OT: thinking new desktop computer for more speed

[eddief]

I have a Compaq desktop computer with Athlon 3500+ 2.19Gh processor and a gig of ram. I use the computer primarily for basic biz stuff and web surfing my life away. For my job, I need to have a bunch o programs open at the same time. Lately seems like things are slow. Maybe my comcast connection, but maybe old bones in this box.

Will a new basic do all desktop computer from HP or Dell be way faster in loading programs and going from one to the other? Is this chip a dinosaur? Let's just say I got $500 to burn and just need the box...no keyboard, monitor, etc.

Any basic words of wisdom or do I need to do way more research?

[rice rocket]

Wait for Windows 8 to be released, and get as much RAM as your computer will take (it's really cheap nowadays).

It'll perform just as well as a "new" computer, without the cost.

The lack of RAM is really what's hurting your ability to have many programs open at once though, so address that issue while you wait for the new version of Windows to be released.

[54ny77]

LIke the prior poster said, it's amount of RAM and your cable connection (the up/down speeds). Throwing money at a new box doesn't equate to better performance, necessarily. I have a several year old HP desktop used for web surfing, personal computing, etc. It is not noticeably faster or slower than my high power work laptop. In my case, it's purely a function of cable modem up/down speeds. Running multiple apps in a Citrix platform needs a big fat pipe. I don't feel like spending the kind of monthly fees to get highest transfer rate plan, yet.

I have a Compaq desktop computer with Athlon 3500+ 2.19Gh processor and a gig of ram. I use the computer primarily for basic biz stuff and web surfing my life away. For my job, I need to have a bunch o programs open at the same time. Lately seems like things are slow. Maybe my comcast connection, but maybe old bones in this box.

Will a new basic do all desktop computer from HP or Dell be way faster in loading programs and going from one to the other? Is this chip a dinosaur? Let's just say I got $500 to burn and just need the box...no keyboard, monitor, etc.

Any basic words of wisdom or do I need to do way more research?

[neiltron]

RAM is awfully cheap these days. Cram that RAM!

If you *really* want a good speed boost, adding an SSD hard drive is the way to go. Your computer will feel like it's 25, has a pocket full of cash and summer just began.

[ORMojo]

I have . . . a gig of ram. . . . I need to have a bunch o programs open at the same time.

As has already been said, this is your problem. 1 gb of RAM is totally insufficient for running more than 2-3 programs at once, at most. And when the RAM "runs out" your computer starts using your hard disk space in place of the additional RAM it needs, and that really slows things down.

Put as much RAM in your current PC as you can. Check what it can handle - how much RAM per slot, how many slots. If the computer can handle it, you will be better off throwing away the 1 gb you currently have occupying one of the memory slots, and putting the maximum you can in each slot.

That said, if the computer is so old that it won't support at least 4 gb of RAM total, and ideally 8 gb or more, then don't bother, and get a new computer. In other words, if you could only upgrade to 2 gb, don't bother. If you can upgrade to 4 gb, that's good, 8 gb or more would be ideal.

If you are a member, if they carry the type you need, and you don't mind waiting about a week for shipment, Costco has good prices on computer memory http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?ec=BC-EC10626-Cat31022&pos=5&whse=BC&topnav=&cat=91044&eCat=BC|84|31022|91044&lang=en-US and you can always return it if you aren't satisfied with the change in performance.

Make sure you know what you need. Good luck!

P.S. Another tip: When you upgrade your RAM, or on a new computer, set the virtual memory in Windows to a large, fixed amount. (This is a good idea for any Windows computer, unless hard disk space is extremely limited.)

If you are running Vista, first ... upgrade to Windows 7 immediately! ... Right click on "Computer" (either on the desktop or in the Start menu), click on Properties. Click on Advanced System Settings, then under Advanced, Performance, click Settings, click Advanced, click Change under Virtual Memory. Then select Custom Size, and put the exact same number in both the Initial Size and Maximum Size boxes. Put at least the amount shown as Recommended, ideally put about four times that amount. I have 23,784 MB allocated.

If you are running Windows 7, follow these instructions http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Change-the-size-of-virtual-memory except in Step 7 do as I state above, and put the same large number in both boxes.

This will help the performance of any Windows computer.

[eddief]

motherboard has 4 slots and says it can address 4 gig.

[ORMojo]

motherboard has 4 slots and says it can address 4 gig.

4 gig total, or 4 per slot?

[eddief]

1 gig per slot.

[vqdriver]

Max that out.
Only thing I'd add is that I'd buy four modules for a matched set instead of three additional. Not guaranteed to be a problem but it happens. And as said. Ram is cheap.

[bargainguy]

If you just need a new desktop, Windows 7 plus make sure it's the 64-bit processor instead of the 32-bit. Dual core or quad core preferred.

I like buying towers at Costco because they're reasonably priced (Costco never sells anything for more than 14% over their price, their business model for markup) and they tack on an additional year of warranty onto the manufacturer's term. That's huge in my book.

Don

[zmudshark]

Did I miss what OS you are operating?

There may be a limit on what your OS will recognize. If you are on Windows, this may help:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#physical_memory_limits_ windows_7

32 bit vs 64 bit, etc.

I'll second the Costco suggestion. A good friend just bought one of their computers. I was better equipped than even a Dell outlet computer, at a better price.

If I was going for speed, I'd build my own through Newegg or MWave, and get an SSD drive for the OS.

[eddief]

as i have been reading, sounds as if 32 bit op sys can only recognize 3.2 gig. but if i have to buy 4 new 1 gig modules, price seems ok, and getting at least 2 gig boost should help.


Did I miss what OS you are operating?

There may be a limit on what your OS will recognize. If you are on Windows, this may help:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#physical_memory_limits_ windows_7

32 bit vs 64 bit, etc.

I'll second the Costco suggestion. A good friend just bought one of their computers. I was better equipped than even a Dell outlet computer, at a better price.

If I was going for speed, I'd build my own through Newegg or MWave, and get an SSD drive for the OS.

[zmudshark]

as i have been reading, sounds as if 32 bit op sys can only recognize 3.2 gig. but if i have to buy 4 new 1 gig modules, price seems ok, and getting at least 2 gig boost should help.
Yes, you are correct. I am running 2GB on an Intel E6750, 2.67 GHz with a cheap video card. I don't game, and everything works just fine. If you game or do video editing, get a good video card, otherwise a few bucks worth of RAM and a fresh install would probably do you just fine.

[ORMojo]

OK, that's not ideal, because the 1 gig RAM modules are much more expensive per gig than the 4 gig modules. And because you can only upgrade to a max of 4 gig.

And I had overlooked the 32 vs 64-bit Windows question. You do need 64-bit Windows to use more than 4 gb. 32-bit Windows will recognize a full 4 gb, but, after subtracting video memory and other preload items, will only leave you somewhere between 3.2-3.6 gb to use. Still, if you can install 4 gb, do it.

Is it worth it on your current computer? That is your call. And, for 1 gig modules, Best Buy or Staples likely will have better prices than Costco. But there is that Costco return policy, because you may not be satisfied with your current computer even with 4 gb, and you probably won't want to use 1 gig modules in a new computer.

Will it be enough to go to 4 gb on your current computer? Likely yes- it WILL help, but there could be other things slowing you down. There is a way to estimate, given your situation of having to run multiple programs at once. A bit techy, but pretty easy. So, here goes . . .

What you need to figure out is the maximum total memory commit charge when you have everything open and running at once that you want.

The commit charge is how much memory is demanded by all of the current running processes/programs, across both physical and virtual memory.

The commit limit -the sum of your physical and virtual memory - sets an upper bound on how much private and pagefile-backed virtual memory can be allocated concurrently by running processes.

When the commit charge rises above the amount of real physical memory, things will start to slow down as the virtual (hard disk) memory starts to be used. This is especially true if the Virtual Memory settings are left at the default to let Windows manage the Virtual Memory, because as you need more Virtual Memory, Windows will constantly reconfigure (enlarge) your Virtual Memory page file on the hard disk, and all of this really slows things down. That is why the earlier tip to just go ahead and create a large fixed (permanent size) Virtual Memory page file will help performance.

When the commit charge hits the commit limit, things will really slow down, and not run properly. Any attempt to exceed the commit limit by a program or process will fail and things won’t run properly.

To give you some idea of why your computer is slowing down, right now on my computer I am only running one Internet Explorer window with 7 tabs open. Even that minimal use of the computer is currently using 1.72 gb of the 16 gb of physical memory in my box. You can see how easy it is to exceed the 1 gb you have, and slow things down. The good news is that after you start up Windows and get things running, the big hit on memory is that initial start-up, and additional programs use relatively small increments of memory. I don’t know what you need to run, but, for example, I just opened two instances of Word, an Excel spreadsheet, iTunes, and a 26-slide PowerPoint file, and the total memory in use only rose to 2.18 gb.

The only way to reasonably estimate the total memory your concurrent programs will use at once is to know the maximum total commit charge for the programs you like to have running at the same time.

So open everything you would like to have open at once, and check the Windows Task Manager “Performance” tab to see how much is being used. (Launch Task Manager by pressing CTRL+SHIFT+ESC) Look at the Memory usage, and also look at the Page File numbers – how much is being used and how much you currently have allocated. The Peak Commit Charge is essentially the total of the Memory & Page File in use numbers.

I'm guessing, with everything running that most or all of your physical memory will be used, and a good chunk of virtual memory.

Sorry this went on so long. In essence, going from 1 gig to 4 gig should help a lot, but use the steps above to give you some idea.

[ORMojo]

Oh, and defragment your hard drive - ideally before you reset/enlarge your Virtual Memory page file.

[zmudshark]

Also check prices for the type of physical RAM you need. Sometimes new is MUCH cheaper than old, which may mean a total MB/Processor upgrade.

[eddief]

So is that suggesting I am not using my entire 1 gig? and maybe not needing the hard drive as virtual. By the way, thanks for the suggestions. I have priced name brand 1 gig modules and they seem to run about $25 each for pc3200 memory non ecc. Have not opened the box yet, and can't remember what config is currently in the slots...maybe 4 256 modules.

Oh, and defragment your hard drive - ideally before you reset/enlarge your Virtual Memory page file.

[ORMojo]

Peak Commit = 820K
So is that suggesting I am not using my entire 1 gig? and maybe not needing the hard drive as virtual.

That is suspiciously low. Not even 1 MB??? You had everything open that you want to run concurrently? Even a fresh boot of Windows, with nothing else running, should have a much larger commit charge than that.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/ORMojo1/c002082f.jpg

For the screen capture above, I switched to another, older, computer, that, although it runs certain 24/7 processes for me, really isn’t doing much. My total commit charge at the moment is ~2.7 gb, and the peak commit charge has been near 3 gb.

Are you sure you are only getting 820k while running everything?

[neiltron]

Defraggler (http://www.piriform.com/defraggler) is a good free defragger.

Also try CCleaner (http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner), also free, to clear out old caches and things of the sort.

$100 for 4GB of RAM is a bit steep IMO. Try defragging and running ccleaner, and if it's still too slow for you, I would consider buying a new tower from Costco. You'll get a new Windows 7 license as well.

[eddief]

i just now opened even more stuff and only get 603mb commit charge...that number in the lower right corner of your screen shot.. so it sounds like i am not power using this thing and maybe more has to do with surfing than what is going here on my CPU.

opened the box and only 2 of 4 mem slots occupied so that must be 2x 512k modules. but maybe mem is not the prob. maybe my porn cache is clogged up.

That is suspiciously low. Not even 1 MB??? You had everything open that you want to run concurrently? Even a fresh boot of Windows, with nothing else running, should have a much larger commit charge than that.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/ORMojo1/c002082f.jpg

For the screen capture above, I switched to another, older, computer, that, although it runs certain 24/7 processes for me, really isn’t doing much. My total commit charge at the moment is ~2.7 gb, and the peak commit charge has been near 3 gb.

Are you sure you are only getting 820k while running everything?

[oldpotatoe]

I have a Compaq desktop computer with Athlon 3500+ 2.19Gh processor and a gig of ram. I use the computer primarily for basic biz stuff and web surfing my life away. For my job, I need to have a bunch o programs open at the same time. Lately seems like things are slow. Maybe my comcast connection, but maybe old bones in this box.

Will a new basic do all desktop computer from HP or Dell be way faster in loading programs and going from one to the other? Is this chip a dinosaur? Let's just say I got $500 to burn and just need the box...no keyboard, monitor, etc.

Any basic words of wisdom or do I need to do way more research?

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini

[SEABREEZE]

This thread may be useful

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=105302

[rice rocket]

XP is pretty slow. Microsoft has added a lot of optimizations since.

Windows 7 would speed things up a lot (mostly boot and load times), but Windows 8 is right around the corner with even more focus on bootup times and load speeds, I'd probably wait for that.

Also, the Athlon 3500+ should support 64-bit Windows.

[eddief]

and things seems to be running consistently faster; especially when the computer has been on a long time and when many programs are open. think i was hitting the memory ceiling on a regular basis and having to use virtual to compensate. thanks for the inputs.

[tuxbailey]

Are you handy with upgrading CPUs? Doing things like take out the old heat sink, put new CPU, new thermal compound, etc.

If you know what MB you are running and see whether it can be upgraded to run AM3 chips you can try upgrading the CPU as well.

If there is a Microcenter near you check to see if they have the AMD Phenom II X4 830 in stock.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0375737

They are selling it at $50 and and I just upgraded my Athlon X2 5000+ and I couldn't believe how much difference it makes.

Everything is faster.

[eddief]

the spec for my motherboard says it is compat with AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+
and that sounds like a rocketship compared to what's in there now. i might try it.

Are you handy with upgrading CPUs? Doing things like take out the old heat sink, put new CPU, new thermal compound, etc.

If you know what MB you are running and see whether it can be upgraded to run AM3 chips you can try upgrading the CPU as well.

If there is a Microcenter near you check to see if they have the AMD Phenom II X4 830 in stock.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0375737

They are selling it at $50 and and I just upgraded my Athlon X2 5000+ and I couldn't believe how much difference it makes.

Everything is faster.

[wallymann]

a desktop can be had thusly configured for about $350 with a 1tb HD, monitor not included.

keep in mind the relative investment and relative improvements when upgrading an older machine. adding more RAM can chew up $100 and you'll be running an older CPU constrained machine. if you upgrade the CPU you can easily chew up another $150 and you'll be running on an older platform.

get a new low-cost machine as i suggest, you'll have more RAM, more CPU, modern bits with more useful life...for not much more $$$.

I have a Compaq desktop computer with Athlon 3500+ 2.19Gh processor and a gig of ram. I use the computer primarily for basic biz stuff and web surfing my life away. For my job, I need to have a bunch o programs open at the same time. Lately seems like things are slow. Maybe my comcast connection, but maybe old bones in this box.

Will a new basic do all desktop computer from HP or Dell be way faster in loading programs and going from one to the other? Is this chip a dinosaur? Let's just say I got $500 to burn and just need the box...no keyboard, monitor, etc.

Any basic words of wisdom or do I need to do way more research?

[Germany_chris]

a desktop can be had thusly configured for about $350 with a 1tb HD, monitor not included.

Did you find that recently?

Hard Drive prices are coming back down but new egg is still close to $100 for a TB drive?

[tuxbailey]

the spec for my motherboard says it is compat with AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+
and that sounds like a rocketship compared to what's in there now. i might try it.

If you want it, I can give you my Athlon 64 X2 5000+. I upgraded mine to the Phenom and it is doing nothing at home. PM me your info and I can send it to you. You can just pay for shipping.

A little bit of new thermal compound (a few bucks) and you are set. If you haven't done this before, just watch some youtube video on how to upgrade your CPU and you are good to go.

[Jaq]

the spec for my motherboard says it is compat with AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+
and that sounds like a rocketship compared to what's in there now. i might try it.

If you have an AM2 mobo, you can run AM2 CPUs as well as AM2+ CPUs. Depending on the year you bought your system, you might have an AM2+ socket; they started coming out around late 2007, iirc.

AM2 socket supports: AM2 and AM2+ processors.
AM2+ socket supports: AM2, AM2+ and AM3 processors (all, essentially).
AM3 socket supports: AM2+ and AM3 processors.

You can, by the by, upgrade your mobo, mem, and CPU all at once if you're willing to do a little research, studying, prep, etc. It's not difficult, but it's not to be undertaken lightly. For instance, upgrading a mobo usually requires you to revalidate your Windows OS.

[tuxbailey]

Also, if your motherboard's BIOS can be flashed to upgrade to AM3 then you can add quad core processors !

[tuxbailey]

You can, by the by, upgrade your mobo, mem, and CPU all at once if you're willing to do a little research, studying, prep, etc. It's not difficult, but it's not to be undertaken lightly. For instance, upgrading a mobo usually requires you to revalidate your Windows OS.

very true. But if the OP just upgrade memory and CPU, then he doesn't need to reinstall OS, etc.

[Jaq]

If you want it, I can give you my Athlon 64 X2 5000+. I upgraded mine to the Phenom and it is doing nothing at home. PM me your info and I can send it to you. You can just pay for shipping.

A little bit of new thermal compound (a few bucks) and you are set. If you haven't done this before, just watch some youtube video on how to upgrade your CPU and you are good to go.

What a thoroughly decent thing to do. These boards are awesome.

Here's a great thermal compound avail. thru Newegg. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007)

[Dekonick]

One more tip - Get a SSD to use for your boot and program drive. Prices have come down on the smaller drives, especially SATA 2 now SATA 3 is out... You can get a 120 gig SSD for ~$90 bucks... it will make a BIG difference in boot times etc...

[eddief]

and got 4gb of memory from the great state of China for under $50...and it works...so far.

very true. But if the OP just upgrade memory and CPU, then he doesn't need to reinstall OS, etc.

[tuxbailey]

What a thoroughly decent thing to do. These boards are awesome.

Here's a great thermal compound avail. thru Newegg. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007)

ha, that is the same one I use.

[Germany_chris]

and got 4gb of memory from the great state of China for under $50...and it works...so far.

remember the newer the cheaper..

The Hackintosh just got 16GB of DDR3 1866 for $100

[tuxbailey]

remember the newer the cheaper..

The Hackintosh just got 16GB of DDR3 1866 for $100

True. I can't even find DDR2 memory for a good price :(

[Germany_chris]

True. I can't even find DDR2 memory for a good price :(

Try finding ECC DDR2 (2008 MP) for somthing less than mind-blowing.

[wallymann]

i picked up an HP w/ quad-core AMD, 8gb RAM, win7, 750gb HD for like $349 at woot. i run ubuntu and with that setup it's a SCREAMER. i also run win7 using virtuabox.

Did you find that recently?

Hard Drive prices are coming back down but new egg is still close to $100 for a TB drive?

[Earl Gray]

....Any basic words of wisdom or ...

Buy a new imac every 5-7 years and you will never ask anyone another computer question.