Rivendell sizing, fit or fiction

[sam.g]

I've been salivating over a Rivendell touring frame listed on e-bay but am totally confused over Grant's perspective on proper sizing which would place me on a much larger frame than I'm currently riding. Having been professionally fit by well respected Serotta dealer, I'm totally comfortable (except for saddles, still a work in process) on two Serotta frames. However the Rivendell size table would place me on a significantly larger frame with a top tube 3 to 4 cm beyond what I deem comfortable. While accepting that a higher top tube with a fist-full-of-seat tube, taller stem and steeper seat tube angle will diminish the reach, I still have touble accepting that this would produce a comfortable fit. Does anyone have any direct experience or comparisons of a Serotta vs. a Rivendell fit?

Sam

[dbrk]

There is more than one way to fit a bike properly because there are different kinds of bikes and different sorts of riding. You _will_ fit on the Rivendell using Grant's formula and you need not jack up the stem (I don't). You will, however, sit differently on the frame even if you measure into the same points of contact.

Ask yourself if you want a different kind of bicycle and riding style in addition to what you like on your Serotta. You can size a Rivendell "down" to a fit more commensurate with your fitter's idea but you are not then taking advantage of the differences. A Rivendell fit is more relaxed, yes, and is less stressful on the body but less suited for aerodynamic "racing". I think that is fair to say though it's not as big a difference as many point out. Grant's fit pictures etc. are a bit exaggerated since most Riv riders don't actually have stems as high with relation to the saddle but many, many ride his size recommendation or just a hair below it.

People like what they are used to (which is not the same as saying one is better than the other) but I would recommend that you think of these as different bicycles, styles, and fits. I am perfectly used to riding in more than one fit and the only really silly idea about fit I hear touted is that there is "one perfect fit." That's nonsense or worse or at best benign ignorance about how many different ways there are to ride a bicycle.

dbrk

[eddief]

would be interested to know what about a Riv is attractive to you? If you are interested in a Riv touring frame, then one might think you'd be interested in touring or riding a bike with all day comfort in mind. For many people more upright riding position equals a more comfortable all day riding machine.

What you don't mention are the dimensions of the bike that you are used to. I would guess that for some an off the rack, non-custom might never fit correctly; even given time to get used to it. For most, off the rack can be made to work without too much weirdness.

My experience has been if I can get the contact point dimensions to measure the same on different bikes without going too long or too high on the stem and turning it into a circus bike, then I can get used 1-3 cm tube length and 1-3 degree angle differences.

I rode this weekend with a woman on a new Riv Saluki. She lives in the land of Riv and said she was glad she went one size below what Grant had suggested. Believe me, she was still riding a big bike...a red beauty.

[dirtdigger88]

my personal thoughts only

I think that the Rivendell sizing would give me a bigger bike than I want- I believe that according to their charts I would be ridding a 65- 67 cm rig- I am sure I could ride a bike that size- I just dont want a bike that large- I enjoy reading "The Reader" and I think that for some Grants ideas are spot on- Personally- I just wouldnt want a bike that large-

I have been moving my bars up and up over time- My Lemond has a 10cm drop- my Legend had a 7cm- my Kirk will have a 5cm drop- My position doesn't really change from one bike to another- my hands just come up- but my torso is basicly at the same position-

I dont think anyone can say Serotta fit is "right" and the Rivendell is "wrong" or the other way around- it just depends on what you want your bike to do- A Saluki with a 10 cm drop wouldn't do a Saluki justice- it is not how that bike is intended to be- just the same as so many Ottrotts you see out there with the bars the same height as the saddle- again- its just not how the bike was ment to be ridden-

Ask yourself "What are you looking for in a bike?" then the proper fit method will be more clear to you

Jason

[csb]

http://web2.uqat.ca/scenario/buster_keaton.JPG

[dirtdigger88]

for those who are lost on what the Rivendell fit is

read for yourself

http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_pureopinions.html

Jason

[Marron]

I had the same reaction when buying my Rambouillet and ended up going with my gut rather than Grant's. I ended up happy that I did becasue the Ram is really more of a hybrid frame that can go either way; performance riding or all-rounder (it's sire). If you mount 23cm tires it feels just like a 70's or 80's vintage race bike. Put on 32's and your into the Rivendell mode.

Two friends who also got Rams at about the same time wish they had gone for the smaller frame. They're not at the full-on regrets stage, but they both recognize that the next size down would have better suited thier needs. I would try to find one to at least straddle before deciding, particularly if you're making the investment in money and time to get a custom. Think of all the wondering you'll be doing while you're waiting.

[eddief]

I am just curious. Your two friends who regret buying the larger frame; what about the bigness don't they like?

Can they stand over them without their "you know whats" touching the top tube?

If it is not uncomfortable to stand over, then what would be unsatisfying about the bigger size?

Just curious.

[Marron]

In the one case, the resulting reach necessitated a short stem for the frame size. Something like a 110 for a 62cm frame. We even did a bike swap for week to give Brian a chance to try my smaller frame as we are both the same height and approximate PB height. He liked the feel of my frame a bit better but remains happy overall with his Rambouillet.

In the other case, it was a result of the compact design of the Rambouillet. There was plenty of standover, but the front end just felt "jacked up" (his direct quote). I've ridden with him a number of times and the bike looks like it fits to me, but it is different from a regular road fit. I think this is more to do with the fact that the sloping top tube on the Ram slopes more than some people are expecting from the photos. In the flesh it is clearly a compact frame design.

[palincss]

In the one case, the resulting reach necessitated a short stem for the frame size. Something like a 110 for a 62cm frame. We even did a bike swap for week to give Brian a chance to try my smaller frame as we are both the same height and approximate PB height. He liked the feel of my frame a bit better but remains happy overall with his Rambouillet.

In the other case, it was a result of the compact design of the Rambouillet. There was plenty of standover, but the front end just felt "jacked up" (his direct quote). I've ridden with him a number of times and the bike looks like it fits to me, but it is different from a regular road fit. I think this is more to do with the fact that the sloping top tube on the Ram slopes more than some people are expecting from the photos. In the flesh it is clearly a compact frame design.

I've had one since 2002, and I find your comment incomprehensible. The top tube rise on a Rambouillet is virtually invisible - the only way you can really see it if you don't have a pump installed is to park the bike against a brick or cinderblock wall that has a horizontal line established.

[Ken Robb]

I have 58cm CSI with 90 degree 10cm stem(looking for a 12cm) I bought it for my wife but after I got her a Riv Romulus she won't ride the CSi. It is as small a frame as I want to ride.:, 60cm Legend W/12cm stem is as big a Serotta as I would want to ride.

I have 62cm Rambouillet which fits great /10cm stem.
63cm Riv Allrounder w/9cm stem fits great but almost zero standover w/700x32 tires. Since I don't have to stand with the bike perfectly verticle standover is a moot issue w/me. BTW, the Allrounder is progenitor for the Atlantis frame not the Rambouillet.

I am 6'1 with 90cm PBH, saddle height 78-79cm and I like my bars about even with my saddle.

One reason for the Riv size recommendations seeming big is they all have pretty low bottom brackets (77-80 mm drop) so you can straddle a bigger frame than one with a 67mm drop. I think if you want to try a Rivendell bike you should get the size Grant recommends to experience the performance he designs to achieve, otherwise you'll have another bike that's no more comfy than your racy bikes and yet won't be all that great a racy bike either.

[tch]

I own a Concours custom 54 st/ 52.5 tt and a stock 56 Ramboulliet. I ride a 110mm -6degree stem on the Serotta and a 90mm -17 degree stem on the Rambo. Bar drop is about 4cm on the Serotta; dead even with the seat on the Rambo. Despite the fact that my three contacts are very close in terms of measurements, the bikes feel different. The Rambo feels bigger and relaxed in a very good way; I could just get on it and ride for a long time. The Serotta feels much smaller, tighter, and "racier". I LIKE having different feels for my two bikes: though they both "fit", they feel like different experiences. I like both of them and I ride both of them at different times. BTW, I do not "touch" the top tube when I stand.

FWIW, a standard "shop" fit would put me on a 54cm bike; I almost exactly fit the Rivendell suggestions for a 56. Except for the shorter stem, I "sized up" according to Rivendell and I've been happy.

If you want a racer, then maybe you should size down from Riv's suggestions. But then if you want a racer, why are you buying a Rivendell?

[RABikes2]

.02 note:

My neighbors bought 2 touring Rivendell's and absolutely love 'em. (They rode them on the recent RAGBRAI.) Their "other" bikes are custom Zinn's.

RA

[sam.g]

For some time now I've been interested in putting together a full-on touring bike with capabilities for fenders, panniers and proper gearing for unsupported touring.

As to the question regarding my current bikes and size. These include a CSi used mainly for city rides, occasional commutes to work in nice weather and fast weekend group rides, and an Hors Cat which is my century and supported touring bike. The CSi's geometry is 56x55 with a -17 degree 10 cm stem spot on with my Serotta fit, while the Hors Cat has stock 55 cm square geometry with a 90 degree 11 cm stem. Both bikes position the seat about 1cm above the bars which I find comfortable even on long rides. (Last week I rode the Hors 10 days straight covering 720 miles on Cycle America's Coastline Redwoods/Crater Lake tour, no issues.) My PB height is ~85 and both saddles are at ~74.5, at only 5'8" I've got relatively long legs and a short torso.

The e-bay Rivendell in question is a 55cm frame with a 58cm c-c top tube which according to Grant's methodology is 4 or 5 sizes too small for my 5'8" frame. A small difference can and should be expected given Rivendell's relaxed geometry and ride quality, but this seems excessive. Your thought's?

Sam

[Ray]

It comes down to how you sit on a bike and how you ride. I have three Rivs that range between 58 and 60 cm (the 59cm is for sale in the classified section). I have a LOT of setback and only an inch or inch and a half of saddle to bar drop. When I went to Tom Kellog for a custom Spectrum, he sized me up and put me on what is effectively a 61cm frame, but in compact form. He knew I wasn't a racer and he knew my phsical limitations and he fit me very much like Grant Peterson has. Tom recommended a slightly more aggressive position on the bike than I was used to, but the size and dimensions of the frame aren't all that different. No reason a Serotta couldn't be fit the same way.

If you like small frames, great. But the "large" frame fit isn't limited to Rivendell.

-Ray

[Ken Robb]

uh oh! the dimensions you give for the Riv for sale are very un-Rivendell as far as current production bikes go. It sounds like it was CUSTOM for the original owner and it may not be good for you. You might be better served by a stock Atlantis for unsupported touring.

[sam.g]

Here's the address for the Rivendell which caught my interest. Custom geometry may be the explaination.

Sam

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7176553367&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[dbrk]

So it's for a person who fits a 55cm on Rivendell's sizing charts but needs a long top tube. Otherwise the numbers are not that unusual for a Rivendell: the long rear end allows fat tires and plenty of clearance, what with the cantilever brakes. If you are modest in height but long in the torso, this would be a GREAT bike! Given that it was built by Curt Goodrich, well, that would be one of the truly masterful builders of our time, as good as it gets.

dbrk

[eddief]

thanks for providing more detail. The bike you are considering is fairly obviously a custom and the dimensions appear to go in the opposite direction of your sweet spot for fit. This bike is only bigger in the sense that it is long in the top tube. With all those legs and a short torso one might expect you to need something longer in the seat tube and shorter in the top. You could probably get it to fit but how will it feel with a 7 or 8 cm extened stem and how will it feel in the ride? And more impt to vacuous people like me, how the heck will it look?