New build Help Me Spock....

[UKBROOKLYN]

So the Merlin Extralight frame is supposed to arrive on Saturday..

I need everything..

Big question is which group... I thought I was going with Chorus.. and then a friend got all angry with me and now I am looking back at Force... (I have already ruled out Shimano... I have never liked the brake lever shift)

Campy is sweet but Force is 200 bucks less and has a ton more options in cassettes... BTW I live in NYC and will be doing the 50/34 compact thing..

Will the Force look out of place on the Merlin ?? So many questions so confused.. don't want to Jump and regret but need a push...

[crownjewelwl]

i personally think campy would look better on a classic ti build...200 bones over the course of your ownership/use shouldn't really be much of a factor!

[firerescuefin]

Ton more options????

How many do you need? A 50-34 with 12-29 would take you pretty much anywhere you want to go. Curious as to what "issues" would make your friend angry with regard to Campy. I would do Chorus..but the Force will look fine and will be a serviceable groupo.

I always try to pick the decision that I think has the least chance of regret (when I can). I would advise you to do the same.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Actually I think the Force would look better.. The Campy has all that squirely carbon look on the cranks.. Plus the force is kind of grey..

My buddy is a died in the wool DA fan..

I am going down to my LBS to take another look and test the hoods..AGAIN..

God I have to buy wheels and stem and everything...

[christian]

For our local rides, I would avoid the 50/34. I don't know how strong you are, but if you're an NYCC B/B+ rider, I think you'll find a 50/34 causes a fair amount of cross chaining and chainring shifts at your average cruising speeds. For here, I think a 53/39 paired with a 12-25 cassette is preferable. Getting up Churchill or Walnut (or from the Alpine boat basin) in a 39-25 is no big deal.

Considering your Sturmey FM probably has a range of 50-95 or something like that, you'd gain ten gear inches on the top and bottom regardless. Obviously would have (ahem) somewhat finer steps.

BTW, I'll take you up on your offer to ride the Clubman! I had a Moulton MkIII with a Sturmey S5 for many years.

Oh, yeah, and Campy, for god's sake. SRAM, sheesh!

[MattTuck]

So the Merlin Extralight frame is supposed to arrive on Saturday..

I need everything..

Big question is which group... I thought I was going with Chorus.. and then a friend got all angry with me and now I am looking back at Force... (I have already ruled out Shimano... I have never liked the brake lever shift)

Campy is sweet but Force is 200 bucks less and has a ton more options in cassettes... BTW I live in NYC and will be doing the 50/34 compact thing..

Will the Force look out of place on the Merlin ?? So many questions so confused.. don't want to Jump and regret but need a push...

Scotty, we need more power!

[54ny77]

campy athena 11 sp gets my vote.

hi ho silver!

[veloduffer]

My vote is Campy - Athena alloy would be very nice. I have tried SRAM and some friends use SRAM - the big knock is the lousy front shifting.

As for the rear cassette options, the only advantage for SRAM is if you want to use their 11-32 cassette. Otherwise, Campy has 13-29 cassette.

[GuyGadois]

Apples vs oranges

Both are yummy

Both approach shifting differently

Go with the one you prefer the shifting on

That being said, I believe the Campy will keep its value better if that matters to you

GG

[jmoore]

What groups are on your other bikes? If you are tooled up for one group, then it's gonna cost more to tool up for another. Unless you like buying tools, in which case, get one of each!

[bart998]

Go with the Chorus. I bought a Red group and will soon dump it for an SR group. The primary reason is multiple shifting ability/adjustability in the drive train. I have a bike with Record and it works so much better. By the way, stay with the Chorus, lower models can't multi-shift and are just like DA and SRAM.

[modernfuturist]

Get the Chorus shifters so you have Ultra-shift, and then get everything else Athena so it's silver and shiny. You should be able to get it for pretty cheap at Ribble or Velomine!

[old_fat_and_slow]

.

[AgilisMerlin]

Go Chorus, Athena, or Centaur.

Tell your "angry" friend, that unless they are payin', to mind his/her own bidness.

:D

[d_douglas]

campy athena 11 sp gets my vote.

hi ho silver!


New Campy is stellar - your Merlin deserves better than SRAM. SRAM looks cool, but when it comes down to it, Campy is just a better, more serviceable product. Like em or not, they make great stuff.

Funny - your distaste for Shimano = my distaste for SRAM - I tried it and I won't go there again - I found it cumbersome and inaccurate. I rode on Chorus 11 today and it feels like what I think a 1980's Mercedes would feel like - solid, precise and maybe a bit clunky. I loved it!

[UKBROOKLYN]

Whaaa I hope it rides better than a 1980 Merc..
How is that a recommendation..

I cruise around 20

Also with Campy dual pivot front and back or just front ?? opine please

[bobswire]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ik5tds.jpg

[thwart]

Whaaa I hope it rides better than a 1980 Merc..
How is that a recommendation..

I cruise around 20

Also with Campy dual pivot front and back or just front ?? opine please
I like the differential braking for better modulation (therefore rear unipivot), but the consensus here has been do dual pivot front and rear. Easier to set up.

[uber]

I am lucky enough to have both gruppos on different bikes. Both SRAM (Red)
and Campy 10. The SRAM shifting is louder (although that might be different on the 2012 edition), but the up shifting feels more immediate. In the drops, it is easier to upshift with SRAM as it is not necessary for the thumb to reach up for the shifter lever. Campy is quieter, classy and works perfectly too. It really is what you like, and I think either would look great on a Merlin. Pinarello, Pegoretti, or Masi, I would pick Campy. On a race bike that I would be sprinting in the drops, I might pick SRAM. By the way, customer service for SRAM (and now Zipp) is world class. I have never had such positive support from any company, and in my case, they have bent over backwards on several occasions.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Bob sold me the frame and it looks like he is missing it already..

[fogrider]

shinybike has centaur 10 speed with egopower shifting for 151 bucks!

[Elefantino]

I thought I was going with Chorus.. and then a friend got all angry with me and now I am looking back at Force...
Get a new friend. :D

[Cat3roadracer]

Pictures when built, please.

[thinpin]

Get a new friend. :D
Just get him some valium. Tell him to direct what anger is left to more important issues.
Buy what you like and ride him off your wheel while singing.

"there ya go, direct your anger here"

[jr59]

Get the Chorus shifters so you have Ultra-shift, and then get everything else Athena so it's silver and shiny. You should be able to get it for pretty cheap at Ribble or Velomine!


^^ This ^^ Gets my vote.

[palincss]

Big question is which group... I thought I was going with Chorus.. and then a friend got all angry with me and now I am looking back at Force...


Question #1: why would someone get "all angry" over wanting to use Chorus?
Question #2: why would you care if they did?

[Black Dog]

My vote is Campy - Athena alloy would be very nice. I have tried SRAM and some friends use SRAM - the big knock is the lousy front shifting.

As for the rear cassette options, the only advantage for SRAM is if you want to use their 11-32 cassette. Otherwise, Campy has 13-29 cassette.


The 11 speed cassette is 12-29

[UKBROOKLYN]

Its silly discussing the interactions with my mate.. I only said it to emphasize the emotion with which some imbue to this process..

I have been studying the Sram Force kit and I have to say the options that going Sram offer are quite attractive.

[AngryScientist]

I have been studying the Sram Force kit and I have to say the options that going Sram offer are quite attractive.


such as what?

[UKBROOKLYN]

The actual weight of the SRAM PG-1070 Cassette varies with tooth count. For reference, the 11-25 is 224g.

The 11/23 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23
The 11/25 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25
The 11/26 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,26
The 11/28 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28
The 11/32 includes: 11,12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28,32
The 11/36 includes: 11,12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36
The 12/25 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25
The 12/26 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,26
The 12/27 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,27
The 12/28 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28
The 12/32 includes: 12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32
The 12/36 includes: 12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36


The Campagnolo Chorus 11 cassette comes with a lightweight alloy lockring. It's available in 5 ratios: 11-23, 11-25, 12-25, 12-27, and 12-29.

The 11-23 includes- 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,23
The 11-25 includes- 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25
The 12-25 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,23,25
The 12-27 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25,27
The 12-29 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,26,29

[AngryScientist]

The actual weight of the SRAM PG-1070 Cassette varies with tooth count. For reference, the 11-25 is 224g.

The 11/23 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23
The 11/25 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25
The 11/26 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,26
The 11/28 includes: 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28
The 11/32 includes: 11,12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28,32
The 11/36 includes: 11,12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36
The 12/25 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25
The 12/26 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,26
The 12/27 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,27
The 12/28 includes: 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28
The 12/32 includes: 12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32
The 12/36 includes: 12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36


The Campagnolo Chorus 11 cassette comes with a lightweight alloy lockring. It's available in 5 ratios: 11-23, 11-25, 12-25, 12-27, and 12-29.

The 11-23 includes- 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,23
The 11-25 includes- 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25
The 12-25 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,23,25
The 12-27 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25,27
The 12-29 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,26,29

nice cut and paste - but what about all those extra ratios actually appeals to you? surely in the NYC area, you dont think you need a compact combined with a 12-36 cassette true?

[firerescuefin]

Why are you considering the Campy...every post I have seen from you is pro SRAM...this thread seems to be trolling a little bit. Get the SRAM and knock yourself out. With compact rings that you say you want to run most of those SRAM cassettes are not really usable/decent options IMO...and at the low end, I imaging your running a different derailleur (long cage)....

After reading through this entire thread. I am not really sure what you want or are looking for.

[firerescuefin]

Spooky Nick :cool:

[fiamme red]

Its silly discussing the interactions with my mate.. I only said it to emphasize the emotion with which some imbue to this process.Your "mate" was angry that you were considering Campagnolo? :confused:

[bobswire]

Discussing the pros and cons of competing components can rise to the same level and emotions as discussing politics. Follow your heart.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Just BTW heres what I have been riding on my vintage Clubman..

I went to Sheldons site and worked out the gears that I have been pulling.. heres the dope.
I ride 165 cranks on a 46 T front, Sturmey Archer FW (Wide 4 speed) 19T rear
Ratios are .67 - .79 - 1 - 1.27
Gear inches are 43.6 - 51.6 - 65.4 - 82.8 (top speed is right around 28MPH at spin out..Slow speed means zig zagging on Clausland while clutching at chest.. ah no really...)

That gear ratio calculator is great ( http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/ )

[fiamme red]

I went to Sheldons site and worked out the gears that I have been pulling.. heres the dope.
I ride 165 cranks on a 46 T front, Sturmey Archer FW (Wide 4 speed) 19T rear
Ratios are .67 - .79 - 1 - 1.27
Gear inches are 43.6 - 51.6 - 65.4 - 82.8 (top speed is right around 28MPH at spin out..Slow speed means zig zagging on Clausland while clutching at chest.. ah no really...)In the NYC area, you're not going to have much use for a 50/11 unless you're racing.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Campy Chorus...Yeah Baby

50/34 12-27 or 12-29 any locals got a preference on the 29 over 27 you know I want to hit Bear Mountain

[christian]

Given that both have a 16, neither have an 18, and the difference is the last two steps:

...-23-25-27
...-23-26-29

So I don't think it matters. Are you doing D2R2? Do you ever ride Keeler Ln in North Salem? For those two, you might need the 29.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Sorry don't understand your banter old chap. Never was much of a Star Wars fan..
I want to ride the hills.. the Fondo timed ones and bear mountain. Clausland Alpine Tweed...

[fiamme red]

Sorry don't understand your banter old chap. Never was much of a Star Wars fan..But from the title of the thread, I'd guess that you're a Star Trek fan.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Being from England I am of course well read in the Classics.

[crownjewelwl]

Campy Chorus...Yeah Baby

50/34 12-27 or 12-29 any locals got a preference on the 29 over 27 you know I want to hit Bear Mountain

29 is like wearing sweatpants or driving your car with one of those bumper cars attached...you're just giving up

[firerescuefin]

Given that both have a 16, neither have an 18, and the difference is the last two steps:

...-23-25-27
...-23-26-29

So I don't think it matters. Are you doing D2R2? Do you ever ride Keeler Ln in North Salem? For those two, you might need the 29.


UK...Christian's not referring to R2D2 the robot.

But the the ride D2R2.

http://www.franklinlandtrust.org/randonnee.html

He's trying to determine what kind of riding your're going to do in order to narrow down gear ranges that make sense.

[AngryScientist]

the 29 isnt going to give you any advantage around these parts. IMO.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Yeah I am not a sweat pant wearer.. well not anywhere where anyone can see me.. So I guess i am going to do 12 - 27

I went to take another look at groups yesterday and although I have ridden all three.. I wanted to check the comfyness of the hoods again.. Campy has it all over the others for the long ride.. Now I just want to look at the Athena.. have not seen it in the flesh so to speak.. Am considering the alloy Athena with Chorus shifters..

[UKBROOKLYN]

Thanks to everyone who made their suggestions and put their oars in..

I wound up going with Athena Silver but Upgraded the levers to Chorus for the added functionality. Compact 50/34 with 12/27 in the rear.
(If I screwed up its 200 to switch to bigger cranks)

Deda Stem Bars and Seat Post.

Campy Neuron Wheels with Pro Race 3.. (white walls to go with white tape yeah...)

Ordered everything from Shiny Bikes in the UK.. The savings were spectacular.. Everything above including shipping came out to just over 1500 Bucks..

They say it should arrive sometime in the middle of next week.. So all I have to do now is finish cleaning the frame and put the new decals on.

I will initially put my Brooks B17N Imperial on the bike so I can get the feel right.. Then I will switch to a new saddle.. thinking something white and italian.. Ideas ??

Picture to follow in a couple of weeks.. (Do you want a studio shot or one from the top of Bear Mountain ??)