do you think Shimano will stop making hi/mid end road triples?

[eddief]

seems like next year S will have road rear derailleurs and road cassette that take up to 32 teeth. no big deal, but does that spell the end of 105, Ultegra, and DA triple cranks?

[54ny77]

the gearing jumps would be ridiculous without triples.

i hope not.

seems like next year S will have road rear derailleurs and road cassette that take up to 32 teeth. no big deal, but does that spell the end of 105, Ultegra, and DA triple cranks?

[Ahneida Ride]

the gearing jumps would be ridiculous without triples.

i hope not.

There is still the TA Carmina. .... lots of frns. :crap:

[Bradford]

seems like next year S will have road rear derailleurs and road cassette that take up to 32 teeth. no big deal, but does that spell the end of 105, Ultegra, and DA triple cranks?
I hope not, I don't see the two as being related.

I run a triple on my touring bike with a 34 tooth cassette (XT derailleur). I'd love to be able to throw a 32 on my road triple too. The older I get, the more I like those big rings in the back.

[Ralph]

I run a triple Campy Record and I don't think a compact crank comes close to replacing the triple for me. If concerned....stock up.

[Bob Loblaw]

I'd think they would at least keep the triple for the 105 group.

BL

[oldpotatoe]

seems like next year S will have road rear derailleurs and road cassette that take up to 32 teeth. no big deal, but does that spell the end of 105, Ultegra, and DA triple cranks?

DA triples have been gone for a couple/few years(no 7900 triple) and I 'hear' Campagnolo will be reintroducing some high end triples for 11s so no, I think 6700/5700, other, triples are here for a while.

[Chance]

seems like next year S will have road rear derailleurs and road cassette that take up to 32 teeth. no big deal, but does that spell the end of 105, Ultegra, and DA triple cranks?
It's possible that these larger 30T and 32T cogs will be offered in large part because electronic shifting is not presently available for triples. With a compact ring (which is available with Di) a 34/32 ratio will be similar to what is presently available with Shimano's current road triple (stock Shimano road triple can be geared down to a 30/28 ratio).

If for some reason electronic shifting can't work well with triples that may be the bigger threat. Perhaps Shimano is thinking that in time cable shifting will be replaced entirely by electronic.

[Chance]

the gearing jumps would be ridiculous without triples.

i hope not.
Riding a Shimano triple and a double on consecutive days in hills reminded me just how real this disadvantage can feel. When downshifting from 53 to 39 (a mere 14 tooth) it felt huge compared to a 52 to 42 (a 10 tooth) downshift. It took a little time to readjust to letting my cadence drop lower before shifting out of big ring.

It's no big deal since double shifting can solve the problem but when rolling a hill the tighter gearing is a lot nicer to have.

[Pete Mckeon]

but most in their 30a have grown up with the compact.

Gear wise it is very useful but for me the Campy triple or Shimano triple are my first choice for long week rides in the mountains.

I did ride a compact at the RTR LAST YEAR. It worked fine but I did not know a bike could move forward at such a slow speed :(


PETE

[palincss]

It's possible that these larger 30T and 32T cogs will be offered in large part because electronic shifting is not presently available for triples. With a compact ring (which is available with Di) a 34/32 ratio will be similar to what is presently available with Shimano's current road triple (stock Shimano road triple can be geared down to a 30/28 ratio).

If for some reason electronic shifting can't work well with triples that may be the bigger threat. Perhaps Shimano is thinking that in time cable shifting will be replaced entirely by electronic.

I know many people who use large rear sprockets with current drive trains. None has ever used, or even considered, electronic shifting. Many, in fact, use triples: often compact 110/74 triples. And even Shimano 130/74 "road" triples can be equipped with a 24T granny ring.

This is doing nothing more than restoring the status quo ante, as 30T and greater were widely available with Shimano 7, 8 and 9.

[Chance]

I know many people who use large rear sprockets with current drive trains. None has ever used, or even considered, electronic shifting. Many, in fact, use triples: often compact 110/74 triples. And even Shimano 130/74 "road" triples can be equipped with a 24T granny ring.

This is doing nothing more than restoring the status quo ante, as 30T and greater were widely available with Shimano 7, 8 and 9.
In my opinion major companies like Shimano try to market fully integrated groups like Ultegra or 105 so the buyer doesn’t have to end up with a hodgepodge of parts to achieve his equipment goals. The less knowledgeable rider/buyer (who make a large part of the bike business) also knows that when they stick to a group everything should work perfectly because they were designed and integrated that way. From Shimano’s perspective an Ultegra group is marketed to use everything Ultegra right down to the cassette and rear derailleur even though we all know from experience that substitutes can be made to work just fine.

Regarding your 30T reference: On 9-speed the largest cog cassette offered as a “road group” was 12-27 for Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105. And rear derailleurs were “officially” rated for a maximum of 27T largest cog. That we could use a 30T from a MTB group or aftermarket is a different point altogether. Perhaps my memory is wrong but 7 and 8 speed road groups were “officially” no bigger than 27T max cog. If anything 10-speed went up to a 28T large cog so it’s hard to follow why Shimano has to “restore” anything in this area.

There is no doubt that there are a lot of riders like those you mention that need or want compact triples along with MTB-size cassettes. However, these make up a very small part of the “road” business and it’s doubtful Shimano would tailor a road group just for them. They can use cable-operated MTB components already if deemed necessary. On the other hand if there is anything that needs to be restored (within the context of a fully integrated road group) is the gearing gap left by the absence of an electronic triple. That was the main point of my post.

[oldpotatoe]

In my opinion major companies like Shimano try to market fully integrated groups like Ultegra or 105 so the buyer doesn’t have to end up with a hodgepodge of parts to achieve his equipment goals. The less knowledgeable rider/buyer (who make a large part of the bike business) also knows that when they stick to a group everything should work perfectly because they were designed and integrated that way. From Shimano’s perspective an Ultegra group is marketed to use everything Ultegra right down to the cassette and rear derailleur even though we all know from experience that substitutes can be made to work just fine.

Regarding your 30T reference: On 9-speed the largest cog cassette offered as a “road group” was 12-27 for Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105. And rear derailleurs were “officially” rated for a maximum of 27T largest cog. That we could use a 30T from a MTB group or aftermarket is a different point altogether. Perhaps my memory is wrong but 7 and 8 speed road groups were “officially” no bigger than 27T max cog. If anything 10-speed went up to a 28T large cog so it’s hard to follow why Shimano has to “restore” anything in this area.

There is no doubt that there are a lot of riders like those you mention that need or want compact triples along with MTB-size cassettes. However, these make up a very small part of the “road” business and it’s doubtful Shimano would tailor a road group just for them. They can use cable-operated MTB components already if deemed necessary. On the other hand if there is anything that needs to be restored (within the context of a fully integrated road group) is the gearing gap left by the absence of an electronic triple. That was the main point of my post.

shimano has always started at the high end with anything new as well. I think seeing that there is no mechanical DA triple, I doubt there will be a electronic triple.

[palincss]

Regarding your 30T reference: On 9-speed the largest cog cassette offered as a “road group” was 12-27 for Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105. And rear derailleurs were “officially” rated for a maximum of 27T largest cog. That we could use a 30T from a MTB group or aftermarket is a different point altogether. Perhaps my memory is wrong but 7 and 8 speed road groups were “officially” no bigger than 27T max cog. If anything 10-speed went up to a 28T large cog so it’s hard to follow why Shimano has to “restore” anything in this area.

There is no doubt that there are a lot of riders like those you mention that need or want compact triples along with MTB-size cassettes. However, these make up a very small part of the “road” business and it’s doubtful Shimano would tailor a road group just for them. They can use cable-operated MTB components already if deemed necessary. On the other hand if there is anything that needs to be restored (within the context of a fully integrated road group) is the gearing gap left by the absence of an electronic triple. That was the main point of my post.

Shimano 7 had 13-30 and 13-34 cassettes. Shimano 8 had 12-32. Shimano 9 had 11-32, 11-34 and 12-36, and you could customize a 9 speed 12-27 to make a 13-30.

That all ended with 10. Until just last year, Shimano had nothing in 10 speed that went as far as 30, never mind beyond, since their MTB groups were still 9. IRD and SRAM stepped into the gap with wide-range 10 speed cassettes. SRAM in fact tailored a group just for people who wanted compact doubles along with MTB-sized cassettes (Apex) that generated quite a lot of excitement in the bicycling magazines and has appeared as OEM on many new bicycles.

I'd wager the number of people using SRAM Apex is many times greater than the number disappointed because there is no electronic triple. In fact, I'm confident the number of SRAM Apex users alone is much greater than the market for all electronic shifting at current prices.

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano 7 had 13-30 and 13-34 cassettes. Shimano 8 had 12-32. Shimano 9 had 11-32, 11-34 and 12-36, and you could customize a 9 speed 12-27 to make a 13-30.

That all ended with 10. Until just last year, Shimano had nothing in 10 speed that went as far as 30, never mind beyond, since their MTB groups were still 9. IRD and SRAM stepped into the gap with wide-range 10 speed cassettes. SRAM in fact tailored a group just for people who wanted compact triples along with MTB-sized cassettes (Apex) that generated quite a lot of excitement in the bicycling magazines and has appeared as OEM on many new bicycles.

I'd wager the number of people using SRAM Apex is many times greater than the number disappointed because there is no electronic triple. In fact, I'm confident the number of SRAM Apex users alone is much greater than the market for all electronic shifting at current prices.

I'm sure you meant 'Compact', not Compact triple' for Apex..one thing that sram has not done, to their detriment, is offer a road triple at any level...along with a lot of other things, IMHO.

kudos to shimano tho, for quickly entering the 10s MTB market with lotsa 10s cogsets, like SLX.

[Chance]

Shimano 9 had 11-32, 11-34 and 12-36, and you could customize a 9 speed 12-27 to make a 13-30.
These 11-32, 11-34, and 12-36 are or were part of the mountain bike groups and were never part of the "ROAD" groups. What’s so confusing about that?

It's not to say they could not be made to work with road shifters, but that doesn't make them part of the original road group. Yes, no doubt these large cassettes were used often with touring and tandem bikes and some single bikes too, but they were not part of the Dura-Ace, Ultegra, or 105 road groups. And mostly they required the MTB rear derailleur. They required a mishmash of parts. You couldn’t go to a bike shop and ask for a complete “Ultegra” group with an 11-34 cassette. It has never existed.

Again, you are debating a different issue in my opinion. The OP made reference to "standard" group offerings that made press recently. Shimano will be offering 30T and 32T “road” cassettes within a standard road group. How that relates to using MTB components to alter a bike is beyond my comprehension of where you are going with this.

[palincss]

I'm sure you meant 'Compact', not Compact triple' for Apex..one thing that sram has not done, to their detriment, is offer a road triple at any level...along with a lot of other things, IMHO.

kudos to shimano tho, for quickly entering the 10s MTB market with lotsa 10s cogsets, like SLX.

You're right. I meant "compact double". A definite "braino".

[Bob Ross]

I doubt there will be a electronic triple.


This makes me sad: If anything could ever convince me to get a triple on my road bike, it would be electronic shifting.

...or a doctor's orders.