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snah
02-25-2012, 09:23 AM
Having no experience riding carbon rims, what at an LBS last weekend which happened to have some Zipp 404's alongside some Mavic Cosmic Carbone's, don't recall exact model. What struck me as odd, and what prompts my question, is that the Zipp wheels, while being carefully fondled, felt nice and solid. The Mavic's on the other hand, reminded me of Mr Whipple and the old Charmin commercials, "Don't squeeze the Charmin!" They were squeezably soft. As a 180lb rider that would also use the wheels while riding to work, being squeezably soft doesn't make me overly confident. Not knowing much about carbon, I'd assume this had to do with the thickness of the carbon. Curious why the difference and if it'd make a difference for someone my size?

cfox
02-25-2012, 09:36 AM
I don't know the reason for the difference, but it doesn't matter (unless a wheel has a specific weight limit). For example, Enve rims can be squeezed, and can also withstand serious abuse from large people. Also, I bet the Mavics are actually heavier than the Zipps, and likely more durable.

LegendRider
02-25-2012, 09:37 AM
There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for what you experienced. The carbon used in the Zipp wheel is structural whereas the carbon on the Cosmic is just a wind fairing - the underlying aluminum rim is what holds the wheel together. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

fjaws
02-25-2012, 11:50 AM
There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for what you experienced. The carbon used in the Zipp wheel is structural whereas the carbon on the Cosmic is just a wind fairing - the underlying aluminum rim is what holds the wheel together. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

+1

:D

gforce
02-25-2012, 12:08 PM
LR explained it perfectly.
I can also add the cosmic carbone has been an excellent everyday wheel.
Perhaps not the lightest, but very good aerodynamics and durability.
My experience with Zipp has been less durability.

benitosan1972
02-25-2012, 12:48 PM
Mavic gets the durability nod for the rim strength,
Zipp gets the performance nod for the smoothest bearings.

As has been said, 2 totally different wheels & structures.
Mavic is a aluminum rim with a carbon fairing = good for everyday use,
Zipp is a carbon wheel that's fast for racing & aerodynamics.

Pick according to how you will use them.

firerescuefin
02-25-2012, 01:00 PM
Lots of generalization here...many inaccurate.

Both manufacturers wheels have evolved over time. Take a 404 or 808 and compare it to the Mavic equivalent and there's more similiar than disimiliar with regard to weight and durability. Just to say Mavics are more durable and Zipps are for racing is grossly inaccurate.

benitosan1972
02-25-2012, 01:23 PM
well, i have both wheelsets, and that is just my experience(s).
i like the Mavics for every day riding, and the Zipps for special rides.

both have been solid wheels for me, i was just pointing out my experience w/ each.

the Mavic is considerably heavier, but the Zipp is smoother, that is all... both are great.

firerescuefin
02-25-2012, 01:25 PM
well, i have both wheelsets, and that is just my experience(s).
i like the Mavics for every day riding, and the Zipps for special rides.

both have been solid wheels for me, i was just pointing out my experience w/ each.

That wasn't specifically at you, but many think Cosmics are essentially one wheel...their entire line of Carbon wheels are leveraged off that name...from durable to ultra exotic. My point is that some are comparing apples to oranges.

benitosan1972
02-25-2012, 01:26 PM
agreed :beer:

cfox
02-25-2012, 02:25 PM
The OP never specified whether the Mavic was a full carbon (cosmic carbone ultimate), or an aluminum rimmed model. I'll assume it was an all carbon model, otherwise I think he could have figured it out himself. A flexy sidewall has nothing to do do with whether the carbon is a fairing or structural. Like I wrote before, Enve rims are all carbon, have very flexy sidewalls, and are exceptionally durable.

snah
02-25-2012, 07:02 PM
The OP never specified whether the Mavic was a full carbon (cosmic carbone ultimate), or an aluminum rimmed model. I'll assume it was an all carbon model, otherwise I think he could have figured it out himself. A flexy sidewall has nothing to do do with whether the carbon is a fairing or structural. Like I wrote before, Enve rims are all carbon, have very flexy sidewalls, and are exceptionally durable.

To clarify, both had the aluminum braking surface, so assumed they were basically the same.

Bruce K
02-25-2012, 07:20 PM
And nobody mentions HED?!? :rolleyes:

The latest issue of Bicycling does a 3 way comparison with Zipp, HED, and Bontager carbon wheels

It's an interesting read, especially how the aerodynamics affect handling

BK

Grant McLean
02-25-2012, 08:26 PM
To clarify, both had the aluminum braking surface, so assumed they were basically the same.

No, the mavic cosmic carbone with the alu brake track isn't structural
carbon, like the others have mentioned. The spokes pass right through
the holes in the carbon fairing, and the spoke nipple is held in the
aluminum rim, just like a box section aluminum wheel.

All the zip wheels have the spoke nipple bedded at the edge of the rim,
that's why it's visible, and they can be trued without taking the tire off.

-g