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MattTuck
03-06-2012, 05:30 PM
What group would you all recommend to someone for durability and less required maintenance/wearing out of stuff?

I have an 8 sp. ultegra group that I've done virtually no maintenance on except for one new chain and cassette and ocassional tune ups. Nothing major has been replaced. Been pretty happy with that.

If you were looking at a current group, do any jump out as winning in the durability department? I'd still like shifting on par with my ultegra. (I'm agnostic with regard to campy/sram/shimano, just want something that will last and shifts decent)

gasman
03-06-2012, 05:33 PM
Hard to beat Ultegra. I have 9 speed on 2 bikes and experience is as yours. It works and lasts.

Steve in SLO
03-06-2012, 05:33 PM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.

MattTuck
03-06-2012, 05:35 PM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.

Agreed with regard to decades long durability.... DT is probably the way to go. For the purposes of this thread, I do like the convenience of brifters and not having to be an internet detective to hunt the items down.

biker72
03-06-2012, 05:38 PM
I had Ultegra 9 speed on a 2005 Trek 2100. I changed chains once in 20k miles. New owner of the bike ,(Sept. 2011), hasn't changed anything.

I haven't had my Campy stuff long enough to compare.

Fixed
03-06-2012, 05:38 PM
i have 7400 that i have been waiting to replace for 10 years
still works why replace ?
cheers :beer:

witcombusa
03-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.


It may well beat them in shear durability but not shifting performance!


Agree that indexed DT shifter will require less tweaking, lighter and cheaper too.

oliver1850
03-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Not exactly current, but you can still find most of the group new:

I don't think you can beat 2000-2006 Campy 10. I prefer Centaur to Chorus/Record because it's devoid of carbon bits.

witcombusa
03-06-2012, 05:41 PM
i have 7400 that i have been waiting to replace for 10 years
still works why replace ?
cheers :beer:


Yes, this and Superbe Pro are some of my very favorite kit! :beer:

Fixed
03-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.
steve your post made me think :rolleyes:
was that not enough
yeah i know
people missed
shifts sometimes
but anyones
wheel fit .
cheers :beer:

oldpotatoe
03-06-2012, 05:42 PM
What group would you all recommend to someone for durability and less required maintenance/wearing out of stuff?

I have an 8 sp. ultegra group that I've done virtually no maintenance on except for one new chain and cassette and ocassional tune ups. Nothing major has been replaced. Been pretty happy with that.

If you were looking at a current group, do any jump out as winning in the durability department? I'd still like shifting on par with my ultegra. (I'm agnostic with regard to campy/sram/shimano, just want something that will last and shifts decent)


105 or Veloce...all the 'stuff' of that above it w/o the whizbangery.

Iffa ya gotta go up one, then Centaur ALU or Ultegra.

christian
03-06-2012, 05:44 PM
I have 2006 Centaur on one of my bikes, and it seems pretty indestructible. That said, I've had serious trouble killing some ~1990 600 Tricolor and have even been utterly defeated at making mid-nineties 9-sp Campy Veloce do anything wrong either.

Most of the stuff is pretty good these days. But if I had to pick a post-Nuclear meltdown group, I think I'd go with Dura-Ace 7700 with d/t shifters and a 7410 crank and bb.

Fixed
03-06-2012, 05:50 PM
Most of the stuff is pretty good these days. But if I had to pick a post-Nuclear meltdown group, I think I'd go with Dura-Ace 7700 with d/t shifters and a 7410 crank and bb.
nice picks my last race set up
imho
cheers

stien
03-06-2012, 06:04 PM
Well... if we're gonna nitpick...in the long run I've seen way more Shimano shifters bite the dust, so I would say Campy 8 speed ergo.

As for modern groups, nobody has that many miles on them yet! Maybe a few years max.

Marcusaurelius
03-06-2012, 06:07 PM
I would say the 2001-2002 campagnolo chorus was very well made. It contains no carbon and relies on metal and bearings.

Ti Designs
03-06-2012, 06:22 PM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.


My first racing bike came with a 1968 Nuovo Record bottom bracket - used. That bottom bracket followed me from bike to bike until I purchased my Dura-Ace 9-speed kit. Is 1/4 million miles a lot for a bike part???

Louis
03-06-2012, 07:06 PM
I'd say Shimano 105. The BB's and hubs seem to last a very long time, even in bad conditions. (as do the non-consumables like derailleurs)

Bob Loblaw
03-06-2012, 08:28 PM
I have yet to actually break or wear out an Shimano or campy brifter. I have had to rebuild my campy brifters, but it wasnt difficult and the parts were cheap. If I was to choose one group to ride for the next 20 years, the rebuildability would lean me towards campy 10s, but I am pretty convinced both Shimano and campy are excellent choices.

BL

stephenmarklay
03-06-2012, 08:33 PM
105 or Veloce...all the 'stuff' of that above it w/o the whizbangery.

Iffa ya gotta go up one, then Centaur ALU or Ultegra.

I just put NOS 105sc on my last build. I am really in vogue.

Black Dog
03-06-2012, 09:30 PM
Well, for robust design and rebuild-ability the new campy 11 speed stuff may have what it takes. The rear derailleur is fully rebuild-able, but will face plates and pivot bushings be available are will replacement be cheaper? The brifters, by inference of the design improvements, should last longer than the 10 speed stuff before a rebuild is needed. Brakes and Front Derailleurs never seem to wear out. Based on explicit serviceability I would give the nod to Campy. However, I have some 25 year old dura-ace and 12 year old dura-ace that runs like butter. My 15 year old campy stuff has held up even better. If a part is not rebuild-able and does not have a life time warranty then caveat emptor.

AngryScientist
03-06-2012, 09:38 PM
for practical purposes, it's hard to beat chorus or record, or dura ace any year.

sure, some folks will have nostalgia for the things that worked very well for them in the past, but if you're building now, i say go with a modern group, definitely mechanical shifting, and ride the hell out of it.

AngryScientist
03-06-2012, 09:40 PM
I have an 8 sp. ultegra group that I've done virtually no maintenance on except for one new chain and cassette and ocassional tune ups.

i know we all have different definitions of how durable components should be, but how many miles can you possibly have on this group with only one chain change??

fil
03-06-2012, 09:45 PM
recent write up by chris smith of lazer (http://helmeteering.tumblr.com/post/18792325147/product-review-campy-for-cx)

MattTuck
03-06-2012, 09:53 PM
i know we all have different definitions of how durable components should be, but how many miles can you possibly have on this group with only one chain change??

Probably 12,000-15,000. I've had the bike for 10 years. Some years riding 2,500-3,000 miles, other years riding 500, with some in between. Some seasons I kept detailed mileage logs, other seasons, I rode without a computer. With as little maintenance as I've done, I'm quite happy with it.

I don't keep great records of maintenance, and it is possible after a nasty crash that required a new rear wheel, that I got a new cassette and chain then also... (making for 2 new chains/casettes) I was out of it for about a week after that accident, so it's entirely possible.

AngryScientist
03-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Probably 12,000-15,000. I've had the bike for 10 years. Some years riding 2,500-3,000 miles, other years riding 500, with some in between. Some seasons I kept detailed mileage logs, other seasons, I rode without a computer. With as little maintenance as I've done, I'm quite happy with it.

I don't keep great records of maintenance, and it is possible after a nasty crash that required a new rear wheel, that I got a new cassette and chain then also... (making for 2 new chains/casettes) I was out of it for about a week after that accident, so it's entirely possible.

Matt - that's damned impressive then. with 10-11 sp groups, chain changes are quite a bit more frequent, i go 2k on 11-sp chains, no more, but cassettes last longer that way. other than that fact though, i have no reason to believe my current crop of 11-sp chorus and record stuff will not go beyond 15+ thousand miles with only consumable changes...

soupless
03-06-2012, 10:13 PM
I had a bike with Ultegra SL for a few years. Never needed much of anything. Less finicky than DA if you ask me.

dancinkozmo
03-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.

Didnt someone have a saying

"campag nuovo record will shift badly ...forever "

Ive got a 1997 chorus groupset that has been terrific, also another vote for 9 speed 105...use that on my dirt road / commuter bikes...bombproof

texbike
03-06-2012, 10:43 PM
Another vote for 7400. I love the stuff!

Texbike

roydyates
03-06-2012, 10:58 PM
My first racing bike came with a 1968 Nuovo Record bottom bracket - used. That bottom bracket followed me from bike to bike until I purchased my Dura-Ace 9-speed kit. Is 1/4 million miles a lot for a bike part???
Do/did you change the ball bearings in the BB?

GPrince
03-06-2012, 10:59 PM
Ancient Super Record stuff runs forever if you like downtube shifting. 9/10 speed centaur hard to beat. I'm running all 8 speed drivetrain w/modern campy levers. Lasts forever, rebuildable and 8 speed is cheap.

Jaq
03-07-2012, 12:48 AM
Well... if we're gonna nitpick...in the long run I've seen way more Shimano shifters bite the dust, so I would say Campy 8 speed ergo.

As for modern groups, nobody has that many miles on them yet! Maybe a few years max.

+1 on the 8 speed. I've had to do some minor upkeep (rebuild shifters, rear-hub), but the stuff just keeps going and going and going. That being said, I wouldn't mind a 10-speed group, just for the option of bigger cogs on climbs.

jpw
03-07-2012, 04:48 AM
Not to be facetious, but 2 x 5 speed Campy with DT shifters will beat them all.

5x1 with a bar end shifter.

roydyates
03-07-2012, 06:51 AM
5x1 with a bar end shifter.
Clearly the cable is the weak link in your setup. Who's gonna play trump with a 4x1 with lever shift?

After that, we go to a 2x2 no RD setup, say 44-39 up front and 14-19 in the rear and a small stick to move the chain without touching it with your fingers.

soulspinner
03-07-2012, 07:45 AM
I would say the 2001-2002 campagnolo chorus was very well made. It contains no carbon and relies on metal and bearings.

I have this. Over 30 thou on the bb(square taper) two shifter springs, 1 indexer, chainrings, rinse and repeat. Will out live me. :beer: Guess what new group Im buying :rolleyes:

christian
03-07-2012, 08:06 AM
Clearly the cable is the weak link in your setup. Who's gonna play trump with a 4x1 with lever shift?

After that, we go to a 2x2 no RD setup, say 44-39 up front and 14-19 in the rear and a small stick to move the chain without touching it with your fingers.

42x17 fixed. Or walking. :)

Ti Designs
03-07-2012, 11:04 AM
Do/did you change the ball bearings in the BB?

Once a year for all those years. Never felt like it needed it, but my coach was and old school guy who insisted I replaced all the bearings every season. As all the wheels went to 130mm spacing and bottom brackets all became sealed I changed the bearings simply because I had them - I probably still have a dozen sets of Campy 1/4" caged bearings in those little holders...



As for Campy Nuovo/Suprer record shifting badly forever, I don't remember any of the good racers ever complaining about shifting performance. It wash;t something that ever came up. What mattered back then was what the rider had, once the bike was in a gear the shifters didn't matter. I never thought there was any advantage to brifters until I got beaten in a sprint by a guy who shifted to a larger gear in the sprint. If that hadn't pissed me of so much I would probably still using Nuovo Record. Really, not much has changed, the people who complain about shifting performance do so to take the focus off the lacking engine.

rccardr
03-07-2012, 12:26 PM
1) Shimano 6400 series TriColor 600/Ultegra, either the 7 speed or 8 speed versions with DT shifting
2) Shimano 105 1050 series 6 or 7 speed, either the UG or HG version, again with DT's.

Both shift super-smooth and last practically forever. Seen and worked on an amazing number of incredibly abused bikes with those two groups. The stuff may look like it's been dragged through a gravel pit behind a pickup truck but it still shifts nicely and runs well.

Just imagine how long it would last if properly cared for!

oldpotatoe
03-07-2012, 12:37 PM
Once a year for all those years. Never felt like it needed it, but my coach was and old school guy who insisted I replaced all the bearings every season. As all the wheels went to 130mm spacing and bottom brackets all became sealed I changed the bearings simply because I had them - I probably still have a dozen sets of Campy 1/4" caged bearings in those little holders...



As for Campy Nuovo/Suprer record shifting badly forever, I don't remember any of the good racers ever complaining about shifting performance. It wash;t something that ever came up. What mattered back then was what the rider had, once the bike was in a gear the shifters didn't matter. I never thought there was any advantage to brifters until I got beaten in a sprint by a guy who shifted to a larger gear in the sprint. If that hadn't pissed me of so much I would probably still using Nuovo Record. Really, not much has changed, the people who complain about shifting performance do so to take the focus off the lacking engine.


Agree, especially after decent freewheels like DA/shimano 600. A little planning ahead, cycling finesse and shifting skill and it works just fine, thanks.

I have always said that lever mounted shifting was essential for MTB(bouncing around), beginners and racers(only cuz they all got it).

My C-Record, friction, 7s...works really well, can use any chain, any RD, FD, crank, etc. 20 years + old also.

nm87710
03-07-2012, 02:06 PM
If you were looking at a current group, do any jump out as winning in the durability department?

All are good enough.
Good Luck

54ny77
03-07-2012, 02:38 PM
The Rolling Stones are a pretty durable group, although their anodization has clearly worn off. :banana:

http://urbanlegendkampala.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mick-jagger-old_pic4_us1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nFG-KUAAqSI/TS2XDJSDh5I/AAAAAAAAAR8/EEAvBGienGM/s320/keith-richards.jpg

palincss
03-07-2012, 04:44 PM
The operational definition of "Rode Hard and Put Away Wet" I think.

temeyone
03-07-2012, 04:44 PM
I've seen tons of beat-to-dust Campy 8-speed ergo drivetrains still kicking and shifting well. Always impressed by that. Why no votes for SRAM stuff? Is it the fact that they're relatively new, or are there other issues I'm unaware of? Seriously wondering...I've used Force for the last 4 years and had very few issues. Campy is the obvious choice, but what are peoples' thoughts on the upstarts?

oldpotatoe
03-07-2012, 05:02 PM
I've seen tons of beat-to-dust Campy 8-speed ergo drivetrains still kicking and shifting well. Always impressed by that. Why no votes for SRAM stuff? Is it the fact that they're relatively new, or are there other issues I'm unaware of? Seriously wondering...I've used Force for the last 4 years and had very few issues. Campy is the obvious choice, but what are peoples' thoughts on the upstarts?

MY warranty list-sram

-about 2 dozen levers
-about 5 red rear ders
-3-4 BBs, PF BB30
-couple of chainrings
-one broken chain

tsarpepe
03-08-2012, 04:18 AM
I've seen tons of beat-to-dust Campy 8-speed ergo drivetrains still kicking and shifting well. Always impressed by that. Why no votes for SRAM stuff? Is it the fact that they're relatively new, or are there other issues I'm unaware of? Seriously wondering...I've used Force for the last 4 years and had very few issues. Campy is the obvious choice, but what are peoples' thoughts on the upstarts?

For SRAM to get the same reputation as DA and Campy, you need those folks from the 70s, who bought one group with their savings over 5 years, took loving care of it (because it was their only one), and rode it through slick and sleet into the late 90s or 2000s. The legends of Campy and Shimano were made from stories like those above, when a guy brings a bike to a mechanic, with a steel frame that has already disintegrated, but the group is still shifting nicely. Needless to say, you are not going to get this kind of stories from the SRAM generation. There will be different stories (how light! how efficient! how electronic! when is the newest Red-Black-with-Turquoise-accents coming out?!) hence an entirely different kind of reputation.

TimmyB
03-08-2012, 04:59 AM
Why no votes for SRAM stuff? Is it the fact that they're relatively new, or are there other issues I'm unaware of? Seriously wondering...I've used Force for the last 4 years and had very few issues. Because it's the fashionable thing to hate on sram on this board. I have sram (force/red) on a couple bikes. I've never had any issues with any of it. Including gear that has been repeatedly crashed / bent / etc. Less problems than I have ever had with any of the 10s shimano stuff (ultegra/DA). Like anything, YMMV.

temeyone
03-08-2012, 07:50 AM
For SRAM to get the same reputation as DA and Campy, you need those folks from the 70s, who bought one group with their savings over 5 years, took loving care of it (because it was their only one), and rode it through slick and sleet into the late 90s or 2000s. The legends of Campy and Shimano were made from stories like those above, when a guy brings a bike to a mechanic, with a steel frame that has already disintegrated, but the group is still shifting nicely.Totally understood, but I've had plenty of problems with Campy breaking/malfunctioning as well. Broken crank arms, brake lever that was produced with a barb that caused brake cable to snap from premature wear, exploding jockey wheels, etc. Granted, they lasted a VERY long time :cool:

Just trying to provide a counterpoint, but totally understanding why everyone feels the way they do.

Carbon certainly doesn't make it through crashes with the same panache, I'll readily admit that.

gdw
03-08-2012, 11:06 AM
Sram. My town bike/loaner has an original 9.0 rear derailleur and 8 speed twist shifters from the late 90's. Its survived years of harsh abuse on and off road in Colorado and Utah. The current pulleys look like Chinese throwing stars but the rear derailleur refuses to die and still works perfectly. The shifters from the 9.0, Plasma, Attack days are one of the best cycling products ever made. Simple, reliable, easy to maintain and rebuild...bombproof. It's fashionable for roadies to bash the new guys but Sram has been around for longer than many of its detractors realize.

retrogrouchy
03-08-2012, 11:55 AM
Once a year for all those years. Never felt like it needed it, but my coach was and old school guy who insisted I replaced all the bearings every season. As all the wheels went to 130mm spacing and bottom brackets all became sealed I changed the bearings simply because I had them - I probably still have a dozen sets of Campy 1/4" caged bearings in those little holders...



As for Campy Nuovo/Suprer record shifting badly forever, I don't remember any of the good racers ever complaining about shifting performance. It wasn't something that ever came up. What mattered back then was what the rider had, once the bike was in a gear the shifters didn't matter. I never thought there was any advantage to brifters until I got beaten in a sprint by a guy who shifted to a larger gear in the sprint. If that hadn't pissed me off so much I would probably still using Nuovo Record. Really, not much has changed, the people who complain about shifting performance do so to take the focus off the lacking engine.

So true! :cool:

retrogrouchy
03-08-2012, 11:56 AM
The Rolling Stones are a pretty durable group, although their anodization has clearly worn off. :banana:

http://urbanlegendkampala.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mick-jagger-old_pic4_us1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nFG-KUAAqSI/TS2XDJSDh5I/AAAAAAAAAR8/EEAvBGienGM/s320/keith-richards.jpg

That's just patina! :banana:

velotel
03-08-2012, 12:00 PM
I rode a mixed Campy group for 15 years with zero problem, zero replacement outside of pads, chains. And it's still going strong for someone else which makes almost 20 years of going strong. My Record group had almost 5 years of use with zero adjustments required, just brake pads. Switched to 11-speed so now it will be on my son's second bike and no doubt with the same reliability.

br995
03-28-2012, 12:55 PM
Why no votes for SRAM stuff? Is it the fact that they're relatively new, or are there other issues I'm unaware of? Seriously wondering...I've used Force for the last 4 years and had very few issues. Campy is the obvious choice, but what are peoples' thoughts on the upstarts?

I've only been riding for 5-6 years, so take that as you will, but I personally know at least 5 people who have had Sram shifters break on them during normal use - some of them have had it happen to more than one. Add to that the fact that my girlfriend's Sram RD literally exploded in a burst of metal last week while CX training and that I have never heard of any friends' Campy or Shimano components spontaneously breaking, and I'd say Sram has a pretty well deserved reputation for poor quality amongst my social circles.

oldpotatoe
03-28-2012, 01:01 PM
I've only been riding for 5-6 years, so take that as you will, but I personally know at least 5 people who have had Sram shifters break on them during normal use - some of them have had it happen to more than one. Add to that the fact that my girlfriend's Sram RD literally exploded in a burst of metal last week while CX training and that I have never heard of any friends' Campy or Shimano components spontaneously breaking, and I'd say Sram has a pretty well deserved reputation for poor quality amongst my social circles.

I'd love to see sram's warranty records..just warrantied my 27 or 28th lever(red).

kceb_cire
03-28-2012, 04:09 PM
I know most of you mentioned road groups, but I have some shimano acera/altus 7 speed on my oldest bike, a Performance M300 mtb that I bought myself while I was in grade school.
I've never changed the cables, never changed the chain, never changed the cassette or rings, never adjusted the ders., and its been 11 years.
Still shifts crisp and accurately every time.

godfrey1112000
03-28-2012, 04:56 PM
The Rolling Stones are a pretty durable group, although their anodization has clearly worn off. :banana:

http://urbanlegendkampala.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mick-jagger-old_pic4_us1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nFG-KUAAqSI/TS2XDJSDh5I/AAAAAAAAAR8/EEAvBGienGM/s320/keith-richards.jpg

:eek:
Here I was going to tell my little story about SRAM Red Vs DA, it is all good for both but this over rides all comments

both of their faces look like the canyons of Solvang and Boulder

Have a nice day :help:

avalonracing
03-28-2012, 05:11 PM
I don't think that anything is tougher on a bike than racing. There really isn't much time to light-shift in a crit or worry about whether it is raining in the middle of a road race. That said, I found the Dura Ace 7700 group crazy reliable. I put many thousands of hard miles on it with just chain and cable replacements.

carlineng
03-28-2012, 05:53 PM
I don't think that anything is tougher on a bike than racing. There really isn't much time to light-shift in a crit or worry about whether it is raining in the middle of a road race. That said, I found the Dura Ace 7700 group crazy reliable. I put many thousands of hard miles on it with just chain and cable replacements.

Everyone in my circles swears by DA-7700. I'd guess that something with downtubes or barcons really takes the cake though...

scooter
03-28-2012, 06:22 PM
Longevity - Campy Nuovo Record, used and abused since 1974.

Worst Groupo - 1992 Shimano Ultegra 8 speed (except for headset)

Durable and well performing - Dura Ace 7700, Campy Chorus and Record 10 speed.

Well performing - Dura Ace 7900 (can't attest to durability, yet; only have 3000 miles on it)

binxnyrwarrsoul
03-28-2012, 06:31 PM
Campy alloy 10 Speed, circa '99-'06. Never a single issue, IME, '04-current. Just goes and goes.

vav
03-28-2012, 06:34 PM
Complete Suntour Edge with DT shifters. On my 1989 Trek 1K. Used, abused, poor maintenance, no maintenance. Charity rides, triathlons, kids trailer hauler in current roll and keeps on going.

AgilisMerlin
03-28-2012, 06:39 PM
Most Durable Group?

anything my kids do not touch, or knock over :eek:
anything i have not crashed on
anything properly cleaned and adjusted
most things Italian
anything someone else has not adjusted


well, here goes....durace 7700, chorus 9spd ergo

0nelove
03-30-2012, 10:07 AM
My all time favorite was DT shifting Shimano 600 7 speed. Just friggin´worked without adjustments practically forever. Still say it shifts better and crisper than any modern group I´ve ridden.

After that, even though Campy Chorus 11 hasn´t been around too long, I imagine it could last virtually forever. I´d give the nod to Chorus over Ultegra because I happen to prefer the "harder" feeling shift of Campy, but Ultegra 9 also seemed bombproof.