Beware: cheap Ti hardware and 3T stems

[veloduffer]

Just a word of caution: I was putting on a new 3T ARX Team stem and the heads on two ti bolts snapped off well before the torque wrench reached 5nm. I'm glad that didn't occur while riding. I replaced those ti parts with steel ones from a 3T ARX Pro stem.

I did a quick Google search and see that it has happened to others with 3T stems - cheap ti hardware. Does anyone have a good source for quality ti bolts?

[oldpotatoe]

Just a word of caution: I was putting on a new 3T ARX Team stem and the heads on two ti bolts snapped off well before the torque wrench reached 5nm. I'm glad that didn't occur while riding. I replaced those ti parts with steel ones from a 3T ARX Pro stem.

I did a quick Google search and see that it has happened to others with 3T stems - cheap ti hardware. Does anyone have a good source for quality ti bolts?

Stick with the steel bolts, altho 'heavier' than ti bolts, not 'heavy' at all. Breaking some stem bolts whilst riding always hurts.

[AngryScientist]

Just a word of caution: I was putting on a new 3T ARX Team stem and the heads on two ti bolts snapped off well before the torque wrench reached 5nm. I'm glad that didn't occur while riding. I replaced those ti parts with steel ones from a 3T ARX Pro stem.

I did a quick Google search and see that it has happened to others with 3T stems - cheap ti hardware. Does anyone have a good source for quality ti bolts?

John - I've systematically replaced almost all my cockpit hardware with stainless steel stuff over the years, for rust concerns. Readily available at lowes, pep boys or other hardware stores. Forget boutique Ti hardware IMO, lots of cost and searching to save very, very little weight. Stainless hardware is where it's at, doesnt rust, and is strong.

[Keith A]

The other issue I've had with Ti bolts/nuts is that the material is so hard that when tightening them it seems like they hit a hard stop point, rather than just getting more difficult to tighten like steel does. I've also had trouble with some of these bolts/nuts loosening up while in use and so I prefer SS over Ti too.

[veloduffer]

John - I've systematically replaced almost all my cockpit hardware with stainless steel stuff over the years, for rust concerns. Readily available at lowes, pep boys or other hardware stores. Forget boutique Ti hardware IMO, lots of cost and searching to save very, very little weight. Stainless hardware is where it's at, doesnt rust, and is strong.

thanks, I didn't think of stainless. Now I've got a weekend project!

[veloduffer]

Stick with the steel bolts, altho 'heavier' than ti bolts, not 'heavy' at all. Breaking some stem bolts whilst riding always hurts.

I didn't know they were ti, as I bought the stem for the color, or lack thereof since this is a "ghosted" stem. When they snapped, I checked the package listing. I usually err on the side of reliability/durability and curb my weight weenie-ness. The ease with which the heads came off scared the cr#p out of me. :eek:

[kayten]

Just a word of caution: I was putting on a new 3T ARX Team stem and the heads on two ti bolts snapped off well before the torque wrench reached 5nm.

Happened to me too...

[zap]

The other issue I've had with Ti bolts/nuts is that the material is so hard that when tightening them it seems like they hit a hard stop point, rather than just getting more difficult to tighten like steel does. I've also had trouble with some of these bolts/nuts loosening up while in use and so I prefer SS over Ti too.

Sounds like galling. Are you using paste like ti prep?

[veloduffer]

Sounds like galling. Are you using paste like ti prep?

The bits have anti-seize/ti prep already on them. IMHO, it is either a case of cheap parts and/or wrong material for the application (bad engineering).

[AngryScientist]

John, are you going to e-mail 3T about this? I would.

I'm in the engineering industry, and there have been various times in recent history where counterfeit hardware sales were running rampant. poorly manufactured stuff being sold as QC controlled items. was a big deal for me a few years back, scary stuff. maybe 3T is having a supply problem, and they should be made aware...

[zap]

The bits have anti-seize/ti prep already on them. IMHO, it is either a case of cheap parts and/or wrong material for the application (bad engineering).

My post was specific to Keith's.

I have 2 3T arx stems on our travel tandem and plan on swapping the ti bolts for steel.

I never had a problem with ti bolts (or aluminum bolts) but long term I suspect that Ti does not hold up well in shear applications.

[Keith A]

Sounds like galling. Are you using paste like ti prep?I didn't use this at the time I was having issues with the Ti bits. The biggest issue was with a SRP Ti bolt kit for Dura-Ace 7403 brake calipers. I just couldn't get these to adjust properly and finally gave up and put the original hardware back and there were no problems. This was a while back and I was unaware of Ti prep paste at that time, but I did use some regular grease (most likely Phil's green stuff) and IIRC, it didn't help much.

[chris7ed]

My understanding is that socket head cap screws are grade 8 or better. Stainless cannot be hardened so it cannot reach that strength. They are roughly equivalent to a grade 2.

[benitosan1972]

I have Pro & Team stems.
There's no difference to me on the weight.
If you're concerned with difference between weight of steel vs Ti bolts,
well then you should probably ride more and drink less beer/eat fewer doughnuts? ;)

[veloduffer]

My understanding is that socket head cap screws are grade 8 or better. Stainless cannot be hardened so it cannot reach that strength. They are roughly equivalent to a grade 2.

Thanks, good to know.

[jemoryl]

FWIW, 3T had failure problems (maybe a recall) with the Ti hardware they supplied with some of the Zepp stems from several years back. IIRC, the screws were speced too short so the number of threads holding on the front plate was inadequate. This was when 3T stuff was still made in Italy.