what's your threshold?

[vqdriver]

given all the accidents b/n cars and cyclists, and some of the postings regarding underlying resentment towards cyclists by the drivers as well as some courts, i have reservations about the sport and what it means to me every time i put on my kit and head out the driveway. i've been more vigilant and certainly try to be traffic "friendly" when i'm on the road with cars, which in LA is all the time. but i got brushed by a car and then recently had a driver fly by so close the passenger's side mirror hit my leg. no crash but i was definitely startled. there was no reason the driver had to come that close, i was way off to the side and he/she had two open lanes they could have used.

with a wife and two young children at home, i have growing doubts as to how much cycling means to me. it's by no means a lifestyle for me as it is for some others, and if it were more convenient, i'd be perfectly happy just mountain biking.

i don't know what it's going to take to get me off the saddle for good, but my apprehension is growing.

[Louis]

It's not at all clear to me that mountain biking is any safer than riding on the road.

[William]

It's not at all clear to me that mountain biking is any safer than riding on the road.


Well, until Bears, deer, and Squirrels acquire the ability to text while roaming the woods I would say it's a bit safer.





William :)

[Joachim]

I used to ride in a country where you get "bike jacked" at gunpoint. Recently, the naked driving meth addicts in monster trucks have been making me uncomfortable.

[phcollard]

Well, until Bears, deer, and Squirrels acquire the ability to text while roaming the woods I would say it's a bit safer.





William :)

LOL! Post of the day :)

[William]

given all the accidents b/n cars and cyclists, and some of the postings regarding underlying resentment towards cyclists by the drivers as well as some courts, i have reservations about the sport and what it means to me every time i put on my kit and head out the driveway. i've been more vigilant and certainly try to be traffic "friendly" when i'm on the road with cars, which in LA is all the time. but i got brushed by a car and then recently had a driver fly by so close the passenger's side mirror hit my leg. no crash but i was definitely startled. there was no reason the driver had to come that close, i was way off to the side and he/she had two open lanes they could have used.

with a wife and two young children at home, i have growing doubts as to how much cycling means to me. it's by no means a lifestyle for me as it is for some others, and if it were more convenient, i'd be perfectly happy just mountain biking.

i don't know what it's going to take to get me off the saddle for good, but my apprehension is growing.


I have to admit that I've been spending more time off-road recently and I'm really enjoying not having to worry about cars. I miss the speed on the road, but I don't miss the increase in BP due to dolts who don't know how (or care enough) to share the road safely.




William

[vqdriver]

It's not at all clear to me that mountain biking is any safer than riding on the road.

i think you may be mixing up the frequency of accidents to the severity of accidents. for me, i crash waaaay way less on the road, but they tend to be more spectacular in nature when they do occur. and to the original point, at least it's my own fault if i ride off a cliff....

[MattTuck]

Having lived in both the city (boston and seattle) and country (rural New hampshire, upstate NY), I think that it takes much more mental energy to ride in the city. It's not just the cars, it's the constant cross streets, street lights, etc. There are places that I ride in NH that are 20-30 miles without a stop sign.... few cars too.



I can only imagine riding in LA.

I'm not sure I'd do much riding if I lived in LA either... and can certainly empathize with you.


Not that I would relocate my life just for cycling, but any chance you could keep your job and find a place that is a better fit for your lifestyle?

[akelman]

Years back, just before I entered graduate school, I got hit by a car. Hard. I was riding in North Vancouver, near my house, and the driver pulled out of a parking lot without looking. I couldn't stop in time and ended up flipping over the front end of the car before sliding along the pavement for a good ways. I needed some surgery to clean up my left knee, and my shoulder and back have never really been the same since. Anyway, it spooked me, and I mostly stopped riding on the road.

Then I moved to mid-sized, urban area on the East Coast, where the motorists just weren't fond of cyclists (or, to be fair, other motorists). I started riding off-road and loved it. After I finished up my graduate program, I moved to Oklahoma. The roads were pretty empty, the town where we lived was surrounded by nothing for a long, long way, and so I decided to try to get back on the road. Well, people kept throwing cokes and other crap at me, so I found a place to ride off-road and stuck with that. After that, we moved to Denver, where the drivers were typically nicer to bikes, but after a friend of mine got hit, I returned to riding on dirt. Colorado -- even within the city of Denver -- has some pretty good trails, so it worked out just fine. Finally, we moved here, to a small town in NorCal. It's sort of a biking mecca, off-road riding isn't close enough to be compatible with a job and two kids, and so I'm back on the road. I still worry when cars get too close, but things have been okay so far.

That's just a long way of saying that I can totally understand your concerns and that I would recommend finding a place to ride dirt roads or trails for awhile. Riding scared is unsafe, I think, and riding off-road is good fun.

[AngryScientist]

maybe look into more group riding. if you find a group of good people, who have respect for the road and safe riding, i think that can go a long way towards making your time on the road a little more pleasant and safe. cars generally give a group a little more room, and you've always got someone you know and trust to watch your back, literally and figuratively.

[rice rocket]

LA is rather difficult. The urban sprawl is endless. I'm not sure I'd ride in LA either.

[verticaldoug]

I look at it in a completely different way. Rarely do things work out the way I expect. On Dec 7, 1999 I ended up in the windshield of a taxi in Tokyo. My daughter was born 24 hrs earlier. I wasn't paying attention to the road, and pow. My wife was not too happy about that. 3 years ago on a Sunday morning in December, I was walking between Lex and Park in New York City and mugged. I was too busy thinking about getting my christmas shopping done to pay attention when the two guys appeared when I was in the middle of the block.

I have many more examples of when you least expect it, expect it. Since you are riding around expecting to get hit, worrying about getting hit, you probably won't get hit. It is when you start day dreaming and no longer worry about getting hit, that you need to worry. My advice is to keep riding. At least, that is how I rationalize it.

[tannhauser]

Of course one thing isn't "safer" than another, that's silly.

My threshold changes all the time but one thing is clear: the more miles you log in a hostile environment, the greater likelihood you're going to get hit.

[Jaq]

I don't mind LA too much, but you've got to be choosy when and where you ride and just assume everyone's out to kill you.

Yesterday was an oddly hot day and I rode up through Malibu along the PCH; coming back (south), the traffic was bumper to bumper, and with lots of motorcycles splitting traffic, cars were constantly edging over. It was a fairly nerve-wracking, rather low-speed ride.

But one thing I did notice, mostly in cars with single drivers, was the unbelievably huge number of people texting or reading/staring at their phones and iPads. I've seen people texting before - we all have - but never to this degree. It's obviously because traffic's slow, so they figure "what's the harm?"

Hyperbole aside, it was crazy. One shirtless pretty boy in his gazillion-dollar convertible Galaendewagen abruptly started drifting into the bike-lane, about to slow-speed crunch a guy until the rider literally pounded the driver's hood. The driver looked up from his phone and actually started shouting at the rider and his two friends (I was about 30 yards back). And only then did he get back in his lane.

[edl]

...The driver looked up from his phone and actually started shouting at the rider and his two friends (I was about 30 yards back). And only then did he get back in his lane.

But of course! You're talking about LA, where the drivers own the road.

I used to ride PCH out to Malibu a lot, but I've had enough close shaves to where I don't do that ride anymore. On the other hand, PV is just about the best slice of cycling heaven one could ask for. I wish I lived there and could somehow only work afternoons or evenings.

[54ny77]

In LA you could get killed by people who aren't intending to do so. "Woops, my bad! Sorry!"

Here in NYC area, people actually *are* intending to kill you, so it's more the devil-you-know, and you learn to ride within that framework.

That's my $0.02...

I don't mind LA too much, but you've got to be choosy when and where you ride and just assume everyone's out to kill you.

Yesterday was an oddly hot day and I rode up through Malibu along the PCH; coming back (south), the traffic was bumper to bumper, and with lots of motorcycles splitting traffic, cars were constantly edging over. It was a fairly nerve-wracking, rather low-speed ride.

But one thing I did notice, mostly in cars with single drivers, was the unbelievably huge number of people texting or reading/staring at their phones and iPads. I've seen people texting before - we all have - but never to this degree. It's obviously because traffic's slow, so they figure "what's the harm?"

Hyperbole aside, it was crazy. One shirtless pretty boy in his gazillion-dollar convertible Galaendewagen abruptly started drifting into the bike-lane, about to slow-speed crunch a guy until the rider literally pounded the driver's hood. The driver looked up from his phone and actually started shouting at the rider and his two friends (I was about 30 yards back). And only then did he get back in his lane.

[Bob Loblaw]

I raced for UCLA and I can sympathize with the OP. But I am one of the lifestyle guys. My wife got hit by a car in July and at first I was all about helping her get on the road again, getting the new bike, new kit, new helmet, encouraging her. She kept balking and it took me a while to realize getting back on the bike wasn't a matter of when, it was an 'if'.

Anyway I get the op's point. I wish you luck finding your path.

BL

[67-59]

I live in a smaller city (about 100,000), and if I stay right around home or ride South or West from where I live, I can get to some nice low-traffic neighborhoods (think big houses on 5 acre lots), and suburban to rural roads with generally wide shoulders and low to moderate traffic.

Kind of a good news/bad news thing. The good news is that this allows me to log plenty of miles, and feel relatively safe on my bike...and I can do this straight out of my garage -- no hauling the bike on a roof rack. The bad news is twofold: First, to get decent mileage (just short of 5,000 miles last year), I often end up doing multiple loops through my preferred areas. They're nice, safe and all, but the redundancy can get old. Second, if I head in the other directions - which I rarely do - I find a smaller scale version of what some of you folks in bigger cities probably deal with. If my only option was to head in those directions, I'd seriously consider going off-road.

[slowgoing]

I do a lot of riding on the bikepath along the beach between Palos Verdes and Marina Del Rey. Great in the mornings but the crowded afternoons and weekends are not worth the effort much of the time. Sure is nice not having to worry about cars though.

[slowgoing]

double post

[tiretrax]

Dallas is about as unfriendly as one can get. I never ride with headphones, and I am constantly vigilant about cars, dogs, and joggers. I try to ride early in the morning, especially on the weekends, and on a track around the urban lake that includes open roads (the motorists are aware of us, even when they are hostile). I am 99% courteous to the drivers and look them in the eye. There are plenty of distracted soccer moms - they never come to a full stop at stop signs or when making a right on red, so I am constantly at the lookout for them at intersections. So far, no problems for me.

Two years ago, a friend was crossing a major street with a green light. A motorist making a left across his lane took him out, most likely intentionally, and kept going. The police did nothing to investigate even though they had pretty good clues - good description of car and driver, partial plate, broken driver side mirror. How hard would have it been to call body shops and car dealers to find out who was buying a replacement. He's ok, his bike was fixed, and he's still riding.

Everyone I ride with has two or three children, so the exercise and companionship is greatly appreciated. We don't take unnecessary risks - running red lights with traffic, etc. It's a jungle out there, but that doesn't stop me from exploring it.

[biker72]

Dallas is about as unfriendly as one can get. I never ride with headphones, and I am constantly vigilant about cars, dogs, and joggers. I try to ride early in the morning, especially on the weekends, and on a track around the urban lake that includes open roads (the motorists are aware of us, even when they are hostile). I am 99% courteous to the drivers and look them in the eye. There are plenty of distracted soccer moms - they never come to a full stop at stop signs or when making a right on red, so I am constantly at the lookout for them at intersections. So far, no problems for me.
+1
I'll add that I always carry a cell phone when riding.
I can sometimes ride during the day, mainly 9am-3pm. Less traffic then. Early mornings are better for weekends.

If the traffic really bothers you then off road is the way to go.

[hookookadoo]

i don't know what it's going to take to get me off the saddle for good, but my apprehension is growing.

I am in the same camp. I "cope" by sticking to the same semi-safe routes that are heavily focused on moderately low traffic two lane roads. Ultimately I guess it is just a game of low odds and random selection. I agree riding in groups probably improve the odds considerably.

[giverdada]

long time, it seems, since i was really in any of it. my commute has been cut down from 30 minutes to five, and it's all in the opposite direction of traffic. glorious. our mayor is a flaming idiot who hates bicycles, anyone who exercises outside of a football or hockey uniform, and bike lanes. however, i don't usually get stuff thrown at me when i ride, and the near-death oops's are more unintentional than intentional. usually. my threshold used to be pretty high. i could take someone banging their left fender into me, i ripped off people's mirrors as they turned into me while i was flying by, i got pretty used to being invisible and riding like it, even in all my high-vis gear. since reducing my time in traffic fivefold, my threshold is probably much lower. always invisible. always cautious. usually lucky. i wish we could all just get along.

[NRRider]

I got into MTB much more seriously after I was hit the second time (though neither hit was that bad). Did fire roads for the most part, and frankly I think that is THE safest way to ride if your other choice is riding on roads frequented by cars. You also get the benefit of not having to inhale exhaust fumes and seeing some pretty nice natural beauty.

Problem is I got tired of having to load my bike in the car to drive to the start point, as I don't have good MTB trails nearby. Also missed the satisfaction of traveling long distances over a relatively short period of time.

Now I'm back to doing road mostly. Almost exclusively actually. But, I've found safer places/times to ride.

Stay safe.

[rugbysecondrow]

Hard question. I am not a lifestyle guy, I just like to ride. I am not a one trick pony, so no worries for me if I quite riding. I like to MTB as well, so that is an option.

What is spooky about being hit by a car is not so much getting killed, that would suck, but living in some ****ed up state. That would be worse for me, worse for my family so that is what spooks me. At least if I die, life insurance kicks in. :beer:

On a brighter note, I really do enjoy MTBiking and I am going to get back into it more this spring. It is a great way to connect with our great world, stay in shape and hang out with buddies.

My simple answer, enjoy it as long as you can, then do something else and don't look back. In fact, I think that is what I told myself when I went to college. :beer:

[vqdriver]

yeah, i should definitely try to get in more early morning rides.

oddly enough, i've been questioning if sticking to lightly traveled roads is helping or hurting. drivers may not pay me any mind, but they will slow for other cars and not get up the speed to blow my socks off. jerks are also less likely to buzz riders if they know you'll just catch them in a logjam up ahead.

i don't know, i'll probably get over it. but i am not looking forward to another one of those "love taps"

[Orrery]

It's definitely scary. I got hit (nothing serious) on an early morning ride in a relatively low-traffic area of the metro Boston area this fall. Only need one idiot on the road turning left right into you to ruin your morning.

I wish MTB/off-road was more of an option for me. I definitely have been riding less since it happened, which is a pity.

[tannhauser]

I've had some bad luck on "quiet, rural roads". Thugs think they can get away with anything - yelling, throwing shiite, passing close.

[vsefiream]

I only put 1000 miles on the road bike last year mostly commuting back and forth to work. It was mostly uneventfull, some occasional words and gestures but there are a lot of ignorant people around here.
Anyhow, I managed to get 200 miles on the mtn bike last year and that is when I almost lost my life. Now I am not a hunter but you better believe from my encounter last fall, I will be very vigilent of their schedules!!
The ride was a nice 40 mile green way ride with a couple good friends. The trail was a converted rail bed, mostly a flat ride just a lot of resistance from the gravel. We were riding up to a clearing when about 25-35 feet in front of use, 4 hunters unloaded their riffles across the state owned public trail we were riding on into the open field full of deer. We all about had a heart attack and started to make as much noise as we could. They couldn't see use comming due to their total lack of common sense in choosing to fire across a public trail from a blind!! Luckily we were all OK and had a much heightened sense of awareness after that.
So moral of the story is as bad as cars are, you can still get killed by some idiot in the woods!!

[don compton]

given all the accidents b/n cars and cyclists, and some of the postings regarding underlying resentment towards cyclists by the drivers as well as some courts, i have reservations about the sport and what it means to me every time i put on my kit and head out the driveway. i've been more vigilant and certainly try to be traffic "friendly" when i'm on the road with cars, which in LA is all the time. but i got brushed by a car and then recently had a driver fly by so close the passenger's side mirror hit my leg. no crash but i was definitely startled. there was no reason the driver had to come that close, i was way off to the side and he/she had two open lanes they could have used.

with a wife and two young children at home, i have growing doubts as to how much cycling means to me. it's by no means a lifestyle for me as it is for some others, and if it were more convenient, i'd be perfectly happy just mountain biking.

i don't know what it's going to take to get me off the saddle for good, but my apprehension is growing.
I know this will not sit well with the racer crowd, but after riding for 25 years, I started using a mirror. When you are driving your car on a freeway and while in the left lane, you come up to someone going 55-60, do you ever think that that driver has no clue about other drivers near him? Well, I have seen many a "rider in a Kit" riding like there were no cars on the road.
I like my mirror because if I see an open road(especially on curvy downhills) I can let it fly. Conversely, on Hwy 1 in Northern California, if I see a situation where I am holding traffic, I just pull over. Its just not that tough to be a responsible bike rider.
Don C.

[William]

I only put 1000 miles on the road bike last year mostly commuting back and forth to work. It was mostly uneventfull, some occasional words and gestures but there are a lot of ignorant people around here.
Anyhow, I managed to get 200 miles on the mtn bike last year and that is when I almost lost my life. Now I am not a hunter but you better believe from my encounter last fall, I will be very vigilent of their schedules!!
The ride was a nice 40 mile green way ride with a couple good friends. The trail was a converted rail bed, mostly a flat ride just a lot of resistance from the gravel. We were riding up to a clearing when about 25-35 feet in front of use, 4 hunters unloaded their riffles across the state owned public trail we were riding on into the open field full of deer. We all about had a heart attack and started to make as much noise as we could. They couldn't see use comming due to their total lack of common sense in choosing to fire across a public trail from a blind!! Luckily we were all OK and had a much heightened sense of awareness after that.
So moral of the story is as bad as cars are, you can still get killed by some idiot in the woods!!

I am very glad none of you were hurt or worse. MTB has risks as well, but there are many more idiots driving metal missiles then idiot hunters popping rounds across a public trails. That said, protect yourself as best you can at all times.





William

[rustychisel]

I sympathise but very much in the 'they won't beat me' camp, but I completely understand that is a] irrational, b] unfounded in reality, and c] might change.

I'm a mean son of a bitch when I'm cycling, I don't like being harassed and I give it back. I enjoy traffic jamming, and because it's psychological (you have nothing else as a defense) I particularly enjoy riding through/around large multilane roundabouts, head up shoulders out eyeballs snorting with a 'f*** with me and I'm coming through the windscreen to rip your throat out' look. It works; I've been cycling over 40 years and had plenty of crashes but never once been hit by another vehicle.

If I were to be wiped from behind by an inattentive asshat I might be of your mindset.

In The Meantime, listen to Helmet. (hey William, go find the link!!)

[William]

In The Meantime, listen to Helmet. (hey William, go find the link!!)


http://www.crf2.com/images/smilies/headbanger.gif





William :D

[Earl Gray]

...i have reservations about the sport....

This sums up why people (drivers) are aggravated with us (cyclist).

We use the public roads for our "sport". Let cars, motorcycles, basketball teams or any other group use public roads as a practice field or race course and we will be bitchin too.

We have the "right" to be there but they have the right to be annoyed.

[cat6]

I've been in LA for about a year. I rag on the cycling a lot due to the cars, drivers and the attitude. The more I get out on a bike and explore the more I learn (seemingly) safer routes, more bike trails, less crowded residential roads, etc.

I have turned around during a couple of canyon/mountain climbs due to the amount of speeding motorcycles/sports cars, "canyon carving".

Can't complain much about the weather though!

[AgilisMerlin]

When living in Santa Fe, beer bottles were a popular projectile.

Makes me laugh thinking back

[hookookadoo]

It is odd to think the invention of the bicycle ultimately influenced the invention of the automobile which in turn is our worst enemy. As such we are fighting against our own offspring! Sad but true. :crap:

[Earl Gray]

It is odd to think the invention of the bicycle ultimately influenced the invention of the automobile which in turn is our worst enemy. As such we are fighting against our own offspring! Sad but true. :crap:

This is mostly crap. Without cars there would be no roads to ride on. The existence of cars gave us the infrastructure for our playground.

[Black Dog]

The haters will always be there trying to mess with us. That is not scary. What is scary is the massive social addiction to smart phones. Everyone is texting, or browsing, or updating their Facebook status all the time and that includes driving. Our laws seem to protect any negligent behaviours involving the use of a car. My biggest fear is getting hit by someone texting while driving. I now use a strobe type rear light that will grab their attention during the microsecond that look up from that important text message. Over 25 years of riding and this is the first trend that has me afraid for my life. Toothless and unenforced laws as well as a general disregard for the safety and well being of others is a very scary blend.

[rugbysecondrow]

The haters will always be there trying to mess with us. That is not scary. What is scary is the massive social addiction to smart phones. Everyone is texting, or browsing, or updating their Facebook status all the time and that includes driving. Our laws seem to protect any negligent behaviours involving the use of a car. My biggest fear is getting hit by someone texting while driving. I now use a strobe type rear light that will grab their attention during the microsecond that look up from that important text message. Over 25 years of riding and this is the first trend that has me afraid for my life. Toothless and unenforced laws as well as a general disregard for the safety and well being of others is a very scary blend.


I pulled up to a stop light the other day. Looked to the left, a guy reading the newspaper. Looked to the right, a lady reading a magazine. There was something so blatant about it that I thought was eery.

[flydhest]

This is complete crap. Without cars there would be no roads to ride on. The existence of cars gave us the infrastructure for our playground.

Not exactly true from an historical perspective. It is the bicycling lobby that pushed hard for better roads. The dominant transport at the time of the bicycle's invention and proliferation was not cars, but horses and horse-drawn carriages. They cared much less about good road.

Roads existed before cars. Bicycles existed before cars. It is true that the proliferation of the automobile created a lot more roads, but you are just wrong to say that it is "complete crap."

[Earl Gray]

Not exactly true from an historical perspective. It is the bicycling lobby that pushed hard for better roads. The dominant transport at the time of the bicycle's invention and proliferation was not cars, but horses and horse-drawn carriages. They cared much less about good road.

Roads existed before cars. Bicycles existed before cars. It is true that the proliferation of the automobile created a lot more roads, but you are just wrong to say that it is "complete crap."

Point taken and I'll edit to reflect.

[fiamme red]

Without cars there would be no roads to ride on. The existence of cars gave us the infrastructure for our playground.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement

Horatio Earle is known as the "Father of Good Roads." Quoting from Earle's 1929 autobiography: "I often hear now-a-days, the automobile instigated good roads; that the automobile is the parent of good roads. Well, the truth is, the bicycle is the father of the good roads movement in this country."

[Jaq]

This is mostly c--p.

'Morning, sunshine! You want milk with your cornflakes, or is the whizz sufficient?