Grant Petersen's new book

[fiamme red]

Not released yet, but available for pre-order: http://www.amazon.com/Just-Ride-Radically-Practical-Riding/dp/0761155589/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329840132&sr=1-1

Some excerpts here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/just-ride-radically-practical-tips-for-healthy-biking-done-right/252016/

[fourflys]

nice, hopefully it'll be available on the Nook... many may not agree with Grant, but you can't argue the man had a knack for writing...

[soupless]

Yeah, I like a lot of what he says, but don't agree with everything. I do think his voice is valuable, and you HAVE to give him credit for keeping it real.

Am looking forward to it.

[phcollard]

A lot of the advice you've been getting ever since you became a bike rider is flat-out wrong and is actually bad for your health.

Woah. Quite a good start! :D

[fourflys]

A lot of the advice you've been getting ever since you became a bike rider is flat-out wrong and is actually bad for your health.

Woah. Quite a good start! :D

but you gotta read the rest of the book I'm sure... and if you know anything about Grant, you know he doesn't really agree with how most people think they have to have a special set of clothes and shoes just to go for a ride type of thing...
:beer:

[redir]

That's one book that won't be on my bookshelf. :beer:

[phcollard]

but you gotta read the rest of the book I'm sure... and if you know anything about Grant, you know he doesn't really agree with how most people think they have to have a special set of clothes and shoes just to go for a ride type of thing...
:beer:

I'll read it for sure. I love people who go against the flow!

[SamIAm]

That's one book that won't be on my bookshelf. :beer:

Oh, so you are going to download it to your kindle. Excellent.

[fiamme red]

This was a great blog post about Grant from a year ago, with his interesting answers to people's questions in the comments section below:

http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2772-bootstrapped-profitable-proud-rivendell

[Louis]

A lot of the advice you've been getting ever since you became a bike rider is flat-out wrong and is actually bad for your health.

Woah. Quite a good start! :D

Does he also require that you drink a large dose of Flavor Aide to help things go down?

[fourflys]

Does he also require that you drink a large dose of Flavor Aide to help things go down?

you know the cool thing is the really think Grant couldn't care less if you read his book or not... he has always polarized people and always will I'm sure... you have to respect a man who stands by his beliefs in the face of financial adversity or anything else regardless if you agree with him or not...

[CunegoFan]

Grant Pertersen is the Ron Paul of the cycling world. He is willing to speak truths and challenge delusions that no one else dares, but the message gets buried under the craziness of his other opinions. People dismiss him as a nut even when he is right.

[redir]

you know the cool thing is the really think Grant couldn't care less if you read his book or not... he has always polarized people and always will I'm sure... you have to respect a man who stands by his beliefs in the face of financial adversity or anything else regardless if you agree with him or not...

I find it hard to respect anyone who polarizes people. And if he didn't then he may not be in financial trouble. It's one thing to stand by your believes when they are right but entirely another when they are flat out wrong and you are unwilling to compromise in the least bit. :no:

[Louis]

you have to respect a man who stands by his beliefs in the face of financial adversity or anything else regardless if you agree with him or not...

Perhaps, but for me anyone who starts off saying something like "a lot of the other guys are flat-out wrong, but you can believe ME, because I'm the real expert" immediately looses some credibility.

That sort of stuff is intended to get headlines, not convince.

[redir]

Grant Pertersen is the Ron Paul of the cycling world. He is willing to speak truths and challenge delusions that no one else dares, but the message gets buried under the craziness of his other opinions so that people dismiss him even when he is right.

:D :hello: :)

:beer:

[Louis]

RP = Abolish the Fed Res

GP = Abolish Car Fib

[firerescuefin]

Grant Pertersen is the Ron Paul of the cycling world. He is willing to speak truths and challenge delusions that no one else dares, but the message gets buried under the craziness of his other opinions. People dismiss him as a nut even when he is right.

Well put

[fourflys]

I find it hard to respect anyone who polarizes people. And if he didn't then he may not be in financial trouble. It's one thing to stand by your believes when they are right but entirely another when they are flat out wrong and you are unwilling to compromise in the least bit. :no:

but that's the thing about a belief or opinion... with very exceptions it's kind of hard for one to wrong... who's to say his beliefs are right or wrong? or your's for that matter? I understand you don't agree with him (I don't agree with all he says either), to say they are "flat out wrong" is a little hostile IMHO...

BTW- If MLK Jr. didn't polarize people, we might still be in that barbaric time of pre-civil rights...

just sayin'...

[fourflys]

Perhaps, but for me anyone who starts off saying something like "a lot of the other guys are flat-out wrong, but you can believe ME, because I'm the real expert" immediately looses some credibility.

That sort of stuff is intended to get headlines, not convince.


I understand that, but that is kind of what polarizing means to me... you have a stand and you take that stand to the end...

if he was really trying to convince the masses, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be so polarizing... as I said earlier, I don't think Grant really cares if anyone reads his book or not... of course he wants to sell copies, but he's not going to bend his beliefs just to sell a book...

[fourflys]

Grant Pertersen is the Ron Paul of the cycling world. He is willing to speak truths and challenge delusions that no one else dares, but the message gets buried under the craziness of his other opinions. People dismiss him as a nut even when he is right.

that I an totally agree on!

[beeatnik]

Grant is the Anti-Gaulzetti. Both dudes are authorities. Both dudes are opinionated. Both dudes are straight-shooters. Both dudes are dogmatic. Both dudes are iconoclasts.

Grant sees racers as outliers.
Gaulzetti sees Pros as the ideal.

In the end, I think Grant has more catholic ideas. It's interesting to me that one guy thinks the race bike is the ideal machine and everyone should mold themselves to that form ("wheels in the right place" "weight distribution" "rider position"). Grant, on the other hand, sees the danger in this type of thinking but seems more willing to acknowledge that some riders are genetically suited to hard and fast riding. Ultimately, they both believe that one type of bike suits all riders.

[dauwhe]

I think Riv has been a huge force for good in the cycling world, even when I don't always agree.

But putting plastic fenders on gorgeous lugged steel bikes is unforgivable ;)

[Ray]

Grant was a huge influence on my in my early days of riding and learning about bikes. I eventually learned to take what I needed and to leave the rest, but my first really nice bike was a Riv Road Standard (circa late '97) and it was my favorite bike by FAR until I finally got a Spectrum about 8 years later. Back in the days when you'd call Riv and Grant would answer and just chat for a while. I remember my "interview" while he was sizing me up for the bike, took an hour or so on the phone one evening and I learned a TON from that hour of having Grant ask me questions but with me essentially picking HIS brain.

Grant's one of those people who, like most of us, is probably wrong more often than right and is sure enough of his opinions to piss some folks off when they disagree with his strongly held positions. But unlike most of us, when he's right, he tends to be VERY VERY right. He first exposed me to a number of ideas that were damn near life changing, mostly in terms of the relatively small part of my life that revolves/revolved around cycling, but also in terms of exercise, diet, and SOAP! Been using nothing but pine tar soap since about '98 and my skin thanks Grant for that! And my wife probably curses him...

So, sure, I'll buy his book. I buy enough books that end up being crap that I'm sure I'll grab at least a few nuggets of useful wisdom from this one. That's worth $10 in this day and age...

-Ray

[Earl Gray]

Just pre-ordered the Kindle version!

The Riv thing seems a little over the top from a marketing stand point but I tend to agree with much of what he says.

While is has helped the sales of road bikes, the racer boy movement will not have helped cycling in the USA anymor ehte the messenger movement has.

They both tend to leave a bad taste in the mouth of many.

[gdw]

It might make an interesting read. I wonder if he'll explain the logic behind some of his recent creations..double top tubes and the Bombadill. :eek: .

[stephenmarklay]

We need people like him to go against the flow. The population are to content on following norms. Usually, I feel that the norms and the grants are at opposite ends and the reality is I'm the middle. The middle though is only defined by the ends.

[supergalactic]

It might make an interesting read. I wonder if he'll explain the logic behind some of his recent creations..double top tubes and the Bombadill. :eek: .

You can call em and ask. They're oldschool like that

Double top tubes are nice on tall frames as they triangulate the frame better.

[gdw]

"they triangulate the frame better"

What does that mean?

[GuyGadois]

"they triangulate the frame better"

What does that mean?

They're pretty and edgey.

[d.vader123]

I find it hard to respect anyone who polarizes people. And if he didn't then he may not be in financial trouble. It's one thing to stand by your believes when they are right but entirely another when they are flat out wrong and you are unwilling to compromise in the least bit. :no:Who says he's in financial trouble? If so, it would be a sad day in the bicycle world.

[EDS]

"they triangulate the frame better"

What does that mean?

Ask yourself: What is better than two triangles? Three!!!!!!!!

Boom.

[dancinkozmo]

..i wish g.p. nothing but the best..hopefully in a years time all the lance wannabes will ditch their carbon and be riding around on expensive lugged steel frames dressed like hobos !

[J.Greene]

I just learned that GP is Ron Paul and the anti-Gaulzetti rolled into one.

Man, this place is kooky sometimes.

[charliedid]

It might make an interesting read. I wonder if he'll explain the logic behind some of his recent creations..double top tubes and the Bombadill. :eek: .

I'm assuming you know that the double top tube is not Grant's idea and certainly not a new one right?

[palincss]

I think Riv has been a huge force for good in the cycling world, even when I don't always agree.

But putting plastic fenders on gorgeous lugged steel bikes is unforgivable ;)

Maybe not -- but putting plastic fenders on gorgeous lugged steel bikes with zip ties definitely is unforgivable.

[fiamme red]

Maybe not -- but putting plastic fenders on gorgeous lugged steel bikes with zip ties definitely is unforgivable.What if the bike doesn't have fender mounts?

[gdw]

"I'm assuming you know that the double top tube is not Grant's idea and certainly not a new one right?"

Right but I'm surprised, actually not, that the guy who designed the later Bridgestone MBs brought the double top tubes back on his non-suspension fork, non-disc brake compatible, 650B 1984 Stumpjumper wannabee.

[fourflys]

Who says he's in financial trouble? If so, it would be a sad day in the bicycle world.

according to Grant's Blogs, he's always on the brink especially with the dollar to yen ratio...

[bfd]

I'm assuming you know that the double top tube is not Grant's idea and certainly not a new one right?

Agree. I'm not opposed to a frame with double top tubes if it is for a big guy who is like 6'8 or taller and rides a 68 or 70+cm frame. In that scenario, it makes sense.

However, I think its crazy to put it on a 56cm frame for a guy who stands around 5'10. Really?! Take a look at the attached photo:

http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/images/rivendell/sam_hillborne_comparison/sam-hillborne-comparison.jpg

how stiff does that 56cm frame need to be?! Good Luck!

[tannhauser]

It might make an interesting read. I wonder if he'll explain the logic behind some of his recent creations..double top tubes and the Bombadill. :eek: .

Because Riv is trying to corner the 250lb.+ market. I am more than 50% serious.

[oldpotatoe]

What if the bike doesn't have fender mounts?


Just get farging wet!!!

[Bob Loblaw]

One of the most amazing bikes I have ever ridden was a Bridgestone RB-1. You can argue whether the things he says make sense, but the dude knows how to make an excellent bicycle. That alone makes him worth listening to. I will be a quirking his book.

BL

[Grant McLean]

Some excerpts here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/just-ride-radically-practical-tips-for-healthy-biking-done-right/252016/

I realize most of this discussion so far has been on some of his opinions
in general, but have many of you looked at these excerpts?

Who is the intended audience for this book?

I like Grant... but this stuff is just mens health mag contrarian drivel.
Cycling is a lousy exercise? Carbs make you fat? Stretching is over-rated?
Oh please. Tell the newbies something they can actually use
to get them over the hump of technical knowledge that often overwhelms
new riders. Leave the other stuff to bikesnobnyc.

-g

[charliedid]

"I'm assuming you know that the double top tube is not Grant's idea and certainly not a new one right?"

Right but I'm surprised, actually not, that the guy who designed the later Bridgestone MBs brought the double top tubes back on his non-suspension fork, non-disc brake compatible, 650B 1984 Stumpjumper wannabee.

Well maybe, but I think Grant is just tipping his hat to the "Klunkers" of Marin which some of them were Schwinn exselsiors and or Joe Breeze who made a frame like that back in the late 1970's

Nothing to worry about.

[palincss]

I like Grant... but this stuff is just mens health mag contrarian drivel.
Cycling is a lousy exercise? Carbs make you fat? Stretching is over-rated?
Oh please. Tell the newbies something they can actually use
to get them over the hump of technical knowledge that often overwhelms
new riders. Leave the other stuff to bikesnobnyc.

-g

You don't think he does that now on the Rivendell web site?
http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp

[charliedid]

Agree. I'm not opposed to a frame with double top tubes if it is for a big guy who is like 6'8 or taller and rides a 68 or 70+cm frame. In that scenario, it makes sense.

However, I think its crazy to put it on a 56cm frame for a guy who stands around 5'10. Really?! Take a look at the attached photo:


how stiff does that 56cm frame need to be?! Good Luck!

What if you are 5' 10" 210 lbs and riding fully loaded around the planet?

For that matter, who needs these super sized head tubes some people are putting on bikes these days? Or OS steel tubes that ride more like a sheet of plywood on edge than anything else?

Let's not start talking about SUV's

Just sayin' ;-)

[charliedid]

One of the most amazing bikes I have ever ridden was a Bridgestone RB-1. You can argue whether the things he says make sense, but the dude knows how to make an excellent bicycle. That alone makes him worth listening to. I will be a quirking his book.

BL

Yes, I have owned an RB-1 and many other B-stones. That said, and this is the rub with Grant for some. Grant is really good at marketing, history, and he knows what he likes. He has got to be given a pile of credit for many people's interest in and the current love for lugged steel frames as just about anyone.

The thing is, Grant doesn't (and I know you know this) "make bikes" he specs them to his quirky standards and has other people build them. I don't have a problem with this but some people do and would rather just buy a Waterford than a Grant P. Waterford or who ever is making them these days.

Grant gets a bad rap and I think it is a bit expected (articles exclaiming the virtues of cycling in crocs) and a bit lame on people's part.

If anyone ever gets the chance to talk to the guy, he is warm, smart as a whip and funny and really, really loves bikes. Totally lovable bike dork.

Give him a break.

[Frankwurst]

I'll buy it, read it and probably enjoy it. Why I don't know because like alot of other people who ride bicycles I already know everything. :beer: :rolleyes:

[Grant McLean]

You don't think he does that now on the Rivendell web site?
http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp

yes, that's my point.

I'm wondering who is the book for? I assumed that there are millions
of people who have never heard of Rivendell, or been to their website,
but have an interest in cycling, and picking up a book of all the kinds
of things that have made him legendary in the cycling community
would translate perfectly to a new audience.

I really don't see who would buy a book about cycling that starts with
telling me that it's not good exercise, or why stretching is over-rated?
I don't get it. Need to see more about the rest of the book i guess.

-g

[tannhauser]

yes, that's my point.

I'm wondering who is the book for? I assumed that there are millions
of people who have never heard of Rivendell, or been to their website,
but have an interest in cycling, and picking up a book of all the kinds
of things that have made him legendary in the cycling community
would translate perfectly to a new audience.

I really don't see who would buy a book about cycling that starts with
telling me that it's not good exercise, or why stretching is over-rated?
I don't get it. Need to see more about the rest of the book i guess.

-g

Really all I see is the book re-staking out familiar ground for the new generation of the anti-roadie crowd to camp on.

There are kernels of truth in the excerpt, but some of the conclusions are a bit overstated, per usual.

[charliedid]

yes, that's my point.

I'm wondering who is the book for? I assumed that there are millions
of people who have never heard of Rivendell, or been to their website,
but have an interest in cycling, and picking up a book of all the kinds
of things that have made him legendary in the cycling community
would translate perfectly to a new audience.

I really don't see who would buy a book about cycling that starts with
telling me that it's not good exercise, or why stretching is over-rated?
I don't get it. Need to see more about the rest of the book i guess.

-g

"I really don't see who would buy a book about cycling that starts with
telling me that it's not good exercise, or why stretching is over-rated?
I don't get it. Need to see more about the rest of the book i guess."

Grant wants people to see the bicycle as this thing that keeps us young and childlike forever, not this uncomfortable thing designed to go fast and win. Plenty of people think stretching is overrated and I dare say many cyclists included. If someone wanted to exercise for the sake of exercise alone, I would tell them to take up running and swimming. Bikes are very different and you don't have to be fit or an atlete to understand the magic...

[markie]

Grant wants people to see the bicycle as this thing that keeps us young and childlike forever, not this uncomfortable thing designed to go fast and win

I think that sums it up really rather well. I hate racing, I love riding my bike. I have a quickbeam. :)

[Ray]

Grant wants people to see the bicycle as this thing that keeps us young and childlike forever, not this uncomfortable thing designed to go fast and win.
It may not even be about what he WANTS people to see the bicycle as, but being there to validate and provide equipment for people who already DO see the bicycle this way. IE, most bicycle riding people in the world.

There are plenty of bikes and bike companies catering to the racers and racer wanna-bes. Grant's been there and done that. Now he's more interested in the "just go out and have a nice bike ride, for work or pleasure" kind of rider. And Riv is one of the relatively few companies, at least in the US, who caters specifically to that crowd. Good on 'em.

-Ray

[charliedid]

It may not even be about what he WANTS people to see the bicycle as, but being there to validate and provide equipment for people who already DO see the bicycle this way. IE, most bicycle riding people in the world.

There are plenty of bikes and bike companies catering to the racers and racer wanna-bes. Grant's been there and done that. Now he's more interested in the "just go out and have a nice bike ride, for work or pleasure" kind of rider. And Riv is one of the relatively few companies, at least in the US, who caters specifically to that crowd. Good on 'em.

-Ray

Yes, but he is a bit evangelical about it at times :D

[J.Greene]

There aren't enough Grant Petersons in the world, or Grant McLeans for that matter.

[GRAVELBIKE]

There aren't enough Grant Petersons in the world, or Grant McLeans for that matter.

Nor Grant McLennans, either.

[tannhauser]

Nor Grant McLennans, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFDonPN-I1c

[GRAVELBIKE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFDonPN-I1c

One of the greatest songwriting duos of my (life)time.

God bless Grant McLennan. He left us much too soon.

[tannhauser]

One of the greatest songwriting duos of my (life)time.

God bless Grant McLennan. He left us much too soon.

Such an amazing band with a sensibility all their own.

Saw them twice in the late 80s in small clubs with their minimal sound. Just so perfect.

[Jack Brunk]

I really know nothing about this peterson guy but I have a hell of lot of respect for J. Greene and Grant M. I'd be proud to own a frame of Mr. Greene and I think Grant M knows why more bike related stuff that most.

[bfd]

I wrote:

<< I think its crazy to put it (double top tube) on a 56cm frame for a guy who stands around 5'10.>>

charliedid responded:

[What if you are 5' 10" 210 lbs and riding fully loaded around the planet? ]

So what?! People of all shapes and sizes have been "riding fully loaded around the planet" for what the past 60, maybe 80 years with single top tube bikes. I doubt they missed having another top tube.

Sorry, but that double top tube just seems like a gimmick on a 56cm bike. Yes, it will "stiffen" up the bike, but is it necessary? Further, a bike that stiff probably won't be able to *plane*...... :crap: :bike: :butt:

[For that matter, who needs these super sized head tubes some people are putting on bikes these days? Or OS steel tubes that ride more like a sheet of plywood on edge than anything else?]

Wow, have you ridden any of bikes with these "super sized head tubes" or "OS steel tubes?" My cross bike has a standard head tube, but did have "OS steel tube." It rode fine and no way felt like a "sheet of plywood on edge." Try one, you may actually like it!

[Let's not start talking about SUV's]

Agree! If you want to talk about cars, I prefer BMWs....Good Luck!

[charliedid]

I wrote:

<< I think its crazy to put it (double top tube) on a 56cm frame for a guy who stands around 5'10.>>

charliedid responded:

[What if you are 5' 10" 210 lbs and riding fully loaded around the planet? ]

So what?! People of all shapes and sizes have been "riding fully loaded around the planet" for what the past 60, maybe 80 years with single top tube bikes. I doubt they missed having another top tube.

Sorry, but that double top tube just seems like a gimmick on a 56cm bike. Yes, it will "stiffen" up the bike, but is it necessary? Further, a bike that stiff probably won't be able to *plane*...... :crap: :bike: :butt:

Just trying to surmise what the justification for the second tube might be. I think I am right.

[For that matter, who needs these super sized head tubes some people are putting on bikes these days? Or OS steel tubes that ride more like a sheet of plywood on edge than anything else?]

Wow, have you ridden any of bikes with these "super sized head tubes" or "OS steel tubes?" My cross bike has a standard head tube, but did have "OS steel tube." It rode fine and no way felt like a "sheet of plywood on edge." Try one, you may actually like it!

Nope. Cross bike is one thing I guess I was thinking road bike in this case.

[Let's not start talking about SUV's]

Agree! If you want to talk about cars, I prefer BMWs....Good Luck!

Thanks you too!

[fiamme red]

Kent Peterson's (with an "o" not an "e") review:

http://kentsbike.blogspot.com/2012/05/just-ride-by-grant-petersen-review.html

Folks familiar with Grant's work won't be surprised by the kind words he uses to describe steel as a material for bicycles but may be surprised to find he has this to say about titanium:

"Price aside, it is the ideal material for winter commuting on salted roads. Titanium frames were most popular in the pre-carbon years of about 1990 to around 2003. It’s still a terrific frame material, but it’s more labor-intensive than factory-built carbon frames. Titanium may be the only frame material in common use that doesn’t have either a real or perceived drawback. I’m not saying it’s the best material, and it isn’t my favorite, just that no matter how big a fan you are of steel, aluminum, carbon, or bamboo, you’ve got to like the all-around wonderfulness of titanium."

[veloduffer]

Kent Peterson's (with an "o" not an "e") review:

http://kentsbike.blogspot.com/2012/05/just-ride-by-grant-petersen-review.html

Folks familiar with Grant's work won't be surprised by the kind words he uses to describe steel as a material for bicycles but may be surprised to find he has this to say about titanium:

"Price aside, it is the ideal material for winter commuting on salted roads. Titanium frames were most popular in the pre-carbon years of about 1990 to around 2003. It’s still a terrific frame material, but it’s more labor-intensive than factory-built carbon frames. Titanium may be the only frame material in common use that doesn’t have either a real or perceived drawback. I’m not saying it’s the best material, and it isn’t my favorite, just that no matter how big a fan you are of steel, aluminum, carbon, or bamboo, you’ve got to like the all-around wonderfulness of titanium."

+1 on ti. I have a Serotta ti cross bike and Kish cross-tourer as my all-around bikes - great material for durability, corrosion resistance and most of all ride qualities. IMHO, steel and ti are the material for lifetime bikes.

[soulspinner]

Maybe not -- but putting plastic fenders on gorgeous lugged steel bikes with zip ties definitely is unforgivable.

Especially if you get dropped by a guy with zip tied fenders...:p

[esldude]

I actually pre-ordered Mr. Petersen's book, and have read most of it.

In some ways disappointing. It is mostly on his web site. Not too surprised it was very similar after all it is just putting together all his philosophy about the stuff. Some little things not there, but essentially you don't need to buy the book.

He talks about being an unracer type biker.

I agree with him in many of his ideas, some seem simply mistaken about facts (talking in areas where he lacks expertise beyond what your favorite brother in law does), and some is obviously just his preference. It does read however a bit like a luddite or if not quite that someone who lost step with the times and wants to turn back the clock (ain't gonna happen though). In general the tone is like an old codger who doesn't like the world now (no matter how much he says otherwise), and is telling you all that is wrong with it. Most such guys if there is much to them do have some good points and are correct as far as it goes. What is wrong is they haven't adapted to change and don't see all the good that has happened. Leads to a very unbalanced and unhappy viewpoint. Many of the 'bad' changes are due to related good changes. Usually overall the result has been positive though not in every conceivable way.

One example is his saying you only need 8 gears. Okay, but following his thoughts, why not 6 or even 3 (internal hub even) or just one. I tend to agree once we past 8 we have gained little other than making manufacturing some money. Still, having the extra gears somewhat goes along with having brifters. I must say despite his complaints, brifters are simply wonderful. One reason you do get a bit from a few extra gears is with brifters you can make use of the close spacing easier than if you had other shifters. He just seems to miss that altogether. It is more of less how all the rest of his book goes.

[fiamme red]

Thanks for the review, esldude.

I wish Grant would stick to subjects that he understands, like bicycles, and leave the anti-carbohydrate paleo caveman stuff alone.

[esldude]

Thanks for the review, esldude.

I wish Grant would stick to subjects that he understands, like bicycles, and leave the anti-carbohydrate paleo caveman stuff alone.


Yeah, that is one of the areas I meant by him commenting while he lacks expertise.

I also don't get his apparent crusade that you can (and should) ride up to 4 hours without food intake etc. Yes, you can, is there a big advantage or even any advantage to that? Seems unlikely as even fairly modest paces might burn up 1500 calories during that time.

I do somewhat agree with his idea of keeping bikes simple, fun, and useful at a moments notice like when you were a kid. But that doesn't mean you can't do some of both. If I knew I was heading out for a 4 hour ride is it worth it to put on some cycle specific attire that is beneficial? How can the answer be anything other than yes?

[benb]

I may order the book.. maybe it is the right time in my life for me to listen to him.. thanks for bumping this thread.

I'm pretty fed up personally with the whole racer boy thing. I "fit the mold" for racer boy type but after 10 years it's gotten old. My bike has a ton of drop, I have to put on my special shoes & clothes to go for a ride, I'm messing with my fit like crazy to get good power without getting saddle sores or other soreness or whatever. My only other bike is a mountain bike that is pretty darn impractical, requires 4 additional air chambers to be checked on top of the tires before every ride, can't carry any load, and also has a serious saddle to bar drop.

Just reading his take on shoes is seriously liberating. There is a part of me that wants to just get on a simple bike with the handlebars comfortably high and the seat comfortably low, and ride off in my street clothes & shoes and just have fun. I'm 99% sure I could do this, save myself a ton of money, have less comfort issues, have just as much fun, and maintain 90% of the fitness I get by spending so much more money and putting up with so much more hassle to be "racer boy". (Clipless pedals in particular are something I have really just about had enough of.)

With our first kid on the way this kind of practical cycling makes way more sense and if I got myself on a bike like that I wouldn't feel "guilty" about how fast I ride or any of that other nonsense which I have to admit I have fallen into.

Funny thing though is I'm pretty sure no matter how much I bought into this I won't be buying any of his bikes.

[spacemen3]

I just ordered his book. I doubt I'll agree with all he has to say, but I certainly enjoy his perspective. I still regret selling my custom Rivendell All-Rounder. In retrospect, all that was needed to make it a fantastic bike for me would have been to remove the kit Grant recommended. :) Seriously, moustache bars, bar-end shifters, and a Brooks saddle sucked the joy out of riding. A simple swap in of a Nitto straight bar, downtube shifters, and a Regal saddle and the bike would have been perfect. :)

[Grant McLean]

There is a part of me that wants to just get on a simple bike with the handlebars comfortably high and the seat comfortably low, and ride off in my street clothes & shoes and just have fun.

You should. Maybe more than just one.


I'm 99% sure I could do this, save myself a ton of money, have less comfort issues, have just as much fun, and maintain 90% of the fitness I get by spending so much more money and putting up with so much more hassle to be "racer boy". (Clipless pedals in particular are something I have really just about had enough of.)

One doesn't prevent the other.

-g

[esldude]

I may order the book.. maybe it is the right time in my life for me to listen to him.. thanks for bumping this thread.

I'm pretty fed up personally with the whole racer boy thing. I "fit the mold" for racer boy type but after 10 years it's gotten old. My bike has a ton of drop, I have to put on my special shoes & clothes to go for a ride, I'm messing with my fit like crazy to get good power without getting saddle sores or other soreness or whatever. My only other bike is a mountain bike that is pretty darn impractical, requires 4 additional air chambers to be checked on top of the tires before every ride, can't carry any load, and also has a serious saddle to bar drop.

Just reading his take on shoes is seriously liberating. There is a part of me that wants to just get on a simple bike with the handlebars comfortably high and the seat comfortably low, and ride off in my street clothes & shoes and just have fun. I'm 99% sure I could do this, save myself a ton of money, have less comfort issues, have just as much fun, and maintain 90% of the fitness I get by spending so much more money and putting up with so much more hassle to be "racer boy". (Clipless pedals in particular are something I have really just about had enough of.)

With our first kid on the way this kind of practical cycling makes way more sense and if I got myself on a bike like that I wouldn't feel "guilty" about how fast I ride or any of that other nonsense which I have to admit I have fallen into.

Funny thing though is I'm pretty sure no matter how much I bought into this I won't be buying any of his bikes.

Well, in some sense I have listened to him. Ran across a 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 on CL. Price was pretty attractive and it literally was used 3 weeks before being put away. The part about listening to Petersen's idea was this bike was a size too big for a road setup which is right for me for best speed. Plus the Pilot is a more relaxed design anyway. Now Petersen's sizing guidelines say this is the size for me. I purchased it and have it set up with handlebars nearly an inch above the seat. Is a more upright setup. And it does slow me down over my personal time trial of 12 miles by best I can tell 1/4 to 1/2 mph (not that I am fast or the upright position might make for more loss of speed). And yes I changed out the Speedplay pedals for some of the new Ergon pedals (which are pretty nice). This setup has been getting half my ride time.

Now unlike some of Petersen's ideas, it is a carbon bike, it has brifters, egad it even has a triple up front. It has places for fenders to attach and bigger tires though currently wearing 25c tires. Could put a rack on it too. So, to me this makes more sense than the added baggage that goes along with his alternate take on biking. But I can hop on this bike with any shoes and ride off. Neck and shoulders are more comfortable. I can hammer if I want to or ease off and cruise as suits me. I am not sure why this isn't plenty inline with Petersen's aim without saying we need less of what modern bikes can give us. Heck we can have both.

I still have a bike more like a roadie/racer setup. No reason I cannot have both. Rather like why one has a pickup truck and a sports car. I do suppose among 'serious' bikers, we have a case like if there were 50 or 100 different sports cars available, and only a couple pickups, one minivan, and no station wagons (unless custom made). Yet 90% of all vehicles sold and used were actually those pickups and vans.

[rw229]

Grant has some interesting (odd) perspectives and his newer designs do nothing for me, but your post sums it up for me.

While I was never a racer, I evolved (or devolved depending on your perspective) from a race bike with carbon everything and a big drop to lugged steel with less drop and no carbon. No kit and no cleats unless I put the clipless pedals on. I found myself riding more and enjoying it more, no more getting ready to ride.

I'm currently riding a Rivendell All-Rounder and couldn't be happier. I can run any combination of wheels/tires from skinny fast to fat knobbies, move the bars up or down at will, put racks on it if I want, etc. It's enjoyable to ride fast or slow and not feel like I need to push myself all the time. I can actually ride with my wife without being bored coasting the whole way while she pedals her ass off. Practical cycling.


I may order the book.. maybe it is the right time in my life for me to listen to him.. thanks for bumping this thread.

I'm pretty fed up personally with the whole racer boy thing. I "fit the mold" for racer boy type but after 10 years it's gotten old. My bike has a ton of drop, I have to put on my special shoes & clothes to go for a ride, I'm messing with my fit like crazy to get good power without getting saddle sores or other soreness or whatever. My only other bike is a mountain bike that is pretty darn impractical, requires 4 additional air chambers to be checked on top of the tires before every ride, can't carry any load, and also has a serious saddle to bar drop.

Just reading his take on shoes is seriously liberating. There is a part of me that wants to just get on a simple bike with the handlebars comfortably high and the seat comfortably low, and ride off in my street clothes & shoes and just have fun. I'm 99% sure I could do this, save myself a ton of money, have less comfort issues, have just as much fun, and maintain 90% of the fitness I get by spending so much more money and putting up with so much more hassle to be "racer boy". (Clipless pedals in particular are something I have really just about had enough of.)

With our first kid on the way this kind of practical cycling makes way more sense and if I got myself on a bike like that I wouldn't feel "guilty" about how fast I ride or any of that other nonsense which I have to admit I have fallen into.

Funny thing though is I'm pretty sure no matter how much I bought into this I won't be buying any of his bikes.

[cat6]

Hayrick Island (68°42′S 67°32′WCoordinates: 68°42′S 67°32′W) is a small prominent rock mass, more than 150 metres (500 ft) high, between Lodge Rock and Twig Rock in the Terra Firma Islands, off the west coast of Graham Land, Antarctica.

[Germany_chris]

I guess I'll have to buy the book, I agree with 80% of what Grant says but don't care for his bikes much.

Should be interesting.

[NHAero]

I miss the Rivendell Reader -always has interesting stuff in it.

[Ken Robb]

Grant has some interesting (odd) perspectives and his newer designs do nothing for me, but your post sums it up for me.

While I was never a racer, I evolved (or devolved depending on your perspective) from a race bike with carbon everything and a big drop to lugged steel with less drop and no carbon. No kit and no cleats unless I put the clipless pedals on. I found myself riding more and enjoying it more, no more getting ready to ride.

I'm currently riding a Rivendell All-Rounder and couldn't be happier. I can run any combination of wheels/tires from skinny fast to fat knobbies, move the bars up or down at will, put racks on it if I want, etc. It's enjoyable to ride fast or slow and not feel like I need to push myself all the time. I can actually ride with my wife without being bored coasting the whole way while she pedals her ass off. Practical cycling.

Gee, this sounds like me too.

[fiamme red]

I was a little surprised to see Grant advocating wearing a heart rate monitor (page 77 available here (http://books.google.com/books?id=UkuKs534x9EC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Just+Ride:+A+Radically+Practical+Guide+to+Ridin g+Your+Bike&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HCS1T5_jKcfe2AX_-oE9&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)).

[Lovetoclimb]

I wonder what his opinion is on Rapha!?

[fiamme red]

I wonder what his opinion is on Rapha!?Grant doesn't sell anything that is made in mainland China, while almost all Rapha stuff is made there. So that alone is a big political/philosophical difference.

[esldude]

I was a little surprised to see Grant advocating wearing a heart rate monitor (page 77 available here (http://books.google.com/books?id=UkuKs534x9EC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Just+Ride:+A+Radically+Practical+Guide+to+Ridin g+Your+Bike&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HCS1T5_jKcfe2AX_-oE9&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)).

Yeah, but his heart rate monitor is for long rides to make sure you don't push too hard. Again the idea of the unracer.

Now I have actually used them this way, and suppose others do. I only wear one sometimes. At times found myself pushing for speed too much. Wore one and decided I would ride at a rate that gave a heart rate of a certain number or less. Does let you slow down, the ride is different and refreshing. The idea has some merit. On the other hand if rode that way all the time, well there would come a time to see what speed was possible for me. Again he is just pushing his idea of the unracer to logical conclusion I suppose.

[Louis]

I miss the Rivendell Reader -always has interesting stuff in it.

Tell me about it.

They discontinued it right after I renewed for a bunch of years. (can't remember exactly how many). What a ripoff. I've been pissed at Riv ever since.

[Frankwurst]

Tell me about it.

They discontinued it right after I renewed for a bunch of years. (can't remember exactly how many). What a ripoff. I've been pissed at Riv ever since.

Me too. Drink enough vodka and you'll get over it.:beer:

[oldpotatoe]

Grant Pertersen is the Ron Paul of the cycling world. He is willing to speak truths and challenge delusions that no one else dares, but the message gets buried under the craziness of his other opinions. People dismiss him as a nut even when he is right.

Well said.

[dbrk]

Tell me about it.

They discontinued it right after I renewed for a bunch of years. (can't remember exactly how many). What a ripoff. I've been pissed at Riv ever since.

ONE issue of the Riv Reader was worth ten years of Velosnooze bull****. So I suppose we disagree.

As for Grant's ideas, well, at least he has some. That's more than can be said for the majority of guys who ride bikes. No, wait a sec. There are plenty of ideas. That's what led to Serottas looking like total crap, the company losing anything like an identity, and their inevitable failure. My point is more than caustic, it is to say simply that Petersen knows who he is and you and like that or not. I can think of very few who can be held to that standard in bicycles or anything else atmo.

[Earl Gray]

ONE issue of the Riv Reader was worth ten years of Velosnooze bull****. So I suppose we disagree.

As for Grant's ideas, well, at least he has some. That's more than can be said for the majority of guys who ride bikes. No, wait a sec. There are plenty of ideas. That's what led to Serottas looking like total crap, the company losing anything like an identity, and their inevitable failure. My point is more than caustic, it is to say simply that Petersen knows who he is and you and like that or not. I can think of very few who can be held to that standard in bicycles or anything else atmo.

Interesting how your defense of Grant Petersen lead you to bash Ben Serotta. Emotions run deep and clearly you do not stand above the fray.

[rpm]

I enjoy having informed people with strong opinions write about cycling. I'll buy his book just to help keep his words coming. Now it would be great if Craig Gaulzetti, aka the Jerk, also wrote a book. I figure if you average Grant and the Jerk, you have a pretty reasonable approach to the sport.

[Ahneida Ride]

I think that one of Grant's basic diatribes is that many of us would be
better off on bikes we can ride and not bikes we could race.

"Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies"

:banana:

[tannhauser]

ONE issue of the Riv Reader was worth ten years of Velosnooze bull****. So I suppose we disagree.

As for Grant's ideas, well, at least he has some. That's more than can be said for the majority of guys who ride bikes. No, wait a sec. There are plenty of ideas. That's what led to Serottas looking like total crap, the company losing anything like an identity, and their inevitable failure. My point is more than caustic, it is to say simply that Petersen knows who he is and you and like that or not. I can think of very few who can be held to that standard in bicycles or anything else atmo.

I am not sure why Velosnooze, the Riv Reader and even BQ can't coexist together on my nightstand....oh yeah, they can because it isn't the internet.

Racing has informed all those guys' opinions about fast and not-so-fast bikes.

[fiamme red]

I was surprised to see a review in the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/books/review/just-ride-by-grant-petersen.html?_r=1.

[Kontact]

I felt like GP really had something back in the Bridgestone days - more often then not I agreed with his design philosophies.

Now I just get the feeling that he realized that being contrary sells, and is selling that. The sum total of his sandal + underpants cycling philosophy seems to be that cycling is okay, as long as you don't do very much of it. His products aren't really about riding far or fast, just having a heavy $3000 bike to do what a $300 hybrid would do just as well.

Road bikes aren't uncomfortable to ride, even though people choose to race them. But that's an easy idea to sell, and use to sell other stuff.

[Earl Gray]

I felt like GP really had something back in the Bridgestone days - more often then not I agreed with his design philosophies.

Now I just get the feeling that he realized that being contrary sells, and is selling that. The sum total of his sandal + underpants cycling philosophy seems to be that cycling is okay, as long as you don't do very much of it. His products aren't really about riding far or fast, just having a heavy $3000 bike to do what a $300 hybrid would do just as well.

Road bikes aren't uncomfortable to ride, even though people choose to race them. But that's an easy idea to sell, and use to sell other stuff.

I suspect GP does just as much riding as the average clown on a race bike in Lycra does. Including you. I'm sure if you want to compare you millage log (which I'm sure you track them all) to his, his (not that he keeps one) would compare favorably.

My take on his philosophies boils down to seeing cycling as a hobby instead of a sport. It is no more a sport for 95% of us than driving to work is.

I also suspect that he does not care for the generally mentality of the typical anal retentive, gear and number driven dweeb that cycling is attracting these days.

Many of them are fairly unpleasant people.

[dave thompson]

Earl, of course you're speaking for yourself, no?

[tannhauser]

I don't ride my lugged steel anymore. Why?

It doesn't hold speed well.
It's sluggish accelerating.
Its steel fork is punishing compared to a carbon.
It's heavy, climbs ok but not great.
It's center of gravity is too high for the way I like a bike to handle.
It kind of fits.
It's not great on dirt.

I've ridden a bunch of Grant's bikes, they're good and comfy.

Way I see it if you're "competing" with random people on the road whether as part of your group ride or not it doesn't matter what you ride.

Where I live no one really has an attitude about anyone else except for the new porteur/iconoclast kids on a road ride dressed in wool knickers, wearing driving caps. That was pretty much last year now. I think a lot of them found out road rides are hard work.

Or maybe they kitted up and bought a carbon bike.

[Marcusaurelius]

I've always really liked the 1993 RB-1. I've also always respected his simple is better approach to bicycles. I like downtube shiftewrs but I also like campagnolo ergo shifters so I'm not a complete convert--yet.

[Kontact]

I suspect GP does just as much riding as the average clown on a race bike in Lycra does. Including you. I'm sure if you want to compare you millage log (which I'm sure you track them all) to his, his (not that he keeps one) would compare favorably.

My take on his philosophies boils down to seeing cycling as a hobby instead of a sport. It is no more a sport for 95% of us than driving to work is.

I also suspect that he does not care for the generally mentality of the typical anal retentive, gear and number driven dweeb that cycling is attracting these days.

Many of them are fairly unpleasant people.

Thank you for referring to me as a cycling clown. While I do all of my commuting in street clothes, I also ride enough to know that cyclists aren't wearing pants with enormous greased up leather maxi-pads in them because it is fashionable.

I don't know what the real Grant Peterson does - I wouldn't be surprised if he rides a light carbon bike with Look pedals when nobody is looking. But I can read, and his philosophies on riding style, equipment selection, etc doesn't describe a hobbyist who spends a lot of time in the saddle. And he seems to be suggesting that those who do are fanatics and fools.

I'm extremely moderate about cycling - I don't think everyone should act like they are training for competition, I think the equipment race is ridiculous, I think carbon fiber frames are often way too delicate. But I also know that a good road bike isn't a bone jarring, white knuckle handling, back breaker that is always about to kill you when the carbon fork fails.

Really, what gets me is his fear mongering. Common sense is a breath of fresh air: Suggesting that the carbon forks we've all been riding for 20 years are death traps is just plain dishonest. And suggesting that helmets might be more negative than positive is like extolling the social virtues of cigarettes.

I would love to hear from the GP of old who sold bikes like the RB-1. Today's GP would intimate that an RB-1 has unmanageably short chain stays and the bars are too low.

[Kontact]

Here's the way it works, in any given tube on a bike. In your left hand is a downtube that's 31.8mm in diameter. The butts (tube wall thickness as the ends of the tube) are 0.9mm thick.

Less than a millimeter, about 1/28th of an inch.

To look at it, you'd think it was nothing--that the tube was on the verge of collapse. The _belly_of the tube (mid portion, between the butts) is 0.6mm thick. Fortunately you can't see that, because that's even scarier.

Now, in aluminum or carbon or titanium or anything other than strong CrMo steel, these dimensions would be instantly foolish and dangerous, but it works in good steel, because steel has the right balance of strength, toughness, and rigidity.

So, according to GP, all butted titanium bikes, which use .89mm tubing that is typically reduced down to .6mm mid span, are "instantly foolish and dangerous".

Grant Peterson has effectively denounced Ben Serotta (first builder of butted Ti bikes), Tom Kellogg, David Lynskey and a whole bunch of really great builders/designers as incompetent idiots. Does he just not know what he's talking about, or does he really believe his ad copy????

[beeatnik]

I suspect GP does just as much riding as the average clown on a race bike in Lycra does. Including you. I'm sure if you want to compare you millage log (which I'm sure you track them all) to his, his (not that he keeps one) would compare favorably.

My take on his philosophies boils down to seeing cycling as a hobby instead of a sport. It is no more a sport for 95% of us than driving to work is.

I also suspect that he does not care for the generally mentality of the typical anal retentive, gear and number driven dweeb that cycling is attracting these days.

Many of them are fairly unpleasant people.

The dude thinks "racers" in lycra discourage people from taking up cycling. I think seeing anyone on a bike in a place like LA can change a paradigm. To many people, a bike is a bike. It's kinda like when my mom used to think that any new car was a luxury vehicle. She grew up in a 3rd world village and it took her many years to make the distinction between an econobox, a family car and a super car. All she knew, initially, was that driving was better than walking. Kno wat I'm sayin?

[Earl Gray]

Earl, of course you're speaking for yourself, no?

Me unpleasant? Never!

[Earl Gray]

... I also ride enough to know that cyclists aren't wearing pants with enormous greased up leather maxi-pads in them because it is fashionable.

...

So what is the tipping point (in milage or time) when a greased up maxi-pad is or isn't needed?

[rugbysecondrow]

And in the end, we are only talking about bikes. Folks ought not take them too seriously, GP included.

[Germany_chris]

So, according to GP, all butted titanium bikes, which use .89mm tubing that is typically reduced down to .6mm mid span, are "instantly foolish and dangerous".

Grant Peterson has effectively denounced Ben Serotta (first builder of butted Ti bikes), Tom Kellogg, David Lynskey and a whole bunch of really great builders/designers as incompetent idiots. Does he just not know what he's talking about, or does he really believe his ad copy????

It's OK to have a contradictory opinion when you've been in the business as long as all the gentlemen you listed have..

[Grant McLean]

So what is the tipping point (in milage or time) when a greased up maxi-pad is or isn't needed?

I think it's temperature.

My sometimes commute is about an hour each way, and i'm happy to ride
it in jeans or whatever when it's cool. Start sweating, and i want to have
proper cycling clothing on.

-g

[cfox]

It's OK to have a contradictory opinion when you've been in the business as long as all the gentlemen you listed have..
it's OK to have any opinion any time. that's why they are called opinions. smart people have dumb opinions occasionally, though. my Merlin Extralight with its super thin butted tubes has survived a major high speed crash, moving vans, a ferry ride or two, and general abuse without a single dent (the carbon fork is still going strong, too).

[spacemen3]

I enjoyed reading the book. I don't think Grant Peterson's tone is nearly as negative as most people in this thread seem to think. Sure, he's a contrarian, but his message is simple: Just Ride. Most people will never be cool like us -- you know, look fabulous in Spandex, crush hills in the big chainring, and ride bikes worth as much as a car. Grant tells them that it's OK to do their thing, too.

[goonster]

I was surprised to see a review in the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/books/review/just-ride-by-grant-petersen.html?_r=1.
Reviewed by no lesser light than Dave Eggers.

[fiamme red]

Reviewed by no lesser light than Dave Eggers.I admit that I've never heard of him.

I thought the review was rather weak, more appropriate for Amazon than the NYT. Then again, GP's book isn't very heavy stuff either (which is why I'm surprised the NYT deemed it fit to review).

[tannhauser]

So, according to GP, all butted titanium bikes, which use .89mm tubing that is typically reduced down to .6mm mid span, are "instantly foolish and dangerous".

Grant Peterson has effectively denounced Ben Serotta (first builder of butted Ti bikes), Tom Kellogg, David Lynskey and a whole bunch of really great builders/designers as incompetent idiots. Does he just not know what he's talking about, or does he really believe his ad copy????

I wouldn't get all indignant about his shtick. It's just marketing.

[Germany_chris]

it's OK to have any opinion any time. that's why they are called opinions. smart people have dumb opinions occasionally, though. my Merlin Extralight with its super thin butted tubes has survived a major high speed crash, moving vans, a ferry ride or two, and general abuse without a single dent (the carbon fork is still going strong, too).

My Serotta is doing fine also..

There are opinions with weight and those without though. When any of the gentlemen listed give an opinion about some form of bicycle construction it benefits us to listen. When I weigh in it's best to ignore :eek:

[Kontact]

I wouldn't get all indignant about his shtick. It's just marketing.

Why pay for a book that is all just marketing? Brochures are usually free.

So what is the tipping point (in milage or time) when a greased up maxi-pad is or isn't needed?

It depends. Are you asking about real life, or inside GPs marketing driven parallel reality?

[tannhauser]

Why pay for a book that is all just marketing? Brochures are usually free.


Well if you have to ask it is for the new acolytes or the already indoctrinated who would like their position reinforced.

The Riv Reader is indeed free, so no need for me to pay to read marketing.

[redir]

So what GP is saying is that only Pro cyclists should wear kits and we all are "nonprofessional riders pretending, or being bullied into pretending, that they’re professionals. "

So I guess kids in little league base ball should not wear uniforms too. No high school foot ball team uniforms, nope none of it unless you are pro :rolleyes:

[goonster]

No high school foot ball team uniforms, nope none of it unless you are pro
Little League and High School football would be appropriate analogies for junior races.

Do you get kitted up to throw the ball around on a Saturday afternoon in the yard?

[carlineng]

So what GP is saying is that only Pro cyclists should wear kits and we all are "nonprofessional riders pretending, or being bullied into pretending, that they’re professionals. "

So I guess kids in little league base ball should not wear uniforms too. No high school foot ball team uniforms, nope none of it unless you are pro :rolleyes:

I think you misunderstand his message, over-generalizing some of his more extreme statements. I believe Grant would say that you're free to do whatever you like. Wear a pro kit if it's what makes you happy (I do, and it does), but there is a huge population of potential cyclists who are scared away from the sport because so much of the focus in both cycling culture and marketing is on racing. Racing should be the exception, not the rule. If you identify with the exceptional community, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[Earl Gray]

Why pay for a book that is all just marketing? Brochures are usually free.



It depends. Are you asking about real life, or inside GPs marketing driven parallel reality?

Since GP doesn't post here, the question was to you.

For you, how short of a ride would it need to be before you choose not to grease up a maxi pad?

[Kontact]

Since GP doesn't post here, the question was to you.

For you, how short of a ride would it need to be before you choose not to grease up a maxi pad?

I don't use chamois cream. I'll switch to bike shorts for anything over 15 miles. But I wouldn't wear underwear either way.

[bfd]

The Riv Reader is indeed free, so no need for me to pay to read marketing.

Question, is Grant/Riv still making/offering the Riv Reader? Or is it now in book format, e.g., his new book?

FYI, I use to be a member and initially learned alot of really useful things. However, his approach became weirder as he ventured into tweed, double top tubes, 650b (which does seem to have a purpose in making older "racing-style" bikes more useful or providing another wheel size for small bikes) and camping equipment (hmm, I could use a new sleeping bag).

Its become almost unbearable when he started on his carbon bashing and prediction of doom and gloom, e.g., anyone using a carbon fork is basically going to die!

It also seems irrelevant that he's calling a bike a "toy," yet, bashes people for wearing team clothing. For me, I wear "street clothes" for my commute, but anything over 20 miles or so, give me my lyrca! My team jerseys - Ben & Jerry, Diet Rite and the Michelin Man, see a pattern....:banana::eek::butt:

Moreover, I know of several new riders who recently gotten into cycling and they don't race. However, they want comfortable clothing for long rides and like their new ti, aluminum or carbon bikes. What the hey, if carbon or racer apparel is what gets them out and riding; then so be it, ride it!

Instead of doing his negative campaign of bashing carbon or racers, I wish he would instead provide a more positive message about his strength - selling lugged steel bikes. His Riv custom are adored by thousands of customers and he actually has/had a long wait list, although not as extensive as Richard Sachs or Vanilla (which I believe are now in the 6+ year range!). He also works with some of the best builders around - currently Nobilette, Waterford, Toyo and some firm in Taiwan. Raving about his steel bikes should be the message.

At the end of the day, Grant/Riv seem to be surviving and that's what really matters. Good Luck! :eek::bike::butt::hello:

[tannhauser]

Question, is Grant/Riv still making/offering the Riv Reader? Or is it now in book format, e.g., his new book?

FYI, I use to be a member and initially learned alot of really useful things. However, his approach became weirder as he ventured into tweed, double top tubes, 650b (which does seem to have a purpose in making older "racing-style" bikes more useful or providing another wheel size for small bikes) and camping equipment (hmm, I could use a new sleeping bag).

Its become almost unbearable when he started on his carbon bashing and prediction of doom and gloom, e.g., anyone using a carbon fork is basically going to die!

It also seems irrelevant that he's calling a bike a "toy," yet, bashes people for wearing team clothing. For me, I wear "street clothes" for my commute, but anything over 20 miles or so, give me my lyrca! My team jerseys - Ben & Jerry, Diet Rite and the Michelin Man, see a pattern....:banana::eek::butt:

Moreover, I know of several new riders who recently gotten into cycling and they don't race. However, they want comfortable clothing for long rides and like their new ti, aluminum or carbon bikes. What the hey, if carbon or racer apparel is what gets them out and riding; then so be it, ride it!

Instead of doing his negative campaign of bashing carbon or racers, I wish he would instead provide a more positive message about his strength - selling lugged steel bikes. His Riv custom are adored by thousands of customers and he actually has/had a long wait list, although not as extensive as Richard Sachs or Vanilla (which I believe are now in the 6+ year range!). He also works with some of the best builders around - currently Nobilette, Waterford, Toyo and some firm in Taiwan. Raving about his steel bikes should be the message.

At the end of the day, Grant/Riv seem to be surviving and that's what really matters. Good Luck! :eek::bike::butt::hello:


The Riv Reader is still free. You can download it from his site.

What I have noticed, and I'm not NOT a fan of his bikes, is a lot of people have bought into his "hate" of racer bikes (even though he has come out with one) and promulgate it on the web, attacking anyone who rides them as "stupid and naive". Here, even.

The negativity serves as a line in the sand, because some of the guys/gals who have bought into his thinking need to feel different even though all we're doing is riding bikes.

[Rueda Tropical]

Cycling should be a very big tent. Bicycles have so many forms and applications. Practical transport, fitness, competitive sport, collecting, equipment fetishism, fashion, hobby, play, etc.,...

When people start getting tribal and dismissive of types of bikes, apparel and riding that are different from their own preference, use or application it gets tired fast. It goes from big tent to religious demagoguery.

GP has done a lot to broaden the cycling universe in the US. GP should realize it's not a zero sum game. It's not one less Riv sold for every Carbon racer sold. More bicycles of whatever kind on the roads is better. Lycra, tweed or hipster skinny jeans its all good. Roads get safer for cyclists the more cycling traffic there is. More cycling businesses make more interesting stuff the bigger the market is. The more Specialized and Treks et sold the bigger the market for Rivs, custom and other types of bicycles.

[spacemen3]

Again, I don't think the tone of the book was negative. Grant Peterson has his opinions, and I appreciate the fact that he's not afraid to voice them. Do I agree with them all. Nah. But I respect the dude behind my first mountain bike, a Bridgestone MB-1, and who showed me both consideration and patience in putting together my custom Rivendell. Our ideas on what makes a bike great are very different, but, in the end, he's a cycling enthusiast just like the rest of us. The fact is: mustachioed dudes in tweed look just as ridiculous as fat dudes in lycra. ;)

[559Rando]

I admit that I've never heard of him.

Dave Eggers is a fascinating guy. I highly recommend A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius. And I have a lot of respect for the 826 writing workshop/tutoring centers.

The Riv Reader is still free. You can download it from his site.


The Readers actually have some pretty decent technical bits and discussion on geometries from time to time, which I enjoy.

I'll probably never own a Riv. I don't care to, but my Noodle bars have been some of my smartest bike purchases yet.