S&S Couplers - lubrication ?

[AngryScientist]

S&S goes through some serious pains to prove the point that the grease they recommend is the only grease to use:

http://www.sandsmachine.com/grease_t.htm

I do appreciate their thorough testing, but what's the real life scoop on these things? i know there are a bunch of coupled bikes floating around this forum, are those of you with couplers using the recommended finish line stuff religiously? i know stainless galling is a potentially very serious problem, but I also think for the relatively low demand environment of S&S couplers, most extreme pressure greases will probably be fine, especially when travelling far and wide with this stuff not being widely available at all.

what say you?

[tylerbick]

I work at a shop where we have sold dozens of Co-Motion (co-pilot) tandems and singles that use the S&S couplers over the last half-dozen years. We like to experiment with lots of stuff, but have never had any reason to use anything other than the DuPont Teflon grease that Co-Motion still sends with each coupled bike. At some point I am sure they will run out of their old stock, at which point we will start using the new Finish Line branded DuPont Extreme Fluoro grease.

With a part that is so precisely manufactured, and such an investment, why take any (even the smallest) risk?

[Bob Ross]

why take any (even the smallest) risk?

Yeah, this is one of those areas where I'm perfectly happy to take their word for it and not do my own testing. I'm still using the tube of Finish Line fluoro-stuff that came with my S&S coupled bike 14 months ago, but when I run low I'll just buy more.

There is, after all, really only one way to discover empirically that their recommendation was correct...and I have no interest in going through that process! :)

[rice rocket]

Wow, looks like they put a lot of effort into that study.

They did skip over the most obvious choices of anti-seize from Loctite and Permatex though, not sure why... I trust almost anything Loctite as a general statement. I slather Loctite anti-seize (forget which model #) on just about every bolt that needs disassembly on my car, and I'm able to reuse bolts even when they tell me not to. ;)

[Bradford]

I stocked up on the Teflon grease, so it is all I've ever used. That's what they told me to use, that is what I use.

Why would you even think about using anything other than what they have recommended? Seriously, what would drive you to spend any time trying come up with an alternative? You don't use it enough for it to be a financial issue and you don't go through enough of it to be a convenience thing.

They stuff they recommend works just fine. Buy a few tubes, use what they say, and stop worrying about it.

[AngryScientist]

That's what they told me to use, that is what I use.



I'm not the type of guy who does things just because "that's what they told me"...

S&S couplers are a relatively low demand stainless-on-stainless application, there are numerous other solutions out there that deal with the same issues. I've done quite a bit of work in materials engineering, and I'm well aware of the issues at hand.

that said, i probably will just use the recommended lube, but i was just curious what other folks are using, in case i'm in a pinch, away from home needing to substitute something readily available

[Dekonick]

I'm not the type of guy who does things just because "that's what they told me"...

S&S couplers are a relatively low demand stainless-on-stainless application, there are numerous other solutions out there that deal with the same issues. I've done quite a bit of work in materials engineering, and I'm well aware of the issues at hand.

that said, i probably will just use the recommended lube, but i was just curious what other folks are using, in case i'm in a pinch, away from home needing to substitute something readily available

I am sure you can substitute any grease in a pinch. I just would not leave it coupled any longer than necessary. I agree with you that it is not always wise to accept the status quo - often there is a better solution. In this case, I must admit they have a good body of research to back up their claim thus it is what I will use. :)

[AngryScientist]

Wow, looks like they put a lot of effort into that study.

They did skip over the most obvious choices of anti-seize from Loctite and Permatex though, not sure why...

I agree, and the nickel version of any of the good brands of anti-seize are the obvious choices for stainless-on-stainless application. i've been talking with the gentleman at S&S, and I may do some testing of my own and collaborate on the results.

[bicycletricycle]

i use whatever grease i have around and it works fine, ran out of the teflon stuff years ago.

[Cinci Jim]

What about the Ti couplers? Anything different there?

I agree, and the nickel version of any of the good brands of anti-seize are the obvious choices for stainless-on-stainless application. i've been talking with the gentleman at S&S, and I may do some testing of my own and collaborate on the results.

[zap]

Use the extreme fluoro grease S&S recommends. I compared it to Phil Wood grease and Finish Line teflon grease I had on hand and it's no contest, the fluoro is that good.

Regular PW and teflon grease works but I found (on our tandem with 6 couplers) they require follow up tightening after 1 and 2 rides and were finally tight after 3rd ride. The couplers lubed with fluoro were tight right away.

[Bob Ross]

Regular PW and teflon grease works but I found (on our tandem with 6 couplers) they require follow up tightening after 1 and 2 rides and were finally tight after 3rd ride. The couplers lubed with fluoro were tight right away.

I use the fluoro exclusively and I still occasionaly find a coupler will come loose from JRA. Don't think it's necessarily related to the lube.

[zap]

One needs to put quite a bit of force on that short s&s wrench so it's no surprise if couplers need to be tighten after a ride or two even if one uses fluoro.

But after that couplers should not come loose.

[khjr]

Krytox is available through McMaster, btw

[mvrider]

So is this a sensitivity that the Ritchey Breakaway system doesn't have, then? Has anyone compared the two systems? Folks I've run across who ride the Ritchey frames have been very complimentary.

[eddief]

but it would be a giant bummer to not be able to undo my couplers at the end of a trip. and i don't have the means to test a bunch of other options. bought some finish line today. this is mostly about enabling the parts to move and not about keeping them from unloosening while the bike is coupled. right?

[11.4]

A couple points:

1. The little hook wrench that comes with the S&S couplers is nice, but a pair of VAR lockring pliers is much nicer for the couplers. You'll never mar the couplers with a slipped wrench, and it lets you control tightness very precisely. Take the hook wrench with you for multi-day trips on a coupled bike, but keep the VAR pliers with the travel case. It's a godsend.

2. The lubricant has to do several things on a coupled bike, especially on a Ti one. It needs to prevent galling and other welding phenomena. It has to stay clean so the threads don't contaminate and then wear or jam. It has to give a reproducible torque setting, and it has to allow you to tighten easily.

I'd never use antiseize because it can make torque settings very unpredictable. And it's also a mess. I do as many have on this post, and use the lubricant that S&S supplies. It simply works. You don't need much.

If you're ordering a bike, consider having a set of coupler caps made at the same time. Basically it's a mate for each of the coupler ends, with the end covered by a very short piece of frame tubing and a piece of metal as a plug in the end. This way, there's a matching cap to each of the four ends you have on a standard coupled frame. These keep the threads from ever getting dinged, allow you to keep lubricant on your threads without messing up your travel case, and just look classy.

[rugbysecondrow]

So is this a sensitivity that the Ritchey Breakaway system doesn't have, then? Has anyone compared the two systems? Folks I've run across who ride the Ritchey frames have been very complimentary.


I have used both and the SandS is superior. I think this discussion can easily be distorted to made a much bigger deal than it is. KISS seems to apply here.

Paul

[eddief]

i was under the impression that the "little" wrench was a purpose built tool that, due to the shortness, would not allow more torque than necessary and would not allow the end user to overtighten.

[QUOTE=11.4]A couple points:

1. The little hook wrench that comes with the S&S couplers is nice, but a pair of VAR lockring pliers is much nicer for the couplers. You'll never mar the couplers with a slipped wrench, and it lets you control tightness very precisely. Take the hook wrench with you for multi-day trips on a coupled bike, but keep the VAR pliers with the travel case. It's a godsend.

[zap]

edit

A couple points:

1. The little hook wrench that comes with the S&S couplers is nice, but a pair of VAR lockring pliers is much nicer for the couplers. You'll never mar the couplers with a slipped wrench, and it lets you control tightness very precisely. Take the hook wrench with you for multi-day trips on a coupled bike, but keep the VAR pliers with the travel case. It's a godsend.


If you're ordering a bike, consider having a set of coupler caps made at the same time. Basically it's a mate for each of the coupler ends, with the end covered by a very short piece of frame tubing and a piece of metal as a plug in the end. This way, there's a matching cap to each of the four ends you have on a standard coupled frame. These keep the threads from ever getting dinged, allow you to keep lubricant on your threads without messing up your travel case, and just look classy.


thanks for the tips, especially end caps. I'll have to come up with something for our tandem-different size couplers.