I guess we won't see the bike today...

[ergott]

Hey James/anybody at Serotta,

When can we see a pic of this bike?

I think there is a bit of a buzz going on here and we want to know.

[aLexis]

If you come to Saratoga Springs and stalk Jay or Ben as they are leaving for a ride, you will catch a glimpse of two very fine Meivicis. Until then, I really don't know when pictures will start appearing. It's been a really busy week around here, but I'm sure James will have official word soon. Paris Hilton came by the factory today, and she said the bike is "HOT!"

[Sandy]

Unfortunately, she said that I am NOT!


Sandy

[Dekonick]

I sure hope the Meivicis go down less often than Paris... :rolleyes:

[David Kirk]

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't know what "Meivicis" means or stands for. Has this been discussed?

Dave

[vaxn8r]

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't know what "Meivicis" means or stands for. Has this been discussed?

Dave
Yeah, I think it means "Victory".

[Climb01742]

the victory is being able to pronounce or spell it. why not simply "victory" itself? doesn't the chosen name add, unfortunately, to the snooty, poseur image that some folks have of serottas? wouldn't "victory" better capture the genuine attitude of the company, the one you feel as you stand on the factory floor or talk to serotta employees? does the chosen name really reflect the company? not the company i know and admire.

[Bruce K]

Climb, as I said elsewhere - I believe the name translates as "My Victory" from Italian.

Given the motto of the Davis Phinney Foundation is "Every Victory Counts" and that the first bike is the raffle bike, and I believe, Davis has been living in Italy....

Besides, May-a-vichi isn't all that hard. ;)

Have an awesome Mt. Washington....

BK

[William]

James won't post a picture until I leave the forum.....and I just chained myself to the Serotta server Ha ha ha ha.....

William ;)

[Climb01742]

Besides, May-a-vichi isn't all that hard. ;) BK

easy for you to say! :beer: and you enjoy the sunflower!

[Bittersweet]

I'm pretty sure it is not Italian but Latin. Vittoria is victory in Italian . History scholars will remember that Veni Vidi Vici is Julius Ceasar "I came, I saw, I conquered". My guess then is it is more like latin for "My Victory".

I'm sure some yoda is watching and will correct me.

[David Kirk]

As in " I love the smell of napalm in the morning.......it smells like meivicis"?

I'm guessing that's not what Ben had in mind.

Dave

[Bruce K]

Hey, what the heck do I know - I studied German in school. :rolleyes:

BK

[67-59]

[QUOTE=David Kirk]As in " I love the smell of napalm in the morning.......it smells like meivicis"?

Great line from a great movie....

[bostondrunk]

Looks like James was logged on last night. Maybe he'll give pics today...
Looking at Ben's ID, looks like he hasn't logged onto his forum since 2003!

[christian]

I'm pretty sure it is not Italian but Latin. Vittoria is victory in Italian . History scholars will remember that Veni Vidi Vici is Julius Ceasar "I came, I saw, I conquered". My guess then is it is more like latin for "My Victory".

I'm sure some yoda is watching and will correct me.

I think you're correct on the intent. But one should be careful when one fools around with Latin, for a couple reasons...

First, one must recall that But one should recall that there was no soft C sound in Latin in the era around 1AD. In fact, I don't think C was palatized until a few hundred years later. And additionally, if one subscribes to the classical pronunciation, all Vs are really pronounced as Ws.

As such, the proper pronunciation of the new bicycle is something like "May-ee-weeki". May you all enjoy your new May-ee-weekis.

Source: Allen & Greenough's New Latin Grammar (natch!)

- Christian

[FunkyPorcini]

Read down

=================

Victory Awaits! Serotta announces the new MEIVICI!

Saratoga Springs, NY.



Speculation about Serotta’s new bike has grown in recent months since the announcement that serial number 00001 of the company’s new super-bike will be awarded to this year’s raffle winner for the Davis Phinney Parkinson’s Foundation. Now, the secret is finally out – Serotta Competition Bicycles will officially introduce its all-new, all-American, all-carbon, custom-fitted bicycle at this year’s Interbike Bicycling Expo to be held September 26-29 in Las Vegas.



Meivici (may-VEE-chee) is a composite word straight from the Serotta dictionary with Latin roots meaning – my/mine; victory/conquest and according to Serotta, it’s a metaphor for personal victory or achievement. Company founder and CEO Ben Serotta explains, “This bike exemplifies all that we stand for – quality, service, American craftsmanship, performance, and customization, and delivers it to the Nth degree. Thus, the Meivici is like our personal victory. Yet cycling is all about personal victories, great and small, whether conquering internal demons of defeat, cresting an impossible climb, finishing your first century or winning a World Championship. So we thought the definitive symbol of victory for us, would by definition be a symbol of personal victory to everyone that may come to possess a Meivici.”



Bringing the Meivici to production represents a level of commitment well beyond the normal expectations of a small independent bicycle company, an effort not for the feint-of-heart entrepreneur. To accommodate the Meivici, Serotta recently moved its administrative offices to a 200 year old farmhouse that sits next to the factory on site to make room for new machinery and needed manufacturing space. Jared Porter, the company’s manufacturing supervisor acknowledges, “The staff here is excited, confident and ready to apply their unique skills to this new form of personal cycling expression in all carbon.” Porter added, “Today, almost all bicycles, including all-carbon models are produced in Asia and the ones made here use mostly imported parts. We are maniacal sticklers for over-all quality so maintaining our production exclusively ‘in-house’ allows us the control we need. We’re one of the very few companies that can say “We’re American made,”….and really mean American made. Building it here also gives us greater control over our intellectual properties…which abound in a bike like the Meivici.”



Jason Clark, Serotta’s Director of Product Development who has overseen the daunting Meivici project states, “This bike has exceeded our expectations every step of the way. Prototype tests have shown that the Meivici will live up to our product ideals- increased performance values plus Serotta’s highest manufacturing standards of precision, strength, safety, longevity and aesthetic detail.” Adding, “The Ottrott (currently the Company’s flagship model) has offered the most personalized ride performance of any bicycle previously built, from geometry, ride performance tuning and unique finishes. The Meivici offers more ways to personalize performance and appearance than ever before.”



According to Serotta, “Just like the Ottrott has been the industry’s most lauded road bicycle of the last three years, we are confident that the Meivici will equally impress the most jaded cycling aficionados.” The composite construction that’s employed enables Serotta to establish torque and load specifications for each part that exceeds the tunable range of metallic components, and the Meivici takes full advantage of the materials capability. “With the help of Reynolds Composites lead engineer Mike Lopez, the Meivici meets Serotta standards in every way,” said Serotta. “Our goal behind every new product is to deliver a bicycle that can distinguish itself as the best in its field. This is not the first all carbon custom frame to hit the market, but it’s by far the most performance tunable, the most customizable in every way from fit to finish. Our goal is simple, it’s not important to be the first, it’s not important to be the lightest, it’s only important that it’s the best. We’re confident that the Meivici is the best all carbon bicycle ever built.”



The custom made Meivici will enter normalized production in early 2006. If you just can’t wait, the company says it will produce a very Limited Release of 21 Meivici bicycles between October and December to ease the transition into full (albeit still limited) production capability. Serotta says it will begin accepting orders for the specially marked Meivici LR on August 18.



If you can’t wait until news coverage of Interbike…Serotta says you can take a sneak peek August 20, 2 at the Davis Phinney Foundation’s annual Sunflower Revolution in Cincinnati, Eurobike (Germany) September 1-4 and at the San Francisco Gran Prix, September 3-4.

[Bradford]

As such, the proper pronunciation of the new bicycle is something like "May-ee-weeki". May you all enjoy your new May-ee-weekis.

Words derived from Latin are not Latin, they are English words with Latin roots. Many English words have either Latin or Greek roots, but few have latin or Greek pronounciations.

[csb]

malkovich

[Tom]

"As such, the proper pronunciation of the new bicycle is something like "May-ee-weeki"."

Dario Pegoretti may be listening to Zappa, but somebody was listening to Prine... "Let's Talk Dirty in Hawaiian" perhaps?

[christian]

Words derived from Latin are not Latin, they are English words with Latin roots. Many English words have either Latin or Greek roots, but few have latin or Greek pronounciations.

Unlike victory, victor, and other words based on vincere, the word "vici" is not common English word with a Latin root. It's a Latin word.

As such, I don't think you can say that Meivici is "derived" from the Latin in any formal sense. It's just a made-up compound word in Latin. Now, since Ben made it up, I'll allow him to pronounce it any way he likes. But no one with a high school comprehension of Latin will, upon seeing it, pronounce it that way.

Besides, I like May-ee-weeki.

- Christian

[FunkyPorcini]

Perhaps I am wrong but anybody that spends the amount of money they are asking for this bike can pronounce it however they friggin' want. As far as I'm concerned after 8K MEIVICI sounds a lot like AIR-loom. Or as csb says "Malkovich" and for eight thousand clams he'd be right in my book.

[Bill Bove]

Enough already, I can't sleep wondering what all the overtime I'm going to be working will be for!! SHOW ME THE BIKE!!!!

Ben, I really don't want to do this but if I have to I will come to Saratoga Springs and camp out on Geyser Rd until you come out with one of the new bikes.

[Bruce K]

Bill;

I think Ben is already on his way to Ohio with his bike. You will be too late.

Besides, if you camp out on Geyser Road, one of the neighbors might try practicing his skeet shooting in the backyard.... no wait, that's somewhere else....no wait, that's political.....oh, rats. :crap: :no: :crap:

I'll bring pix next week. :D

BK

[flydhest]

Bill;

Besides, if you camp out on Geyser Road, one of the neighbors might try practicing his skeet shooting in the backyard.... no wait, that's somewhere else....no wait, that's political.....oh, rats. :crap: :no: :crap:

BK

he can ally himself with a left-leaning cyclist group . . . what should we call it? roll-on.org?

[Serotta_James]

Head lug assembly of Ben's prototype frame.

[dirtdigger88]

you big tease, James

Jason

[weisan]

Just as I thought...the new bike is nothin' more than a rebadged older model LOOK KG frame that I have sittin' in my car right now. The first thousand bucks get it, ANYONE???!!! :D

[ergott]

Head lug assembly of Ben's prototype frame.

Dura Ace!!!! Are you kidding me!!!

That bike should have RECORD baby!!!!




Thanks for the pic. When can we see more????????

[William]

Look! Shimano!!

William ;)

[dirtdigger88]

Dura Ace!!!! Are you kidding me!!!

That bike should have RECORD baby!!!!




Thanks for the pic. When can we see more????????

shimano is a sponsor for the raffel bike

Jason

[Ozz]

As in " I love the smell of napalm in the morning.......it smells like meivicis"?

I'm guessing that's not what Ben had in mind.

Dave
"charlie don't surf"

[ergott]

shimano is a sponsor for the raffel bike

Jason
Excuses, Excuses. Lake they can't make more than one!

[William]

"charlie don't surf"

"There's nothing like the smell of Napalm in the morning. It smells like, like Victory".

William

[ergott]

"There's nothing like the smell of Napalm in the morning. It smells like, like Victory".

William

You missquoted the movie. I should read...

"There's nothing like the smell of Napalm in the morning. It smells like, like Meivici"!

[William]

You missquoted the movie. I should read...

"There's nothing like the smell of Napalm in the morning. It smells like, like Meivici"!
Stupidy stupiy stupidy. :crap:

William ;)

[Argos]

I LOVE it!! I'll Take it! Make that 3!

[weisan]

you big tease, James
Jason

Alright alright, dirt-pal, YOU WIN!
We'll show a little bit more skin...this time is bottom up! ready??

http://alicehui.com/serotta/meivici/meivici.jpg

[ergott]

POLYCARBONITE LUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



YES




:banana:

[Ozz]

"There's nothing like the smell of Napalm in the morning. It smells like, like Victory".

William
"You smell that? Do you smell that?... Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. ... The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end... "

[Jeff N.]

"You smell that? Do you smell that?... Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. ... The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end... "You left out the "....not one stinkin' **** body!" Jeff N. PS:"Nothin' can kill Barnes except BARNES!"

[William]

"You smell that? Do you smell that?... Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. ... The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end... "


I thought I was closer then that. :crap: It's been a long time, I need to watch AN again.

William

[aLexis]

Just as I thought...the new bike is nothin' more than a rebadged older model LOOK KG frame that I have sittin' in my car right now. The first thousand bucks get it, ANYONE???!!! :D

Not even close to that frame. :)

[Skrawny]

I promise to take a bunch of pix when they come to town in the 1st weekend of Sept.
-s

[1centaur]

"It's not important if it's the lightest" - it's relatively heavy for CF (which is unavoidable with big lugs like that).

To paraphrase:

"It's the most customizable in terms of fit..." - that would be quite a trick

"...finish..." - there are a lot of custom shops out there to finish carbon, but maybe Serotta's got something unique that can't be replicated, though that's doubtful

"...and performance" - here's where something interesting may be occuring. As I understand the Calfee/Crumpton/Parlee process, they specify their own unique mix of attributes from a U.S. CF tube supplier to produce the ride quality they think is desirable. Calfee lets the customer specify extra stiff or super stiff or regular; Parlee lets customers add the extra wrap of CF for more vibration damping; I don't know what Crumpton can do if you want something other than his best effort. Calfee/Crumpton/Parlee eschew the classic lug-n-glue construction of, say, the C40 as ride deadening - glue is bad (and heavy). Each has found a unique way (gussets/don't want to say/super heating?) to join their specified tubes in a way that increases road feedback and reduces dead glue feel. Likewise Scott has developed its mitered joints to reduce weight and increase feedback. I forget how Trek has advanced its construction techniques from the 5200 to the Madones.

I am guessing that Serotta has chosen to accept the weight of lugs in order to offer full customization, but perhaps has found a way to minimize glue even with a lug system. More interestingly, I wonder if it's possible that Serotta has worked a deal with Reynolds where it can specify tube characteristics on the fly, rather than fully in advance like Calfee/Crumpton/Parlee. It does not seem like a stretch to change the computer instructions for layup on the fly, but it would be inefficient for Reynolds, and that might explain the high price (probably lower than $8k after the first batch). Alternatively, and less interestingly, Serotta may have arranged for Reynolds to deliver 1 of, say, 10 different tube types depending on the ride characteristic the customer wants (kind of like Seven's 1-10 scale for various characteristics). In this case, just as Seven has it's stock version, Serotta would have a stock version at, perhaps, a lower price point (unlike Seven).

My bottom line - I would not be interested in a lugged, heavy Serotta carbon model with what I expect to be oh so subtle differences between tube choices at anything more than $2500 for the frame, since I know I very much like the choices I can get at the other major makers in what I am presuming is a lighter model (light without compromising comfort, which is what I think Serotta is implying is a trade-off, which probably is the case with the Scott, for example). On the other hand, until Calfee/Crumpton/Parlee can offer individual ride tuning, Serotta may have its own schtick for a while, and some buyers will go for that. I look forward to the comments of competitors.

Of course, maybe I'm reading WAY too much into that press release :)

[Serotta_James]

Test 54cm weighed in at less than 1050 grams...
It's only going to get lighter from there.

[Argos]

Was that the sound of my Jaw hitting the Ground? I think so....

My next Serotta Frame will be less then 1000gm. I'm going to go hold my dog, and have a good cry!

Once again, you guys rock.

[dirtdigger88]

thats impressive- I cant wait to see the weight of a 60 cm

James does this mean Serotta will start publishing weights of bikes?

I know -- I know too many variables to do that- just asking :p

Jason

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but I don’t think 1050 grams for a carbon frame is at all remarkable. If that’s WITH the fork, then I’ll start to be impressed.

BBDave

[oldguy00]

Test 54cm weighed in at less than 1050 grams...
It's only going to get lighter from there.

Like the Calfee Dragonfly, Scott, Giant, etc.

Serotta will sell everyone they build because of the name recognition.
Hey, good for them if they can do it!

[vaxn8r]

. . . but I don’t think 1050 grams for a carbon frame is at all remarkable. If that’s WITH the fork, then I’ll start to be impressed.

BBDave
No, it's not remarkable but it places them well in the pack. If it handles and rides like a "Serotta" with a 2.3 lb weight. How is that bad? I haven't ridden sub 1kg frames but word is ....whippy....unless maybe you're a lil guy.

[Climb01742]

with a time or parlee, you can easily build a sub-15 pound bike that is anything but whippy.

my guess is this is basically an ottrott with carbon lugs. and what has serotta always been known for? fit. what is the one (thus far) unfulfilled "need" in carbon frames? highly customized fit. we can (and have) argued until the cows come home about most folks "need" for custom. but given serotta's heritage, and this theoretical market opportunity, i'd guess the big sell will be custom fit.

if you can fit a stock time, parlee, calfee, giant, specialized, etc...the need for custom becomes questionable.

but there may be a bigger issue. steel and ti are about the craftsmanship and skill of individuals. so money and size of company making it are non-issues. but carbon is different. the capital investment and machinery needed to really do carbon right is huge from what i understand. there are some bike companies with an r+d budget equal to serotta's sales. scoff if you will at chinese carbon but where else in the world is there that ability to fabricate cutting edge carbon? steel and ti are about craftsmanship. carbon is about technology and fabrication. it's just a different game. it's a game that may not play to a small company's strength. the small companies that have succeeded at carbon only do carbon, like parlee and calfee. to succeed in carbon, a company may have to go big, like trek, specialized, giant. or go single-material, like parlee. both of those routes would fundamentally change serotta. the passing of the CSi may hint at which road lies ahead.

[William]

but there may be a bigger issue. steel and ti are about the craftsmanship and skill of individuals. so money and size of company making it are non-issues. but carbon is different. the capital investment and machinery needed to really do carbon right is huge from what i understand. there are some bike companies with an r+d budget equal to serotta's sales. scoff if you will at chinese carbon but where else in the world is there that ability to fabricate cutting edge carbon? steel and ti are about craftsmanship. carbon is about technology and fabrication. it's just a different game. it's a game that may not play to a small company's strength. the small companies that have succeeded at carbon only do carbon, like parlee and calfee. to succeed in carbon, a company may have to go big, like trek, specialized, giant. or go single-material, like parlee. both of those routes would fundamentally change serotta. the passing of the CSi may hint at which road lies ahead.

Interesting. I don't think Serotta is going to drop thier lower price point offerings anytime soon, but it's an interesting perspective to ponder.

William

[vaxn8r]

....if you can fit a stock time, parlee, calfee, giant, specialized, etc...the need for custom becomes questionable....

Ahh, but the first two you mentioned do offer full customization. What they don't offer is the Serotta "fit system". So you then have to know exactly what you want.

[TimD]

Test 54cm weighed in at less than 1050 grams...
It's only going to get lighter from there.
I think the downtube on my 63cm OS Legend weighs 1050 grams. But wait, there are upsides to this:

* My Marcelo, which isn't that light, feels that much lighter.
* In the second remake of 'Planet of the Apes', a Legend Ti will be sticking up out of the sand next to Miss Liberty.

:)

TimD

[aLexis]

scoff if you will at chinese carbon but where else in the world is there that ability to fabricate cutting edge carbon?
.

Saratoga Springs, NY. done

[Brian Smith]

and Utah...
Has anyone ever built a model airplane?
Craftsmanship is not a magic wand that you can buy for $300,000.
Craftsmanship is doing it over and over and figuring out not only what to do but why you do it.
Without many many Ottrots under Serotta's belt, there would be no Meivici.
It's not that taiwan/china is a place where they "can" do carbon.
It's that taiwan/china is a place that bikes from the largest companies are built, period. Switching processes for the next product does not involve a radical shift for them. From a craftsperson's point of view that is a tough pill to swallow, tough to accept as reality, but really it's true. OK, today we will not braze, today we will not weld, today we will glue. Big deal, get over it. Mass produced stock bikes are done that way. Done.
Guess what - there are some folks at Serotta who have figured out what it takes to nicely bond stuff together in a bicycle frame.
On top of that, Serotta has spent a characteristically large amount of money to source the best quality parts possible to be able to offer to their customers some of the best bikes done Serotta's way that happen to be made almost entirely from carbon composites. All of this talk about the possible modulus level (is today's high modulus the high modulus of 2015 anyway?) of a head tube is bordering on lurid.
Serotta has never, particularly in their most prestigious models, skimped on materials. Does anyone think that for some reason they're starting to now? Serotta's literature does not talk all about what goes into a frame materially, because what matters more than materials is the skill and attention with which the materials are put together to create the whole of the frame. I might not have believed that as a student, but as one who crafts, it is now very obvious to me. Any promotional material that speaks primarily about the "exotic" materials with "biggest" numbers that their product is "crafted" from, with no depiction/description of that crafting should be viewed with suspicion, "imo."

It's true that it takes money to "do" carbon fiber "right" in a bike frame. If one buys a Meivici, they, no doubt, are paying part of this price. They are paying more, however, for the "right" than the "do." Despite being hot, carbon fiber is not uber-expensive per unit, given ample units.

check this perspective: anyone can buy a kit of steel parts for a basic brazed frame for $200. anyone can but a kit of carbon parts for a basic glued frame for around $500. There exists the same reason that you don't want to build your own brazed steel frame with a $200 parts kit in your basement that you don't want to glue your own parts kit carbon frame for $500. The reason is that there are commercial outfits set up to do it for you, and do a much better job, and who source more expensive and superior parts, for much much less than you could do so for on your own. If you want the fabrication to be "right," the configuration, including fit, to be right, and the materials to be so good as to never be the limiting factor in any of the previous two, and the extreme material properties possible with carbon fiber are calling your name, then the Meivici is calling YOUR name! $7400 or so for a frame is in line for what is costs to get the best frame in carbon fiber, especially given the Ottrot. There is a difference between being a customer for a $7k+ frame or not and the Meivici being a bargain or not. Suffice it to say, Serotta was not trying to reach bargain hunters with the Meivici. That there are bargains out there (how about almost any US/North American steel framebuilder inserted here, or even Crumpton to be sure and maybe more relevant for some) is not at all in doubt. Some Serotta customers want a lighter frame than an Ottrot. Now they can get one without giving up riding a Serotta, and all that means.

I'm still of the mind that steel is the best frame material for me, so maybe whatever I've got to say about it is therefore moot, but it's not price that makes me balk at carbon composite frames, and I CERTAINLY don't balk at this price any more than I balk at the price of an Ottrot. I must be a price balker, since there are plenty of people, I can assure you, who find value in the Ottrot.

Nobody complained like this when forks got all carbon went from $150 to $350 or more.... It's the cost of the way things are progressing.
Thankfully, for the "value" shoppers, Serotta is continuing some other full custom frames, such as the CIII... Vote with your dollars, let's see who wins, probably everyone.

OK, if you made it this far through my blathering, you should at least get to see a picture related to the Meivici...

[Sandy]

Do you really think that you can beat me up to Lake Desolation, with me on my Ottrott ST (or CSi) and you on a Meivici? :)


Sandy

Much success to Serotta with the Meivici.

[Smiley]

Brian , I hear you pal and I am inline for a drink of the Kool Aid , I have peeked at the product and it looks GREAT . You all have done a great job at Serotta constantly re-inventing yourselves . What do you think the biggest challenge will be in steping into another medium and having to prove yourselves against Benchmarks in Carbon building ( Parlee and Calfee ) . I say foo-wey to those who thought an Ottrott was not a carbon bike , why did you not just build the lugs in Ti rather then carbon ? Would it have effected the ride one bit or was it to call the bike all Carbon more important ?

[Brian Smith]

Sandy, are you challenging me?
Who's Meivici? I don't have one!
aw shucks, I sure do like bikes.

[Sandy]

From what I understand about your cycling skills, I don't think that I would challenge you with my BMW M3. Well, maybe I would.

Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

Brian- well said-

now- more pix

Jason

[Brian Smith]

Brian , I hear you pal and I am inline for a drink of the Kool Aid , I have peeked at the product and it looks GREAT . You all have done a great job at Serotta constantly re-inventing yourselves . What do you think the biggest challenge will be in steping into another medium and having to prove yourselves against Benchmarks in Carbon building ( Parlee and Calfee ) . I say foo-wey to those who thought an Ottrott was not a carbon bike , why did you not just build the lugs in Ti rather then carbon ? Would it have effected the ride one bit or was it to call the bike all Carbon more important ?

Thanks, Smiley pal.
real quick:
#1 - I was not involved with developing the Meivici, but the Ti-lugged bike is the Ottrot, and who knows where it will develop from where it now rests. CF is black gold and holds a lot of appeal, the thinking being that if a little CF and a little metal is great, then even more CF will be even better, in the minds, at least, of many shoppers, if not framebuilders too. Hey, the material has got some great mechanical properties; I think the idea is to take those as far as possible and damn everything else. As James chimed in with the early frame's mass, one can see that from the Ottrot, it surely gets you somewhere along the lightweight front. The tubes, unless I'm mistaken, are what we've already been tuning, ride-wise, and that makes sense. The thrust of the lug development was strength to weight and preservation of frame configuration customizability. Wait 'til you see how we'll be doing that and preserving proper fitup. (see above, re:craftsmanship) Let's say that it isn't cheap. OK, before I am shot for exceeding my authorized disclosure limit....

[csb]

Nobody complained like this when forks got all carbon went from $150 to $350 or more....

i love 'ya brian _ but _ let me tell you, all the critical mass rides here
in the big apple were in reality riders venting their frustration(s) over
the price of a good forking.