Genting Climb - What happened to Danielson?

[tv_vt]

Garmin was making noise that Tom Danielson would be at the front on the Genting Highlands climb in the Tour of Langkawi. He finished almost 20 minutes down instead. Failure to deliver the goods or sick or crashed or something else? Certainly not up to the expectations.

[ultraman6970]

Beginning of the season, the other factor is that all the winners of this stage can climb and are specialists, danielson I believe does ok but is not an specialist.

[harryblack]

no offense to OP but what expectations? the guy is a mediocrity (at his pro level)-- if anything, he's overachieved by hanging in some Top 20-15-10... while being utterly anonymous and NO factor in any race of importance since, uh... Tour de Georgia?

TD is simply NOT-- and I predict, never will be (not a bold statement) a first class bike racer whatever his "numbers" claim he "should" be.

[gone]

no offense to OP but what expectations? the guy is a mediocrity (at his pro level)-- if anything, he's overachieved by hanging in some Top 20-15-10... while being utterly anonymous and NO factor in any race of importance since, uh... Tour de Georgia?

TD is simply NOT-- and I predict, never will be (not a bold statement) a first class bike racer whatever his "numbers" claim he "should" be.
+1. I always hope he'll do well and he always disappoints. I'm pulling for him but it's sort of like being a Cubs fan.

[the bottle ride]

I am sorry-didnt Tommy D finish top 10 in the tour last year? That is pretty monumental.
Seriously- how many gringos have that on their palmares? One of 5 Americans at most maybe?

Just sayin'

[firerescuefin]

4 top 10s in grand tours..1 stage victory doesn't exactly brand you a failure. Has had a lot of personal demons he's hopefully put behind him. He's got a lot of miles left in his legs...and is coming off a good year.

[tannhauser]

TD is solid. His past "failures" were mostly due to his Eskimo dna. No doubt a bad day today. It happens when one isn't attached to an iv on one's off days.

[gone]

I dunno, maybe expectations are too high (at least mine). His forte is as a climber but I wouldn't rate him in the top 5 in the world, perhaps not even top 10. There are a number of better sprinters and quite a few better time trialists. His chances of winning a grand tour are therefore slim. Top 10? Sure, on a good year and yes, that's quite an accomplishment.

I'm trying to think of big races he'd be a good fit for and can't think of one. Maybe the Dauphine? Tour de Suisse?

[tannhauser]

Go through last year's TdF stages, including the final tt in which he obliterated Schleck squared, and get back to me.

[harryblack]

yah, but doing what, really? hanging until point x and then nothing. he's got talent-- a lot of talent, even-- but not the heart, for whatever reasons. guy's way too old to change THAT much. Bobby Julich podium'd TdF and then ?? i would argue tho' that Julich was a much better racer than Danielson with less talent (but more 'ability').

King of Mount Washington is TD's epitaph.

4 top 10s in grand tours..1 stage victory doesn't exactly brand you a failure. Has had a lot of personal demons he's hopefully put behind him. He's got a lot of miles left in his legs...and is coming off a good year.

[tannhauser]

yah, but doing what, really? hanging until point x and then nothing. he's got talent-- a lot of talent, even-- but not the heart, for whatever reasons. guy's way too old to change THAT much. Bobby Julich podium'd TdF and then ?? i would argue tho' that Julich was a much better racer than Danielson with less talent (but more 'ability').

King of Mount Washington is TD's epitaph.

Not enough heart. Classic.

[firerescuefin]

HB...he certainly has underperformed...given that he was a one time considered the next great hope.

I have actually got the chance to meet and hang out with him. He's had a lot of issues...is now married with a child and seems to be in the best place he's ever been. He is never going to be an assassin. That's not him, but he could top 5 at the TdF..podium in another grand tour and win a race such as California, Colorado, or Suisse/Dauphine. I am a fan and rooting for him. One of the good guys for sure.

[tv_vt]

OK, this helps to explain it. From Velonews:

"The cumulative effects of a hard fall on Stage 3 of the Tour de Langkawi finally took their toll on Garmin-Barracuda leader Tom Danielson, who on the queen stage of the race Wednesday, found himself helpless against the climbing force that is Androni-Giocattoli."

Was wondering if it was something like this. He's certainly capable of better than his placing on the stage.

[tannhauser]

OK, this helps to explain it. From Velonews:

"The cumulative effects of a hard fall on Stage 3 of the Tour de Langkawi finally took their toll on Garmin-Barracuda leader Tom Danielson, who on the queen stage of the race Wednesday, found himself helpless against the climbing force that is Androni-Giocattoli."

Was wondering if it was something like this. He's certainly capable of better than his placing on the stage.

Of course the explanation is he was injured or something. Of course, hanging the "loser" label on him is devoid of actually thinking about the race.

[rustychisel]

Yeah, he's a talent, but expectations have been placed upon his shoulders by others. Too many expectation, perhaps, sort of like Damiano Cunego.

[fogrider]

Of course the explanation is he was injured or something. Of course, hanging the "loser" label on him is devoid of actually thinking about the race.
Wow, you guys are brutal! maybe he should juiced up to meet your expectations...

[tannhauser]

Wow, you guys are brutal! maybe he should juiced up to meet your expectations...

My post was sarcastic.

[the bottle ride]

HB...he certainly has underperformed...given that he was a one time considered the next great hope.


Clearily his career and his performances can be broken into pre-Disco and apres Disco.
Pre-disco performance were strong under the guidance of some "interesting" factors.
Apres Disco performances have been good, but have lacked the big wins like his Vuelta stage win in front EPO poster boy Vino.

Cut the guy some slack-he is clearily one of the best US bike racers today. If not potentially the best stage racer right from the USA.

Top ten at the tour is no small feat when most pros measure their whole career by how many times they get to show up for a Tour- Top ten to the pros is pretty big stuff.

[rockdude]

He is one of the USA's top talent. If he can stay health and get his head on right you will see the results this year. The Tour and US pro challenge will be big events for him.

[nooneline]

Man, something about putting the Tour and the US Pro Challenge next to each other in a sentence just feels weird.

[torquer]

His past "failures" were mostly due to his Eskimo dna.
Could someone explain this? (both the dna part and the ethnic stereotype)

[tannhauser]

Could someone explain this? (both the dna part and the ethnic stereotype)

Uh, it's not an Eskimo "stereotype". Allen Lim did a series of tests on TD and determined his body burns fuels differently than the typical racer, which is fairly normal for the tribe from which he is descendant. I think it was he needed much more fat vs. carbs than "normal".

Lim took him out on long training rides precisely in order to retrain his body to use a more standardly available diet more efficiently, though at this time Lim was working with Garmin and restructuring the way the entire team ate as well. The retraining took the form of bonking repeatedly, upon which Lim would feed him.

So this entire, "no heart, he's lame, got no talent" thing just says the opinionators have more mouth than facts.

BTW just google "TD eskimo" and it's all there.

[MattTuck]

That's incredibly interesting. I can imagine JV... "I'm sick of the car smelling like Salmon! Can't you get Danielson to eat something else?!"

Uh, it's not an Eskimo "stereotype". Allen Lim did a series of tests on TD and determined his body burns fuels differently than the typical racer, which is fairly normal for the tribe from which he is descendant. I think it was he needed much more fat vs. carbs than "normal".

Lim took him out on long training rides precisely in order to retrain his body to use a more standardly available diet more efficiently, though at this time Lim was working with Garmin and restructuring the way the entire time ate as well. The retraining took the form of bonking repeatedly, upon which Lim would feed him.

So this entire, "no heart, he's lame, got no talent" thing just says the opinionators have more mouth than facts.

BTW just google "TD eskimo" and it's all there.

[tannhauser]

That's incredibly interesting. I can imagine JV... "I'm sick of the car smelling like Salmon! Can't you get Danielson to eat something else?!"

Part of the weaning was a Cytomax-crumbed crust on the fish.

I tell you, bike racing is glamorous.

[torquer]

BTW just google "TD eskimo" and it's all there.
Fascinating. And I didn't mean to sound all PC about the stereotype thing. Maybe too much Jeremy Lin in the sports pages lately.

[tannhauser]

Fascinating. And I didn't mean to sound all PC about the stereotype thing. Maybe too much Jeremy Lin in the sports pages lately.

No worries. Got my League Pass because of JL. Good stuff.

[CunegoFan]

Special Eskimo physiology? Not buying it. Danielson has the same problem that Vaughters had: He has poor recovery and needs dope to perform well day after day. Dial back or eliminate the doping while competing against those who are still going full bore and you get massive "under achievement."

[tannhauser]

Special Eskimo physiology? Not buying it. Danielson has the same problem that Vaughters had: He has poor recovery and needs dope to perform well day after day. Dial back or eliminate the doping while competing against those who are still going full bore and you get massive "under achievement."

Nice comment. Tell me, from your armchair, who and who does not definitively dope in the sport. I'm all ears.

Garmin makes it a point to be clean.

If you've got evidence of past drug busts or even hearsay about TD, let's have it. Otherwise your comment is merely cynical with no basis in fact.

[firerescuefin]

Special Eskimo physiology? Not buying it. Danielson has the same problem that Vaughters had: He has poor recovery and needs dope to perform well day after day. Dial back or eliminate the doping while competing against those who are still going full bore and you get massive "under achievement."

:rolleyes:

[CunegoFan]

Nice comment. Tell me, from your armchair, who and who does not definitively dope in the sport. I'm all ears.
Pretty much everyone that achieved any meaningful grand tour results since circa 1993. Blood doping is too effective for clean athletes to have a chance.

Garmin makes it a point to be clean.
Garmin makes it a point to tell people they are clean, but this is the team run by the man who told Floyd Landis not to name any names when he confessed, who stuffed his team with riders that came out of the same doping program that Landis came out of, and who has said everything but an outright confession to imply that he doped while on that team. If you want to believe that TD was the one guy racing in Europe for the Hog who refused to dope and that his fall off in performance after leaving Disco was coincidence then go ahead. Maybe Vaughters is on the up and up, but I don't trust people who go out of their way to tell me how anti-dope they are while telling others to uphold omerta. It makes me think that the difference--if there is any--between such a character and Pat Mcquaid is too close for comfort. It makes me think that if he will keep Armtrong's, Bruyneel's, and his own secrets then why should I trust him not to keep the secrets of his own riders who cross the line.

If you've got evidence of past drug busts or even hearsay about TD, let's have it. Otherwise your comment is merely cynical with no basis in fact.
Cynicism wins out over belief in moon beams and unicorns every time when it comes to pro cycling. At the top it is an utterly dirty and corrupt sport. I'll bet on cynicism any day over mumbo jumbo about Innuit blood that comes from the guy who handled the logistics of Landis' doping program.

[tannhauser]

Ah, spoken like the Cunego Fan that you are.

Everyone dopes but Damiano. Though WADA and CONI have their own investigation wings dedicated to him.

Dream on, youngster.

It's 2012. I think you're a bit behind the times. One doesn't have to believe in unicorns to enjoy the sport.

BTW, if you're going to stink up the joint when any pro rider is mentioned, please refrain from saying anything unless you feel everyone must know how corrupt the sport is for the umpteenth time.

Added: "mumbo jumbo about Innuit blood" is insulting to those who have that physiology. Any rudimentary understanding of what grows in the far north (nothing but meat during the long winter) will give you an understanding of the Innuit body's adaptive evolution. "Mumbo jumbo" is also a term a lot of people who don't understand science use to denigrate it, as if it's voodoo.