What Do You Consider Being Rich In Today's World

[alancw3]

curious as to what people think in today's world. for me it would be a minimum of $25 million in liquid assets.

[cycle_chic]

I'm pretty poor, so anyone with $1 million or more is a lot.

[echelon_john]

.

[kgreene10]

It's a whole lot less than that.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MeanNetWorth2007.png

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
(This one is about income rather than wealth)

[Fixed]

young ,healthy, educated, debt free
cheers

[AngryScientist]

young ,healthy, educated, debt free
cheers

i'm with fixed all the way on this one. :beer:

[PQJ]

Health, happiness and contentment with what you do, who you are and what you have. (Lots of $$ helps, but it doesn't confer wealth.)

[jpw]

How much would you give to be 25 again?

[alancw3]

i was asking this out of curiosity. years ago i would think that anyone with one million liquid was considered rich but with inflation and today's world i would not think that would be the case. and yes i would consider someone that had health would be better off. anyway let's see what peoples perspective of rich is.

[Louis]

curious as to what people think in today's world. for me it would be a minimum of $25 million in liquid assets.

Is this a joke?

[AngryScientist]

for a serious answer: i would say zero debt, and however much in invested assets to assure 1/4 million per year earned interest. that would be rich enough for me.

[br995]

For me, being rich would mean having 6+ years of comfortable-living-expenses in liquid assets. Which is actually startlingly low when I do the numbers.

In general, I'd say 700K+ in liquid assets is wealthy; 2M+ is rich.

[br995]

How much would you give to be 25 again?
How much would you give me for being 25? :cool:

[jr59]

To have the things that make me happy.
Health and loved ones close by to enjoy.
And peace of mind. Not having to worry about every last cent.

I have no need to have a set sum to be rich!

Happiness comes from within.

[GuyGadois]

young ,healthy, educated, debt free
cheers
What Fixed said. You can have all the money in the world and still be "poor", unhappy and generally miserable.

Now, if the question was, How much money do you need to have FU money (money to leave your job or start a job you would do for no pay) I would say 4-5 million at this point in my life.

GG

[Louis]

Additional comment: having grown up in one of the poorest countries in the world, I can assure you that being rich or having money have nothing to do with happiness or living a fulfilling life.

[54ny77]

in my past life/career, i lived, breathed and chased an answer to that question every day, to much personal detriment. i've seen former colleagues and acquaintances positively ruin their own and their families' lives because of it.

now that i'm older and wiser, i realize that the combined gdp of every country, the wealth of each person, company, etc. is not sufficient to cure the cancer that a dear family member has by next week, which is when chemo begins.

put another way, the term "rich" in dollar terms means ***** to me at the moment.

without good health, you got zilch.

rich is being able to wake up the next day and decide to go for a walk or a bike ride not just because you want to, but because you can.

[67-59]

Totally with Fixed on the truly important things.

As to money - I'd say no debt and about $3-4 million would do it for me.

[Steve in SLO]

What Fixed said. You can have all the money in the world and still be "poor", unhappy and generally miserable.

Now, if the question was, How much money do you need to have FU money (money to leave your job or start a job you would do for no pay) I would say 4-5 million at this lint in my life.

GG
Sell half your bikes and you're there! :beer:
PS: I'm with fixed, too.

[dave thompson]

I'm a real big fan of debt free. Then you can use your income for whatever your needs and wants are, not the banks/loan companys/institutions.

[samsays]

curious as to what people think in today's world. for me it would be a minimum of $25 million in liquid assets.


Being able to do whatever I want, whenever I want (travel, buy, eat, etc)

I guess you have to be single to be rich! :crap:

[br995]

I kind of assumed being "rich" had to mean your assets (which by definition would be substantial) had to grossly outweigh your debts. Otherwise you're not rich, you're just not paying your bills.

[Dan Le foot]

Totally with Fixed on the truly important things.

As to money - I'd say no debt and about $3-4 million would do it for me.
That's where I put it too.
Dan

[eippo1]

Can't put an exact number on it, but I do have to say that about 10 years ago, I was making 2x what I am now, and was about to get a large raise when I quit. Then I went back to school for 7 years and currently owe 110K in loans and a bunch of cc debt when I was scraping by w/o a job.

The difference is that I'm actually happy now and look forward to getting out of bed in the morning.

[junkfood]

The majority of people in this world make around $2000 a year. So if your perspective is a monetary one, then not anywhere close to 25 mil to most.

Seems to me it would be more than what a person has now. That is why people with millions of dollars are still working.

Chase your dreams not the dollars.

Jake

[Dekonick]

The majority of people in this world make around $2000 a year. So if your perspective is a monetary one, then not anywhere close to 25 mil to most.

Seems to me it would be more than what a person has now. That is why people with millions of dollars are still working.

Chase your dreams not the dollars.

Jake

But $1 is not equal in every economy. TO quote Einstein, it is all relative.

[phcollard]

I don't have a lot of money in my savings account but I consider myself rich. I live in a fine country where there's healthcare, education, arts... I'm in OK shape. I have zero debt. I eat everyday, I have a roof and lovely people around me.

I mean... look down the streets. Starving and homeless people are not hard to find.

[velotel]

Rich financially doesn't exist. They're always moving the goalposts, to use an old guideline, a dumb one but gets the point across. They move 'em just to limit who can say yes; wouldn't want just anyone elbowing into the canape line.

Otherwise rich is when you feel rich and maybe even know you're rich. In what, I can't hazard a guess. We're all different. Also changes with the years. Even with the moment. One moment I'm tap dancing with the stars. Another I'm slogging with the slugs.

And one day we're dead. That is when we're truly rich. And no, I'm not talking god or religion. Cliches surrounding us like bars in a cell. I died once. Most beautiful moment of my life. Long ago. Never forgot. Meanwhile still living. Sometimes tap dancing with the stars; sometimes slogging with the slugs.

Am I rich? Ask my banker; he/she will look at you like you're nuts. With reason of course. Ask me; depends on when you ask. In the middle of multiple ks at sustained double digit grades, guaranteed I'm living under a bridge without even a scrap of cardboard to shelter my bones. At the top, yea, I'm so rich you better have one seriously long extension on your mic if you want to ask me how I'm feeling. I can tell you already they don't make extensions that long. You want to ask, do it yourself. You'll know then asking doesn't exist.

Silly question in some respects. Overwhelmingly, even scarily serious in a lot of others. People self-destructing, destroying this planet, all just to answer that question. The plains indians used to have an amazing, to us, habit. One of them would be strikingly efficient at hunting. He's amass a fortune, to use our system of measure, of wealth, furs, food, arrows, etc. Then one day he'd put it all outside his teepee for any and all to serve themselves. Everything. Given away. Then he'd start all over. Until the next time.

Rich? Or poor? Ask that question and listen closely. The sound you just heard, the one you didn't quite recognize, or maybe you did but you prefer not to, that sound was the cell door slamming closed. And Goldman Sachs and all those others laughing with glee. Just bagged another one.

Rich? Die and you'll know. Not because some silly religion or some fabricated god is going to tell you. You'll know because you'll know. And the knowing will come way too late.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

This is depressing.... I am a poor man, in monetary and nonmonetary terms.

[phcollard]

...I died once. Most beautiful moment of my life.

That's interesting. Can you explain??

[akelman]

This is depressing.... I am a poor man, in monetary and nonmonetary terms.

Take heart: you have nice bikes and a good reputation. I think you're doing a-okay.

[54ny77]

You just need more cowbell.

This is depressing.... I am a poor man, in monetary and nonmonetary terms.

[EDS]

From a purely financial perspective I would want to own a home, be debt free and have $3+ million in liquid assets.

[54ny77]

I have no idea what you said there but something tells me you'd be fun to go drinking with. :beer:

Rich financially doesn't exist. They're always moving the goalposts, to use an old guideline, a dumb one but gets the point across. They move 'em just to limit who can say yes; wouldn't want just anyone elbowing into the canape line.

Otherwise rich is when you feel rich and maybe even know you're rich. In what, I can't hazard a guess. We're all different. Also changes with the years. Even with the moment. One moment I'm tap dancing with the stars. Another I'm slogging with the slugs.

And one day we're dead. That is when we're truly rich. And no, I'm not talking god or religion. Cliches surrounding us like bars in a cell. I died once. Most beautiful moment of my life. Long ago. Never forgot. Meanwhile still living. Sometimes tap dancing with the stars; sometimes slogging with the slugs.

Am I rich? Ask my banker; he/she will look at you like you're nuts. With reason of course. Ask me; depends on when you ask. In the middle of multiple ks at sustained double digit grades, guaranteed I'm living under a bridge without even a scrap of cardboard to shelter my bones. At the top, yea, I'm so rich you better have one seriously long extension on your mic if you want to ask me how I'm feeling. I can tell you already they don't make extensions that long. You want to ask, do it yourself. You'll know then asking doesn't exist.

Silly question in some respects. Overwhelmingly, even scarily serious in a lot of others. People self-destructing, destroying this planet, all just to answer that question. The plains indians used to have an amazing, to us, habit. One of them would be strikingly efficient at hunting. He's amass a fortune, to use our system of measure, of wealth, furs, food, arrows, etc. Then one day he'd put it all outside his teepee for any and all to serve themselves. Everything. Given away. Then he'd start all over. Until the next time.

Rich? Or poor? Ask that question and listen closely. The sound you just heard, the one you didn't quite recognize, or maybe you did but you prefer not to, that sound was the cell door slamming closed. And Goldman Sachs and all those others laughing with glee. Just bagged another one.

Rich? Die and you'll know. Not because some silly religion or some fabricated god is going to tell you. You'll know because you'll know. And the knowing will come way too late.

[jds108]

For me, I'd be rich if I had enough money to not have to work. So a roof over my head and at least 50k/yr. That's somewhere in the 1 million ballpark.

[Fixed]

i remind myself of this saying
" he was a modest man with much to be modest about "

cheers

[NRRider]

curious as to what people think in today's world. for me it would be a minimum of $25 million in liquid assets.
You've been living in Naples for too long.

[sevencyclist]

Rich is being able to get the bike I want without holding back, and afford to ride it whenever I feel like it.

[akelman]

"Wants may be satisfied either by producing much or desiring little"

Marshall Sahlins

"Have you ever just looked at your hand? No, I mean really looked at it?"

akelman

[4Rings6Stars]

To me rich (in a financial sense) is no debt, enough money to eat well, live in a comfortable house, have a few (dozen) nice bikes and the time to ride them and the ability to travel.

Without friends, family and health it all means nothing.

$25 million? Hah!

[Tony T]

>What Do You Consider Being Rich In Today's World

1 carbon, 1 Ti and 1 Steel.

[Tony T]

i was asking this out of curiosity. years ago i would think that anyone with one million liquid was considered rich but with inflation and today's world i would not think that would be the case. and yes i would consider someone that had health would be better off. anyway let's see what peoples perspective of rich is.

I think a factor of 10 is a good rule of thumb, so if someone is a "Milliionaire" today, he is comparable to someone with $100k in 1970.

[tiretrax]

Without friends, family and health it all means nothing.



This is all - no matter how much money you have, you're poor without good health. I had an uncle who became very wealthy in real estate. He contracted ALS and suffered for two years. All the money was worthless as he wasted away. I've seen it over and over again. So, there can be a financial aspect, but it must be coupled with good health.

[yakstone]

I would agree that having $25 mil would be rich, but for me I don't need that much and would agree with the "no debt, home, 3 mil in liquid assets and good health".

[dustyrider]

Interesting topic, it's doubtful the OP thought so many important life's lessons would come from such a simple question.

I spent my teenage years visiting my grandparents in nursing homes throughout the various stages of their soon to be death. What I took from this time, then was; You come into this world in a fetal position requiring someone else to clean you, and feed you, in order to survive and thrive, and if you're "lucky", after many years, you'll leave the world in the exact same way.

What I've learned over the past few years is that there isn't anything better then this moment we're living in right now, the journey far exceeds the destination.

Whether you consider yourself rich or soon to be, hopefully you all are living in the moment.

"And you spend your whole life looking for the adult that you are
then you spend the rest of your life looking for, looking for the child that you were"
modest mouse

[AngryScientist]

What I've learned over the past few years is that there isn't anything better then this moment we're living in right now, the journey far exceeds the destination.



well said, well said :beer:

[Louis]

What I've learned over the past few years is that there isn't anything better then this moment we're living in right now, the journey far exceeds the destination.

Viktor Frankl would be proud.

[CaliFly]

young ,healthy, educated, debt free
cheers

Well done Fixed. Debt-free and healthy is a given. Being educated brings so much more to the table...perspective and flexibility to name a couple.

[SPOKE]

What Fixed said. You can have all the money in the world and still be "poor", unhappy and generally miserable.

Now, if the question was, How much money do you need to have FU money (money to leave your job or start a job you would do for no pay) I would say 4-5 million at this point in my life.

GG

I like this answer!

[Rueda Tropical]

Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day.

We're all loaded. Indoor plumbing, clean water, more food and beer then we need and custom bicycles. Woohoo!

I figure every day above ground is a good day. You never now what day will be your last. It might be a lot sooner then you think, don't waste your time obsessing over what you don't have.

[Grant McLean]

Being rich is wanting what you already have.

-g

[G-Reg]

... for me it would be a minimum of $25 million in liquid assets.


you are in for a life full of disappointments. Even if you reach every single goal you ever set.

[Louis]

The bottom line (IMO) is that no matter how much ya got, a bit more might make you just a bit more comfortable. Once you realize that that attitude would keep you in a never ending rat race, it's a lot easier to be content with what makes you happy today.

[martinrjensen]

all the money I have right now is what I would give, because I could make it all back again and more. Can I go baqck with the knowledge I have now? I'm not talking about stock tips or anything like that.How much would you give to be 25 again?

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Thanks Ari. And Jim, despite what Will Ferrell may say, "Don't Fear the Reaper" sounds much better without cowbell.

I agree completely with what others say above that you are rich if you have happiness, health, and family. Though I have a wonderful family (for which I am grateful), I work primarily for a client I completely despise and have had some minor health issues that have been exascerbated by the crummy job and the long hours I've had to put in since the mid January. Though the job pays me well, it is not enough to make me rich by anyone's standards around here.

And because I have been working long hours and had some minor health issues, I haven't had time to ride my bikes. Last time I rode was almost two weeks ago, and I've probably ridden my bike 10 times this year. So yes, in a few senses, I feel poor.

The good news is that I will be quitting work sometime soon and going back to life as a solo litigator. Won't have as much money, but I think I will be happier. And I do miss taking a nice mid-afternoon ride whenever I feel like it. It will be nice to get back to that.

[alancw3]

thanks everyone for your thoughts on the subject. i agree with much of the philosophical that has been said about health, family and friends. on the financial side i was wondering what the minimum amount someone would need in today's world to be completely free of worrying about money. perhaps alot would have to do with one's age. if younger and still raising a family you would think that figure would be more than a retired person whose biggest expenses in the future might relate to health care. i remember as a child watching a show called "the millionaire" which got me thinking and then you read about all the billionaires out there in today's world. i wasn't relating rich to hapiness though as i don't necessarily think the two are synonymous. rather what the figure would be based on today's frn to have absolutely no thought about what something costs and if it can be afforded. hey, i wish i were even close to that!
'

[oldpotatoe]

curious as to what people think in today's world. for me it would be a minimum of $25 million in liquid assets.

Interesting thread, particularly those that 'just want happiness, health, good family'....mee too, hae that pretty much, would still like couple of $million, who wouldn't.

[Joachim]

Money doesn't make you happy, but life can be really bad if you don't have any. I guess my take is that good health, family etc can only be consider "riches" once you have enough money to put food on the table, pay the medical bills, have a roof over your head and so forth.

[Frankwurst]

I've been married to the same woman for 32 years. Have a small house on a lake that is almost paid for. Raised two children and put them through college. They both like to come home and hang out with Mom and Dad. We're all healthy and have good jobs. Live where I want to. Ride what I want to. Eat and drink what I want to and pretty much do what I want to. If there is more to it than that, I didn't get the memo. :beer:

[phcollard]

Interesting thread, particularly those that 'just want happiness, health, good family'....mee too, hae that pretty much, would still like couple of $million, who wouldn't.

Sure. I could start my dream bike shop then :beer:

[Bob Loblaw]

Success does not equal wealth, and wealth does not equal success. If you're talking strictly numbers, I am with GG on the FU concept. About $4 mill would mean my family could live carefully for the rest of our lives with zero debt and do what we want with our time.

If you're talking about living a successful life, that is 100% different than building a business empire and a pile of money. All the money in the world didn't do the Hiltons a bit of good.

BL

I've been married to the same woman for 32 years. Have a small house on a lake that is almost paid for. Raised two children and put them through college. They both like to come home and hang out with Mom and Dad. We're all healthy and have good jobs. Live where I want to. Ride what I want to. Eat and drink what I want to and pretty much do what I want to. If there is more to it than that, I didn't get the memo. :beer:

[alancw3]

Sure. I could start my dream bike shop then :beer:

would that be like the old story of how to make a small fortune in the options market? i.e. start out with a large fortune!

[vav]

To have the things that make me happy.
Health and loved ones close by to enjoy.
And peace of mind. Not having to worry about every last cent.

I have no need to have a set sum to be rich!

Happiness comes from within.


+ a couple of nice bikes. Seriously now, you couldn't have said it better. I don't know why we always look at money and wealth as the ticket to being rich and happy. Usually far from the truth

[alancw3]

You've been living in Naples for too long.

you have no idea how much naples has changed in the last twenty five years. when i first moved there i thought that i had found paradise and that pretty much lasted until about 1995 when the large nationwide developers came in and started the "fort lauderdalizing" of naples. i have been searching other areas but it is not easy to think about leaving an area that you have lived in for so long.

[fiamme red]

"So true is it, what I then said, that the Fraction of Life can be increased in value not so much by increasing your Numerator as by lessening your Denominator. Nay, unless my Algebra deceive me, Unity itself divided by Zero will give Infinity. Make thy claim of wages a zero, then; thou hast the world under thy feet. Well did the Wisest of our time write: 'It is only with Renunciation (Entsagen) that Life, properly speaking, can be said to begin.' "
--Thomas Carlyle, Sartor Resartus

[Ahneida Ride]

one looses about 6% per year in purchasing power in private central bank fed reserve notes.

So .... you need to make 10% (figure in taxes) just to stay even.

[jmoore]

Sure. I could start my dream bike shop then :beer:

I'd like 2000 acres in big whitetail country, no debt and a couple million in the bank. That would be fu $ to me.


Owning a shop would be too much like work. I'd like to have a really nice LBS near by that I could hang out in and annoy the staff in before/after my rides.

[benb]

My thought is if you're rich you are stable for retirement and can self insure yourself against your future medical costs.

I don't know what dollar figure I would put against that, but it would have to be quite, high perhaps liquid assets in the $10M+ range and climbing every year?

I say this because while I don't think you need material goods to be happy you can't really be that happy if health issues are tearing your family apart. At least in the US to truly be carefree I would think you would need the money to know you can make it if a loved one gets sick and the insurance decides you should have to pay most of the expenses yourself.

That figure could of course be much lower in other countries where health care is done in a different way.

My wife and I do fine, we are able to save a ton, but we frequently see even minor medical stuff happen where we realize we'd be royally screwed if we were bringing in an "average" income and/or didn't have excellent health coverage.. We're in our 30s so we don't really have much in the way of health problems.. but it is easy to imagine what can happen when something catastrophic happens and the medications cost $>100 per day and the insurance decides that's not really their problem.

[1centaur]

Philosophy aside, the connotation of "rich" is "doesn't have to worry about money," which means does not have to work to afford enough lifestyle and necessities that their unaffordable want becomes a significant detractor to a normal person's happiness (i.e., a 5th Ferrari is not required in this description).

That amount varies with age, as noted. At 85 and single, $2MM is plenty; at 35 with a family and 3 kids to put through college for which you will receive no aid and you want them to have great choices, followed by a retirement in which inflation and market bubbles and health care may eat away at principal for 30 years, I think well north of $10MM is the ballpark. BTW, debt free is not part of that equation at all; low debt that can easily be covered is just fine for a rich person.

All this assumes someone in the US who likes typical things: flat screens, vacations, meals out; a new car every few years, etc. Rich in the Congo would be something else.

Again ignoring philosophy and sticking to the US, I think most survey respondents would have no clue what rich is because they don't understand the arithmetic of time, the optionality of bad events or inflation well enough to estimate - they would estimate too low. Haven't surveys shown the definition of rich to be someone making 10% more than the person asked? Certainly upper-middle-class families ($300k incomes, let's say) are nowhere close to rich by the standards I defined. On the other hand, US welfare recipients might be rich on a global distribution curve - many of them have flat screens and cell phones and eat a lot more calories than they need to survive.

[William]

The Parable of the Mexican Fisherman



A boat docked in a tiny Mexican village. An American tourist complimented the Mexican fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them.

"Not very long," answered the Mexican.

"But then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the
American.

The Mexican explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his
needs and those of his family.

The American asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

"I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, have a few drinks, play the guitar, and sing a few songs ... I have a full life."

The American interrupted, "I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help
you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat.

"And after that?" asked the Mexican.

With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second
one and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers. Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can then negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little village and move to Mexico City, Los Angeles, or even New York City! From there you can direct your huge new enterprise."

"How long would that take?" asked the Mexican.

"Twenty, perhaps 25 years," replied the American.

"And after that?" the Mexican asked.

"Afterwards? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the American, laughing. "When your business gets really big, you can start selling stocks and make millions!"

"Millions? Really? And after that?"

"After that you'll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast, sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take a siesta with your wife and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends."



***

Know where you're going in life … you may already be there.

[dave thompson]

Thanks for the refresh on that William. Chasing money may be one man's idea of fun, mine is enjoying, and appreciating, what I have.

[Black Dog]

Ask Steve Jobs about having lots of money. It is all worthless without the real things of value. Health, love, family, fun, friends, wonder, awe...

Being rich is a solution to being poor but not a solution to being happy. Most rich people, once they have met their material needs, do not care about how much absolute wealth they have, they care more about their relative wealth. In other words, they care about how rich they are relative to other rich folks. It is a status game and there is always someone richer; someone to chase and pass. Ask yourself how many people would stop growing thier money after they made their "25 million"? It is not easy for people to say "I have enough"; there is always a rationalization, no matter how ridiculous, for 'needing' more.

[Ray]

The philosophical answer takes me back to something I read - a conversation between two reasonably well off people who were at a party mostly populated by Mitt Romney type rich folks - REALLY rich folks. They ran into each other there and started talking about wealth and wondering what they were doing surrounded by all of these super-rich. When one asked the other how he defined being wealthy, the reply was, "I already am - I probably don't have 1% of the assets of many of these people, but I have something that most of them will never have - I have enough".

Which is kind of how I feel. I have what would have been a LOT of money 30-40 years ago. Today, its not rich, but its enough. I'm retired in my early 50s and my wife will retire whenever she stops loving her job. We'll be OK as long as we don't have a total economic collapse, in which case I'd say those among us with the most money will be the worst off. The key is we live a pretty moderate middle class type of existence with a very low cost of living now that we are empty-nesters. We own our place, we own our cars, we carry no debt. If we wanted to live in a fancy place, drive fancy cars, and wear fancy clothes, we don't have nearly enough. As it is, we occasionally eat a pretty fancy meal, but not often. As long as we maintain a modest lifestyle and our investments continue to work as they have, we'll be fine.

I just looked it up. By assets, we're in the top 10% of Americans, but definitely the lower part of that top 10%. People in the top 5% have orders of magnitude more assets than we do and those in the top 1% have assets I don't even understand. In terms of income, we just sneak into the top 20%, some years we probably don't quite make it. But our expenses are well below that level, so we feel like we're doing really well. And we're leaving a good bit of income potential untouched because we don't need it and hopefully it'll add up to more later, either if we need it or to leave to our kids in what promises to be a more difficult world.

So, by the standards of Americans, we're doing really well, but not overwhelmingly so. By the standards of the global community, we're filthy rich, unbelievably rich, way better off than I feel like we have any right to be based on how hard I've worked in my life vs how hard most people all over the world have to work to scratch out an existence. No, I don't think its fair and yes I'd vote to raise my own taxes. But the bottom line is, as long as I'm happy driving a Honda Fit and living in a $300,000 dwelling, I'm doing fine - doing GREAT. If I suddenly develop Mercedes and country estate tastes, we're in BIG trouble. Or we're in debt. And I HATE debt. But I can afford pretty nice cameras and still have a couple of nice bikes that I ride from time to time... And that, for me, is enough.

-Ray

[alancw3]

The philosophical answer takes me back to something I read - a conversation between two reasonably well off people who were at a party mostly populated by Mitt Romney type rich folks - REALLY rich folks. They ran into each other there and started talking about wealth and wondering what they were doing surrounded by all of these super-rich. When one asked the other how he defined being wealthy, the reply was, "I already am - I probably don't have 1% of the assets of many of these people, but I have something that most of them will never have - I have enough".

Which is kind of how I feel. I have what would have been a LOT of money 30-40 years ago. Today, its not rich, but its enough. I'm retired in my early 50s and my wife will retire whenever she stops loving her job. We'll be OK as long as we don't have a total economic collapse, in which case I'd say those among us with the most money will be the worst off. The key is we live a pretty moderate middle class type of existence with a very low cost of living now that we are empty-nesters. We own our place, we own our cars, we carry no debt. If we wanted to live in a fancy place, drive fancy cars, and wear fancy clothes, we don't have nearly enough. As it is, we occasionally eat a pretty fancy meal, but not often. As long as we maintain a modest lifestyle and our investments continue to work as they have, we'll be fine.

I just looked it up. By assets, we're in the top 10% of Americans, but definitely the lower part of that top 10%. People in the top 5% have orders of magnitude more assets than we do and those in the top 1% have assets I don't even understand. In terms of income, we just sneak into the top 20%, some years we probably don't quite make it. But our expenses are well below that level, so we feel like we're doing really well. And we're leaving a good bit of income potential untouched because we don't need it and hopefully it'll add up to more later, either if we need it or to leave to our kids in what promises to be a more difficult world.

So, by the standards of Americans, we're doing really well, but not overwhelmingly so. By the standards of the global community, we're filthy rich, unbelievably rich, way better off than I feel like we have any right to be based on how hard I've worked in my life vs how hard most people all over the world have to work to scratch out an existence. No, I don't think its fair and yes I'd vote to raise my own taxes. But the bottom line is, as long as I'm happy driving a Honda Fit and living in a $300,000 dwelling, I'm doing fine - doing GREAT. If I suddenly develop Mercedes and country estate tastes, we're in BIG trouble. Or we're in debt. And I HATE debt. But I can afford pretty nice cameras and still have a couple of nice bikes that I ride from time to time... And that, for me, is enough.

-Ray

wow that is exactly where i am! it's like a delicate balance. this is kind of what i was thinking when i started this thread and asked the question..

[Ray]

wow that is exactly where i am! it's like a delicate balance. this is kind of what i was thinking when i started this thread and asked the question..

Really, how so? If you think it takes $25 million to be rich, our perspectives, hopes, and expectations are wildly different. Or was that tongue in cheek? I'm quite content with less than a tenth of that. And a lot of people would think they'd died and gone to heaven for a single percent of that. Maybe its just the concept of "enough" that we share?

-Ray

[CoKeithRecord]

Wealth is a mindset and it doesn't matter how much you have, it's what you appreciate. Here is a secret to monetary wealth that has worked for me - give away 10% of any income you receive. It creates a mindset of wealth meaning no matter how much or how little you have, you still have some to give away.

[bikerboy337]

so... in plain terms of money... (i know everyone has gone on about how money doesn't mak you rick, and i agree... )

but... if i had 2-2.5 million I could live my current lifestyle for the rest of my life on the interst... so, i'd consider that rich...

its funny, if you asked me after graduating college how much money I'd want to be making at 35, i'm above that, but in no way do i feel rich... i mean, daycare costs more than a lot of mortgages... i always say that I could have a few Porsche's and a vacation home if we didn't have daycare expenses... waiting anxiously for public school!

[1centaur]

This is too long and detailed for most to bother, but a few of you will enjoy it (I found it fascinating and it rings true on the numbers, even if the asides are not all on target). The upshot is that it's difficult not to worry about your economic future unless you are beyond the 99th percentile of wealth in the US. I presume even reasonable people not given detailed information would think the top 5% in net worth are rich and thus deserve more taxation, possibly including a wealth tax. The disconnect between the image of Palm Beach lounging and 60-year- olds who have worked and saved their entire lives to retire with $2 million in net worth is quite stark and largely unappreciated except by those in the cross hairs. In fact, a growing factor in the definition of rich has to be the ability to afford significant additional government extraction of savings from one's accounts based on that very disconnect.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html

[Germany_chris]

I have enough money..

I have a job I wouldn't quit even if I had enough money too..

My wife and daughter think I'm pretty OK even if I don't..

life is not bad, I surely wouldn't trade it for someone else's..

[RacerJRP]

young ,healthy, educated, debt free
cheers

Got the first two down! Step 3 will happen in 13 months. Step 4 hopefully not more than 24 months out.

:)

[topher]

A fulfilling career, happy marriage, minimal debt, a parlee, and some time to ride it.

[NRRider]

Being rich requires:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf7uJDhVZIE

[Ray]

This is too long and detailed for most to bother, but a few of you will enjoy it (I found it fascinating and it rings true on the numbers, even if the asides are not all on target). The upshot is that it's difficult not to worry about your economic future unless you are beyond the 99th percentile of wealth in the US. I presume even reasonable people not given detailed information would think the top 5% in net worth are rich and thus deserve more taxation, possibly including a wealth tax. The disconnect between the image of Palm Beach lounging and 60-year- olds who have worked and saved their entire lives to retire with $2 million in net worth is quite stark and largely unappreciated except by those in the cross hairs. In fact, a growing factor in the definition of rich has to be the ability to afford significant additional government extraction of savings from one's accounts based on that very disconnect.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html
Interesting, but a pretty massive / HUGE discrepancy highlighted in that first footnote. There's agreement that the top one percent in INCOME is in the $350-400K level. But one method suggests that the top one percent cutoff for ASSETS is about $1.5 million and the other has it closer to $8.5 million! I fully agree that those retiring with $1.5 million will continue to have to budget and watch their money because the income generated is probably a good deal less than they made pre-retirement. So by that standard, the lower 1/2 of the top 1% do not feel particularly wealthy (although they clearly have a huge jump on most retirees). But if the real number is closer to that $8 million plus figure, that makes a huge difference - those folks should be able to live not just comfortably but luxuriously for the rest of their lives. So this definitional discrepancy seems rather important to understanding the reality of the situation.

-Ray

[alancw3]

thanks again to all that have shared their thoughts. after reading all and having agreed with the philosophical answers i also still feel that my original thought of about $25 million to be truly free of financial worry to be a valid number. in my mind at my age someone with 2.5 million dollars is far from rich albeit probably better off than a great many people but again that was not my original supposition with this thread. anyway thanks for all of the input.

[djg]

How much would you give to be 25 again?

So much for revealed preference.

Lots or nothing? Would I like to be that lean, creak-free, and sporting a full head of hair again? Would I like a bonus of an extra 25 years of life in pretty good health? You bet? Would I like to lose the people I have in my life? Have my children disappear and put at risk the question whether they'd be born, and grow to their current ages as the people they are? Eff no. You couldn't pay me enough to make that choice. Nobody could.

For the OP, what does the original question mean? Is this a survey of the linguistic inclinations of the folks on the board? Varied ages, backgrounds, etc., but probably biased to a US population, and maybe biased toward the top half (third? quarter?) of the US income distribution? When are most of these people inclined to say "rich"?

For me, it's likely pretty context-dependent (like so much in ordinary language). I might say it about about myself, or -- in a very different way -- about a college classmate who, according to the WSJ, is building, or at least planning to build, a 40k-plus square foot house in LA. If I were saying it about myself, it would not be in the sense of "fabulously wealthy," duplex in Manhattan plus a mansion in Aspen, plus a villa in Tuscany (because we're in good financial shape, and don't really want for anything, but we're just not that kinda lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous rich--not even close). Heck, I might say it about a cake or, in a different sense, about a 100-dollar bottle of scotch (as in, "a little rich for my blood," even though I have a hundred bucks and could spend it on a given bottle of scotch without putting my future or my family's well-being at risk).

Is "rich" OMG rich? The now heavily referenced top 1%?

Some post about an "FU" number -- perfectly good alternative sense of the term, but just one, and maybe something that varies with age and not just economic expectations. I'm 51, and I've got 3 kids (all below college-age). The who-cares-check-makes-no-difference number is different for me now that it was at 40; and likely will be different when I'm 60 (you know, if you're still asking and I'm in a position to answer). For me, the check is still of interest, and not just for giggles. In fact, I'm not sure what I'd consider such an FU number now, so maybe this is just a really long, nearly discursive way of saying "I dunno."

[54ny77]

for some, the treadmill doesn't stop. it's all relative, you might say.

death or jail will tend to stop it though. :bike:

thanks again to all that have shared their thoughts. after reading all and having agreed with the philosophical answers i also still feel that my original thought of about $25 million to be truly free of financial worry to be a valid number. in my mind at my age someone with 2.5 million dollars is far from rich albeit probably better off than a great many people but again that was not my original supposition with this thread. anyway thanks for all of the input.

[Louis]

I might say it about about myself, or -- in a very different way -- about a college classmate who, according to the WSJ, is building, or at least planning to build, a 40k-plus square foot house in LA.

Dan, FYI, we've since tweaked the design a bit and added a work-out room and a library for the help, so we're now up to 42k ft^2.

Louis

PS Did you see that story in the NYT about the nannies that make $180k a year? We're so lucky with Estelle.

[cnighbor1]

Being rich is
1. to enjoy a nice sunny day
2. To enjoy a rainy day
3. to enjoy the moment
4. And for cyclists enjoying the hum of your tires singing has they roll over pavement. Fast
5. just to sit and enjoy nature
6. Way down the list ,say 1,000,000 is being rich
Charles Nighbor

[sg8357]

When you can save 50% of income, and still have toy money, you are comfortably well off.

Or as Cappy said, it is not how much you make, it is how much you
have left over at the end of the month.

[djg]

Dan, FYI, we've since tweaked the design a bit and added a work-out room and a library for the help, so we're now up to 42k ft^2.

Louis

PS Did you see that story in the NYT about the nannies that make $180k a year? We're so lucky with Estelle.

Louis, as long as it's tasteful.

180k for a nanny? I'll take 7.

Missed the NYT story. I reckon it's 16 hours a day and a willingness to take any amount of crap, but that's still a heck of a salary for the right person, even in NY.

[Rueda Tropical]

in my mind at my age someone with 2.5 million dollars is far from rich albeit probably better off than a great many people but again that was not my original supposition with this thread. anyway thanks for all of the input.

That's all up to how and where you choose to live. It is all relative.

If you just need a car, 15k might do it. If you need a Ferrari, you will require a lot more.