Racing against young guns

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I was looking at a local race on BikeReg, and I saw the following notice:

Note: Rule 1K1. Eligibility. .... may compete in any races for their age or younger, subject to category
restrictions but not races exclusively for Under 23s or Juniors.

That means Cat 5 riders over 35 y.o. can enter the Cat 5<35 race.

Am I wrong, or isn't racing in a younger Cat 5 division both riskier (less experienced) and harder (younger and faster)?

[stephenmarklay]

I was looking at a local race on BikeReg, and I saw the following notice:

Note: Rule 1K1. Eligibility. .... may compete in any races for their age or younger, subject to category
restrictions but not races exclusively for Under 23s or Juniors.

That means Cat 5 riders over 35 y.o. can enter the Cat 5<35 race.

Am I wrong, or isn't racing in a younger Cat 5 division both riskier (less experienced) and harder (younger and faster)?

Riskier. I think so. Harder not necessarily. Not sure how it is done everywhere else but I race (not this year) in the open class not masters and I am a master (old guy)

[wasfast]

The "older age,slower rider" analogy is just not universally true. Cat 4/5 certainly can have inexperienced riders, younger riders, slower riders, faster riders. It's a bit of a catch all often as it's the starting point for racing.

If you think older riders 40-60 are slowing down, only a little bit and many can race 1/2's or 3's. Most at these ages have many years of riding, have jobs, families etc and overall a better frontal lobe development than a 20 yo. They take less risks in terms of handling but the overall racing agressiveness is certainly no less.

[Tom]

Not necessarily riskier. You get a lot of athletes transitioning into cycling in the 35+, very strong and thinking 'how hard can this bicycling thing be?' except they have no idea how to ride in a straight line or near someone else. The weird thing is novices get stupider the older they are.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I guess I was thinking of age differences within a particular category, when a race splits a category by age. I'm 34 (racing age 35) and, having come over from triathlon, a newly minted Cat 5. I know plenty of guys in their 60s who can drop me at will, but those guys are racing Cat 3 and up. Among the slower/sketchier racing in Cat 5, my guess is that you'd be less likely to get crashed out by a slightly older crowd (I know I take fewer risks now than when I was 20). On speed, I don't know if one is better off in one group or another.

[Fixed]

stuff can happen in any race
more experience mean being aware of the consequence of crashing and how to avoid. now reading a race and being in the right spot at the right time is the hard part imho
cheers

[Joachim]

One of the most dangerous groups is cat 4/5 35+. I currently race in Masters 35+ 1/2/3 and if I had to start over again, there is no way I will race in 4/5 35+.

[Steve in SLO]

As others have said, risks are there in all age levels, esp at Cat 5. After having been a Cat 3 in younger days, I turned 50 a few years ago, tried a few races and found out the 4/5 races were way easier with the younger guys--the 45+ groups were faster and smarter. Lots of retired guys with kids in college.
As an example, during the Sea Otter circuit race a couple of years ago, with a one minute deficit, our 45+ peleton passed the 35+ peleton en masse about 15 minutes into the race, on a climb, no less.
Racing with the younger guys was kind of fun. I stayed near the front and calmed folks down...kinda like having grandpa on the ride.

[laupsi]

As others have said, risks are there in all age levels, esp at Cat 5. After having been a Cat 3 in younger days, I turned 50 a few years ago, tried a few races and found out the 4/5 races were way easier with the younger guys--the 45+ groups were faster and smarter. Lots of retired guys with kids in college.
As an example, during the Sea Otter circuit race a couple of years ago, with a one minute deficit, our 45+ peleton passed the 35+ peleton en masse about 15 minutes into the race, on a climb, no less.
Racing with the younger guys was kind of fun. I stayed near the front and calmed folks down...kinda like having grandpa on the ride.

to each his own but I would never race in a 4/5 race. better to pay the time and perhaps get the reps in w/the big boys than to risk life and limb, especially at our older, income producing stages in life.

[laupsi]

I guess I was thinking of age differences within a particular category, when a race splits a category by age. I'm 34 (racing age 35) and, having come over from triathlon, a newly minted Cat 5. I know plenty of guys in their 60s who can drop me at will, but those guys are racing Cat 3 and up. Among the slower/sketchier racing in Cat 5, my guess is that you'd be less likely to get crashed out by a slightly older crowd (I know I take fewer risks now than when I was 20). On speed, I don't know if one is better off in one group or another.

w/more riders in the cat 4/5 races, less fitness and less experience you have all the ingredients for crashes. few at this level have the ability to try multiple jumps or make things difficult for the field, it therefore becomes a cattle drive down to the wire and then w/the remaing few laps you get the pile ups. it never fails.

[Joachim]

it therefore becomes a cattle drive down to the wire and then w/the remaing few laps you get the pile ups. it never fails.

+1. And everyone in cat 5 thinks they are a sprinter. I have seen the worst crashes happen when they are sprinting for 15th.

[Sandy]

As others have said, risks are there in all age levels, esp at Cat 5. After having been a Cat 3 in younger days, I turned 50 a few years ago, tried a few races and found out the 4/5 races were way easier with the younger guys--the 45+ groups were faster and smarter. Lots of retired guys with kids in college.
As an example, during the Sea Otter circuit race a couple of years ago, with a one minute deficit, our 45+ peleton passed the 35+ peleton en masse about 15 minutes into the race, on a climb, no less.
Racing with the younger guys was kind of fun. I stayed near the front and calmed folks down...kinda like having grandpa on the ride.

So let me get this right- If I wait until I am 85 and can find a few other 85 year old cyclists dumb enough to ride with me, and we form a tiny 85+ peloton, then if we enter the Sea Otter circuit race, 15 minutes into the race, our small peloton of 85+ will pass en masse the 75+ who will have passed the 65+ who will have passed the 55+......who will have passed the 4/5...who will passed the 1/2/3 which dropped the pros a while back? I will be that fast? My mind is loving this scenario... :)


Speedy Sandy

[Steve in SLO]

Exactly...
and all will be passed by that 100 year old who just broke the hour record for age. He'll be on a fixie.

[Steve in SLO]

to each his own but I would never race in a 4/5 race. better to pay the time and perhaps get the reps in w/the big boys than to risk life and limb, especially at our older, income producing stages in life.
Sounds reasonable, but just how does one jump straight to a cat 3 designation?

[Joachim]

Sounds reasonable, but just how does one jump straight to a cat 3 designation?

You show USA cycling evidence of 3 recent broken collarbones, 2 cracked 4k+ carbon frames and one folded set of Lightweight carbon wheels, ie about the same as the first year in cat 5.

[tv_vt]

Crashes can happen in any race category. Sometimes it's the course, or weather, or mechanical issue. Crazy riders aren't confined to the 'newer' categories (4, 5). Cat 3s are right up there, too, if you're talking under 35. I used to race Cat 4 and Masters 35 at the same time. Masters back then included all categories (1-4), so I never saw any reason to upgrade - and the Masters were definitely faster than the under 35 Cat 4s. I thought the Cat 4 races were pretty relaxed affairs. 35s were a whole different beast - brutal!

[Fixed]

i was a cat 3 manly on the strength of my t.t. at 45 i decided to do masters
i felt better there and i had good teammates one was a former us pro champ i learned a lot from him ,,
cheers :beer:

[Joachim]

Just go out and race. You will see soon enough who are the strong guys and getting in a break is much safer than waiting for the line in a cat 5 race. Other than that, don't race what you can't replace.

[weiwentg]

Crashes can happen in any race category. Sometimes it's the course, or weather, or mechanical issue. Crazy riders aren't confined to the 'newer' categories (4, 5). Cat 3s are right up there, too, if you're talking under 35. I used to race Cat 4 and Masters 35 at the same time. Masters back then included all categories (1-4), so I never saw any reason to upgrade - and the Masters were definitely faster than the under 35 Cat 4s. I thought the Cat 4 races were pretty relaxed affairs. 35s were a whole different beast - brutal!

true. but if I were to get back in, I would just htfu and do Masters. just hang on for as long as possible. having been on the receiving and, unfortunately, initiating ends of cat 4 bonehead maneuvers, I would stay out of it. or do triathlons.

edit: OR, do cyclocross, where if you do something stupid, the worst that could happen is that you crash on grass or sand and get heckled mercilessly.

[laupsi]

Sounds reasonable, but just how does one jump straight to a cat 3 designation?

I was fortunate, at least I think it's good fortune, to have started my racing career about 20 yrs ago. back then there was no cat 5, although there were the annual addition of newbies, me included, there were less folks racing. don't think the sport was that popular then. after a full season of racing cat 4, I upgraded, had to show points and placings, then was granted a cat 3 license.

[laupsi]

Crashes can happen in any race category. Sometimes it's the course, or weather, or mechanical issue. Crazy riders aren't confined to the 'newer' categories (4, 5). Cat 3s are right up there, too, if you're talking under 35. I used to race Cat 4 and Masters 35 at the same time. Masters back then included all categories (1-4), so I never saw any reason to upgrade - and the Masters were definitely faster than the under 35 Cat 4s. I thought the Cat 4 races were pretty relaxed affairs. 35s were a whole different beast - brutal!

in my area, Mid-Atlantic, the Masters 35+ are the safest races out there. (okay maybe 50+ is safer), a few cat 3's, most of us are cat 1/2, we even had some x-pros post. brutal, yes indeed, they are fast but I would not classify them as any more dangerous than sport of bicycle racing itself.

[GregL]

in my area, Mid-Atlantic, the Masters 35+ are the safest races out there. (okay maybe 50+ is safer), a few cat 3's, most of us are cat 1/2, we even had some x-pros post. brutal, yes indeed, they are fast but I would not classify them as any more dangerous than sport of bicycle racing itself.
Same here in CNY. Masters races tend to be fast, hard, and have some very good riders. Most of the riders don't have delusions of grandeur AND they want to stay in one piece to avoid the wrath of significant others and bosses on Monday AM...

- Greg

[BobC]

Oft overlooked is the fact that 4 & 5 have absolutely no tactics to speak of... they remind me of a U6 year old "bumblebee" soccer game (just one big gaggle following each other around).

I would venture that you could race those races with a couple of your teammates and just take turns attacking the crap out of the field.
1. field would be less bunched & more spread out -- which is "generally" safer
2. You are off the front & spend less time in the field --> again "generally" safer
3. lesser riders would be dropped & therefore have less opportunity to cause trouble later on. Plus the field becomes smaller
4. Most importantly: You get a much harder workout in & in the long run become that much stronger. Face it, if you are a 4 and have a job, then chasing the cash prize is stupid. Your only goal is to upgrade as fast as possible.

Just my 2% of a dollar.

- BobC

[HenryA]

The Masters 35+ race will be safer and faster than the 4/5 open. You'll get dropped but probably not crashed.