So what happens in 2 years?

[Matthew]

Wow, $8000 for a frame. I just wonder what happens in 2 or so years when this model is just not quite good enough and is no longer the "benchmark" for all other models. Is the next one $10000, $12000? Lord knows that in this crazy world of cycling that one has to always come up with lighter, better, stiffer, faster, smoother, and so on to stay competitive. I have a huge passion for this sport but things are getting out of control. $3000 more than the Ottrott? I just don't see how it can be worth it. The 51 miles I did on my bargain priced Concours today were pretty darn nice. I just wonder what Ben and the gang will do in the future to "improve" upon this new model, as with cycling a company always has to put out new products to compete.

[Smiley]

Thats Frame and Fork , not frame alone . And yes for those that want the latest and greatest they shall pay to stay ahead of the technology curve . Heck I still don't own a High Def TV yet . Just waiting for things to come down in price and they are . Sooner all things Carbon will come down with competition , Serotta is way ahead of the curve or maybe they have very loyal clients like you and me . I still want a DKS OTTROTT , maybe I can get a DKS in this new model , what do you think .

[Fixed]

it's the price you pay to have the latest and greatest.needed no wanted yes

[flydhest]

I think the worst part is how they're forcing people to buy them. Isn't that awful?

Oh, wait, we don't have to pay $8K for a frame if we don't want to.

Whew. Glad you enjoy your Concours . . . keep doing that. I'm digging the hell out of my used CSi that I got for a steal (pun intended). I don't plan on buying an $8K frame anytime soon because I'm happy with the bikes I gots. It is no nevermind to me how much Serotta charges for the new bike. I can't imagine why anyone could have a negative reaction. Just don't buy one.

[Smiley]

Your the smartest guy I know Fly , so I ignored the idiot comment thrown your way before . Your profound Guns and Butter theory proves to me yet again why i like you .

[Sandy]

I think that everyone who participates on this forum clearly understands their options relative to purchasing said bike. Some of us simply feel that, relative to what is presently available, a $8,000 carbon frameset (which undoubtedly will be a very superior one), is priced exceedingly high.

I also don't really care what Serotta prices their carbon frameset. I sincerely hope that they sell a very large number of them. I think, possibly unlike you, that an exceedingly low number of Serotta enthusiasts will spend that type of money on a frameset any time soon. Too much competition.


Sandy

[flydhest]

sandy,

fine, but so what? and why should so many people seemingly get their chamois in a bundle and say harsh things about the company that hosts this site. Things like "outrageous" and "ridiculous." There's complaining out there and it doesn't make any sense to me. Nobody's doing nothing to nobody no-how. A shrug of the shoulders seems like enough, no?

different topic: Smiley, if I run for office will you be my campaign manager???

[keno]

enough of this crap about who shot John. (BTW, I'm thinking about starting a build your own carbon frame scholarship program for the have not wants.) And speaking about people who would never buy such a thing, how many folks you know who were never going to get married and are pushing strollers?

Anyhow, how are you feeling? Last I remember, you are on the sidelines (of how many sports I know not). I miss you MD/DC guys and gals. keno ain't getting any younger, so some young studs like fly keep telling me, so I need a ride down south. Let me know when it's time to rev it up. I've been training hard with up to 6 SNs on some days.

keno

[Sandy]

You are totally correct in that "Nobody"s doing nothing to nobody, no-how." Serotta prces the bike. You buy it or you don't. Couldn't be much simpler than that.

But the words "outrageous", "ridiculous", and even "idiot" have different meanings to different people, especially when context is considered. There is also the emotional factor involved when communicating.

I found it sad that my tuna sandwich thread deteriorated into members calling each other idiots.

Serotta priced their bike as they seemed fit, period.

At his point, I am somewhat sorry that I even started the thread. Especially on Serotta's website.


Sandy

[Sandy]

What is a SN?

[Bill Bove]

Why is 8000.00 so outraguos for a frame? Looking around me right now I see 1200 Mavic wheelsets, 800.00 Campy carbon cranks, 600.00 Cinelli Ram handlebars, 225.00 fizik saddles and I'm selling them. Serotta is not a Chinese builder, making bikes for the masses to go from point A to point B on. Serotta builds an excellent bike for a discrimanting buyer, only the market can decide if the price is to high and my guess is it won't.

Is the Meiviechi going to be 3000.00 dollars better than the Otrott? Is Dom Perignon that much better than any other quality champagne?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . exactly where this $8k figure came from. I don't remember seeing it in the owner's club story that someone posted. Are we COMPLETELY sure it's gonna be $8k for frame and fork?

BBDave

[wheelworks]

. . . exactly where this $8k figure came from. I don't remember seeing it in the owner's club story that someone posted. Are we COMPLETELY sure it's gonna be $8k for frame and fork?

BBDave


Hey BBDave,
The frame and fork are $7995 for a limited edition!!!!!!

[Doc Austin]

Wow, $8000 for a frame. I just wonder what happens in 2 or so years when this model is just not quite good enough and is no longer the "benchmark" for all other models.

The CSI :banana: is no longer the benchmark, but plenty of guys won't give theirs up.

After being envolved in audio and computers I learned you can never have the latest, greatest and most up to date of anything. By the time they get whatever it is into production, the plans are being finalized for the next generation. Or, by the time you can get yours shipped out to you, the cataloug for the new one is being circulated. Someone, somewhere is always going to have something later, greater and cooler than what you have.... well, that is, unless maybe your name is "Ben"........ or something.

Mostly, though, Serotta stays in business by selling bicycles, except they build such good ones that once you have your grubbly little paws on one.........you really never need to spend another nickel with them. You sure aren't going to wear out the first one they sold you, so the only way to get you back is to build something better.........and that always seems to cost more.

What happens in two years? Well, there just has to eventually come a time when you are satisfied that what you have is enough, and I think between the CSI :banana: and the TI :banana: I'm already there. I will never need to buy another bicycle for the rest of my life..........but we all know how that works, don't we?

[bcm119]

What is a SN?

6 per day... I'm guessing Sierra Nevada.

[keno]

Sierra Nevada, which, BTW, I started drinking long before I knew the word "Serotta". Incidentally, I would never call you idiot, outrageous, or ridiculous. I might, however, after a few SNs call you a sturgeon.

keno

[Sandy]

For an old codger, you have a remarkable memory. :)

Sturgeon Surgeon Sandy

[keno]

excellent! My compliments to the smokehouse.

keno

[Sandy]

Whose? Yours or mine?


Smokey the Bear

[champlemon]

Serotta should consider opening a financing division a la GMAC... Serotta Financing Corporation. Offering 60 and 72 month financing as well as 24 and 36 month leases... Although with the way that modern bikes depreciate after you take them for a ride... This might be a case where the lease payment is more than the loan payment.

Also... Serotta Cyclist Insurance, offering Full Cover insurance... with $500 & $1000 deductibles for accidental damage and theft? Ouch! I know motorcycle insurance is not as expensive as car insurance, but still!

[dirtdigger88]

Also... Serotta Cyclist Insurance, offering Full Cover insurance... with $500 & $1000 deductibles for accidental damage!

have you seen the owner club?

Jason

[Ahneida Ride]

I think that everyone who participates on this forum clearly understands their options relative to purchasing said bike. Some of us simply feel that, relative to what is presently available, a $8,000 carbon frameset (which undoubtedly will be a very superior one), is priced exceedingly high.

I also don't really care what Serotta prices their carbon frameset. I sincerely hope that they sell a very large number of them. I think, possibly unlike you, that an exceedingly low number of Serotta enthusiasts will spend that type of money on a frameset any time soon. Too much competition.


Sandy


AMEN !

[ada@prorider.or]

well must be worth it for a frame and fork
if they use aerospace cerfied high modulus carbon with some cheaper boron meaby,
and made out of one piece

[Fixed]

Your the smartest guy I know Fly , so I ignored the idiot comment thrown your way before . Your profound Guns and Butter theory proves to me yet again why i like you .
you are a represenative for serotta?

[xlbs]

about all the fuss regarding an "expensive" frame and fork. Way back when 'cycling first became popular over a century ago a good basic bicycle cost about 6 month's wages for the average working chap: gazillions of bicycles were sold and ridden despite the price.

$8,000 is a lot less than 6 month's wages for the average worker today, factory folk or professionals or teachers... If you want the product, $8,000 is a bargain in real terms.

Jerk's right. The quality and technology we can buy today outstrips anything available from the past. No one has to buy this frame and fork...

dbrk loves the past, and he's entitled to enjoy those things. I happen to enjoy them very much too. Yet, I also appreciate the efforts that Ben and company are making to stay in business and to compete.

Why can't one appreciate both?!!

grumpy in Canada where we're not supposed to be grumpy.

[Too Tall]

XLBS - well said.

Keno that was a fishious thing to say about Sandy and I imagine he's about haddock with your making fin of him ;)

So Cees are you saying that an entirely carbon bike 9frame + fork) made of mostly high modulus carbon priced in the neighborhood of 8K is about right?

[JohnS]

about all the fuss regarding an "expensive" frame and fork. Way back when 'cycling first became popular over a century ago a good basic bicycle cost about 6 month's wages for the average working chap: gazillions of bicycles were sold and ridden despite the price.

$8,000 is a lot less than 6 month's wages for the average worker today, factory folk or professionals or teachers... If you want the product, $8,000 is a bargain in real terms.

Jerk's right. The quality and technology we can buy today outstrips anything available from the past. No one has to buy this frame and fork...

dbrk loves the past, and he's entitled to enjoy those things. I happen to enjoy them very much too. Yet, I also appreciate the efforts that Ben and company are making to stay in business and to compete.

Why can't one appreciate both?!!

grumpy in Canada where we're not supposed to be grumpy.
Back when bikes first became popular, they were TRANSPORTATION. Your only other choices were walking or maintaining a horse and buggy. They were a necessity then , they're a toy (you know what I mean) now.

[MartyE]

Did Sandy start the tuna thread just for the halibut?

Again, The $7995 is for the limited early edition, so
how much will the non limited edition be?
If it's $1000 or $1500 cheaper will that quell
the too expensive comments?

Marty

[JohnS]

Did Sandy start the tuna thread just for the halibut?

Again, The $7995 is for the limited early edition, so
how much will the non limited edition be?
If it's $1000 or $1500 cheaper will that quell
the too expensive comments?

Marty
Well, from the lack of responses to Smiley's thread, all the steel is real boys are saving their money for something else. :p

[ada@prorider.or]

XLBS - well said.

Keno that was a fishious thing to say about Sandy and I imagine he's about haddock with your making fin of him ;)

So Cees are you saying that an entirely carbon bike 9frame + fork) made of mostly high modulus carbon priced in the neighborhood of 8K is about right?

no only if its certified aerospace carbon and made out of one peice

if its has glue parts like glued in tubing its not worth it in my opion
like trek use glue tubing
giant conalgo pinarello scott specialized and so on

one piece is like walzer
but he use's cheaper carbon and low tech resin systems and no cerification what so ever
this way it is still affordeble

if its made as glued parts tubing theyt cannot make it out of high modulus certified aerospace carbon

i have a friend around my hous who make for the bike industry all around the world tubing for frame's
for the top brand 's and its always cheap carbon
remember a glued part is never as strong as a part out of one peice

[ergott]

remember a glued part is never as strong as a part out of one peice

How do you anchor the spokes to the rim and hub of your wheels? Is that not a form of glue?
I'm not questioning the strength of your wheels, but if the process is strong enough for this application, then why not frames? There is a larger contact area between lugs and tubes then spokes and rims. Plus this process allows the builder the customization of parts and geometry. Is this similar to the customization available in your wheels?

Why can't high modulus certified aerospace carbon be bonded/glued?

Sorry if that is a lot of questions, but who better to ask? I want to learn more about the properties of the carbon you talk about and how it differs form the more common carbon we see.

[ada@prorider.or]

How do you anchor the spokes to the rim and hub of your wheels? Is that not a form of glue?
I'm not questioning the strength of your wheels, but if the process is strong enough for this application, then why not frames? There is a larger contact area between lugs and tubes then spokes and rims. Plus this process allows the builder the customization of parts and geometry. Is this similar to the customization available in your wheels?

Why can't high modulus certified aerospace carbon be bonded/glued?

Sorry if that is a lot of questions, but who better to ask? I want to learn more about the properties of the carbon you talk about and how it differs form the more common carbon we see.

well i did not say that you could not bond or glued a high modulus fiber
only said that its better that the fiber are running true
rather the cut and glued so the strenght of a bonde part can never be higer then the resin system
as for the run true fiber its the strenght of fiber and this of course is much higher then the resin system

we have a special mechanic constuction to attach the spokes in our wheels its not depanding totaly on the glue part inother words the resin system
we are the only one (at least of i know ) that make the rim out of one peice all around
its hard to do but we succeed to do so

for properties of carbon search the internet there are lots of differance in carbon
http://www.hexcel.com/Products/Downloads/Carbon+Fiber+Data+Sheets.htm?ds=Continuous
http://www.soficar-carbon.com/uk/index.html
http://www.carbonfiber.gr.jp/english/
http://www.pslc.ws/macrog/carfib.htm
here a example

[xlbs]

used for pleasure far far more than for transportation. Do a bit of reading, if you can find the sources, about the social aspects of 'cycling and you'll find that most early bicycles had almost nothing to do with transport. Horses, buggies, wagons and other modes of human/animal transport were the norm.

Early bicycles were all about social prestige, new-found freedoms for women (ever hear of bloomers, and their early influence on the suffragette movement?) and fun for all sorts of people, primarily urbanites...

still grumpy in Canada...

carbon fibre is cool stuff when well designed, as in Cees's wheels and other nifty stuff...

[Ozz]

Well, from the lack of responses to Smiley's thread, all the steel is real boys are saving their money for something else. :p
Two words: Private Messages

Who would want to hang their conspicuous consumption out in the open for all to criticize?

I've been thinking that maybe $8000 racing bike frames/forks is just what cycling needs. There is pretty much a concensus that most folks should not be riding "racing" style frames. If they get priced out of reach for most folks, they might turn to bikes more in the style of that lovely CF Tournesol dbrk posted in the custom gallery...still pricey, but not near $8K...well, maybe "all in" after hanging all the bling-bling on it.

Pricey gas, get people on more appropriate (comfortable) bikes...new golden age of cycling...wishful thinking I suppose!