Riding with an amateur racer

[jgspin]

Today was my friends easy zone 2 lower zone 3 ride and I got to ride with him. There is such a big difference in his fitness and mine. We rode 62 miles and for the first 39 or so miles I was able to hang although I was almost at my limit on the climbs. I drafted most of the time and he dropped me on all the descents as he is so aero. He weighs just 10 lbs more but he is like a rocket when he tucks in. What impressed me was that his intensity didn't waver from the beginning. His cadence was just as fast probably 105+ rpm. We got to the Poway grade and it was bonk time for me. I was about 50-60 watts less than the last time I rode with him. It was just survival mode for me at that point.

[azrider]

define "amateur racer".

[jgspin]

He just became a cat 4 this year and took first at Boulevard. He rides with Chris Horner when he is in town. He said he pulled Chris a bit on the Elfin Forest ride just before the Tirreno Adriatico race. Then Chris pulled everybody just before the sprint point, Chris drilled it and one by one dropped just before the church regroup point.

[DRietz]

Just wait until he upgrades to 3's.

These kids that I race with are insane. I'm happy to finish mid-group.

[benitosan1972]

He rides with Chris Horner when he is in town.

THIS.............................................. ....................................... is why you shouldn't feel too bad about getting dropped :help:

[jgspin]

Yeah I think this guy has potential, nice guy too. His first year racing last year he podiumed in all but 2 races and took 2 first places, took 3rd in the Mt Everest challenge. I did a hilly century ride with him. It took me just over 8 hrs. He did it under 6.

[Louis]

All men are not created equal, despite what you might have read elsewhere.

[Keith A]

We've got this kid who is just 18 (Josiah Chalmers) who is the real deal. This past weekend we had the 1st Annual Gran Fondo of Brevard which was 123 miles. There were several pros there (current and past) for the ride/race including Kevin Livingston, Ivan Dominguez and Rahsaan Bahati. With about 4-5 miles to go, Jos dropped the hammer and no one could stay with him and he ended up winning by about 3 minutes...amazing talent he has.

[jgspin]

Wow that's awesome and only 18, dang.

[ultraman6970]

If a guy at 18 is not winning at least to cat 4 because he is coming out of junior, and if at 23 he is not able to ride with the big guys (cat 1) then just have fun because it is too late already to make a name in the sport, specially if as a junior the guy did not get a national title or anything worth to mention.

The main problem is that after 18, if you as a cyclist don't take at least 12 hours of your time to the sport there is no way to make it to pro, family... college... $$$... so it is pretty hard, many good guys just stop around 24 because of lack of time for the sport, and at cat2 and cat1 the guys are 100% into the sport, you cant compete with that no matter how good you are.

Cruel reality of the sport. personally i was pretty good but had to stop for the same reasons i'm giving, for example little Taylor... he was coming out of junior with track world tittles and he got into development teams, too so he was able to catch up with the big guys pretty easily, had the support. But a normal kid that is super good w/o a team backing him up is too hard specially when all the cash comes from daddy.

As for the OP, don't worry man... the only thing you have to do is to train more, but if you don't have time, there you have it... same situation i was describing before...

[Fixed]

nice post sir uman
cheers

next time tell him easy day
when they are really good they know easy too

[Liv2RideHard]

We've got this kid who is just 18 (Josiah Chalmers) who is the real deal. This past weekend we had the 1st Annual Gran Fondo of Brevard which was 123 miles. There were several pros there (current and past) for the ride/race including Kevin Livingston, Ivan Dominguez and Rahsaan Bahati. With about 4-5 miles to go, Jos dropped the hammer and no one could stay with him and he ended up winning by about 3 minutes...amazing talent he has.

I live in East Orlando but work out on the Space Coast. I have heard about this kid (Josiah) from some of the guys that ride out this way. Wish him all the best.

Missed the Gran Fondo this past weekend. Wanted to come over for it but just couldn't make the time. I heard Livingston spoke Friday night (I think) at the Mercedes delaership off NASA Blvd. Were you in attendance? If so, how was it? Cheers!

[Ray]

This is sort of why I'm glad I didn't even get into the sport until my late 30s. I did a couple of mtb races but, other than that, realized VERY quickly where I lived in the cycling food chain. I had and still have a lot of fun, but I've never had any illusions about being able to hang with the fast guys, even when they're not going hard. Even when I was at the peak of my conditioning and had ridden long enough to have smooth technique, was riding a few centuries every year, and was really piling up the miles, when the racing teams would catch me on training rides, I could at BEST hang on for a couple of minutes on relatively level terrain and basically not at ALL if the road was going up. Every now and then I'd catch one of these groups when they were on recovery rides and my brain would fully understand what was going on but my ego generally ignored my brain and would somehow fool itself into feeling pretty bad-ass for about 30 seconds until I gave it a good talking to...

And NOW, lord, I'm happy just to be able to ride 30 not too tough miles every now and then. Speed isn't even a word I understand the meaning of anymore - nor is distance. At my peak, I had just enough speed to understand what it was and push myself a bit and also just enough to know how little I actually had.

-Ray

[oldpotatoe]

He just became a cat 4 this year and took first at Boulevard. He rides with Chris Horner when he is in town. He said he pulled Chris a bit on the Elfin Forest ride just before the Tirreno Adriatico race. Then Chris pulled everybody just before the sprint point, Chris drilled it and one by one dropped just before the church regroup point.

Great to hear about some of the San Diego rides. Left there 20 years ago(lived in RB), belonged to Rancho CC. Elfin Forest, Lake Wolford, Ramona, trip to that little desert town with the bakery(can't remember the town), Scripps parking lot, down the hill, up PCH to San Enofre..great riding. Warmer year round, great cycling tan, lots more O2....

[Keith A]

If a guy at 18 is not winning at least to cat 4 because he is coming out of junior, and if at 23 he is not able to ride with the big guys (cat 1) then just have fun because it is too late already to make a name in the sport, specially if as a junior the guy did not get a national title or anything worth to mention.
...Just a FYI, the kid I mentioned (Jos) is winning Pro 1-2 races. He won the 2nd or 3rd Pro 1-2 race this year after coming up from the juniors.
...
Missed the Gran Fondo this past weekend. Wanted to come over for it but just couldn't make the time. I heard Livingston spoke Friday night (I think) at the Mercedes delaership off NASA Blvd. Were you in attendance? If so, how was it? Cheers!I didn't make any of the events at the Gran Fondo as I had some other things going on. I've heard Kevin Livingston speak before and he's enjoyable to listen to and a nice guy and very approachable.

[ultraman6970]

Keith good for the kid, but everybody knows that at some point he is going to have to decide between being somebody in life and have a life like everybody else or try to be a pro. This is not american football or the NBA where u go to a stadium, talk with a guy that will give you all his support and $, so he could sell you to a team and get zillion of dollars for a year contract.

Cycling doesn't have that at all... if he is kicking ass great for him, hope some development team picks him up, those riders are hard to find. There is a thing of luck too, some awesome guys are never picked up, and others that in reality are pretty bad and are picked up right away... forgot to mention this factor, darn LUCK :)

[Gummee]

I rode FAN-farging-TASTIC down the coast. Too bad I can't climb to save my life. :cry I had a real 'need' to do well at Boulevard a few years back. Rode over to the course and rode the course 'getting ready.' Did that lots.

Race day comes and I'm OTB on the first climb. (up towards the 15)

...and that's all she wrote!

S'why I migrated to and stayed at the track!

M

[benb]

My experience from a few years racing is everyone has a mix of the following:

1. Natural talent
2. Ability to focus on one thing in life
3. A particular set of life circumstances (career, family) which detract or benefit your racing situation.

Anyone who has all 3 of these will most likely go from first race to at least Cat 2 in 12-18 months. They are likely young, single, have a very low key job/career that allows them to work 40 hours or less, have natural talent, and are able to wake up every single day and want to ride and not care about much else, whether it is family, non-cycling friends, or job performance.

I actually think I have/had a fair amount of #1 but am very short on #2 and usually pretty deficient to totally deficient when it comes to #3. I had one year where #3 came into alignment and I rode/trained religiously and I easily rode away from the field in 2 of the 9 races I did that year and often felt the same way on group rides I went on.. it was fun, but immediately after the 2nd win I had this huge feeling of wasting my time putting so much focus into cycling... I have pretty much never had #3 come into alignment again, and I have come to realize that too much cycling takes the fun out of life and I need to be able to pursue my other interests.

A lot of "fast guys" who ride a long time and race for many years at a amateur level may actually have more of #2 and #3 from what I can tell. They're fast, but they're never in the same ballpark as the people who had all 3 and moved on quick.

The fact that pro cycling is not really well regarded in the US or is it very rewarding financially very often has got to really cut down on the # of people who have natural talent and are able to focus on cycling.

[54ny77]

cycling's a cruel mistress. if you ain't winning pro races by 16, eh....it'll be tough going.

natural talent is natural talent.

i could hang pretty well as a junior (west coast), but when someone like steve larsen, who was a year or so older, would seriously drop the hammer, it was adios. oh and then he'd later ride the 1-2/pro race in the afternoon, oftentimes winning or placing in that too.

i've read that george hincapie did much the same when he was a kid on the east coast. he ended up doing pretty good as a pro...

[Liv2RideHard]

It is amazing the level these guys are on. Another planet/galaxy entirely. Take last night for example. We have a standing Wednesday night ride (hammer fest) that began after the time change. We keep it going all summer until we Fall back and lose light. We are a few weeks in mind you. Also realize we are in Florida (Orlando specifically). Yes we ride pretty much year round. Anyway, some of our Pro 1/2 locals always show up as it is a regular ride for them. These guys are strong mind you but I am always there (albeit on the tips quite often). I can't imagine what it is like at the Pro level on a Pro Team when it is pegged.

[Joachim]

When I was riding the U23 classics our team manager used to say "you have to die 3 times and then attack". Usually the 4th attack came from one of the Italians, like Roberto Sgambelluri, who later that year got a silver at the U23 World Champs RR and TT..... and then got busted for EPO when riding for Mercatone Uno. Also, if you were not scooped up by a ProTour team by 23, you can pack your bags and do something else (best decision I ever made).

[Ken Robb]

Imagine how good Josiah may get when he finds some hills for training.

[Ken Robb]

Great to hear about some of the San Diego rides. Left there 20 years ago(lived in RB), belonged to Rancho CC. Elfin Forest, Lake Wolford, Ramona, trip to that little desert town with the bakery(can't remember the town), Scripps parking lot, down the hill, up PCH to San Enofre..great riding. Warmer year round, great cycling tan, lots more O2....

You are probably remembering the ride from Ramona to Santa Ysabel on the main highway or Old Julian Highway. Dudley's Bakery is there where you decide to go up to Julian or over Mesa Grande to the foot of Palomar Mtn.

I do it often--------on my Ducati. I'm old.:banana:

[redir]

Today was my friends easy zone 2 lower zone 3 ride and I got to ride with him. There is such a big difference in his fitness and mine. We rode 62 miles and for the first 39 or so miles I was able to hang although I was almost at my limit on the climbs. I drafted most of the time and he dropped me on all the descents as he is so aero. He weighs just 10 lbs more but he is like a rocket when he tucks in. What impressed me was that his intensity didn't waver from the beginning. His cadence was just as fast probably 105+ rpm. We got to the Poway grade and it was bonk time for me. I was about 50-60 watts less than the last time I rode with him. It was just survival mode for me at that point.

It's all kind of relative. I'm a cat 3 and have won a cat 3 race and placed in others. But I also train with pro's and it's like the same thing you describe. I'm like dying just drafting off the back taking no pulls. And it sounds like the kid you are talking about is the kind of kid who just sweeps right through all the cats in a year or two. We had a guy like that at the local University. Shows up and just starts kicking ass. It was insane. And then he goes on to win the US PRo.. Oh ok that explains it ;)

[Liv2RideHard]

Imagine how good Josiah may get when he finds some hills for training.

Hills in Florida? What are those? We do have some rollers in the sand hills region...north central Florida. We do repeats over the intercoastal bridges. I have resorted to using parking garages. Yes. Parking garage repeats over and over. Up then down. Repeat.

[JLNK]

The fast people have varied training. I would be curious as to what their diet/supplement schedules look like.

[54ny77]

Speaking of amateur talent, what are some names to look out for on the domestic scene these days that show euro-promise?

Seems we have a huge generational gap between the era of Hincapie and today, with only a smattering of talent for long hauls or even 1 day events. There's Tyler Farrar and Taylor Phinney, who are young, but then who? Garmin had a handful of aspiring domestic pros the past few years, but they seemed to have gotten spit out.

[EDS]

Speaking of amateur talent, what are some names to look out for on the domestic scene these days that show euro-promise?

Seems we have a huge generational gap between the era of Hincapie and today, with only a smattering of talent for long hauls or even 1 day events. There's Tyler Farrar and Taylor Phinney, who are young, but then who? Garmin had a handful of aspiring domestic pros the past few years, but they seemed to have gotten spit out.

Tejay Van Garderen on BMC for one.

[54ny77]

Good point, I didn't realize he was U.S., thought he was from somewhere over yonder.