So, am I crazy or just plain stupid???

[William]

I'm out on my ride today, coming around the back side of Carrs pond. A rural area not to highly traveled. As I'm approaching the New London Turnpike (a dirt road), two big gravel trucks pull out onto the road. The road starts a gradual climb at that point. I pop it into the big ring and sprint up to the back of the second truck and get into the bubble (draft) and start getting pulled up the hill at about 40-45 mph. It's such a cool feeling to be soft peddling and getting pulled along at a good clip. It reminded me of when I was racing at OSU and sometimes on our training rides we would jump on the back of a Log truck, or a Semi loaded with hay bales out on Peoria road. One time I was the last to hang on to a truck loaded with bales and got pulled for a few miles at about 50 -55 mph. Anyway, I stayed about 5-6ft back and on the right corner of the trailer so I could bail around if they suddenly hit the brakes. When we got to Division Road over by the Dunes I pulled off and went on my way.

Crazy? I've been called that many times. It may seem that way, I occasionally take calculated risks, try to be as safe as possible and visualize & account for possibilities. I know the road and where all the potholes are in this area.

So? Crazy or just plain stupid? Either way, it's a blast to do when the rare opportunity presents itself. :D

William

[weisan]

Breaking Away Part II in the making...I think you just wanna become a movie star.

[ergott]

I've done it a few times. It's risky as hell, but awesome! I prefer vehicles that have a back window so I can see through the car/truck. I like to know what is in front of them as well.

[Ginger]

I like the gravel trucks that ply their trade on the 401 across Ontario. It seems to be common that they have two huge bumper stickers on the back of the truck. The one on the left reads: PASSING SIDE. The one on the right reads: SUICIDE.

[zeroking17]

I draft Zambonis all the time.

[Tmogul]

JUST STUPID!!!!!!!





j/k big guy.....I couldn't help it although being crazy doesn't really help the image either. :p Is this a trick question? Either way you get to start a fight and use those martial arts skills of yours. hmmmmm
:D :D :D

[Bradford]

When I lived in Arizona, I did an MS ride from Phoenix to California. The rest stop crews all had RVs and leapfroged each other to keep up with the ride, so at one point on each leg of the ride you would get passed by a string of RVs going about 40.

Since they were Arizona roads, you could see forever in both directions. After seeing a bunch of the RVs go by, I decided to jump in and got behind one. I was able to hang on for a mile or two and flew past the pack. The cool thing was that everyone went nuts and screamed for me when I flew by behind the fan. :banana:

The guy I was riding with told me I was about the biggest idiot he had ever met. Sometimes I wonder how I lived long enough to get some sense.

[William]

Bradford, I knew you had a wild side. :cool:

Tmogul, you calling me stupid? ;) :D

William

PS: I don't advocate that anyone try this drafting manuever. If you do, do so at your own risk (standard disclaimer).

[Dekonick]

I dare ya to try that on I70 after you pass Eisenhowertunnel as you go into Vail...

[weisan]

I dare ya to try that on I70 after you pass Eisenhowertunnel as you go into Vail...

Ehh...Deko-pal, will your medic truck be the first responder if sumthin' happen??!

[Jeff N.]

You're crazy for doing it, sure. You're only stupid if you eat it! Jeff N.

[bcm119]

Idiots. You and Flydhest both.

Kidding. Seriously, it is alot of fun but I get nervous coming out of the draft, when the wind starts getting all crazy from either side. Sometimes its really bad, but maybe only for lighter guys like me. Log trucks on Peoria road...I know them well by now, but I know the ones on Bellfountain even better, because theres hardly any f#*$%&@ shoulder.

[chrisroph]

No problem, I used to do it all the time on the Pacific Coast Highway in Southern California when I lived down there. I would catch trucks at red lights and they accelerated slowly enough that you could stay in the draft up to 55 mph. Here in Portland, we don't get the same opportunities but we can occasionally catch a draft from a passing truck or car. The biggest danger is from rocks, potholes or other road debris as it is difficult to see such items when you are drafting a vehicle. Crazy? Not at all. Drafting vehicles is a gas and very good speed training. Dangerous? Not really. You just have to keep your hands on the brake levers and keep your eyes open.

[Fixed]

you only live once and got to have fun while you can bro,......hey you could come down and ride with me i need a messenger helper, we could bother all the buses and taxies Cheers Bro

[pale scotsman]

You Sir, are nuckin futs. Imagine wiping at that speed!!! I used to work with this kid in college at a LBS in Clinton, MD right outside DC and he'd come up with all types of crazy stories. He once told us he got a ticket doing 70 on his bike drafting a semi downhill on 301 somewhere near Upper Marlboro. We got a heck of a kick out of that until he went to court and got points taken off his drivers license. No ****, the dude was for real, he brought in the ticket and the papers from court.

[Brian Smith]

We got a heck of a kick out of that until he went to court and got points taken off his drivers license. No ****, the dude was for real, he brought in the ticket and the papers from court.

no good.
because someone does that on a bicycle does not mean their motor vehicle record should be impacted. Despite the fact that a cyclist is required by law to heed most traffic laws pertaining to motor vehicles, a cyclist is not operating a motor vechicle, travels with much less momentum, and furthermore is less of a civil nuisance.
that's why: Int'l driving permit (cheap from AAA) or Passport or state issued ID card is the more beneficial and proper ID to present to arresting officers whilst cycling...
Although the motivation for me to carry one of these is to avoid a lack of due process, doing so has once or twice led to a simple lecture in lieu of a ticket.

jeez, that sounds bad, just how many times have I been pulled over????

[dirtdigger88]

I checked with a local cop- in Mo. it will not go against your driving record- but I do carry an id card with me- not my drivers lic. :p

Jason

[Fixed]

Bro they don't give no stinkin tickets here they just shoot ya Cheers...... :beer:

[Bill Bove]

Niether crazy nor stupid. I used to go out around the Wachusett res all the time and latch on to two or three tucks for five to ten miles each for motor pacing. No better training.

[Kevan]

Falling isn't an option.

[William]

Log trucks on Peoria road...I know them well by now, but I know the ones on Bellfountain even better, because theres hardly any f#*$%&@ shoulder.
Oh yes, I remember that well. You're hugging the line and they blast by you so close that you feel like you could stick out your elbow and touch them. Then the blast of wind hits you as they go by and you start bobbling around to keep your line......where there's "hardly any f#*$%&@ shoulder". :eek:

you only live once and got to have fun while you can bro,......hey you could come down and ride with me i need a messenger helper, we could bother all the buses and taxies Cheers Bro
Do you cover relocation expenses? If I was down that way on vacation or business I would bring my bike and race around with you. YEE HAW!!! I have a lot of experience getting harassed (and harassing back) by Tri-Met bus drivers in Portland. :p ;)

You Sir, are nuckin futs.
That sounds dir-ty. :D

Niether crazy nor stupid. I used to go out around the Wachusett res all the time and latch on to two or three tucks for five to ten miles each for motor pacing. No better training.

When I was racing for a now defunct team, we used to go out motor pacing on the Banana Belt course by Champoeg park. We used a Jeep Cherokee, tied open the back door so our coach could talk to us as we we racing around. A fun drill was to have six to eight of us behind the Cherokee rotating two lines while trying to stay in the draft. We would wind up the training by slowly increasing the speed of the Cherokee with everyone fighting to stay on. On a winter rain bike with a 52 x 12, I was the last one hanging on at around 59 mph before I completely spun out the gear and finally got sucked out the back. That my friend, is a blast!!! :banana: :cool:

William

[Ken Lehner]

I compromise by staying off to the side so that the driver can see me in his right outside mirror. Still get a huge draft effect (~36mph easily on the flat), but plenty of "bail room" if needed.

[Spinner]

For those who are drafting at 50 to 55 mph, what kind of gears are you mashing and what is your cadence? :rolleyes:

[BURCH]

Since you definately understand the risks and are a very experienced cyclist, I would not call you stupid. Definately crazy though.

stay safe

[chrisroph]

William--The roads around Champoeg are great.

[Spinsistah]

William, I think it's very cool, but I worry you'll get creamed some day. Until then, you need a jersey that says "Cutters" :)

[William]

Since you definately understand the risks and are a very experienced cyclist, I would not call you stupid. Definately crazy though.
Being crazy keeps from going insane. :D (I don't remember who sings that one)

William--The roads around Champoeg are great.
Another great area I miss riding.

William, I think it's very cool, but I worry you'll get creamed some day.
Yes, that crosses my mind from time to time. But ripping down a decent or bumping elbows in a pack sprint can be dangerous too.

....Until then, you need a jersey that says "Cutters"Can it have Orange on it? ;)

William

[Bradford]

Being crazy keeps from going insane. :D (I don't remember who sings that one)



With these changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;
Nothing remains quite the same.
With all of my running and all of my cunning,
If I couldn't laugh, I just would just go insane.
If we couldn't laugh, we just would just go insane.
If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane.

Jimmy Buffett
Changes in Attitudes, Changes in Latitudes

[Tom]

I can't jump on the back of a car and keep it there if they take off too fast, and I don't have the nerve to swing in early so I get close enough to give me more chance.

I like riding home on 5S in the morning when all the dump trucks are coming down from the gravel pit. I get 2-3 mph bump everytime they hit me with their draft.

The only chance I got to draft off a semi full of hay bales I passed him cause he was staying real slow on the big downhill, but while I was back there it was great! I was basically coasting at 30-35 or so. The wall of air I hit when I got out front of him was a real education. Drafting is good... but any time I'm right on the tail of a car or truck I worry slightly about debris appearing from underneath them and giving me a rude surprise.

On the spinning out question: 50-55 I have no idea, but I know I can still put pressure on the pedals at 45mph in a 53-12. On a long, long downhill BTW. Lord knows I'd love to be able to sprint at 45 but I might get 30 on a good day.

[Roy E. Munson]

On a winter rain bike with a 52 x 12, I was the last one hanging on at around 59 mph before I completely spun out the gear and finally got sucked out the back

Right.

[William]

Right.

Just going by what my coach and the driver told me Roy. Take it or leave it.

William

[Roy E. Munson]

If you believed that, I have a nice piece of land I can sell you.

[William]

If you believed that, I have a nice piece of land I can sell you.
I figured you would. You ever do any drafting off a big truck Roy? 50 to 55 is no sweat. Tucked in behind a Cheokee, doable. I have no reason to discount their word. They never gave me any reason to believe they wouldn't tell the truth. So, I'll take that land of yours, I'll just need to see the deed first please.

William

[Roy E. Munson]

BS. Complete BS.

Tour riders bombing down the highest descents barely reach 60 mph, even on a straightaway. So I doubt some Cat 3/4/5 is gonna do it behind a Cherokee.

Cippolini motorpaces at 90kph, so you're pretty impressive to be faster than him. Track star Ryan Bayley has reached a maximum speed in racing of 74kph but has reached speeds in training up to 88kph. His sprint is faster than any of us could go if we were physically tied to a Cherokee. And I might add that Olympic Triathlete Gold Medalist Simon Whitfield motorpaces at a maximum speed of 70kph, a world class triathlete going in a straight line can hoild hos own with a road cyclist.

[bostondrunk]

I figured you would. You ever do any drafting off a big truck Roy? 50 to 55 is no sweat. Tucked in behind a Cheokee, doable. I have no reason to discount their word. They never gave me any reason to believe they wouldn't tell the truth. So, I'll take that land of yours, I'll just need to see the deed first please.

William

Willy,

Are you talking miles per hour or kilometers per hour?
Spinning out on a 52 x12 will only get you into the low 60's -km/hr- I believe.

60 mph = 96km/hr. Even drafting off ten trucks, I don't think you could hit 96km/hr on a flat road on a bike.

Come one, admit it, coach was hittin da bottle during those training sessions.....;)

[William]

Well boys, You may or may not be right about the Cherokee. I didn't see the speedo. I went by what they said, and they were pretty pshyched when they told me.
I've done close to 60 mph on decents. That's not the domain of just Tour riders. And drafting behind a big truck makes a big friggin bubble behind it that pulls you along...plus no wind resistance. So yes, I've done 50-55mph behind them, that I could verify by my bike computer on my racing bike.

If you want, get a Cherokee and come on down and let's see what we can do behind it. You claim I can't. Let's see if I can.

William

[bostondrunk]

Well boys, You may or may not be right about the Cherokee. I didn't see the speedo. I went by what they said, and they were pretty pshyched when they told me.
I've done close to 60 mph on decents. That's not the domain of just Tour riders. And drafting behind a big truck makes a big friggin bubble behind it that pulls you along...plus no wind resistance. So yes, I've done 50-55mph behind them, that I could verify by my bike computer on my racing bike.

If you want, get a Cherokee and come on down and let's see what we can do behind it. You claim I can't. Let's see if I can.

William

You supply the beer and the women??!!? :beer: :D

[flydhest]

dunno 'bout the rest, but descending at 60mph is no big deal given enough of a hill.

[William]

Fastest Bicycle Speed
The highest speed ever achieved on a bicycle is 268.831 km/h (167.043 mph), by Fred Rompelberg (The Netherlands) at Bonneville Salt Flats, Utah, USA, on October 3, 1995. His record attempt was greatly assisted by the slipstream from his lead vehicle. Fred has been cycling professionally for nearly 30 years and during that time has held 11 world records.

link (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=43641)

167 mph drafting behind a vehicle. 50 -55 mph is nothing when you have a good draft.

William

[William]

You supply the beer and the women??!!? :beer: :D

I'll supply the beer, Rhea Basset will bring the women. :D

William ;)

[Roy E. Munson]

Ahhhhh, he is/was a professional cyclist. His bike is a hidge (multi) gear bike.
He doesn't start from zero, he hangs on to a bar on the race car which brings him to +200km/h speed before he starts pedalling. Oh yeah, the car was a ridiculously modified dragster and he was inches off the back of it. It's a completely controlled environment built specifically to set that record.

Keep grasping though.

[Ken Lehner]

Well boys, You may or may not be right about the Cherokee. I didn't see the speedo. I went by what they said, and they were pretty pshyched when they told me.
I've done close to 60 mph on decents. That's not the domain of just Tour riders. And drafting behind a big truck makes a big friggin bubble behind it that pulls you along...plus no wind resistance. So yes, I've done 50-55mph behind them, that I could verify by my bike computer on my racing bike.

If you want, get a Cherokee and come on down and let's see what we can do behind it. You claim I can't. Let's see if I can.

William

59mph in a 52x12 requires a cadence of about 170. Can you spin up to 170?

[bostondrunk]

Ahhhhh, he is/was a professional cyclist. His bike is a hidge (multi) gear bike.
He doesn't start from zero, he hangs on to a bar on the race car which brings him to +200km/h speed before he starts pedalling. Oh yeah, the car was a ridiculously modified dragster and he was inches off the back of it. It's a completely controlled environment built specifically to set that record.

Keep grasping though.

What are you, Mr. Freakin Trivial Pursuit!?!?!?! :p

[William]

59mph in a 52x12 requires a cadence of about 170. Can you spin up to 170?

I don't know. I don't worry about my cadence is. I worry more about smooth pedal strokes and power application.

Like I said. Let's find out. I'll give it a go again.

Ahhhhh, he is/was a professional cyclist. His bike is a hidge (multi) gear bike.
He doesn't start from zero, he hangs on to a bar on the race car which brings him to +200km/h speed before he starts pedalling. Oh yeah, the car was a ridiculously modified dragster and he was inches off the back of it. It's a completely controlled environment built specifically to set that record.

Keep grasping though.

So what, he did 167 mph. I'm serious Roy, if you don't believe it could be done and you want to bust my chops, let's give it a whirl and see.

William

[bostondrunk]

Yer all idiots!!!!!!

:banana:

[William]

Yer all idiots!!!!!!

:banana:

That's for sure. :D

William

[Fixed]

Ken can't some people spin at 170? but I wouldn't think for very long . Cheers

[weisan]

"My fastest-ever speed was 75mph, freewheeling down a hill in the Pyrenees..." - from a retired former 7X tdf winner (Read (http://www.lancearmstrongfanclub.com/uktimesonline.html))

William-pal is undiscovered talent...get it?
He, like Climb, needs a challenge as big as the Mt Washington HillClimb in order to reach his full potential and to put to sleep some unresolved past issues plus silencing all his critics.

I recommend a field test with a UCI-sanctioned empire, WADA-administered pre-/post-race drug test with followup checks every week for the next 10 years, an IOC-accredited stadium, NHTSA-approved motorpacing vehicle, special bike sponsored by Serotta in their latest Meivici special edition, fully equipped with S-H-I-M-A-N-O nonetheless ......and last but not least, podium girls supplied and certified by both governing bodies of Miss World Beauty Peagent and Mensa.

[William]

"My fastest-ever speed was 75mph, freewheeling down a hill in the Pyrenees..." - from a retired former 7X tdf winner (Read (http://www.lancearmstrongfanclub.com/uktimesonline.html))

William-pal is undiscovered talent...get it?
He, like Climb, needs a challenge as big as the Mt Washington HillClimb in order to reach his full potential and to put to sleep some unresolved past issues plus silencing all his critics.

I recommend a field test with a UCI-sanctioned empire, WADA-administered pre-/post-race drug test with followup checks every week for the next 10 years, an IOC-accredited stadium, NHTSA-approved motorpacing vehicle, special bike sponsored by Serotta in their latest Meivici special edition, fully equipped with S-H-I-M-A-N-O nonetheless ......and last but not least, podium girls supplied and certified by both governing bodies of Miss World Beauty Peagent and Mensa.

Umm, I have a twin. Is that going to be a problem? :confused:

William ;)

[Spinsistah]

Can it have Orange on it? ;)

William
ABSOLUTELY.

[William]

ABSOLUTELY.
:cool:

[chrisroph]

60 mph downhill is certainly doable. This summer in Colorado, I hit over 55mph solo. We regularly go 52-54 descending Bald Peak in a group Bald Peak provides a 12-14% straight 1200' descent. If I had been in a group in Colorado, I have no doubt that I would have broken 60.

I've hit in excess of 50mph many times drafting SUV's and trucks, although not for long. I've never seen 59mph on my computer.

Cippo is no doubt doing traditional motorpacing, behind a small motorcycle or scooter, which provides much less of a draft than a cherokee or a car. It simulates race speed and a race draft and is one of the best speed workouts. Scooter motorpacing is nothing like drafting a car, which provides much more draft. I did some motorpacing behind a scooter last week in Bend and easily hit 42mph on a 5% descent.

As William said, the draft behind a cherokee is very good, and you can see through the back and front windows out ahead of you. That makes you feel much safer, although it does not allow you to see the road conditions just ahead of you, which is the main danger of auto motorpacing. I can easily believe that William hit in escess of 50 mph behing a cherokee driven on the roads around champoeg park by someone intending to provide pace. 59 may be a bit of an exaggeration but not much. Someone with supplesse who regularly rides on a velodrome and trains on a 79 inch gear can easily spin in the 140-160rpm range and run it up into the 170's for an instant.

[Roy E. Munson]

Cippo is no doubt doing traditional motorpacing, behind a small motorcycle or scooter, which provides much less of a draft than a cherokee or a car

Behind a car, not a scooter. They were pulled over for having bikes on the highway.

[William]

60 mph downhill is certainly doable. This summer in Colorado, I hit over 55mph solo. We regularly go 52-54 descending Bald Peak in a group Bald Peak provides a 12-14% straight 1200' descent. If I had been in a group in Colorado, I have no doubt that I would have broken 60.

I've hit in excess of 50mph many times drafting SUV's and trucks, although not for long. I've never seen 59mph on my computer.

Cippo is no doubt doing traditional motorpacing, behind a small motorcycle or scooter, which provides much less of a draft than a cherokee or a car. It simulates race speed and a race draft and is one of the best speed workouts. Scooter motorpacing is nothing like drafting a car, which provides much more draft. I did some motorpacing behind a scooter last week in Bend and easily hit 42mph on a 5% descent.

As William said, the draft behind a cherokee is very good, and you can see through the back and front windows out ahead of you. That makes you feel much safer, although it does not allow you to see the road conditions just ahead of you, which is the main danger of auto motorpacing. I can easily believe that William hit in escess of 50 mph behing a cherokee driven on the roads around champoeg park by someone intending to provide pace. 59 may be a bit of an exaggeration but not much. Someone with supplesse who regularly rides on a velodrome and trains on a 79 inch gear can easily spin in the 140-160rpm range and run it up into the 170's for an instant.

My question about Mario and the other pros that Roy pointed out is what where they pacing behind? My guess would be a motorcycle. I think "what" you draft behind makes a big difference on how much of a bubble is created, and thus how much effort is needed to stay in it. Granted, the Cherokee's back door lifts up so it sticks a foot or so above the roof line, and sticks out behind the vehicle 3 to 4 feet. At least 2 feet or more past the back bumper. This creates a pretty good envelope to draft in. Easier to do then stay on behind a motorcycle which creates much less draft. Besides, as Chrisoph points out, that area is perfect for doing it.

William

Edit: Roy says car.

[chrisroph]

90 k's for cipo behind a car is probably loping along, nowhere near all out. Roy, where's the land you have for sale? Real estate is a much better investment than new serottas. :)

[fiamme red]

59mph in a 52x12 requires a cadence of about 170. Can you spin up to 170?Read the posts by Jobst Brandt in this rec.bicycles thread (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles/browse_frm/thread/90e6d6895c5906e1/1c0fecc58ae3229b?hl=en#1c0fecc58ae3229b). And some of the replies are very amusing! For example:

>>All motor paced records are derck.

Isn't that derckz, as in Emmy Derckz, the professional rider with 585 DNF's, five Tours-de-France Lanterne Rouge titles, and three starting-line flats in the Worlds? The rider who proved that the best way to set the Hour Record was to go to low altitude, where the athlete can obtain a higher oxygen density, by building the custom floating velodrome on the Dead Sea? And then motorpacing after the officials on hand collapsed from heat stroke?

[chrisroph]

Good thread. Here is an excerpted piece:


Mike Secrest set a world record Friday, bicycling 1,216.81 miles in
>>24 hours.

>>Secrest, 37, pedaling in the draft of a tractor-trailer around a one-mile
>>oval at Phoenix International Raceway, averaged 50.66 mph...



24 hours at an average speed of over 50mph. So, what is so astonishing about an able sprinter going 5-8mph faster than that for an instant?

[Ken Lehner]

Ken can't some people spin at 170? but I wouldn't think for very long . Cheers

I was in no way challenging the initial claim. I was merely stating the fact that to ride at such a speed with such a gear required a cadence of about 170, and then asking the claimant if that was reasonable for him to do a workout that ended at that cadence. If not, his claim is incorrect. If so, it would then be necessary to determine the power required, which would require the coefficient of drag in that environment. On the other hand, can anyone hit 59mph on rollers without resistance with that gear?

[Fixed]

Good thread. Here is an excerpted piece:


Mike Secrest set a world record Friday, bicycling 1,216.81 miles in
>>24 hours.

>>Secrest, 37, pedaling in the draft of a tractor-trailer around a one-mile
>>oval at Phoenix International Raceway, averaged 50.66 mph...



24 hours at an average speed of over 50mph. So, what is so astonishing about an able sprinter going 5-8mph faster than that for an instant?
Case Settled William wins. Ken I just didn't know. I know I can't hit 170 but I thought other people might that's all.Thanks

[William]

I was in no way challenging the initial claim. I was merely stating the fact that to ride at such a speed with such a gear required a cadence of about 170, and then asking the claimant if that was reasonable for him to do a workout that ended at that cadence. If not, his claim is incorrect. If so, it would then be necessary to determine the power required, which would require the coefficient of drag in that environment. On the other hand, can anyone hit 59mph on rollers without resistance with that gear?

I've posted in the past that I can stand and get into the 50's on the rollers. Again, drafting you also get pulled along.

William