. Most of the peleton are not living anything but a hard life day-in, day-out.

to me, cycling and luxury don't share the same sentence.

This has to be one of the more surprising comments I've ever seen posted at this place.

[njgustafson]

i like branding. i am fascinated by what people do with brands. Rapha interests me not as a customer but as a businessman.

to me, Rapha seems more like Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Calvin Klein, Armani, Hugo Boss instead of Levi, Wrangler, Patagonia, Nike, Northface and so on. Rapha seems to want to grab the word "luxury" and insert it into cycling.

Cycling - pro cyling I mean - is hard; even my weekend group rides are no walk in the park. i sweat, suffer and it is not a pretty picture when i get home. Pros - the guys/gals who epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort - get paid little to suffer much so they can earn a living as they live their passion. Most of the peleton are not living anything but a hard life day-in, day-out.

to me, cycling and luxury don't share the same sentence.

Isn't Serotta's raison d'être based on inserting "luxury" into cycling? I mean, $3000 stock framesets and all.

[Louis]

I may be all wet here, but in Serotta's defense, unlike Rapha and some of the other names mentioned above, I don't think they ever tried to build the brand into a "lifestyle" thing.

[soulspinner]

Don't forget, if you buy the shoes, you need the aromatic cedar shoe trees to go with them ($10 more than Allen Edmonds shoe trees, by the way).

http://www.rapha.cc/rapha-shoe-trees

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3224-08.jpg

Aroma isn't the whole story, the shoe trees suck the moisture out of yer shoes, and they last longer as a result................

[oldpotatoe]

i like branding. i am fascinated by what people do with brands. Rapha interests me not as a customer but as a businessman.

to me, Rapha seems more like Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Calvin Klein, Armani, Hugo Boss instead of Levi, Wrangler, Patagonia, Nike, Northface and so on. Rapha seems to want to grab the word "luxury" and insert it into cycling.

Cycling - pro cyling I mean - is hard; even my weekend group rides are no walk in the park. i sweat, suffer and it is not a pretty picture when i get home. Pros - the guys/gals who epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort - get paid little to suffer much so they can earn a living as they live their passion. Most of the peleton are not living anything but a hard life day-in, day-out.

to me, cycling and luxury don't share the same sentence.

Disagree. Rapha is to cycling as Apple is to computers, et.al. Branding wise and they are both very good at it.

Watch the videos and you will see people, on bicycles, enjoying their ride that day in beautiful surroundings, stopping to drink a beer and then go home.

Those that 'epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort', are the ones I see in their videos.

It's supposed to be fun, with a sense of accomplishment, but overall, people riding a BICYCLE, after all..Not supposed to be work, which is what you imply cycling is.

[tiretrax]

to me, Rapha seems more like Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Calvin Klein, Armani, Hugo Boss instead of Levi, Wrangler, Patagonia, Nike, Northface and so on. Rapha seems to want to grab the word "luxury" and insert it into cycling.

to me, cycling and luxury don't share the same sentence.

All the bolded are "luxury" brands. NorthFace is more of a clothing company than an outdoor sports company.

Any company that wants to survive has to market their goods, and Rapha is excellent at it. The great irony is they utilize the "purity" of the sport in their campaigns, but so many haters turn down their nose at it as pretention. I happen to like it and love their videos.

[bluesea]

Disagree. Rapha is to cycling as Apple is to computers, et.al. Branding wise and they are both very good at it.

Watch the videos and you will see people, on bicycles, enjoying their ride that day in beautiful surroundings, stopping to drink a beer and then go home.

Those that 'epitomize the most genuine, authentic cycling effort', are the ones I see in their videos.

It's supposed to be fun, with a sense of accomplishment, but overall, people riding a BICYCLE, after all..Not supposed to be work, which is what you imply cycling is.



U-h-h-h, I would tend to put Rapha's product line into the don't-really-need-it list. Apple? Their products are becoming indispensable even in aviation.

[e-RICHIE]

I like Rapha. Every so often something or someone comes along and the energy that it/he brings changes the game. The brand was started by bicycle people and remains run by the same. My experience with Rapha and companies like it is that those with the strongest opinions, the detractors, not only wish they thought of it first, but that they wish they were hardwired to have these types of ideas at all.

There are precious few who can be first at something. Sid (by way of Rapha) was the first. There was no model for this. That's priceless, and it also comes with its own set of problems, criticism among them.

[rnhood]

I am sure that I would be characterized as a detractor however, I don't buy Rapha because of the price. I think most (not all) of their goods are of reasonably good quality and well made but, I also consider much of it poor value based on the products available from other vendors. This is only my opinion however, your mileage may vary.

Having said this, by all means we need to enjoy the sport.....be it with a $50 quality jersey or a $200 quality jersey. I can only speak for myself, and I enjoy cycling the same whether I'm wearing $30 gloves or $150 gloves.

[Louis]

I can only speak for myself, and I enjoy cycling the same whether I'm wearing $30 gloves or $150 gloves.

$30 gloves? You're splurging!

One can get Airuis mesh-back gloves on Amazon for $11.08, free shipping. ;)

[Lionel]

I like Rapha and what they have done. I like their designs, etc... Unfortunately, all the pieces I bought where disappointing.

[earlfoss]

I like that this thread is 15 pages long. Rapha's marketing is working.

[e-RICHIE]

I like that this thread is 15 pages long. Rapha's marketing is working.

Reconfigure your settings. It's barely six pages here atmo.

[Louis]

I like that this thread is 15 pages long. Rapha's marketing is working.

But is is driving sales?

Length of thread doesn't necessarily correlate with profits.

[mosca]

I liked cycling better before Rapha made it so awesome.

[Louis]

I liked cycling better before Rapha made it so awesome.

Maybe you need more Rapha products to increase your hipness factor.

[mosca]

Maybe you need more Rapha products to increase your hipness factor.

I'm hopeless, therefore they are powerless against me.:banana:

[joosttx]

I like Rapha and what they have done. I like their designs, etc... Unfortunately, all the pieces I bought where disappointing.

Buy their underwear and cappucino. You will be happy.

[bluesea]

Maybe you need more Rapha products to increase your hipness factor.


Still fail, without facial hair overgrowth.

[fiamme red]

Buy their underwear and cappucino. You will be happy.You could buy the identical cappucino cup and saucer set from notNeutral for $36. Rapha just adds their trademark stripe and a quote from Hennie Kuiper on the bottom, and charges an extra 94%. I wonder if they're giving good old Hennie a percentage? :p

http://www.notneutral.com/index.php/dine/lino-cappuccino-cups-set.html

http://www.rapha.cc/rapha-cappuccino-cup-set

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3685-06.jpg

[Louis]

You could buy the identical cappucino cup and saucer set from notNeutral for $36. Rapha just adds their trademark stripe and a quote from Hennie Kuiper on the bottom, and charges an extra 94%.

ETBIIRA (Everything Tastes Better If It's Rapha Approved)*

Plus, it impresses all your hipster friends.


*Seriously, they've done tests with wine: In some the wine is labeled, including the price. In others it isn't. When they know the price, people tend to rate the more expensive wine higher than when they don't know the price. One explanation: when it isn't easy to distinguish between two semi-equivalent products price can serve as a signaling mechanism.

[fiamme red]

ETBIIRA (Everything Tastes Better If It's Rapha Approved)*

Plus, it impresses all your hipster friends.Rapha should bundle the cappucino set with a subscription to La Gazzetta dello Sport. After you're finished sipping the cappucino and leafing through the paper in the window of the bike shop/café (you don't understand more than a few words of Italian, but no matter), you can then stuff the Gazzetta under your jersey and ride off into the pouring rain and howling headwind, just as Andrea Tafi used to do. ;)

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3685-2000.jpg

[cfox]

ETBIIRA (Everything Tastes Better If It's Rapha Approved)*

Plus, it impresses all your hipster friends.


*Seriously, they've done tests with wine: In some the wine is labeled, including the price. In others it isn't. When they know the price, people tend to rate the more expensive wine higher than when they don't know the price. One explanation: when it isn't easy to distinguish between two semi-equivalent products price can serve as a signaling mechanism.

did the people in the study know anything about wine? my wine drinking friends and I have done this same experiment a few times: the cheap swill was easy to pick out every time.

[Louis]

This is all I know: NYT story (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/world/americas/15iht-wine.1.9221093.html)

[corky]

So much written, so much about the branding, the price, the marketing .....so little written about the quality, the function, the design.

maybe they should hire a Rapha girl and gymn boy and the sniping would stop.... but i doubt it.

[professerr]

Despite falling squarely in their target demographic, I’m really turned off by their marketing. Still, I’ve bought a few Rapha things. All three (a base layer, a neck gater, and arm warmers) were of mediocre quality and fit. And I don’t think their stuff is understated at all. Logos and pink all over the place. Calculated, conspicuous signaling is as old as alligator shirts. Blah.

[joosttx]

Rapha should bundle the cappucino set with a subscription to La Gazzetta dello Sport. After you're finished sipping the cappucino and leafing through the paper in the window of the bike shop/café (you don't understand more than a few words of Italian, but no matter), you can then stuff the Gazzetta under your jersey and ride off into the pouring rain and howling headwind, just as Andrea Tafi used to do. ;)

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3685-2000.jpg

Their (4-barrels) is the best cappuccino branded or blind. Taste test it for yourself.

[joosttx]

You could buy the identical cappucino cup and saucer set from notNeutral for $36. Rapha just adds their trademark stripe and a quote from Hennie Kuiper on the bottom, and charges an extra 94%. I wonder if they're giving good old Hennie a percentage? :p

http://www.notneutral.com/index.php/dine/lino-cappuccino-cups-set.html

http://www.rapha.cc/rapha-cappuccino-cup-set

http://www.rapha.cc/images/gallery/3685-06.jpg

Not talking about a tea set- wouldnt buy the stuff even if I could find a complete set at TJ Max. I am talking about the cappuccino. It's the best. I take mine in a paper cup attached to a F150 Supercrew.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8365/8573029622_4267a6d679.jpg

[Louis]

I am talking about the cappuccino. It's the best. I take mine in a paper cup attached to a F150 Supercrew.

Epic!

[oldpotatoe]

U-h-h-h, I would tend to put Rapha's product line into the don't-really-need-it list. Apple? Their products are becoming indispensable even in aviation.

uhhhh..not much in 'bicycles' are things you 'need'.

Computers 'may' be indispensible(altho I question that as well, as somebody who flew USN jets for 20 years, none but one A/C had a 'computer') in aviation but not APPLE computers.

In the A-4 and F-4..NO 'computers' whatsoever, for flying or navigating, around the 'boat' or not. Well maybe the RIO had some sort of analog 'computer' for the radar..but dropped bombs iron sight, no lead computing sight at all, no GPS, no INS. Looked out the window. Tacan was just a 'point at the signal' type navigation in the clag, with DME..but always landed visually.

AFAIK, still need 200-1/2 to land..computers probably make A/C more fuel efficient, makes targeting more accurate. still gotta look outside the window tho.