Milan San Remo Spoiler

[firerescuefin]

Congrats to Simon Gerans...worthy champion...great move by him, Nibali, and Cancellara on the Poggio....just made it. Hate to see Fabian take the majority of the pulls...but it is what it is.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Man, that blows for Cancellara, but what could he do? Gerrans took all of one short pull the last 5k. I know that's racing, but not the kind I like. Reminds me of last year's Paris Roubaix.

[jpw]

Man, that blows for Cancellara, but what could he do? Gerrans took all of one short pull the last 5k. I know that's racing, but not the kind I like. Reminds me of last year's Paris Roubaix.

Reminds me of Nick Nuyens at Flanders - Cancellara... yet again.

[retrofit]

Or even last year's Milan-Sanremo where Canc was beat at the line by another Aussie -- Matt Goss.

Great race, nevertheless.

[FlashUNC]

Gotta tip your hat to Gerrans. He hung on as Cancellara turned the screws and had enough for the sprint at the end.

That's racing sometimes.

[benitosan1972]

Sitting on Cancellara's wheel = drafting a Mack truck

[Fixed]

the english speaking riders are doing great this year

gilbert seemed be in good form till he fell
great fun , nice to watch and beautiful scenery
cheers

[jpw]

the english speaking riders are doing great this year

gilbert seemed be in good form till he fell
great fun , nice to watch and beautiful scenery
cheers

I thought Aussies spoke Aussie.

[toaster]

Gotta tip your hat to Gerrans. He hung on as Cancellara turned the screws and had enough for the sprint at the end.

That's racing sometimes.


He should have! Gerrans sat in Cancellara's slipstream for a long enough time.

Not much Fabian could have done except keep himself, Gerrans and Nibali away from the chasing pack. Had he eased up he would have seen himself and the other two drop about a dozen places in the results.

How much should Gerrans reward Cancellara for his work to get him the big prize?

[FlashUNC]

Wasn't as if it's a totally free pass to the finish line.

He held on a rather technical descent to the line, played it smartly.

Besides, wasn't as if everyone in that main group was able to hang on Cancellara's wheel when he went.

Cancellara got out marked. That's racing.

[Fixed]

the strongest rider does not always win
Unless it is a t.t.
They stayed away long enough after 300 k my hat is off to the three they timed it perfectly
Most enjoyable IMHO

[fatallightning]

Fab was in a tough spot, drag them along, or slow down and try a field sprint. Nibali had Sagan waiting to sprint, and Gerrans had Goss. Talk about being up against the wall.

[tiretrax]

It sucks, but that's the way it goes - Jens getting pipped at Paris-Nice when he did most of the work on the breakway. More like Hausler getting robbed at Milan-San Remo by Cavendish.

I thought VanSummeran was on a solo breakaway at P-R last year. He seemed to deserve that.

[FixedNotBroken]

Where can I watch a reply of the footage?

[nooneline]

Not much Fabian could have done except keep himself, Gerrans and Nibali away from the chasing pack. Had he eased up he would have seen himself and the other two drop about a dozen places in the results.

Yup, you nailed it. If Gerrans or Nibali took a pull, the trio would have slowed down. If Cancellara was interested in that sort of "fairness" he wouldn't have gotten 2nd place. His best chance at winning was driving that train all the way to the line and hoping to outsprint Gerrans - which, at the end of 298kilometers, and with Cancellara's notably improving kick, wasn't out of the question.

[nooneline]

Where can I watch a reply of the footage?

cyclingfans.com
cyclingtorrents.nl

[johnnymossville]

If I was Cancellara I would have said Pull or we're both going to be eaten by the pack and spit off the back.

Aussies have proven themselves good wheelsuckers the last couple years. Good for them.

[jpw]

Cancellara isn't the greatest of tacticians, but often he doesn't need to be. There are times when he could fake the opponent out. Gerrans was not going to counter bluff in that unique position.

[cmg]

If I was Cancellara I would have said Pull or we're both going to be eaten by the pack and spit off the back.

Aussies have proven themselves good wheelsuckers the last couple years. Good for them.


Is Cancellara willing to face the prospect of defeat by not doing the majority of the pulling and have to challenge the pack or pull to the last moment and only be challenged by 2 other riders. while some make a claim that this was the rider using his brains in order to win. I think cancellara knew his odds with the pack, knows his strenght is at the 1 day races, this was his chance and took it. it was an excellent effort.

[johnnymossville]

Is Cancellara willing to face the prospect of defeat by not doing the majority of the pulling and have to challenge the pack or pull to the last moment and only be challenged by 2 other riders. while some make a claim that this was the rider using his brains in order to win. I think cancellara knew his odds with the pack, knows his strenght is at the 1 day races, this was his chance and took it. it was an excellent effort.

I agree completely with what you said, but then he could/should have threatened to sit up. The gap at the end was literally a second or two. Without Cancellara pulling they would have been eaten 2K from the finish and spit off the back.

Congrats to the winner though. He played the finish perfectly.

[firerescuefin]

I agree completely with what you said, but then he could/should have threatened to sit up. The gap at the end was literally a second or two. Without Cancellara pulling they would have been eaten 2K from the finish and spit off the back.

Congrats to the winner though. He played the finish perfectly.


....and you know what they would have done. They would have refused to work with him...seeing that Goss and Sagan were in tow in the group behind. I love Fabian and I hate to see that Bulsh*t, but that's called great tactics by Liquigas and Green Edge.

[Gummee]

FC was pretty much in a no-win situation:

Pull 2 other guys up to the line and hope or sit up and get swallowed by the other finishers.

Tough choice.

I think I would've tried the same thing.

IF he'd had another Xkm he probably could have broken both Nibali and Gerrans, but... he didn't. C'est la guerre

M

[firerescuefin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vucdIUv-eaA

Real action starts at about 5:20 in. This was the first time I watched it again after watching it live. Reading a few articles after the race, Gerans had noted that it took everything he had physically to stay with Cancellara on the descent and that's true when you watch it. Cancellara held of the entire peloton for 6.2K essentially without help...and looked like he was ripping the legs of of Nibali and Gerans. There was no soft pedaling there. FC is a FREAK!...Man's Game. :beer:

[retrofit]

....and you know what they would have done. They would have refused to work with him...seeing that Goss and Sagan were in tow in the group behind. I love Fabian and I hate to see that Bulsh*t, but that's called great tactics by Liquigas and Green Edge.

I have to agree. Fabian gave his best, to the point of "...lactic acid coming out my ears..." but came up short against better tactics.

Now the race organizers (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/route-changes-for-2013-milan-san-remo) want to make the route steeper at the Cipressa and finish at the bottom of the Poggio to benefit the strong men and limit the sprinters. Ultimately, the organizers are hoping it leads to an Italian (read Nibali) winner.

In response to the proposed changes Gerard Vroomen of Cervelo (http://gerard.cc/) makes some interesting, if not valid points.

[firerescuefin]

I have to agree. Fabian gave his best, to the point of "...lactic acid coming out my ears..." but came up short against better tactics.

Now the race organizers (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/route-changes-for-2013-milan-san-remo) want to make the route steeper at the Cipressa and finish at the bottom of the Poggio to benefit the strong men and limit the sprinters. Ultimately, the organizers are hoping it leads to an Italian (read Nibali) winner.

In response to the proposed changes Gerard Vroomen of Cervelo (http://gerard.cc/) makes some interesting, if not valid points.

GV's article was great read, and spot on!...thanks for linking.

My favorite quote..."People who say Gerrans should have taken a few pulls should go work for the United Nations, not watch sports."

[MattTuck]

I have to agree. Fabian gave his best, to the point of "...lactic acid coming out my ears..." but came up short against better tactics.

Now the race organizers (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/route-changes-for-2013-milan-san-remo) want to make the route steeper at the Cipressa and finish at the bottom of the Poggio to benefit the strong men and limit the sprinters. Ultimately, the organizers are hoping it leads to an Italian (read Nibali) winner.

In response to the proposed changes Gerard Vroomen of Cervelo (http://gerard.cc/) makes some interesting, if not valid points.

Or they could bring back Cippo...


In all seriousness, Fabian has to sit up ONCE in race, and let the peloton over take the escape he was leading out. If that happens, just once, every race in the future that involves other riders and him, the fellow escapees will believe he will credibly give up if they don't pull a fair share. I believe that others are barely able to keep up with him, but even having them pull so he can get a rest, would be more fair than this oft repeated pattern.


I love FC, but I wish he raced with a bit more finesse than just using his massive talent and descending skill. I mean, PR and RvV from 2010 were freakish displays of power, but you can't win like that every time, you need to race with your head a bit more, even if it means showing the rest of the peloton you're willing to lose.

[cmg]

"than just using his massive talent and descending skill." I wish they would have posted the speed cause they are hauling. what's the forum's estimate? 40+?

[fatallightning]

Or they could bring back Cippo...


In all seriousness, Fabian has to sit up ONCE in race, and let the peloton over take the escape he was leading out. If that happens, just once, every race in the future that involves other riders and him, the fellow escapees will believe he will credibly give up if they don't pull a fair share. I believe that others are barely able to keep up with him, but even having them pull so he can get a rest, would be more fair than this oft repeated pattern.


I love FC, but I wish he raced with a bit more finesse than just using his massive talent and descending skill. I mean, PR and RvV from 2010 were freakish displays of power, but you can't win like that every time, you need to race with your head a bit more, even if it means showing the rest of the peloton you're willing to lose.

That's what he did at PR in 2011. He sat up and refused to tow Thor, et al up to Van Summeren and the break.

[jpw]

That's what he did at PR in 2011. He sat up and refused to tow Thor, et al up to Van Summeren and the break.

That was a little bit yes and a little bit no. In MSR he was leading, and that's when I'd like to see him sit up and scare the towed.

[firerescuefin]

That was a little bit yes and a little bit no. In MSR he was leading, and that's when I'd like to see him sit up and scare the towed.


...they were marking him, their teams strategized for just this scenario..why would they be scared. His best tactic was just what he did. It's a downhill/false flat finish...not the easiest course to drop somebody in a break, but he tried. He ended up being a half wheel short. His mistake in Flanders last year was going too soon. He had the HP to ride everyone off his wheel, just went too soon. He's not a sprinter. His engine is his weapon. He's a smart guy, a great bike handler, and the best motor in the sport. I wouldn't bet against him in Flanders.

[Keith A]

Great race...just wish it would have ended differently. BTW, does anyone have a link to any post race comments from FC?

[jpw]

...they were marking him, their teams strategized for just this scenario..why would they be scared. His best tactic was just what he did. It's a downhill/false flat finish...not the easiest course to drop somebody in a break, but he tried. He ended up being a half wheel short. His mistake in Flanders last year was going too soon. He had the HP to ride everyone off his wheel, just went too soon. He's not a sprinter. His engine is his weapon. He's a smart guy, a great bike handler, and the best motor in the sport. I wouldn't bet against him in Flanders.

Yes he was marked. However, it was so close to the end of MSR that team managers would be out of the decision making loop. Then it comes down to rider against rider, and psychology plays a huge part. Would Gerrans sit up too that close to a career defining win? I doubt that Nabali would have to allow Sagan a shot at La Primavera. He would have suddenly had a malfunctioning radio.

[firerescuefin]

Yes he was marked. However, it was so close to the end of MSR that team managers would be out of the decision making loop. Then it comes down to rider against rider, and psychology plays a huge part. Would Gerrans sit up too that close to a career defining win? I doubt that Nabali would have to allow Sagan a shot at La Primavera. He would have suddenly had a malfunctioning radio.

Those decisions were made long before the race started. DS's for both Liquigas and Green Edge as well as Nibalin and Gerrans are on record saying as much. You pussy foot around and try playing the gamesmanship card with those guys...you have 0 shot of winning...and when did you see any opportunity for them to pull through other than the time that Gerrans came around. FC knew the game. He gave it a shot and lost. There's a reason that Bettini was the last winner that came from a break...back in 2003..because the Peleton can bring people back...except when a superhuman effort takes place. I challenge you to watch the replay. He was ripping their legs off. The Peleton made 0 progress up until the last 100+ meters.

[jpw]

Those decisions were made long before the race started. DS's for both Liquigas and Green Edge as well as Nibalin and Gerrans are on record saying as much. You pussy foot around and try playing the gamesmanship card with those guys...you have 0 shot of winning...and when did you see any opportunity for them to pull through other than the time that Gerrans came around. FC knew the game. He gave it a shot and lost. There's a reason that Bettini was the last winner that came from a break...back in 2003..because the Peleton can bring people back...except when a superhuman effort takes place. I challenge you to watch the replay. He was ripping their legs off. The Peleton made 0 progress up until the last 100+ meters.

Just a conversation, not a challenge or a duel. Take the victory, it's all yours.

[firerescuefin]

Just a conversation, not a challenge or a duel. Take the victory, it's all yours.

It's call an exchange of points of view. I was questioning the conclusions that you drew.I actually enjoy the debate. You're telling everyone he should of sat up and essentially that the DS's for Green Edge and Liquigas hadn't planned to send guys up the road on the Poggio if there was an attack..I disagree and backed it up with my rationale ..if that's too much for you, then sorry.

[MattTuck]

It's call an exchange of points of view. I was questioning the conclusions that you drew.I actually enjoy the debate. You're telling everyone he should of sat up and essentially that the DS's for Green Edge and Liquigas hadn't planned to send guys up the road on the Poggio if there was an attack..I disagree and backed it up with my rationale ..if that's too much for you, then sorry.

I do think he should have sat up, not so much as a winning tactic, but as a credible signal for future races. FC seems to be able to motor away from the peloton at will, although this doesn't always mean victory if he's got dingleberries hanging off his ass. Sending people up the road is one thing, and certainly an aspect of strategy. When FC goes, you (rider in the peloton) have to play the odds, and suspect it is the winning move. If you can go with him, you do. End of story. If he is pulling so hard that you can't even take a full pull, and come around him at the end to win, that is racing, and I don't have a moral objection to it.

If you're FC, and you're tired of said dingleberries not able/willing to do their turn at the front to win it, then I propose a simple solution. Throw in the towel once, and see if guys in the future find a little something extra when they're out front with FC doing the lion's share of the work. He's not asking for 50/50, he's asking for 90/10. He should be able to get that.

[firerescuefin]

Matt.....I don't know??? I think when he is on form...he can call his shot...if it's in the right place. He blew Flanders last year, and Garmin just called a better race at Roubaix. There really is no other place to attack in San Remo other than the Poggio...or wait in the Peleton and attack right at the bottom of the descent. I think as long as you have team tactics and teams with guys that are capable of winning going up the road, while you keep a sprinter in the main bunch, you're going to have results like this. I do believe that Nibali and Gerrans were incapable of coming around until the last 6-700 meters..any other time and they're losing time to the peleton. Gerrans is on record as saying he was struggling to hold his wheel, and watching the replay, that seems pretty obvious. Interesting stuff. Can't wait for Flanders. FC is going to put a beat down on em.

[jpw]

It's call an exchange of points of view. I was questioning the conclusions that you drew.I actually enjoy the debate. You're telling everyone he should of sat up and essentially that the DS's for Green Edge and Liquigas hadn't planned to send guys up the road on the Poggio if there was an attack..I disagree and backed it up with my rationale ..if that's too much for you, then sorry.

OK, I'll counter. One word, Freire. I believe he was in the chase group and with support. That makes Gerrans think twice about not pulling if Fab sits up, both for himself and for his team behind. Same for Nibali. Fab has already won MSR and finished second. Risking losing second for a chance of victory is a risk worth taking (IMHO). Risking losing a podium for Gerrans (no Monuments podiums) or Nibali (Italian, and needing a contract renewal) less so.

Two points about Fab I'd like to make.

First, he has the strongest legs. That's a strength, but also an unintended weakness in other ways. It means he hasn't had the need to evolve his tactical thinking quite as much as other riders. There are times when he can just ride away to victory, but other times that doesn't work. His strategy needs to evolve.

Second, he chose to sign for Leopard knowing it was a team constructed around the TdF and the Schlecks. He took the money on offer (good luck to him, he's worked hard to be what he is), but must have known that the team roster offered little help in the classics. I'm sure other teams better suited to his strengths were offering a better roster of classics riders, but less money overall.

It was a good race. I look forward to Flanders and PR. Boonen looks a major threat in both. I would say he's possibly the favorite for both in present form.

[weiwentg]

Imo, Cancellara needs to start racing with his head as well as his heart. The greatest champions have it both. In the last 2 years, Cancellara hasn't demonstrated that he has the head. This is not to take anything away from his superb effort, but perhaps being so strong, he hasn't had the need to develop a tactical nous.

I have no opinion on what I would do if I were him in the breakaway. For that race, it may well be that this was what he should have done. I'd like to say that if I were him, I'd have tried a breakaway in the last kilometer. He's won things that way before. But that's not relevant - my comment is more directed at him in general. What he did in this edition of MSR is a symptom of maybe a larger problem. Of course, this is a nice problem to have, but that's my €0.02.