SRAM front shifting, not so good...

[floxy1]

I really like my Rival groupo but the front shifting leaves a lot to be desired. Can't get it into the outside ring unless I'm in the lower half of the cassette and even then it's not always smooth. I've done the 2-3 mm above the outside ring and triple checked the cage is parallel to the rings. Cable tension is so tight I'm afraid the cable is going to snap. High and low limits seem good (there's a slight bit of rub in big/big and small/small combos. I'm out of ideas. Is there a secret to dialing in SRAM front shifting? Only other thing I can think of is the chainring ramps/pins are worn and it's not picking up the chain. I'm about ready to go back to Shimano if I can't get this fixed. Ideas?

[esldude]

Cannot help. I have a titanium SRAM Force FD. It too shifts poorly. Very poorly. I cannot even figure out why. Have adjusted, changed angles etc. Everything I can change and it just doesn't shift well. I will probably get any Shimano FD to replace it. Have an old MTB Shimano SLX I will possibly use in the interim. Have to be better.

Nice carbon frame bike that works great except for this barely functional shifting on the front derailleur.

[likebikes]

sounds about right to me.

[benitosan1972]

this problem is common to SRAM: Rival, Force, even Red.
the best solution is to switch to Shimano or Campy, lol.

[rice rocket]

It's an alignment issue. I had this issue on my DA7800 derailleur.

I took it to the LBS and they set it up right.

[sw3759]

actually i am kind of surprised to hear all the negative comments about the Red front shifting.i cant comment on the Force or Rival as i haven't used it.
i have close to 2k miles on mine and it has never missed a shift dropped a chain.i don't really shift under alot of power,maybe a habit from before we had any ramps or pins.i guess the throw is little longer than i'd like but thats a pretty minor annoyance and the only negative thing i can say about my sram front shifting.maybe i was expecting the worst after reading about all the bad experiences so many people posted online.
fwiw,i'm using a kmc x10sl chain with 50/34 and 50/38 rings.maybe it will get worse with more miles..but it has been flawless since i set it up new.


Scott

[thegunner]

Cannot help. I have a titanium SRAM Force FD. It too shifts poorly. Very poorly. I cannot even figure out why. Have adjusted, changed angles etc. Everything I can change and it just doesn't shift well. I will probably get any Shimano FD to replace it. Have an old MTB Shimano SLX I will possibly use in the interim. Have to be better.

Nice carbon frame bike that works great except for this barely functional shifting on the front derailleur.

you mean... red right? the force cages aren't Ti...

[fourflys]

I took it to the LBS and they set it up right.

bingo... I've up a couple of Rival FDs with no issues... not to sounds like a jerk, but it sounds like operator error...

[benitosan1972]

Someone tell Schleck

[David Kirk]

I use Red and it works very well - that said it is fussy to set up and is VERY sensitive to the rotational position on the seat tube. In other words the angle the cage makes relative to the rings. If it isn't just right it all goes to ****. Once right it works very well.

I'm told the new stuff is much less sensitive FWIW.

Dave

[irideti]

My Force FD has been working perfectly w/ Red shifter & crankset since the first day........

[haneriali]

I have 4000 miles on my LBS-setup Force, and I've experienced 3 dropped chains (after which I put on a chain keeper) and numerous missed FD upshifts. BTW - most issues seem to occur on slight uphill or false-flat shifts. In 30,000 miles on Ultegra before, not a single chain or upshift problem. My conclusion - it's the equipment not the user. For whatever reason, this is a well-documented issue for many SRAM users.

[oldpotatoe]

bingo... I've up a couple of Rival FDs with no issues... not to sounds like a jerk, but it sounds like operator error...

There is no doubt that when it comes to FD action and the companies involved, shimano seems the best, Campagnolo close second and sram a third. Why sram has redesigned their new red FD so drastically. The effort on sram Fders is always high, the shifts not certain, new red seems to finally address this issue. Velonews did a piece online about this and it 'seems' a new red FD on any sram system, helps front shifting a lot.

[AngryScientist]

i've heard, from numerous parties, that replacing the chainrings with ones with better ramps and pins is a big help.

[phcollard]

i've heard, from numerous parties, that replacing the chainrings with ones with better ramps and pins is a big help.

I had a LOT of troubles with front shifting when I switched to SRAM. I mean this thing wasn't working. Dropped chains, overshifts, no shifting at all, you name it. I consider myself an OK mechanic and I tried everything, I also showed the bike to a pro mechanic, no hope.

It's sad to say but it started working when I replaced the FD by a DA 7800, and the crankset by an Athena 11 speed. Man... Campy really knows about chainring design. The setup now shifts better and faster than anything I've owned.

[fourflys]

There is no doubt that when it comes to FD action and the companies involved, shimano seems the best, Campagnolo close second and sram a third. Why sram has redesigned their new red FD so drastically. The effort on sram Fders is always high, the shifts not certain, new red seems to finally address this issue. Velonews did a piece online about this and it 'seems' a new red FD on any sram system, helps front shifting a lot.

no doubt my Chorus 11sp shifted very well... better than anything else I've had for sure... but I gotta say while it doesn't shift as smoothly, I've not had the issues that others have had here with SRAM FD... I am anxious to see when SRAM will let the new tech trickle down to the Force or Rival though...

[foo_fighter]

I've used the steel cage FD(Force) since it came out and never had a problem. I set it closer to 1mm to the tallest tooth on the big rig and parallel to the rings.

I also use the barrel adjuster to take out all the slack so that the FD is just barely resting on on the Low stop when fully released.

Lastly when shifting: pedal normally->soft pedal-> shift->soft pedal->pedal normally. This actually happens much faster once you get into the habit of it....it only takes 1-2 rotations of the crank.

You could try a 7800 FD, or the new Red(Yaw) FD which is supposed to be amazing, but even harder to set up correctly....but it's most likely a setup issue.

[floxy1]

Thanks for all the input. FDs are cheap enough I may try a 7800 and see if it helps. Anyone want to buy a Force FD? ;)

[Charles M]

It's an alignment issue. I had this issue on my DA7800 derailleur.

I took it to the LBS and they set it up right.


That's about it...

I was surprised at the massive improvements all companies made on their parts(even the same model years) as I got better at being a mechanic...


Want instant satisfaction and shifting as good as anything available? Buy some praxis rings and a kmc chain...

Otherwise it's simply a set up thing the OP is describing...

[vqdriver]

To the OP. the shift effort shouldnt be that hi. "feels like the cable will snap" is not how it should feel. Im guessing you've got a setup issue. Maybe a bad kink somewhere or bad FD angle leading to no leverage. It can be finicky to setup but once it's done it works quite well.

[Lifecycle]

this problem is common to SRAM: Rival, Force, even Red.
the best solution is to switch to Shimano or Campy, lol.


+1 on that , went to shimano myself , but have alaways heard alot of great things about Campy..... Someday .....

[RacerJRP]

As has been stated in this thread. Some may not care for the shifting feel of Sram but I have never had an issue of over shifting, dropping chains, over tension. etc. with a properly tuned FD.

While it may not be as buttery smooth as others....My F shifting ALWAYS works. Please, do yourself a favor and ride/try electric if you want buttery smooth. It is REALLY impresive, but I still don't want a battery on my bike. ;)

[gavingould]

sram fronts are a little picky getting set up - in my experience, err on the side of less cable tension.

[sc53]

this problem is common to SRAM: Rival, Force, even Red.
the best solution is to switch to Shimano or Campy, lol.
Add Apex to this list. Big problems shifting my new Apex FD. Multiple return visits to the LBS. I hope I don't have to bail to Shimano.

[fallen86]

i wish i could personally check all of these bikes with shifting problems. I've used them all: red, force, apex. and they've never really had any problems. Red has slightly mushy front shifting but it gets crisp once you switch it to force and or shimano. Of course i get the occasional chain drop once in a while but that's not uncommon i don't think...

[oldpotatoe]

i wish i could personally check all of these bikes with shifting problems. I've used them all: red, force, apex. and they've never really had any problems. Red has slightly mushy front shifting but it gets crisp once you switch it to force and or shimano. Of course i get the occasional chain drop once in a while but that's not uncommon i don't think...

"personally check all these(sram) shifting prolems?" You'd will be a busy camper

[benadrian]

Bringing a thread back from the DEAD!

I just got a used, barely-ridden bike with Apex. I've never had SRAM on anything before. I was always curious, but the jury's still out.

The rear derailleur works great. The shifting is solid and crisp.

The front derailleur and possibly cranks have just been giving me problems non-stop. About one in every five or ten shifts from small to big, the chain overshoots and derails on the outside. At the same time, about one in every five shifts up, the chain seems to not be able to grab the big ring and it just stays in the small ring rubbing constantly against the inside of the big ring. To be extra clear, I'm getting these two opposing behaviors with the exact same FD setup.

This is a non-Yaw FD.

I've set up a number of Shimano FDs and never had a problem. I've adjusted the height, the angle, and I've re-set it up from scratch a number of times. I've re-watched Park Tool and other videos just to confirm.

At this point I don't think it's my skill or lack thereof. I'm overlooking a defect or problem, or there's just something I've never considered. Any ideas? Maybe crankset?

Thanks!

[gavingould]

throwing the chain off the outside of the big ring makes me think the limit screw isn't set right.
but then, not being able to get it to shift all the way to the big ring, usually i'd say the limit is too far in...

are the ramps/pins worn off the big ring?
teeth worn down on the big ring?
does the big ring have a side to side wobble when you spin the cranks? you can also take the rings off and see if they lay flat on a known-flat surface.
chainring bolts all tight?
chainrings in the right position? should be indicators for which area lines up behind the crank arm - that's how the ramps/pins sync up to help move the chain up.

i've seen bikes described as used/barely ridden that have totally blown chains and chainrings... but i'd go through all the above before calling in a new chain and rings.

[benadrian]

throwing the chain off the outside of the big ring makes me think the limit screw isn't set right.
but then, not being able to get it to shift all the way to the big ring, usually i'd say the limit is too far in...

are the ramps/pins worn off the big ring?
teeth worn down on the big ring?
does the big ring have a side to side wobble when you spin the cranks? you can also take the rings off and see if they lay flat on a known-flat surface.
chainring bolts all tight?
chainrings in the right position? should be indicators for which area lines up behind the crank arm - that's how the ramps/pins sync up to help move the chain up.

i've seen bikes described as used/barely ridden that have totally blown chains and chainrings... but i'd go through all the above before calling in a new chain and rings.

I just went out to the bike garage to look and it's missing the pin that's on the outside of the chain-ring in between the big ring and the inner crank arm! I know it used to be there. I think it must have come off after a pretty bad chain drop incident.

I know it used to be there because I had taken the chain rings off to check. There are a few warn teeth, but nothing terrible.

I have some other cranks I can try. i just ordered the correct bottom bracket.

Thanks!

[Dave]

There's a long thread on weight weenies right now, complaining about the new force axs. Of course they're all using force cranks. All I could say is I've set up two Campy chorus 12 cranks and a shimano grx crank with force axs and had no problems. I have to think that some folks are lacking the necessary mechanical skills.

[oldpotatoe]

Bringing a thread back from the DEAD!

I just got a used, barely-ridden bike with Apex. I've never had SRAM on anything before. I was always curious, but the jury's still out.

The rear derailleur works great. The shifting is solid and crisp.

The front derailleur and possibly cranks have just been giving me problems non-stop. About one in every five or ten shifts from small to big, the chain overshoots and derails on the outside. At the same time, about one in every five shifts up, the chain seems to not be able to grab the big ring and it just stays in the small ring rubbing constantly against the inside of the big ring. To be extra clear, I'm getting these two opposing behaviors with the exact same FD setup.

This is a non-Yaw FD.

I've set up a number of Shimano FDs and never had a problem. I've adjusted the height, the angle, and I've re-set it up from scratch a number of times. I've re-watched Park Tool and other videos just to confirm.

At this point I don't think it's my skill or lack thereof. I'm overlooking a defect or problem, or there's just something I've never considered. Any ideas? Maybe crankset?

Thanks!

Find a shimano 6700 front der..done this many times..works great with apex(and others)...

[Gummee]

Find a shimano 6700 front der..done this many times..works great with apex(and others)...

This.

All 5 of my otherwise SRAM Red equipped bikes had D/A front derailleurs on them.

I have a few 'leftover' Shimano front derailleurs if any SRAM users would like one for 'not much.'

M

[.RJ]

On most of my SRAM bikes I've replaced the FD with a 10s ultegra unit, usually about $20 and akes a world of difference.

[mulp]

Not sure if it was mentioned but the yaw fd have a different setup compared to the regular non-yaw fds.

[benadrian]

Not sure if it was mentioned but the yaw fd have a different setup compared to the regular non-yaw fds.

Yeah. This is a non-Yaw, FYI. Still a pain.

Interesting to see so many people swapping FDs, but I love a good tinkering story.

I have some GRX cranks that I'm going to try on this bike, once a new BB shows up. I also have a couple Shimano FDs lying around, so I will be swapping over to a hybrid SRAMano groupset once all the bits show up.

Thanks everyone for all the experience!

[jtbadge]

I've tried the Shimano FD with SRAM everything else and honestly it made the front shifting sloppier compared to a Rival or Force FD. Also if you're running a big (32t+) cog in the rear, the chain will rub against the top of a Shimano FD cage.

The SRAM FDs work just fine if you have the limits set properly and the cable tension high enough.

[benadrian]

I've tried the Shimano FD with SRAM everything else and honestly it made the front shifting sloppier compared to a Rival or Force FD. Also if you're running a big (32t+) cog in the rear, the chain will rub against the top of a Shimano FD cage.

The SRAM FDs work just fine if you have the limits set properly and the cable tension high enough.

Interesting, about the top rub. I do have a 32t big cog on the cassette. When I lowered the FD to 1mm above the 50t front chainring, I was getting the top rub on the Apex FD. I had to re-raise the front.

I've also had the cable tension so high that when I correctly set the outer limit screw for the FD, there was no movement between when shifting between the big rind and the big ring trimmed position on the FD.

This is my steel-frame, fun bike. It has all external cable routing. It's super easy to swap parts and try experiments, so I'm game for anything. I'm also on the lookout for a 10 speed Force or Red FD, just to maybe try that out as well.

Thanks for the insight!

[Gummee]

The SRAM FDs work just fine if you have the limits set properly and the cable tension high enough.

Let's just say your experience has been different from my own and the ancient tater's.

I've seen a LOT of SRAM bikes over the last 30-some years and after New Success was stopped, SRAM hasn't made a front derailleur that'll shift well since.

I'm convinced that's why they pushed 1x so heavily.

M

[fa63]

I have SRAM Red with Force Yaw FD; shifts great.

Let's just say your experience has been different from my own and the ancient tater's.

I've seen a LOT of SRAM bikes over the last 30-some years and after New Success was stopped, SRAM hasn't made a front derailleur that'll shift well since.

I'm convinced that's why they pushed 1x so heavily.

M

[oldpotatoe]

Let's just say your experience has been different from my own and the ancient tater's.

I've seen a LOT of SRAM bikes over the last 30-some years and after New Success was stopped, SRAM hasn't made a front derailleur that'll shift well since.

I'm convinced that's why they pushed 1x so heavily.

M

:banana::banana:
Particularly 10s....

[El Chaba]

Let's just say your experience has been different from my own and the ancient tater's.

I've seen a LOT of SRAM bikes over the last 30-some years and after New Success was stopped, SRAM hasn't made a front derailleur that'll shift well since.

I'm convinced that's why they pushed 1x so heavily.

M

I agree on the reasoning behind the 1x....Your mention of the New Success front derailleur is interesting....The discussion of front shifting came up at an after ride discussion/coffee/ bull session. The guys with SRAM mentioned it as a weak link of the group, and I mentioned the irony as for all of the evolution of components, I still think that the New Success front derailleur was the slickest/ most reliable ever made. A relatively recent project reinforced that impression as well....

[JohnnyBoston]

I used to have a riding buddy who rode SRAM Red. He refused to ever shift out of his big ring because he was worried he wouldn't be able to shift back into it. :):):)

[benadrian]

I used to have a riding buddy who rode SRAM Red. He refused to ever shift out of his big ring because he was worried he wouldn't be able to shift back into it. :):):)

I was doing the reverse on my last gravel ride. I rarely got out of the small because I didn't want to through my chain. It was coast or spin ;)

Ben

[joevers]

I used to have a riding buddy who rode SRAM Red. He refused to ever shift out of his big ring because he was worried he wouldn't be able to shift back into it. :):):)

This sounds ridiculous and if I didn't have the same experience I just wouldn't believe it. And I work as a mechanic. I cross chained quite a bit because it was easier to deal with than shifting down and back up. I, 190 miles into the longest day I've had on a bike, climbed a thousand feet in the dark in the big ring because my hands were cold and I was scared if I went to the little ring I'd never get out of it. Sram rival yaw front derailleur was an absolute nightmare on White Industries cranks and chainrings. I can't believe I put up with it as long as I did.

On my sram red setup with higher end jagwire cables I got the shifting pretty good. It never rubbed and never threw the chain, but it still never felt fantastic. I'll agree that they are noticeably better with higher than average cable tension. I ride Shimano now.

[ChainNoise]

From first hand experience, it's poor setup. I used to throw the chain over the big ring multiple times every single ride. It was a combination of incorrect angle, not enough cable tension, and poor limit screw points. It absolutely is setup error. I started from scratch on all 4 of my force/red bikes and not one chain drop or one chain over the big ring since I redid them.

[Dave]

Don't blame all front shifting problems on the FD. I've got two force axs electronic yaw FDs that have shifted flawlessly with Campy chorus 12 cranks and now one has a shimano grx 11 speed crank. With grx, it's shifted well with the standard +2.5mm chainline, a +1mm chainline and now a normal chainline that matches my chorus 12 chainline. Ramps and pins on the chain rings make a difference too.

[.RJ]

the yaw chainrings + FD were a significant improvement over the old stuff.

I never threw the chain off regularly with the old stuff, or couldnt get it to shift, it just kinda shifted like garbage, slow to shift, sometimes wouldnt but would always get there. The Shimano 6700 FD got rid of most of that.

[benadrian]

Progress report.

I replaced the Apex Crank with a GRX Crank I had. This was always the plan, I just needed a new BB.

I have an Ultegra 6800 FD. When mounted it would not go over for enough to the right for the big ring, since the GRX chainline is 2.5 mm wider. NO go.

I put the Apex FD back on and set it up from scratch. It had enough travel to meet teh chainline. Once again on the second or third shift I threw the chain to the outside. Or, it would not engage.

I then remembered that I had a FD-1055 (105 from 1990???) for sale on marketplace. I popped that on, the bike, set it up from scratch, and I'll be damned if it didn't work pretty much perfectly.

So, Those are my results from a few hours of derailleur fiddling.

[Dave]

I knew when I bought my grx crank that the chain line would need correction. The #98370A015 washers I found at McMaster-Carr fit perfectly, although only 2.2mm thick. The other problem is the chain ring bolt engagement is kind of minimal, when you lose 3 turns of engagement out of 7 turns. I found some real cheap race face 12.5mm bolts for only $2.50 for a set of four. Those were almost too long, since only about half the length is threaded.

https://www.jensonusa.com/Raceface-Chainring-Bolt-Pack-125mm

A lot of after market bolts are $15 for four.

[GParkes]

My Force FD has been working perfectly w/ Red shifter & crankset since the first day........

Ditto. I've had 2 Rival groups, 2 Force groups, and 1 Red. All shift flawlessly - front and rear.