SRAMpagnolo, has anyone tried it?

[mistermo]

Lennard Zinn says you can mate Campy shifters with a SRAM derailleur. I'd like to use my Campy ergo shifters with a Rival mid cage so that I can get a 32 cog on the back. Has anyone given a SRAMpagnolo system a try? Experience?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/bikes-and-tech/can-you-run-campy-shifters-with-a-sram-drivetrain-sure-why-not_73404

[ergott]

It didn't work for me.

[CNY rider]

SRAM is unique, the more parts of the group you replace with other brands, the better it works!

[oldpotatoe]

Lennard Zinn says you can mate Campy shifters with a SRAM derailleur. I'd like to use my Campy ergo shifters with a Rival mid cage so that I can get a 32 cog on the back. Has anyone given a SRAMpagnolo system a try? Experience?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/bikes-and-tech/can-you-run-campy-shifters-with-a-sram-drivetrain-sure-why-not_73404

Lennard brought that bike it to the shop and showed it to me. I put it into the stand and shifted it around and it sure looked, sounded, like it worked to me. shimano 10s spacing.

You know you can use a Campagnolo Comp RD, and then a 9s shimano cogset, 11-32, 9s chain and that works really well also. Done that a more than a few touring rigs..for people that wanted lever mounted shifting but had a hbar bag..hidden cables. pre shimano 10s hidden and sram.

[Jaq]

SRAM is unique, the more parts of the group you replace with other brands, the better it works!

That was good for a morning laugh. Now it's off to work.

[scottaharper]

I can not speak to the Zinn setup, but this is what I use on my tandem to get Campagnolo shifters to work with wide-range Shimano/SRAM gearing:

http://www.davincitandems.com/comp.html#der

Works great for me. I tried a number of other options to get it to work, but nothing else has been as reliable for me.

Hope it helps,
Scott Harper

[nightfend]

You have to use the 10-speed Campy shifters. The 11-speed won't work with SRAM. That might be the issue some people are having.

[oldpotatoe]

You have to use the 10-speed Campy shifters. The 11-speed won't work with SRAM. That might be the issue some people are having.


Correcto..10 ERGO

[mistermo]

Funny, I just stumbled upon this too:

http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=706

[AngryScientist]

Funny, I just stumbled upon this too:

http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=706

he is a regular poster here too. i also ordered one of those davinci RDs to work with my travel bike, though i have not tried it yet. 9-speed shimano stuff (chains and cassettes) are so inexpensive and easy to find, it will be great if this works out. plus lots of choices for gear combos.

[mistermo]

he is a regular poster here too. i also ordered one of those davinci RDs to work with my travel bike, though i have not tried it yet. 9-speed shimano stuff (chains and cassettes) are so inexpensive and easy to find, it will be great if this works out. plus lots of choices for gear combos.
Oh, yeah. Didn't notice that it was 9s, not 10s.

[GRAVELBIKE]

11s Ergo will work with 9s Shimano w/o the use of adapters, etc.
10s Ergo will work with 8s Shimano w/o the use of adapters, etc.

The da Vinci-modified SRAM rear mech mentioned in this thread will work with 10s Ergo or 10s Shimano levers and 9s Shimano/SRAM cassettes.

[Dave]

I've posted this several times before. Campy 10 shifters only pull 2.5mm for the first five shifts and the SRAM RD needs 3mm pulls. The shortfall should have you closer to the 5th cog than the intended 6th after those first five shifts.

Mixing RDs that require uniform pull with shifters that have nonuniform pulls isn't wise. Campy pulls are 2.5mm five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice.

[rustychisel]

Campy pulls are 2.5mm five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice.

Crikey! Must make it bloody hard to reel in your fish!!

[mistermo]

Campy pulls are 2.5mm five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice.

Wouldn't this mean that ANY of the workarounds out there (Jtek, Davinci, changed cable routing on shimano) wouldn't work?

[oldpotatoe]

Wouldn't this mean that ANY of the workarounds out there (Jtek, Davinci, changed cable routing on shimano) wouldn't work?

This Friday I'm going to try it with a Centaur bike(levers), add a Red RD and shimano wheel..I'll report back.

Did it Thursday evening...even with a coupla beers in me------

OK apologies to Dave up front.

I'm an 'operator', flew fighters in the USN..yes, I understand, sorta, what a 'bernoulli' is but an operator, not a designer. Business major in college.

Same for bike stuff, not a measurer, I know how the stuff works, how to set it up. I don't measure cable pull per click, etc, don't even know what it is BUT

No axe to grind, I don't even like sram crap BUT

Red rear der, 2009 Centaur(new shape) 10s ERGO, Campagnolo chain, 6700
10s cogset(12-25)...


geee, it's worked really well. Rode it and it works as well as just about anything, like a half worn chain on a 6700 cogset...shifts up, shifts down, doesn't hang up, no delay, doesn't search....so I will say again, yep, it works..

Sorry Dave....

[GRAVELBIKE]

This Friday I'm going to try it with a Centaur bike(levers), add a Red RD and shimano wheel..I'll report back.

Just make sure that you wear gloves when you touch that SRAM stuff. ;)

[velotel]

SRAM is unique, the more parts of the group you replace with other brands, the better it works!
Nothing better than a good laugh. That's hilarious! Thanks

[firerescuefin]

This Friday I'm going to try it with a Centaur bike(levers), add a Red RD and shimano wheel..I'll report back.

Don't confuse the concept of cross pollenization with cross contamination ;)

[Ralph]

I understand trying to use up some parts, making them work together, without going out and buying stuff.

But if you want to use a 10's cassette with 32 tooth cog with Campy stuff....it's simple. Campy shifters with long or mid cage RD, and IRD 12-32.

[mistermo]

I understand trying to use up some parts, making them work together, without going out and buying stuff.

But if you want to use a 10's cassette with 32 tooth cog with Campy stuff....it's simple. Campy shifters with long or mid cage RD, and IRD 12-32.

Campy long derailleurs are claimed to go to "only" 29. I saw that IRD 12-32 cassette on ebay and asked them it it would work. Their answer could be summarized as "we hope so".

[Ralph]

I have made a Campy mid cage work with a 13-34 before. Double front. Touring frame with drop out hanger about 1/16" longer than most "racing" bikes.

But I'm experienced at adjusting rear derailleur screw and cutting chain length so big to big still works, and upper pulley is pulled out of way of big rear cog.

[Ramjm_2000]

Works just fine for me. Rival Short cage + Miche 10 speed cassette (shimano spacing) + Wipperman Chain + Centaur 10 speed shifters. Didn't think it would but it does. I have a bit of over shifting in 1 or 2 gears (that self corrects) but other wise good to go without any adapters. This setup will be going on my next Cross frame.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/ramjm_2000/Spicer/48531a6b.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Just make sure that you wear gloves when you touch that SRAM stuff. ;)


Mask too, eye protection, sense of humor...set!!!

[palincss]

he is a regular poster here too. i also ordered one of those davinci RDs to work with my travel bike, though i have not tried it yet. 9-speed shimano stuff (chains and cassettes) are so inexpensive and easy to find, it will be great if this works out. plus lots of choices for gear combos.

And, Shimano 9 is customizable. Most of my bikes use a custom Shimano 9 spd 13-30 cassette.

[Dave]

Wouldn't this mean that ANY of the workarounds out there (Jtek, Davinci, changed cable routing on shimano) wouldn't work?

Even J-tek admits that their shiftmate will not make for perfect shifting. The reason is simple. Any device that attempts to increase Campy's average 2.8mm cable pull will also increase the 3mm and 3.5mm pulls to make those shifts larger than desired.

I'm a mechanical engineer (since 1981) and I don't believe in magic. If you take the chain off the bike and watch the upper pulley alignment with the SRAM RD, it should be poorly aligned after those first five shifts.

People also say that a 10 speed Campy RD works fine with 11 speed, but it does lag a bit, due to a slightly smaller actuation ratio. I've corrected that by grinding the cable clamp bolt down to the root of the threads to shorten the lever arm slightly and increase the actuation ratio. There's no magic to that fix.

I've got no idea what Davinci is doing to modify the SRAM RD, and can't comment on that. A proper modification would make the RD work more like Shimano and Campy, responding to nonuniform pulls with uniform RD movement. Simply changing the actuation ratio is not the answer.

[oldpotatoe]

Just make sure that you wear gloves when you touch that SRAM stuff. ;)

opps double post-sorry.

[GRAVELBIKE]

More food for thought:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946 (Campag 11s shifting 9s Shimano)

http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/2012/03/elephant-v2.html (Campag 10s levers shifting 8s Shimano)

[GPrince]

Link posted above has good info ... I run 10s Campy levers, 8s Shimano drive train...works great

[mistermo]

This Friday I'm going to try it with a Centaur bike(levers), add a Red RD and shimano wheel..I'll report back.

Red rear der, 2009 Centaur(new shape) 10s ERGO, Campagnolo chain, 6700
10s cogset(12-25)...

geee, it's worked really well. Rode it and it works as well as just about anything, like a half worn chain on a 6700 cogset...shifts up, shifts down, doesn't hang up, no delay, doesn't search....so I will say again, yep, it works..


Sorry, confused here. You're going to do this (today, Friday), or you've already done it (on Thursday)?

[oldpotatoe]

Sorry, confused here. You're going to do this (today, Friday), or you've already done it (on Thursday)?

Tried it Thursday evening....doesn't working on sram change time? Make you go backwards or sumthin??

[mistermo]

Tried it Thursday evening....doesn't working on sram change time? Make you go backwards or sumthin??
It occurred to me that The Republic might have moved the international date line to Nederland.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Zombie-thread bump...

I currently have the following setup:

Campy Centaur 10s shifers (Gumby-head model)
SRAM 9s 11-32 cassette
KMC 9s chain
daVinci / SRAM X9 rear mech


I'd like to switch over to a 10s Shimano cassette (11-28 or 12-30). Am I correct that a SRAM road mech would allow me to make this switch?

[Dave]

Wouldn't this mean that ANY of the workarounds out there (Jtek, Davinci, changed cable routing on shimano) wouldn't work?

Bingo. No method that merely changes the actuation ratio will magically change the shifter pulls to be uniform.

A change in actuation ratio works with Shimano/Campy mixes because both brands use similar nonuniform pulls that get larger toward the larger cog shifts.

[mistermo]

On my road bike this summer, I ran the Campy Centaur 'gumby' 10s levers mated to a SRAM Force RD, with a 11-27 SRAM 10s cassette. It may not have been flawless shifting (whatever that means), but it worked fine and I rode plenty of miles with it. No issues.

Later on, I put the Centaur levers on a gravel bike with an Rival RD and an 11-32 cassette. I didn't ride this bike much, but it didn't shift into the 50-11 or 34-11 cog. I didn't ride the bike much and didn't try to fix it, so I don't know if it was just out of adjustment or if it was a result of the system mismatch.

[roydyates]

Bingo. No method that merely changes the actuation ratio. Will magically change the shifter pulls to be uniform.

A change in actuation ratio works with Shimano/Campy mixes because both brands use similar nonuniform pulls that get larger toward the larger cog shifts.
I was surprised to learn Campy uses non-uniform pulls. Now I'm astonished to hear that shimano also is non-uniform, but in the same proportions! Is this exact or just rough? So I have two questions:

Are these non-uniform pulls documented somewhere?

Is there something about RD geometry that necessitates nonuniform pull?

[esldude]

Anyone used these products? A different spacer set to properly space Shimano cogs and hubs to work with Campy shifters/derailleurs.

http://wheelsmfg.com/products/rear-drivetrain/cassette-conversions.html

And this one is a Shimano fitting cassette already set up with spacing for use of Campy shifters/derailleurs.

http://www.probikekit.com/us/ambrosio-shimano-fit-with-campagnolo-spacing-cassette-10-speed.html


Below is a link on spacing dimensions for Campy cassettes I have found useful.


http://www.cycling-inform.com/equipment/179-campagnolo-10-speed-cassettes-and-spacers-demystified

There is a link to a pdf on this page with Campy spacing details.

[Ralph]

The RD has to move the chain from the top of one cog to the top of the next cog. As the cogs get larger, that distance changes. It's not just about the distance between cogs, but from the top of one to another. Also campy 10's has 3 different spaces between the cogs, and depending on whether loose cog or with cogs on carriers, may have 3 different width spacers.

[efuentes]

I regulary run 10S campy shifters with shimano 9s cass/derr without much fuzz, maybe not perfect but can have a great lever shape with my all old 9s stuff, someday I will go 11 speed campy everywhere, I will just need 9 new rear hubs and about 7 cassetes :eek:

[oldpotatoe]

Zombie-thread bump...

I currently have the following setup:

Campy Centaur 10s shifers (Gumby-head model)
SRAM 9s 11-32 cassette
KMC 9s chain
daVinci / SRAM X9 rear mech


I'd like to switch over to a 10s Shimano cassette (11-28 or 12-30). Am I correct that a SRAM road mech would allow me to make this switch?

I know that Campagnolo 10s shifters mated with a sram road, meaning 10s, RD does shift shimano(sram) 10s spacing. NOT a sram 9s RD tho, different ball game.

[witcombusa]

I regulary run 10S campy shifters with shimano 9s cass/derr without much fuzz, maybe not perfect but can have a great lever shape with my all old 9s stuff, someday I will go 11 speed campy everywhere, I will just need 9 new rear hubs and about 7 cassetes :eek:

Don't worry, by then something "newer, better, lighter, shinier" will turn up that you'll have to get....

[GRAVELBIKE]

I know that Campagnolo 10s shifters mated with a sram road, meaning 10s, RD does shift shimano(sram) 10s spacing. NOT a sram 9s RD tho, different ball game.

So something like a Force, Rival, or Apex rear mech would do the trick, right?

[Dave]

So something like a Force, Rival, or Apex rear mech would do the trick, right?

It should work as I have described - undershifting substantially on the first five shifts, then correctly for two shifts and overshifting on the last two.

You should get better results with a Campy RD and a J-tek shiftmate. The RD would then respond to the cable pulls properly and the shiftmate would reduce the movements to match the closer spaced Shimano cassette.

[svelocity]

I've seen much written about the rear derailleur but is the front derailleur a non-issue?

Can you use any 9spd Shimano FD with 9spd Shimano crankset with Campy 10spd ergo shifters?

Cheers!

[GRAVELBIKE]

Anyone used these products? A different spacer set to properly space Shimano cogs and hubs to work with Campy shifters/derailleurs.

http://wheelsmfg.com/products/rear-drivetrain/cassette-conversions.html

And this one is a Shimano fitting cassette already set up with spacing for use of Campy shifters/derailleurs.

http://www.probikekit.com/us/ambrosio-shimano-fit-with-campagnolo-spacing-cassette-10-speed.html


Below is a link on spacing dimensions for Campy cassettes I have found useful.


http://www.cycling-inform.com/equipment/179-campagnolo-10-speed-cassettes-and-spacers-demystified

There is a link to a pdf on this page with Campy spacing details.

Do all these cassettes use separate cogs? My hubs have alloy freehub bodies (see below), so I'd be concerned about gouging the body, etc.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8302/8004983134_a444e97d78.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/justridingalong/8004983134/)

[oldpotatoe]

So something like a Force, Rival, or Apex rear mech would do the trick, right?

Yep...

'Gumby levers', just got that.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Yep...

'Gumby levers', just got that.

I'm Gumby, dammit!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_idrfIMj4k9M/TLiZRrYNf3I/AAAAAAAAAXI/uKjpGvOGSw8/s400/EddieMurphy-Gumby.jpg

:)

[esldude]

Do all these cassettes use separate cogs? My hubs have alloy freehub bodies (see below), so I'd be concerned about gouging the body, etc.



The ten speed Campy Record has a total of 5 spacers. The largest three cogs are connected in pairs, and the smallest pair fit without a spacer between. My understanding is the conversion simply lets you put different spacers between Shimano cogs, so there should be no difference in how it fits otherwise. The spacing has just been changed to work with Campy pull spacing.

As for Ambrosia cassettes, I don't know, but would guess similar construction.

Though I have used neither product, was curious if anyone else had. Such a thing might be useful to me in the future.

[Dave]

Using loose cogs with aluminum Shimano splines is asking for trouble. Shimano does not make an aluminum cassette body for a good reason. They only offer steel or Ti, to avoid gouging problems, since the splines are very shallow.

As for that link to the spacers used on Campy cassettes, it is misleading. The spacers between the groups of cogs don't tell you a thing about the actual cog spacing. There should only be one spacer that creates a small increase in the cog spacing. That's the 2.55mm spacer. Other than that, the cog should be uniformly spaced. with 1.72mm cogs and 2.4mm spacers, to create 4.12mm spacing.

[Pete Mckeon]

Expert on this stuff and a "go to" for specified over the years/ PETE:)


Using loose cogs with aluminum Shimano splines is asking for trouble. Shimano does not make an aluminum cassette body for a good reason. They only offer steel or Ti, to avoid gouging problems, since the splines are very shallow.

As for that link to the spacers used on Campy cassettes, it is misleading. The spacers between the groups of cogs don't tell you a thing about the actual cog spacing. There should only be one spacer that creates a small increase in the cog spacing. That's the 2.55mm spacer. Other than that, the cog should be uniformly spaced. with 1.72mm cogs and 2.4mm spacers, to create 4.12mm spacing.

[Pete Mckeon]

:help: i hope to see him WHEN i next visit the area. pete


Lennard brought that bike it to the shop and showed it to me. I put it into the stand and shifted it around and it sure looked, sounded, like it worked to me. shimano 10s spacing.

You know you can use a Campagnolo Comp RD, and then a 9s shimano cogset, 11-32, 9s chain and that works really well also. Done that a more than a few touring rigs..for people that wanted lever mounted shifting but had a hbar bag..hidden cables. pre shimano 10s hidden and sram.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Lennard brought that bike it to the shop and showed it to me. I put it into the stand and shifted it around and it sure looked, sounded, like it worked to me. shimano 10s spacing.

You know you can use a Campagnolo Comp RD, and then a 9s shimano cogset, 11-32, 9s chain and that works really well also. Done that a more than a few touring rigs..for people that wanted lever mounted shifting but had a hbar bag..hidden cables. pre shimano 10s hidden and sram.

With 10s Campy shifters?

[oldpotatoe]

With 10s Campy shifters?

"You know you can use a Campagnolo Comp RD, and then a 9s shimano cogset, 11-32, 9s chain and that works really well also. Done that a more than a few touring rigs..for people that wanted lever mounted shifting but had a hbar bag..hidden cables. pre shimano 10s hidden and sram."

Yes, the ctr cog to ctr cog differences between Campagnolo 10s and shimano 9s is really small..smaller than with Campag 10s and shimano 10s.