slow, sore, and frustrated! (long)

[700 x 23c]

I don't have any formal training program.

I enjoy riding, put about 6+ hours a week on the bike, and usually ride 3-5 times a week.

I don't race and don't intend on racing (especially at my speed….I average 15.5+ mph….12-13 up some hills and 20+ down some hills…..almost all solo riding).

I don't have my gears memorized (53 X12....I look back and see I am close to the outside, close to the inside, or in the middle somewhere).

I don't have a good sense of 500 meters vs. 1000 meters ect. on a bike
(Those last two comments come after re-reading about training)

I use a HRM, but find that if I try to keep my HR below a given number, I might roll backwards (especially true when it is hot [100+ here in the desert]).

I don't really see how training with a HRM will be very helpful. I know my heart rate is a good 20-30+ beats higher per minute in the summer here compared to the winter [60-70 degrees if you can call it winter] for any given effort. LT who knows? My Max HR appears to be around 192 (that is what it says after a good long hill before I am ready to either puke or passout). Resting HR…in the 40’s…low to mid. But, I don’t think my butt is on the saddle for more than 15 seconds before my HR is above 100 these hot days.

Do I have goals? Sure, I want to ride faster (who doesn't) and really want to complete a century more comfortably and in a shorter time. I am riding one in mid-November. Rode it last year in around 7 hours for 111 miles (6 hours of actual riding and I guess 1 hour of “rest” – some delay at the start line and a few areas where everyone has to walk/carry their bike….el tour de Tucson).

So what prompted this post? I went on a group ride yesterday and got smoked. Held on for a while, but felt like I was about to explode at any given time. The ride went up a slow climb at 18+ mph and when the road turned downhill, my speedometer read 32 mph and the group just pulled away from me :confused:

So, maybe I am not a good cyclist or not a fit one. Everyone has a level of natural talent, and perhaps my level is low. I have never been an outstanding athlete, but have improved with age (I guess like a fine wine / whine ;) ). I am not tall 5”5’ and 140 lbs….maybe taller riders are more powerful?

Perhaps I undertrain and don't push myself enough when I ride. Perhaps I need to suffer more to get stronger. I worry about the dreaded overtraining, but a recent article in Velonews (I think) got me wondering if I am at all capable of overtraining (it said something like only 2% of the population is capable of overtraining). I mean, if I only go out 3 to 4+ times a week, why not push it the whole ride? Or push it for certain segments of the ride. Screw my HR and just suffer like a stuck pig? The "you only get faster by riding faster."

Any thoughts or suggestions? Any training program designed for 3-4 x/wk of riding (I can’t find them)? Any thoughts about online training programs?

[eddief]

of course nothing wrong about getting in better shape. Or you could improve some and ride with a group more aligned with your level of fitness. I hate getting smoked too. I ride a lot alone and put in a lot of time and a lot of miles, but don't focus on a training regimen. And still can't believe how many riders of all ages and body types pass me like I'm standing still. Sometimes I get annoyed but mostly I'm glad to be my age and be able to ride 100 miles or more a week without keeling over.

[Too Tall]

Well, since you REFUSE (wink wink) to pay me to be your coach. How about starting with some light reading? Get a copy of Joe Friel's Cycling past 50 and read about how masters athletes deal with volume, intensity and overtraining. This is pertinent even for folks who are under the age of 50 and even more so if you ride as much as you do and are not coached...self or otherwise. Let me know what you think.

Hey, you do landscaping? I barter :)

[Fixed]

Hey Bro don't get dis hearted everyone here has had that happen to them at one time or another.The best rider I know fomer us crit.nat. champ.he's 51 now this guy won everytihng in the 70's I have the honor of training with him on a reg. basis.Heres what he tells me( Fix they are going to slow down just hang on a little longer) don't look at your h.r.m. you can hang on longer than you think and you will get more comforable in that pain state.I hope that helps now feel good about yourself you do something that most can't go have a beer and brag to your coworkers your a cyclist.Cheers :beer:

[Samster]

Just have fun. Otherwise, it's work!

[Ray]

I ride a little more than you do, am a little bigger, but am in the same average speed area (in a pretty hilly area, but probably not all that different than Scottsdale if you make a point to ride in the foothills and not just stick to the flat parts of the desert). I do B rides with my club a lot of Saturdays and am pretty comfortable on most of them, occasionally in the front of the pack and leading the pacemaking, usually hanging out in the pack, and fighting to stay on for the climbs on a bad day. When the fast groups come past, I can usually hang with them on the flats, but when the road starts going up, even a few percent, I slow down and they don't seem to - or not enough anyway. I've read Friel's book on cycling over 50, although I'm only 46. I tried doing some rides in his recommended zone 2-3 and, as you said, I'd be going backwards if I actually kept my heart rate that low. So I just ride the way that feels right, going hard sometimes and easy sometimes and in between a lot.

So I mostly just ride my bike and don't worry about it. There are a lot of people who are just flat faster than me and that's the way it is. I might be able to get a little faster if I was real structured about it, but probably not much and I wouldn't enjoy the structure enough to make it worthwhile. I occasionally get frustrated after a particularly bad ride, but 95% of the time I'm having way too much fun to think about it. So, you have a choice. Fight like hell to get a bit faster, stay frustrated, or just decide not to worry about it and enjoy your riding.

Hang in there,

-Ray

[ThylacineCycles]

Well, appart from having the right genetics, you have to go hard at some point in your regular rides. If you don't, even if you ride 600kms a week, as soon as someone goes *boom*, you'll be off the back.

With me ;)

[Climb01742]

getting a coach has helped me a lot. i use cycle-smart and like 'em a lot. but the short answer is, to get better, you have to go hard sometimes, go into the pain room. only you can say how much getting better is worth to you to endure some hard training. but a good, well-thought-out training plan can make a huge difference.

[Ray]

getting a coach has helped me a lot. i use cycle-smart and like 'em a lot. but the short answer is, to get better, you have to go hard sometimes, go into the pain room. only you can say how much getting better is worth to you to endure some hard training. but a good, well-thought-out training plan can make a huge difference.
Climb,

Out of curiosity, I know you're coaching this year was geared toward Mt. Washington, but I'm wondering how much increase in your average speeds you saw in your general riding this year. When you say a huge difference, was it 1-2 mph or more? I ask because I've been about 1-1.5 mph faster in the past than I am now and could hang with a slightly faster class of rider, but I can't say I had more fun riding. If it was 3-4 mph faster, that seems like a pretty quantum leap and might change the balance for someone looking to get faster but wondering how much sacrifice they want to put in.

Just wondering,

-Ray

[cs124]

I'll tell ya what works for me...

I've found that there's 2 major components to riding fast, the physical and the mental ...stick with me here... ;)

The physical part is that you need to pedal fast in a big gear ("duh" they all say), and if you think about it, these are two things that are easy to train. Rollers & small ring sprint drills for leg speed, big ring hill repeats & kilo starts for strength...you know the story. Put 'em together and you're on the way.

The mental bit is harder. Every time I come back after a break from riding I have to learn to get comfortable with speed again, cornering, descending and especially riding in a bunch...and after I loosen up I am amazed at how much easier it is to ride fast. Being tense seems waste a lot of energy.

...and like a few of the other posters have said, sometimes you have to just grit your teeth, hang on and suffer.

[dirtdigger88]

forget the coach- ride often and hard!!

after a year of this- then see a coach- you need time and suffering first

Jason

[Spicoli]

I think you stated you do most of your riding solo, and if this is the case groups are always going to be harder. It's usually not the overall speed of a ride but the peaks and valleys(Yo Yoing, whatever you want to call it) that get most people when doing group rides. When soloing you are probably stuck in 3rd or 4th gear for the entire ride, but in a group your going to be 2nd gear to 5th back to 1st and up and down. That is the hard part, recovering in between efforts that only group riding can offer. I see this with many triathletes who dont do intervals. They can average 25mph for a hundred miles but throw a couple of 40mph down to 20mph, back to 30mph and they get cooked very quickly. Its the purpose of intervals to teach your body how to recover quickly in between efforts. I am not saying to get a stopwatch and go out and do intervals now so you can do these group rides but do hang in there, by doing these rides you are giving yourself an informal interval workout. Keep hanging in there and it will get easier and you will get faster and like someone already said, hang as long as you can because it will slow down eventually.
Helpful crap; stay towards the front but not on it, less of a yo yo effect around corners ect. Dont pull if you are cooked, you'll just get dropped when your done. Also the Freil book is a great suggestion and another would be anything by the late Edmund Burke, Kind of a dumbed down version of Friels stuff.

:beer: Jeff

[Fixed]

Another book my fav. Davis Phinney's book. Great book from a cool guy. i.m.h.o.cheers

[Climb01742]

Climb,

Out of curiosity, I know you're coaching this year was geared toward Mt. Washington, but I'm wondering how much increase in your average speeds you saw in your general riding this year. When you say a huge difference, was it 1-2 mph or more? I ask because I've been about 1-1.5 mph faster in the past than I am now and could hang with a slightly faster class of rider, but I can't say I had more fun riding. If it was 3-4 mph faster, that seems like a pretty quantum leap and might change the balance for someone looking to get faster but wondering how much sacrifice they want to put in.

Just wondering,

-Ray

ray, i wish i could quantify the improvement objectively, but i never pay much attention to speed. but i can, subjectively, say that the difference over the past six months has been huge. i can handle workouts now that i never could six months ago. each of us has a different fun/suffering balance. for me, the hard work has been more than worth it. and it has made my riding more fun. i'm committing myself to another year of coaching, aiming to (i hope!) get stronger. for me, the structure of a carefully thought out training plan has been enormously helpful.

[crashjames]

Despite my best efforts, I do not ride as hard solo as I do with a group.

The most improvement I ever experienced was when I was doing a weekly "race" ride around a 5 mile circuit with a group. I never could quite hang with the A's, but was a solid B before too long. I went harder in that ride than anywhere else.

It sucks to get spit off the back on a ride - I've just accepted it as a reality for me, and just try to catch the next group on the road.

[sirroada]

Dude, if you only ride three to four times a week don't try to turn the ride into rocket science. Ride like a stuck pig. Ride as hard as you possibly can. With a day off between rides you will NOT overtrain. Red line your heart rate and watch your average speed soar. I ride 3x a week. I do a 25-35 mile loop. No matter which way the wind is going I ride as flippin hard as I can. How do I know if I rode hard enough? Simple, after the ride I try walking up the stairs in my house. If my legs shake and burn...I rode hard enough. If I get lucky enough to get a 4th ride in during the week...I ride that one as flippin hard as I can too!! DONT MAKE IT SCIENCE UNLESS YOU GET PAID TO RIDE. Ride hard, have fun.