OT - Air and Space Museum [Archive]

Dekonick

02-18-2012, 12:25 PM

dave thompson

02-18-2012, 12:52 PM

Being the supreme airplane geek, I'm ashamed to say that this is one air museum that I haven't been to. It is on my bucket list however.

bicycletricycle

02-18-2012, 01:03 PM

that place is the sweetest ever, i like all the cut up engines and the SR-71 and everything else too.

summilux

02-18-2012, 02:03 PM

It would be cool to see a bicycle museum akin to this...
:)

Check out this place in Burlington, VT. Museum + bikes you can buy:

http://www.oldspokeshome.com/full-museum-image-gallery

kramnnim

02-18-2012, 02:11 PM

There's a mountain bike museum of sorts in NC... mombat.org, I think.

firerescuefin

02-18-2012, 02:18 PM

BumbleBeeDave

02-18-2012, 03:04 PM

. . . with my daughter 6-7 years ago. It just went on, and on, and on . . . and ON! We'd finish with one giant hanger, see a little hallway, go through there--and there's ANOTHER giant hangar!

Planes I'd only seen in movies and books. The Enola Gay. A Concorde. The SR-71.

Yes, WELL worth the trip out to Dulles.

If you can't get to DC, consider the Kansas Cosmosphere in Hutchinson. Also a world class museum with its own SR-71 (hanging in the lobby!), the Apollo 13 command module, and outstanding exhibits on the Cold War, German rocketry, Imax Theater. and the world's largest collection of . . . space suits!

http://www.cosmo.org/index.cfm

BBD

Louis

02-18-2012, 03:19 PM

National Museum of the AirForce - Wright Patterson, Ohio

+1

The XB-70 Valkyrie they have is very impressive.

Wilkinson4

02-18-2012, 03:24 PM

If you can't get to DC, consider the Kansas Cosmosphere in Hutchinson. Also a world class museum with its own SR-71 (hanging in the lobby!), the Apollo 13 command module, and outstanding exhibits on the Cold War, German rocketry, Imax Theater. and the world's largest collection of . . . space suits!

+1. Was on a solo bike tour and had no idea it was there. Was a huge treat and liked it so much went back a few years later.

mIKE

gdw

02-18-2012, 03:29 PM

I'd like to check out the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome sometime.

tiretrax

02-18-2012, 03:31 PM

Frontiers of flight museum in Dallas is nice, but small. It has a few planes on loan from the Smithsonian including an Apollo capsule.

Bob Ross

02-18-2012, 03:32 PM

soulspinner

02-18-2012, 05:08 PM

firerescuefin

02-18-2012, 05:28 PM

Yeah, my family went an I got the t-shirt of the SR71. Never shot down but 6 of the 13 crashed on their own..... :confused:

Roughly 50 built (varying designations), 12 lost...after originally being taken out of service a handful were taken back from museums and put back into service for a short period. Very cool aircraft.

palincss

02-18-2012, 05:55 PM

I'd like to check out the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome sometime.

By all means, do! It's great fun. And, you can structure a very nice bike ride that will take you there at the midpoint. Ride, catch the show, finish the ride. (We did that at the Eastern Tandem Rally one year.) What could be better? Well, maybe one thing: taking an extended flight yourself in one of those biplanes. And that's available, too. http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/

Litespeed_Mike

02-18-2012, 06:22 PM

+1 on the Dulles Nat'l Air & Space Museum

http://www.nasm.si.edu/udvarhazy/

+∞ on The Old Spokes Home in Burlington. Amazing place and collection and a friendly staff. Oh, and I live 3 blocks from there! Best free bike museum ever.

Aircraft carrier museums (New York, Charleston, Corpus Christi, San Diego, Alameda) are awesome as well. Having served aboard a CVN, I must say they are marvels of technology, engineering, and human teamwork.

PaMtbRider

02-18-2012, 07:36 PM

We spent a rainy day of vacation, a couple years ago at Dulles instead of bike riding in the area. They had a free, volunteer led tour of the museum that took about 45 minutes to an hour and was definitely worth the time.

When the BMW motorcycle owners association held their national rally in Rhinebeck several years ago they put on a special airshow for the event. I also got to ride in an open cockpit Steerman biplane at Rhinebeck. I don't have my pilots license but always thought it would be a cool thing to do.

benb

02-18-2012, 08:45 PM

I love the A&S museum..

A few other good ones to hit..

- Boeing HQ - previously mentioned, they have an A-12 (Early version of SR-71) or a YF-12.. They also have a space shuttle and a few nice Migs.

- Kitty Hawk, NC - the Wright flyer there is a replica, Smithsonian has the original, but there is other good stuff to see there

- The museum at Kennedy Space Center and the tour.

- The New Aviation Museum at Pearl Harbor is amazing (you might get a WWII pilot as a tour guide if you go before they are gone!)

- USS Intrepid Museum in NYC - They also have an A-12, and they also have a replica of the torpedo bomber George Bush Sr. was shot down in (with his markings) among other cool stuff. IIRC they have a few interesting Soviet aircraft on board as well.

The Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs is also a very cool place to visit..

steelbikerider

02-18-2012, 09:54 PM

is much more impressive than the one on the mall
I thought the SR-71 at Dulles was a Transformer and sacrificed himself to save the Pyramids and the rock city Petra that holds the golden fleece ;)

staggerwing

02-18-2012, 11:18 PM

I'm an aviation nut...Air and Space is awesome.

Couple of others really worth seeing

Boeing museum of flight - Seattle
Naval Air Museum - Pensacola NAS, Fl
National Museum of the AirForce - Wright Patterson, Ohio

Wright Pat is semi-local, and pretty dear to my heart. A very special place, and it won't cost you a dime to park or enter.

Big tip: Get in early and get your name on the list to see the annex displays. These are the Presidential and R&D Hangers. Technically, they are "on base" and the only access is through a first come, first served free shuttle. It is a no go on days of elevated security alert.

Honestly, I'm a little "meh" on the Presidential aircraft, but the R&D hanger puts me into sensory overload every time. Nowhere else in the world are you going to be able to stick your nose up the business end of an X-15. The only other example hangs in downtown, DC. And no, I didn't touch it.

I haven't been in a few years, but at last viewing, there weren't many ropes or cordones in the hanger, just an request to respect the artifacts. Can even take a tripod for photography, if that is your thing.

Here is an overview of the R&D hanger collection:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/exhibits/r&d/index.asp

Old Rhinebeck is another must do for serious aviation geeks. Go on a fine summer weekend, and enjoy the purposely cheesy, but very fun airshow. Those that understand are in absolute awe at the quirky airfield and what they fly out of there. Where else are you going to see a Bleriot fly, not very high, but still, as nutty as can be.

And real rotary engines on some of originals and repicas too. No, not the Mazda variety. In the WWI version, the crank was bolted to the airframe, and prop was bolted to the crankcase/radial cylinder combination which rotated for cooling. Throttle, was via magneto control, which adjusted how many cylinder fired on each revolution. Time warp only slightly begins to describe the spectacle.

Louis

02-18-2012, 11:32 PM

And real rotary engines on some of originals and repicas too.

The first time I saw one of those I really did a double-take. Can't remember what museum it was in.

staggerwing

02-18-2012, 11:37 PM

The first time I saw one of those I really did a double-take. Can't remember what museum it was in.

But, they actually fly 'em at Rhinebeck. The smell of cooked castor oil and the crazy aural experience has to be experienced in person.

Louis

02-18-2012, 11:41 PM

and the crazy aural experience has to be experienced in person.

I agree. Radial engines sound so neat.

Dekonick

02-19-2012, 01:02 AM

One of the coolest displays (they were all awesome) at the Dulles A&S museum was the cut outs of jet engines. My 6 y/o thought they were neat, but to me I could actually delight in the design. Beauty - absolute engineering beauty. It was also cool to see the suits tested, as well as those worn in space. I am amazed that they do not know which parts were used in space V.S those tested! How can you not know?!? While NASA has some amazing accomplishments, there is an amazing lack of accountability for the hardware to get men to the moon and back... hard to believe! Neat stuff though... and complex problems to solve with 1950-60's technology. Slide rules sent men to the moon and back! Think about it!

But my Bedford has a better ride! :beer:

Louis

02-19-2012, 01:09 AM

Beauty - absolute engineering beauty. It was also cool to see the suits tested, as well as those worn in space.

Made in part of Nylon tricot, the same material used in brassieres...

soulspinner

02-19-2012, 03:45 AM

Roughly 50 built (varying designations), 12 lost...after originally being taken out of service a handful were taken back from museums and put back into service for a short period. Very cool aircraft.

Had read on the net that only 13 were made, could be wrong. My dad says they leaked fuel on the ground cause at speed and altitude the skeleton expanded several feet from high temps. Soviets shot over 6000 times at it with missiles, it simply outran them :cool:

Cinci Jim

02-19-2012, 07:08 AM

Wright Pat is semi-local, and pretty dear to my heart. A very special place, and it won't cost you a dime to park or enter.

Big tip: Get in early and get your name on the list to see the annex displays. These are the Presidential and R&D Hangers. Technically, they are "on base" and the only access is through a first come, first served free shuttle. It is a no go on days of elevated security alert.

Honestly, I'm a little "meh" on the Presidential aircraft, but the R&D hanger puts me into sensory overload every time. Nowhere else in the world are you going to be able to stick your nose up the business end of an X-15. The only other example hangs in downtown, DC. And no, I didn't touch it.

I haven't been in a few years, but at last viewing, there weren't many ropes or cordones in the hanger, just an request to respect the artifacts. Can even take a tripod for photography, if that is your thing.

Here is an overview of the R&D hanger collection:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/exhibits/r&d/index.asp

I grew up in Fairborn, right next to Wright-Patt. I have to say I have not been back for years - I went there a few times too many as school field trips. Before the current home of the museum it was in another building with an Atlas missile in front - at Christmas they put a Santa fact on it.

97CSI

02-19-2012, 07:44 AM

I'd like to check out the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome sometime.Great fun. The original and repro WW1 aircraft and the rotary engines are something else. Gives one a good idea of what it was like flying/fighting before the advent of anything in the way of safety features. Back in the day when 'men were men', and all that. Went there on a bike tour back in the early '80s and can't imagine it isn't even better today. Some very rare airplanes.

wtex

02-19-2012, 09:12 AM

A couple of other notables:

The Strategic Air Command Museum between Lincoln and Omaha, Ne -- this place is HUGE, they have a B-36, B-52, B-1, an Avro Vulcan bomber, and just about everything else in the US inventory, and all inside the museum. The B-36 is a giant. As you enter the museum, you'll face the business end of a ceiling mounted SR-71
http://www.sasmuseum.com/exhibits/aircraft/

Near Las Cruces, NM I came across the White Sands Missile Museum:
http://www.wsmr-history.org/index.htm
I had been out on the dunes at White Sands park and had some time to kill, so figured I'd spend an hour at the museum. Five hours later . . . They have a German V-2 in its own building, with panels on one side removed so the internals are visible. They're attempting to have every missile or rocket ever launched by the US on display, and other than the Shuttle, I don't know what they might be missing. I was surprised how forthcoming the museum displays are about the post war German scientific development. Oh, you can take pictures as long as you are facing the Organ mountains. The other direction, towards the Range, is a no-no. I've heard there's an unshielded nuclear reactor somewhere out there.

godfrey1112000

02-19-2012, 09:24 AM

Freaking awesome! If you have never been to the hanger near Dulles, GO! They have a Real SR-71!!! It is BAD ASS! Behind that lies Enterprise... the first Shuttle. There are Mig's next to their US counterparts for the Korean and Vietnam era wars, and everything else you can possibly imagine. Amazing to see the development from the first military plane, made from wood and cloth, to the newest fighter. It would be cool to see a bicycle museum akin to this...

A MUST SEE! At least once in your lifetime this is worth a visit.

:)

http://www.pimaair.org/view.php?pg=21

Pima A/S Museum, SR-71, B-52 and all the rest including Migs,
the nice part is, there are placks in front of each piece of equipment with detail of service and deployment,

Theme Hangers, WWII, Korea, and the B-17 display, you can look up into it, it is just a tin can, how they made it back, wow

Air Force 1, 707

Also with the Base near by you can drive you car off road and see the "mothball" fleet and how the parts are taken off to be used on other planes, some of the old planes are just bones, all the meat has been picked off, it is a great day when you are not on the bike, hope to be there in about 3 weeks for an afternoon

worth the money and bring a bottle of water, it is dry out there

Elefantino

02-19-2012, 09:26 AM

Ramjm_2000

02-19-2012, 09:36 AM

If your going to be in Dayton at the AF Museum, you might as well stop in to see the Wright Bros original bike shop in downtown Dayton. I went there during my last TDY to WP and thought it was really interesting.

firerescuefin

02-19-2012, 09:42 AM

http://www.afarmamentmuseum.com/exhibits.shtml

About a 25 minute drive from Destin. Well worth the drive over if your in the area on vacation and need a break from the beach.

gdw

02-19-2012, 09:49 AM

March Air Force base in Southern California has a museum with over 70 US and Soviet planes including a SR-71, B-17, and a B-29. It's worth a visit if you're in the area.

maximus

02-19-2012, 09:53 AM

I'm really lucky to live so close to the one in Dulles. If you are local to DC and haven't been yet�you are really missing something special.

It's free after 4pm on Sundays!

ultraman6970

02-19-2012, 10:32 AM

Hmmm probably the parking is free after 4 sundays but the museum itself is free all the time.

The best thing to do is to park in the dulles mall center, then for 1 buck take the regular bus that goes to the airport and stops at the museum.

Nice place...

Anybody has been in the Cape Canaveral one ??

RFC

02-19-2012, 12:01 PM

A couple of other notables:

The Strategic Air Command Museum between Lincoln and Omaha, Ne -- this place is HUGE, they have a B-36, B-52, B-1, an Avro Vulcan bomber, and just about everything else in the US inventory, and all inside the museum. The B-36 is a giant. As you enter the museum, you'll face the business end of a ceiling mounted SR-71
http://www.sasmuseum.com/exhibits/aircraft/

I have seen many of these air museums, but not all. The SAC rates very high. Three enormous warehouses. All of the planes above including many more, such as a U-2, Doolittle folding wing B-225, and the Gremlin, a pod shaped fighter meant to be carried on a B-36 for protection on transcontinental flights. Oh, and you can reach out and touch the Black Bird, maybe the coolest plane ever made. And, I have to mention the Vulcan again -- it's built like a fighter for giants.

Gummee

02-19-2012, 01:37 PM

Did any of y'all get a kick out of the Transformers movie where they went to the Annex, woke up the SR-71 then walked out the side door to Davis-Monthan in Tucson?!

Saw that and had to cringe. I've lived in both places so recognized both immediately.

M

GregL

02-19-2012, 04:21 PM

This may be my favorite thread ever! I'm a "retired" pilot (flew bizjets for 10 years during my 20s and 30s), aeronautical engineer, and amateur aviation historian. Every male on my father's side of the family was a pilot, with most of us having some form of aerospace career. Four more cousins on my mother's side are pilots too. We had engineers, military pilots, airline pilots, corporate pilots, and one astronaut in the clan. With aviation in my blood, I have been making the rounds of aviation museums since I was a child.

Back on the off-topic, the discussion has covered some of my favorite museums. A few more thoughts that come to mind:

- If you are at the Pima Air Museum in Tuscon, make sure to sign up for the bus tour at Davis Monthan AFB. It's a great way to see the boneyard up close.

- Very near to the Pima Air Museum is the Titan Missile Museum (http://www.titanmissilemuseum.org/index.php). It is an eye opening view into the cold war.

- The San Diego Aerospace Museum in Balboa Park (http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/) shows the great impact that SoCal had on aerospace history.

- Not to far from western New York lies the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum (http://www.warplane.com/) in Hamilton, Ontario. Time your visit to see the Avro Lancaster fly. Four Merlins in tight formation make quite a sound!

Regards,
Greg

dogdriver

02-19-2012, 08:47 PM

Ogden's Hill Air Force Base (http://www.hill.af.mil/library/museum/) has a great museum, including the last SR-71 ever built.

Also, a B-17, B-24, B-25, B-26, B-29, P-30, P-40, P-47 P-51 and a lot of modern stuff.

Quite true.I had blown this place off for 15 years-- finally went as an escort with my then 3rd grader's class. I was blown away at the quality of the displays-- every fighter made since WWII, including every century-series fighter and everything (except the F-22) that the AF is currently flying. They even had an F-15 that I had actually flown, which made me feel very old...

As an aside, don't pass on a chance to go to Air and Space on the National Mall. The history there is overwhelming-- I got a little weepy looking at Al Shepherd's Mercury capsule... it was there that he was responsible for the greatest quote in the history of aviation...

93legendti

02-19-2012, 08:57 PM

I just googled air museums-I can't believe how many there are in the US!

Here's my son in an operational jet-let's see if anyone can ID this dinosaur... :)
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab27/adambaker29/d95d1a27.jpg

Elefantino

02-19-2012, 09:22 PM

The most significant craft at Udvar-Hazy:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal102/americabyair/images/640/S.402.p9-P.2005-5717_640.jpg

Louis

02-19-2012, 11:37 PM

They even had an F-15 that I had actually flown, which made me feel very old...

Just be thankful you can't say that about the F-4. ;)

oldpotatoe

02-20-2012, 08:00 AM

Just be thankful you can't say that about the F-4. ;)

Why not, I flew the F-4 for over 10 years(then the F-14) and love to see them in a museum. Yep, getting old but w/o the F-4, the F-15 would have never happened. AND I have 'tree-ed' more than a couple of F-15s(and F-16s) in my lowly 'dog'(A-4F+), yep, I can fly slower than you.

dogdriver

02-20-2012, 09:15 AM

Just be thankful you can't say that about the F-4. ;)

Phantoms Phorever! Had a chance to fly them teaching Germans at Holloman, but instead opted to do straight-ins to full stops for the rest of my life. Do miss the old days...

erolorhun

02-20-2012, 09:47 AM

We visited NewYork six months ago and I insisted to go to the Intrepid. The SR71 is awesome. The Concorde as well.

cuda2k

02-20-2012, 09:51 AM

After a scan of the thread, noticed no one had mentioned Evergreen in Oregon where the Spruce Goose now lives. They also have an SR-71 and a lot of other aircraft from the early days through space exploration. I went a few years ago to see the Goose again after seeing it as a kid when it was still in Long Beach.

(the object over head the DC-3 is part of the H-4's wing)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z1OvTPRG_1k/S92YlE5VvOI/AAAAAAAACBQ/riTdWFX48u0/s800/IMG_2652.jpg

Piper in the foreground, part of the B-17 behind, don't recall what's on the left there.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RDsSk8lsbLQ/S92YyRMQKSI/AAAAAAAACB4/wOTzd1TftUc/s800/IMG_2677.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b78IGSiRBqI/S92Y2JQxfjI/AAAAAAAACCI/Nht5hMnj5LM/s800/IMG_2680.jpg

Mark McM

02-20-2012, 10:15 AM

And real rotary engines on some of originals and repicas too. No, not the Mazda variety. In the WWI version, the crank was bolted to the airframe, and prop was bolted to the crankcase/radial cylinder combination which rotated for cooling. Throttle, was via magneto control, which adjusted how many cylinder fired on each revolution. Time warp only slightly begins to describe the spectacle.

It's a common misunderstanding that rotary engine power was controlled by magneto grounding. In reality, rotary engines had both throttles and mixture controls. From the Wikipedia page on rotary engines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine) :

Rotary engine controlIt is often asserted that rotary engines had no carburetor and hence power could only be reduced by intermittently cutting the ignition using a "blip" or coupe momentary push-button switch, operating in a manner directly opposite that of a kill switch for other types of internal combustion engines, which grounded the magneto when pressed, shutting off power to the spark plugs and stopping ignition. However, rotaries did have a simple carburetor which combined a gasoline jet and a flap valve, or "bloctube" style throttling device, for throttling the air supply. Unlike modern carburetors, it could not keep the fuel/air ratio constant over a range of throttle openings; in use, a pilot would set the throttle to the desired setting (usually full open) then adjust the fuel/air mixture to suit using a separate "fine adjustment" lever that controlled the fuel valve.

Due to the rotary engine's large rotational inertia, it was possible to adjust the appropriate fuel/air mixture by trial and error without stalling it. After starting the engine with a known setting that allowed it to idle, the air valve was opened until maximum engine speed was obtained. Since the reverse process was more difficult, "throttling", especially when landing, was often accomplished by temporarily cutting the ignition using the blip switch.

93legendti

02-20-2012, 10:34 AM

Phantoms Phorever! Had a chance to fly them teaching Germans at Holloman, but instead opted to do straight-ins to full stops for the rest of my life. Do miss the old days...
I love the Israeli Air Force name for the F-4: Karnas. In English, "sledgehammer".

oldpotatoe

02-20-2012, 10:42 AM

Phantoms Phorever! Had a chance to fly them teaching Germans at Holloman, but instead opted to do straight-ins to full stops for the rest of my life. Do miss the old days...

Park City-you must be Delta..know a guy named Steve Howell?

spacemen3

02-20-2012, 11:00 AM

I have seen many of these air museums, but not all. The SAC rates very high. Three enormous warehouses. All of the planes above including many more, such as a U-2, Doolittle folding wing B-225, and the Gremlin, a pod shaped fighter meant to be carried on a B-36 for protection on transcontinental flights. Oh, and you can reach out and touch the Black Bird, maybe the coolest plane ever made. And, I have to mention the Vulcan again -- it's built like a fighter for giants.

My friend and fellow cyclist is director of the SAC museum. We opened up the old Vulcan a couple of weeks ago and squeezed ourselves in. I don't think anyone had been in it since the 80's. That was definitely the highlight of my year. Watching the Vulcan take-off and bank remains one of my fondest memories from childhood. That thing was louder than Motorhead! :) Hands down it's my favorite aircraft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffJ0WX1Xct0